I capture my vhs-videos with a pinnacle capture card DC10.
This results in huge AVI-files (MJPEG-codec) of several gigabytes.
5 minutes of movie = 1 Gigabyte of storage space.
Impossible to store on DVD-R.
So my question is:
In what format should I archive these "source" files so I can burn them to DVD-R. What format will be the best so I can still edit them later into a final DVD-movie.
Should I use DVD-compatible Mpeg-2 files?
Should I use a seperate movie and audio stream like *.mpv and *.wav?
Should I deinterlace the movie or not?
All advice is very welcome.
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If you want to watch them on a TV with standalone dvd-player, you will have to convert them to MPEG-2 and author to DVD (creates VOB's and folder structure). Also, if watching on TV is your main objective, don't deinterlace. Interlacing is only a problem when viewing on a computer. As far as using elementary streams for authoring a DVD, it depends on your authoring software - some require elementary streams, some don't. I use Ulead DVD Movie Factory 2 and it doesn't care.
As for the editing part, I think for maximum quality you should keep them as AVI's until you're done editing, then encode the final AVI to MPEG-2. In order to edit MPEG-2, the video must be decompressed to an editable state, edited, then recompressed to MPEG-2. Video quality will suffer.
This is from my experience. Others may correct me. I dabble in it, but I'm no expert. -
I use DV from a DV-Cam so my methods are a little diferent. After editing, I usually end up with 15-20 min MPEG-2 movies. I will usually put 4-6 movies on a DVD.
For backup, I will save the MPEG-2 files to a DVD+R for future use. For special Video fotage, (like my son's 1st homerun) I will save in DV-AVI format. I know that I will use this in the future, hopefully combining with many more homeruns. Actually that DV-AVI clip is only 1 min. easily fits on a CD.
The last batch of DVD+R's I bought, cost $1.20 so it is pretty cheap storage. I'm sure it's going to get cheaper too.Got my retirement plans all set. Looks like I only have to work another 5 years after I die........ -
You seem to be asking two questions here (or at least your question can be interpreted two ways):
1) How exactly do I store for archival purposes my source?
2) What format do I keep around for editing purposes?
The answer to the first is simple: it's always your source. IOW, if VHS tapes are what you are capturing from, then it's VHS tapes. If it's mini-DV, then by all means you keep the mini-DV. You can't improve upon the source (well, you can run certain filters and processes that can clean things up but the source still remains the primarily backup material).
We *never* get rid of our source material -- weddings we did 20 years ago are still archived (and, yes, every now and then we get requests from people for their anniversarys). Over the years technology has gotten better and having the original source means we can do more with it.
Videotape is still one of the most durable archival materials out there -- yes, it will lose image (magnetism issues) over time, and if you didn't keep your heads in alignment when first recorded you may have difficulties tracking it, but it's a terrifically durable medium that seldom breaks, scratches or is otherwise vulnerable. I would never erase my source tape.
The answer to (2) is usually DV-AVI. While it's large, with 120gb of storage going for less than $100 there's no reason why editing in this format isn't practical unless you have a large number of open projects all going at the same time (unless you're talking about editing a commercial project where you may well have hundreds of hours of source for an hour or so finished product -- in that case RAID arrays will prove servicable).
I edit four or five two hour projects each weekend, burn them to DVD, erase the drive and start all over again. My 160gb 7200 drive cost $80 (on a special deal) but is routinely available for around $150."Like a knife, he cuts through life, like every day's his last" -- Mr. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang -
racer-x,
What is the video and audio bitrate you use when you convert your AVIs to MPEG2? I am using TmpGENC to covert AVI to MPEG2.
Thanks. -
lal, I use CBR 8000 kbps for all my videos. I use CBR 6000 for my slideshows. It gives me incredible quality, so I don't mind that I can only get 1 hour with LPCM audio or 1 hr 30 min with AC3. I use Besweet to create the AC3's out of the PCM wave files. I use 224 kbps for the AC3 audio.
I edit with Adobe Premiere 6.5 so I use the included Main Concept v1.3 encoder to make MPEG-2. But I've used TEMPGenc before, and it works fine. I just prefer Main Concept.Got my retirement plans all set. Looks like I only have to work another 5 years after I die........ -
Mkelly,
I would assume you transfer the wedding source to digital (HDD), do all your work, and the Master Copy goes into your archives, with good storage parameters, ie, temperature, humidity, away from electrical devices that can cause magnetic fields, etc.
So, would you advise transfer to HDD, output to VHS, again, and store the original as well as you can? Tape to tape copy would be poorer than transfer from tape to digital to tape. (At least, I assume so.)
I mean, most of us ( non-pros ) store our tapes in a rack, or in the cab under the TV, with mag fields created every time the TV is on, or whatever, and, too, may watch them on occassion, causing some deterioration each play.
We are in the hobby of backing up DVDs, so they don't go bad, so shouldn't we back up an important VHS, DV, whatever, and use the backup, instead for occassional viewing, or whatever.
I assume, also, that you wouldn't touch that VHS till the client asked for an anniversary edition. -
Yes, we have better storage conditions than most, but my nighttime gig is done strictly at my HO, so it can be setup in any decent house. In my case I use a large storage closet that sees no other use.
Remember a few things about magnetic fields -- first of all, the field power is inverse to distance, which means for all intents and purposes that it drops off *very* rapidly. A few inches of air is more than adequate to protect videotapes from even the worse offenders (which are always speakers -- they are the only things that have magnets big enough to screw around with tapes). A good rule of thumb is to always wall mount any big speakers in your home studio, so that you can't accidentally put a tape on top of them (don't laugh -- this used to be quite common in a studio I worked in, and people were always wondering why this PSA or that looked so weird).
So unless you have a huge subwoofer in your TV rack, I wouldn't get too worried about tapes stored close by. Just don't pass them across the front of the TV screen closer than a few inches <g>.
I'm a big believer in creating DVDs out of the stuff you want to watch -- but they aren't your backups. For one thing, a DVDR is just way too fragile (give one to a two year old and a few minutes later you'll find out you have nothing watchable. I speak from a lot of granddad experience, which is why I got into backing up my commercial DVDs). As long as you understand it for what it is it's a terrific medium to use instead of your previous originals.
If you are *constantly* using your original footage (say you have a particularly good moment with your cat or grandson you want to include in lots of videos) then by all means keep a copy stored on a hard drive somewhere and don't recap it every time you need it. For the most part, though, you'll find you edit something and never need to use the source again -- just put it away for safekeeping in case you're wrong <g>.
And, yes, we don't use our archival tapes unless someone asks for it: actually just when I say I'm going to clean house and throw them all out I get a request that reminds me why I still have them. At some point when we move I need to make a major decision (at this point in time I've lost track of many of the people for whom we've taped, so I can't exactly alert them). Luckily that isn't for another year or so."Like a knife, he cuts through life, like every day's his last" -- Mr. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang -
Mkelly,
Hell, I'm not laughing. I've been telling my kids for years not to keep their boot floppies in that cute basket on the back of the 'puter tower, right above the PSU.
I shouldn't have said return to VHS after either cap or DV transfer. That would only be if no DVD player. If so, transfer, or cap, convert, burn, store the original, play the DVD till it goes bad, burn another from file. Drive capacity is cheap today.
In my case, I think I'm wearing my own daughter's wedding tape out just trying to GET a good capture. Sumpin's wrong with my sys or my card. When I convert and burn, I get a stutter step, I do not know if it's dropped frames or not. I'm gonna have to drop to 1/4 D1 or VCD to see if that's it, or go up to full D1, to see if my MSI tv@nywhere is just unuseable. I had the same with a Pinnacle PCTV, and am afraid if I DO buy an ATI All-in Wonder, it will just be wasted money. -
Perhaps I should clarify some things.
My sources are Compact-VHS tapes, and I have no intention to throw them away. I can play them on a normal VHS-Recorder using an adapter. But this shows very bad quality. So I play them with the camcorder that I used to record the movies. But what to do when my camcorder dies.
Editing movies into great-looking dvd's with menus and chapters is a very time consuming process. I still have a lot of work to do. So I was thinking of digitizing all those tapes, unedited in their original form and store them as backups of the original source tapes. Just in case I might be unable to capture the original cvhs-cassettes in the near future.
I have a similar problem with my VHS-Recorder. It's seriously damaged. It has 4 heads and *yes* - MKelly, as you mentioned - I'm afraid the heads are not properly aligned. My tapes don't play well on other vhs recorders. If I don't digitize my most precious tapes I will be in serious trouble when my recorder dies. -
Shimrod,
In the case of bad or deteriorating tapes, the best solution is to transfer them onto other tapes. Truly -- tape medium is still the most efficient, best holding of all achival medium. In your case, I'd strongly suggest transferring them onto mini-DV (not only is it a terrific storage medium, but it's likely to be very available in the future and getting a mini-DV recorder or camcorder will serve you in good stead for many years to come). Transferring mini-DV onto the computer is lossless.
Other than that, yes, you can transfer your raw DV-AVI as data on a DVD, getting around 15 minutes per DVD. If you don't have a lot of data this might be a way to go -- for any serious work you'll end up with hundreds of DVDs and a need for a good catalog system (I'd recommend using Advanced Disk Catalog if you go this route -- pretty cheap and a good way to locate things among hundreds of disks. We use it here to catalog all our 3D components from Max). I would *not* store it as MPEG since you are losing every single step of the way (loss to MPEG, loss to encode back out, loss back in for final DVD). And I would make at least two copies of each disk.
gmatov, I understand about your capture problems. You need to get that squared away, not just for your present uses, but for the future. Nothing is more frustrating than not having a reliable workflow, even if it's just a hobby.
For analog to digital non-studio work I've been *extremely* happy with the Dazzle Hollywood. I know a lot of folks have had bad things to say about Dazzle products, but this has produced rock-steady reliable analog captures of everything I've thrown at it, even VHS tapes so bad my studio capture stuff (which stops working if vsync stops even for a frame) won't handle. In the hundreds of hours I've captured I have lost not one frame -- quite frankly, until I read about people's problems in capturing here I never thought dropping a frame was even an option in capturing (as I said, our studio stuff doesn't tolerate this -- you can't broadcast footage which has any dropped frames <g>)
But once you get your capture problems squared away I'm sure you'll be a lot happier -- good luck."Like a knife, he cuts through life, like every day's his last" -- Mr. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang -
Thank you all for helping me out.
Thanx for all that detailed information mkelly. Really cool.
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