A few days ago I bought the Panasonic E50. I decided on this one since I didn't really feel the need for the E80 with the hard drive (I don't plan on recording off cable). I'm really impressed with the record quality going from a VHS tape to a DVD-R. An hour after I paid cash for the recorder I went into a local casino and won $600 so I got all my money back and my recorder was free.
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I have the Panasonic/Mtsushita DMR-HS2 and can safley say I think it's the best Set-top recorder of any kind I've ever put my money down on -- and for $850 it had better be.
The Sharp unit sounds good (probably coming off the same assembly line as the Pana) but I haven't seen them around here before and I had heard amazing things about the HS2 Pana unit. The only gripe I have with my HS2 is the DVD-RAM format, yes I can take the Disc out of the cartridge and yes, I can stick it in my PC but to do this I need a DVD-ROM Drive that reads DVD-RAM (I have a Toshiba that's supposed to do this but I haven't tried it yet) and even though I can read it wth the Toshiba OEM Drive I got, It's not as easy as copying, say a DVD-RW but the DVD-RAM is a bit more durable and is mostly for buisnesses so I'm ok with the Price but I wish Panasonic would do a recorder that DVD-R, DVD-RW AND DVD-RAM so I wouldn't have to keep buying DVD-RAM Discs for editing and then putting my finished stuff onto DVD-R, if I had DVD-RW it'd also eb easier to buy what I need when I need it, too bad, but at least I can use the DVD-RAM in my PC.
I'm curious about the Sony unit, I thought it only Did DVD+R, DvD-RW and DVD+RW not DVD-R and it had a few record modes and extra bells and whistles, but if it's goodenough and if Sony is the first to do a machine that records ALL FIVE FORMATS, I'd get a Sony and use that to go with my other Sony stuff, but between the Pana and the other unti I was considering a Phillips the Pana wins hands down. I have gotten junkheap after junkheap from Phillips and I will never buy from them willingly again, the CD Writer in my Gateway and the CD-RW Drive in my G4 Tower were the last straw, those two PC's are six years apart and both CD Burners suck, the DVD Writer from Phillips was equally unimp[ressive bvroken in the local Circuit City perhaps as a good omen to avoid it.
I will say this openly, I have problems iwth the "P" Companies, Panasonic and Pioneer, both have caused extreme problems for me as PC Writers and Pioneer has ahd problems with Audio equipment I have so I won't evenr isk my video with them anymore. Note that Pioneere has BanDai Distribute Anime DVD's that I buy, the Pioneer unit has PROBLEMS playing them in the PC, the Panasonic and Sony units I have play them just fine! that tells you there's a problem and it ain't the Discs, I'm sticking with Panasonic and Sony, if Sony or Pana makes a unit that also records DVD-Audio I'll be happy because I can FINALLY play DVD-A in it's full glory with a decent system, I'm not buying a lower-quality DVD Player jus to play DVD-A but the PC I'm building will play it and hopefully, record it as well, I just wish it was easier to buy DVD-A with 5.1 Encoding so I could play DVD-A's in my current PC and HS2 even at a lower quality, I prefer them to CD and only have a limited selection r8ght nw although I have a ton of legit CD's I want to put on DVD-A the day DVD-A Recorders and DVD-Video Recorders are in the same unit, but for now the Panasonic DMR-HS2 is good.
Phillips also makes several dvd recorders, no mention of those.
Panasonic E30s (Some best buy stores have them clearing at $250 or so), have three a/v s-video inputs & 3 a/v s-video outputs plus RF & it does progressive scan. The newer E50+s don't have as many input/outputs & fewer buttons on the front of the machine, so they are more dependent on the remote control. Having all those input/outputs is great.
BTW, i noticed when I copied a commerical dvd from my E30 to vhs there was NO macrovision...weird.
Thanks for the explanation. So the TimeSlip feature can only be achieved if recording is done in VR mode, correct? Would it be possible to do TimeSlip in video mode ever?
Timeslip, as seen from the Japanese models, does not work well from such disks with frequent pauses, loss of recordings and other such misshaps! There is also the issue that you cannot use the Timeslip feature in the HQ mode. Personally I am of the opinion that Timeslip is a bit of a gimmick if you want that your going to buy a HDD not a DVD recorder!
The new Pioneer models are trying to be too much to too many people. Your much better off using DVD+RW - it's certainly much cheaper than anything from Pioneer! IMHO the Pioneer models are over-complicated, i.e. it's trying to emulate the core benefits of DVD+RW and those of DVD-RAM without much success at either.
I would also question what you say about DVD+RW not being able to do Timeslip. If it recording the DVD file structure in DVD Video format then surely it can go back and read the already 'burned' VOB files?!?!?
So where has this information come from
Let me put this to you, if it was possible why hasnít Philips done it to compete against DVD-RAM
DVD+RW was designed to rectify the design flaws in DVD-RW -thats why it exists! Pioneer have tried to bolt too much onto a format that simply can't support it. The machines are way too complicated: do you record in VR or Video? can you use timeslip (depends on recording mode)? which recording mode do you use? The process is more like a religion than a simple recording! Thus it will NEVER take off!
You talk of other companies dumbing down plus machines but you will always get that - not everyone wants all the editting features that exist on the Philips plus machines. If you want a dumbed down machine your still better getting plus rather than minus! And what about dumbed down DVD-RW such as on all machine bar Pioneer - how many others have Timeslip? None - not Sony not anyone!
I take it your in the US Phil? If you were in Europe you'd know that plus will become the defacto format (here)!
Originally Posted by mrlar
Originally Posted by ejai
But the laser disc's i have done with TMPGEnc DVD Author, look and sound great!!!!!! full motion menus, full motion menu backgrounds with audio, chapters, ac3, ect.
Download the new version of TMPG Author -it has a menu wizard/edit facility. You can now move buttons, resize them, change button styles, delete buttons, change text on them and all that. Makes the program 100 times better!
DANG!!!!! they must have just released it!!!! i hope it allows you to update from 18.104.22.168, i just checked the other day, heck i've only had the last version for about 1 week!!! already made a bunch of dvd's...... gonna have to redo a few i guess
what a great little thread!!!
one machine of interest that comes out in the UK is a Bush sold through Agros which is both - & + as adveetised in their home shopping catalogue
its cost is £299 and is on sale from monday
i think im gonna go for it and will post any findings here
from the catalogue
if its not, argos will get my returned
Why do people so easily believe marketing rubbish that is put in front of them?
you can record using +VR to DVD-RW no differently than it works with +RW
Yes, I to just cheked for any updates/upgrades for Tmpgenc DVD Author about 2-3 days ago. Must have posted this about 10 minutes after I was there
Aug/28/2003 Update: TMPGEnc DVD Author 1.5, new and improved to boost your creativity. Includes now a menu theme editor.
Wonder how long till they also add capture? Fast updating on this one!
I'm considering a standalone recorder for making a master disk!
In reading this thread, I got alot of question I'll have to study up on abut a couple are.
Firewire? Saw it mentioned, Can I go direct from the DV camcorder to a completed DVD in real time and DVD quality? Mostly I will have 1hr tapes, but need 2hrs (2tapes) on DVD ( maybe more at times). will the standalones do that?
I want to also backup my VHS, Are any standalones ignoring the tape protections, or hackable to do so? As everyone knows, tapes rot and most aren't buyable on DVD!
Hard drives? Units with hard drives, are they standard drives that can be replaced? Ie, take out a "IBM" 40gig and put in a Maxtor 120gig (or what ever) without problems?
I just tell it as it is
Phil, have a good read through this independant website. Then you'll realise that you have been supporting the wrong team:
I won't quote the whole article but you'll notice comments like "As with formatting, DVD+RW standard enables background verifications, i.e. the disc is checked for defects when the drive is idle" which clearly show that the plus format has much better defect management than the minus format be it RW, R or RAM!
Oh and I did chuckle at your comments about how you can (just about) match the functionality of plus by using a PC! What next -a requirement to have the TV studio next door!
If you read the conclusion of the article I quoted your notice there is no vagueness, no uncertainty -he clearly states plus is better:
"During my study of rewritable DVD formats it seemed very clear to me that DVD-R(W) standard was not as well designed as DVD+R(W)...And although some serious efforts have been put in the latest revisions of the - format to fix some of the original problems (at the cost of a much increased complexity), it still remains technically inferior to +, due to some intrinsic weaknesses (e.g. pre-pits). This is not very surprising, as Sony and Philips have a much longer experience at defining standards than Pioneer (and several key patents), and they also had the advantage to publish their standards after their competitors."
To be honest what Microsoft think of each format is irrelevant -they are only interested in data not video! And anyway they are an original supporter of plus -because they know minus has no future.
You can bring up technical facts if you like but let me hit you with the reality:
1: DVD-RW is supported by Pioneer who have bolted so much onto the technology that it is unstable, way too complicated and too expensive. The DVDR75 is equally in almost all ways to the new Pioneer 3100 but is almost £150 cheaper!?!
2: DVD-RW is supported by Sony who have so little faith in it that they have added plus to make it a viable unit.
3: Once Pioneer have released their two machines, and add on the Sony that is the total minus support that exists in the UK. On the other hand Philips, Sony, Bush, Mico, Cyerlink, Thompson all support plus.
you guys are way over my head but let me tell you what i know (wont take long)i have a pioneer a04 -0 problems in a year about 150 burns .panasonic e30recorder 3 weeks using 1ram disk over and over just like vcr so easy it almost hurts, recording to -r easy but scary because i dont like wasting disk .
in reading the avs forum and this forum it becomes clear the panasonic is very reliable and for me that is the most important thing ,the same cannot be said for phillips,many many promblems reported. in this very thread the +r are not rated very high .the only one rated good was the apex but i like many others have an apex player that didnt last a year,i am not trusting 400 $ for that. if the new -r -r.w. work as well as the panasonic and the +r +r.w. keep performing poorly it clear whitch one to buy
as far as ram not being supported by othe dvd players my 2 dvd players do play ram and i have had a vcr for 20+ years i have never given a tape to anyone nor has anyone given me one so why should i worry about my disknot playing on someone elses player
just my thoughts, jo
Iíve got the Philips R70 Dvd Recorder & guess what no problems. PHILIPL would like everyone to think other wise but sorry it works just fine strange world.
Just my experience.
Wow what can I say . . . this has been one VERY informative thread guys. I am most likely going to be buying the Panasonic, will let you know how it goes.
I have a feeling that DVD-Ram playback is being implemented in more DVD players then most realize.
Dead standard - no way.