What is best avi codec for archiving [b]and [/b]editing?

[regular8mm]

I used to have a DC30 card and no one else could play the files, later, neither could I, so I got Morgan. That worked.
Then, I got a ATI card and now no one can play the ATI-VCR1 files I've been archiving in.
Question. What codec should be used to archive captured video on CDs, from which the video will be edited by anyone?
If another editor does not have an ATI card what codec would they most likely be able to use?

Cinepac? IndeoVideo? Morgan? Div-x? Huffy? I don't know how to use Huffy, but it says it is a lossless codec and I havn't been able to edit it.

[Cornucopia]

You can read this in a previous post of mine, but to sum up:

If you're going to be archiving and editing, you should avoid "LOSS" in the codecs--the lossier, the worse to use. Also, you want something flexible enough so you can edit anywhere on any frame--so avoid IBP GOP formats.

My quick informal order (from most desirable to least, ignoring size):

1. Uncompressed RGB
2. Uncomprssed YUV
3. Losslessly compressed (like HuffYUV, RLE)
4. Sliding-scale Q-table MJPEG (like AVID, Media100?)
5. DV formats (DV, DVCAM, DVCPRO)
6. Fixed-scale Q-table MJPEG (like DC30, ATI-VCR)
7. Photo-JPEG
8. Very high bitrate I-frame only MPEG2 or MPEG4
9. All the rest...

Don't-please-don't save as Cinepak or Indeo or any of the specialty "web-streaming" codecs.

I would guess that Morgan and PICvideo are #6, but they could be #4...

Your choice will be partly determined by size requirements.

Many people on these forums haven't had a problem with editing HuffYUV, so you may need to revisit how you're setup and procedures are.

HTH,
Scott

[dcsos]

Practically speaking, unless you need uncompressed output
DV seems like the best choice...
Its a good compromise between file size (you can get 20 minutes on a DVD) and quality
If you have to go uncompressed, you' ll find you might only get 5 mins on a DVD burn

I have a lot of archived TARGA MJPEG files which are getting harder to find around, but at least TARGA provided a CODEC so Quicktime can now transcode thes files without the TARGA hardware installed

[regular8mm]

35 pages of your posts later I still have to ask you
how big? That is, how much will fit on a CD or DVD disk?
Uncompressed anything would need to be put onto a DVD disk I imagine.
I am transferring 8mm film to video in analog format and want to edit it later or share it with others to edit on their computers.
Will they have trouble using it in those formats?
Using ATI-VCR1, I get one 50 foot reel onto one CD. The decompressor is available on line from a simple search and I downloaded a copy. Anything less or not compressed will be very expensive to use for that purpose.
Thanks for the list. I'll do some tests.
Michael Carter

[Ejoc]

I use Huffyuv, good estimate is 10minutes = 1GB, corse thats at 320x240
If you leave it uncompressed, its ALOT bigger.

[Cornucopia]

regular8mm,

IF my math doesn't fail me,

Uncompressed RGB= ~27MB/frame=2.514Min/4.37GB DVDR

YUV= 2/3 size of RGB

Lossless (varies) = ~4/10 x size of RGB or YUV (depending on which colorspace you use)

MJPEG= ~1/2...1/8 size of uncompressed (1 or 2), depending on which compression setting you use.

DV=~1/5 size of YUV (fixed), DVCPRO50 =1/3 size of YUV

MPEG I frame = ~1/6...1/20 size of YUV depending on bitrate chosen. (The real savings with MPEG comes into play when you resort to P & B frames).

You will of course save more if you don't save 30fps, but instead go to 24fps, 20, 15, 10, etc.
Likewise, you will save space if your frame size is 2/3 D1, 1/2 D1, or 1/4 D1, unless your codec just allocates size by bitrate (such as MPEG), or unless you're stuck with fixed rates (DV).

Sorry, I know some of my posts are longwinded...

HTH,
Scott

[spectroelectro]

HUffyUV is probably the absolute best combo of high quality and small space. However, Huffyuv will run you about 30 gigabytes per hour. DV Type 1 or Type 2 runs about 13 gigs per hour and uses 5:1 compression, meaning 80% of hte information has been thrown out.
You are not going to be able to store either of these AVI formats on something as small as DVD. I wouldn't even try.
Instead, you must use either DLT (digital linear tape -- very expensive) or feed the DV into a camcorder and store it on DV or Digital 8 tape. I've found DIgital 8 tape a very inexpensive way of arching DV format material. 13 gigs of storage at 5:1 compression for about $3. That's much more cost effective than DLT.
It puzzles me when you say you can't edit Huffyuv files. Have you tried importing 'em into Adobe Premiere? As long as you have enough hard sik space, you can edit Huffyuv files to your heart's content.
Alternatively, you can do CUT and MERGE edits with TMPGEnc on Huffyuv files.
The same of course applies to DV files.
DV format is probably the most commonly used for video editing nowadays at the amateur (home digital video) level. At the pro level, D1 is probably the most commonly used pro format, but there we're talking about roughly 60 gigabytes per hour. Your only choice for storage in that case will be DLT.

[regular8mm]

Premiere 5.1 likes Huffyuv, it will edit Huffyuv files but won't export it again. When I export a Huffyuv file, and choose Huffyuv as the compressor all I get is snow. The compressor must be changed to some other codec for an edited version.

My ATI capture card, running multimedia 6.3, captures in YUY2 Packed Data, and uses No Recompression or full Frames (Uncompressed) for compression - either one makes identical files, in Large 640 x 480. The video camera is a Hi-8mm exr NTSC. It is used to capture single frames from 8mm film through a WorkPrinter telecini projector. YUY2 files are loaded into Premiere 5.1, trimmed and whatever, then exported as a Huffyuv 2.1.1. The files play on my PC and other users - Pal - have reported being able to view them if they have the code installed. Two 700 MB CDs are needed for one 50 foot roll of film. Phew.


What I want to do is store my captures on CD disks, later DVD disks, and be able to edit from them at any time after my capture card has been changed to another or have other people able to use the captures on different PC systems. Huffy seems to fit the bill.

[Dilbert135]

This interests me a lot, and to think I just stumbled across it. I've got a Sony Digital Handycam, model# DCR-TRV320 and back when I first started editing movies and storing them, I would put them on the High 8 tapes that could be recorded back on the camera via firewire. Is this the same thing that you're talking about? If I record my archives back onto these tapes, are they retained at such a quality where it would be suitable for editing later? If so, that interests me a hellva lot and could potentially save me a few hundred dollars in the next few monthes.

[Dilbert135]

Also, can someone point me to a guide (if this is too newbie-ish, no need to bash, just tell me to find it on my own) where I can see how to convert my movies from .avi etc.. to dv?

[Applogies for the double post]

[regular8mm]

Your digital 8 camera changes avi to dv for you. One of those for Pal and one for NTSC would be nice to have but a tad expensive. I havn't been able to choose but need miniDV myself. Tape dropout may mess up an archived copy on tape. Best to make a couple copies. I think I'll get a DVD burner first.