(prize!) Getting nowhere fast! Step by Step configuration ne

[uglybains]

Call me Dumbo (and ugly) but I captured a VHS PAL video from a Studio DC10+ to an avi file. Now what?
No good pointing me to a help page cos I tried. What I need is somebody who actually did this with their DC10+. I desperatly need someone to email me generalzod@oneinsix.com with the step-by-step configuration guide for each stage.

1) what settings (all of them!) did you use to capture PAL
2) what settings to make a movie file avi.
3) what settings on TMPGE to covert avi to mpeg for VCD
4) what settings on Nero to burn mpeg to VCD
5) what did you use to play the Cd on your Computer

Should it work for me, for your troubles give me your mailing address and I will pop you something for xmas!

[lafamar]

It's very simple:

1) TMPGenc soft let you convert .avi for .mpg/dat(VCD) using this easy configuration guide on: http://www.vcdhelp.com/tmpgenc.htm

2) Nero soft let you burn VCD using this easy configuration guide on: http://www.vcdhelp.com/nero.htm

3) WMP(Windows Media Player) plays VCD. Load WMP=>"Open File"=>choose "All files" and double click on your blablabla.dat(VCD).

After if you have a specific problem come back us.
Bye

[Ricardo]

Right I have a DC10+ and have recently converted from a VHS tape to VCD so it's still quite fresh in my mind.

Step 1 (Capturing)
Capture at half frame size and width so you have video at 384 x 288 without any of the problems associated with interlacing. Don't use cropping or you'll find that you have to rescale the picture to get it to VCD size.

Step 2 (Encode it to Mpg) [assuming you don't want to do any video editing]
(i) Open up TMPGEnc and select the AVI file that you've just created. If the file's less than 74 minutes in length just load the VideoCD (PAL) template and then click the configure button.
(ii) Set motion search accuracy to High Quality (slow) and then click on the advanced tab.
(iii) Click on crop video so it's selected and then double click it to put some settings in. (I used top=11, btm=12, Left=9 and right=9), then OK.
(iv) Do similar for source frame range setting your start and end frames to suit yoiur needs. (NB. I currently have a problem here in that I get blank screen after 17mins of encoding, but no-one else seems to have this problem, but see how you go) Come back to me if you have this problem also!!
(v) Click on Quantiser Matrices tab and select soften block noise (I change both numbers to 50, but can leave as 35 if you like), then click OK.

Youre ready to go now now so just click the encode button and leave it to run.

Step 3 (burn)
(i) Open Nero and pick videoCD.
(ii) Accept all of the default settings (put a label name if you like) and then click new.
(iii) find the mpeg file in the file browser window and drag it across to the left hand window. (NB. It will check the file and hopefully will then show as a track)
(iv) Select burn CD from the file manu and it should start writing.

Step 4 (view)
Stick it in a DVD player, or use DVD player sofware on your PC to play.

I've successfully used WinDVD, PowerDVD and the freebee DVD software that came with my ATI card. (All seem to play them OK)

SVCD tend to be more of a problem to play on a PC, but that's another story.

Anyway,... hopefully this will get you going and feel free to email me on rick.atkinson@ntlworld.com if you want more help or just want to share experiences.

[uglybains]

Thats more like it.(RICK) But the quality is nowhere near VHS. People record their star trek on them so there must be a way to improve the images.
After capturing it you 'make file' but you didn't say which settings to convert to avi using DC10. I persume you use the Intel(R)VideoR32 codec and keep the size 384x288 at 25 fps. Quality 100. Data rate 3000. Is this all correct?

Gosh I didn't know I had to use a template with TMPGE. On it's advanced tab, the source aspect ratio should be what? (1:1vga?) since it's on avi or keep it on 625 PAL.

File size doesn't matter so much, I need better quality so should I muck around somewhere? Perhaps I have to capture at a better rate and compress it less. I should go back to rubbing two sticks together! Did I just see a T-Rex go by...

[Ricardo]

I'll send you my reply direct cos it's pretty standard stuff for everyone else.

[bbb]

VCD resolution is too low to give clear and acceptable video; I've exhaustively tested the Panasonic Encoder and Tmpgenc and both makes blurry vcds. I have multiple test video clips to prove the uselessness of VCD settings in creating VHS quality video.

Make SVCDs (or XVCD) instead; the resolution gives far better video (sometimes very near dvd quality on TV). With tweaking and dual variable bitrate encoding passes, you can fit 1 hour of very good quality video on 1 80 min cdr.

With your DC 10+, use PicVideo MJPEG codec and don't compress too much.

You can also sharpen and smooth out your captured video using VirtualDub filters and frameserve it into Tmpgenc 12j. Use Tmpgenc to inverse telecine to save space. It's very effective.

[Ricardo]

I agree that SVCD's are much better quality, but remember the source is from VHS.

Unless you get a very good capture and the tape recording is good quality then you are wasting the extra quality.

I found recently that the de-noise filter in tmpenc can help here but there's no substitute for a clean source.

How does inverse telecine reduce the file size?

[Shannafey]

I have an NTSC DC10+ card, but that doesn't make a difference in what I am posting. Why is everyone changing the .avi codec after capturing? I just take the .avi in the MJPEG codec from the DC10 and put it in TMMPG and use the edit function to make the start and finish points. You only need to rerender to .avi if you are doing some serious editing, because, as most of you know, DC10's mpeg codec is horrible and you'd what to use TMMPG for the VCD file.

[mijman]

I make captured VCDs with my DC10s daily. It couldn't be easier, but there are a couple of points that haven't been brought up yet.
1. Use the crop function to eliminate bad edges around the borders, and set to full screen.
2. use the basic color correction. (depending on the source video) I tend to keep the gamma at -30, contrast at 10-20, and the blue & red at 15-20.

I capture with the VidCap program that came on the disc, because my computer refuses to run the main program for some reason. With it, I capture at 640x480. Send it off to TMPGenc for encoding, and then to Nero for writing. Since there is that annoying 2GB limit for AVIs, I just capture each segment seperately until commercial breaks. I don't really know how things are shown on TV, in regards to station breaks, in a PAL place, but in the "colonies" they rarely, if ever, make their segments over 20 minutes or so. I can capture about 22 or 23 minutes before I hit my limit.

When I want to capture a frame for a cd label or something, I use VirtualDub and import my raw AVI for best results. Much better picture from a 640x480 than from a TV size.

[ktnwin]

For the last few days, I captured a few VHS video tapes into my PC and convert them to XVCD (not standard VCD). I can only fit about 50 minutes of video on one CD-R (80min).
The quality is pretty good. No macro blocks, no pixellation.
Granted, the picture does not match the original tape but it's very acceptable.
I have done lots of XVCD from DVD rips and home Digital Video (played on 50" big screen) so I know what really good VCD quality is.
And the ones made from VHS tapes are very acceptable (8 out of 10 compared to VHS). And these CDs will last a long time with random access capability too.



_________________
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ktnwin - PATIENCE - PATIENCE - PATIENCE
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<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ktnwin on 2001-10-10 20:37:52 ]</font>

[vhelp]

After reading all these responses to origonal poster, I desided
to play around with a few REGULAR tapes - I had a few hunches.

Anyways, while I was shoping, I found Meatballs, the movie on
VHS tape for $6 bucks at K-Mart this evening after work. It's
funny... I was thinking of ..."if I could only find 'Meatballs', but
noone seems to have it" Anyways, to my surprise, there it was.

K, I figure, this tape's gotta such in quality - I mean the movie
was produced back un 78 or 79 right? Anyways, I go and put
the think in my S-VHS machine, and right away, I noticed a
servier amount of static and wigly lines. Ok, I go and fast worward
the thing a little, and still a bunch of distortion. All this while I
was Capturing with my DC10+ card. Anyways, so I let it play and
I proceed to press the sp/ep button on my remote a couple of
times. And, to MY surprise, the quality improved dramatically!
So, I let it continue to play and Capture for a while. Then I stopped
it and played the .avi file - just to see the quality. I must say,
it was pretty dam good. I guess it just depends on the tape,
who makes (encodes or transfers) the actual movied and whatever
else I may have missed. Or, maybe it was just my S-VHS. I
remember testing the movie "Overboard" and the quality (at first)
was good (I used my standard VHS machine at the time), when I
compare these two captures (my VHS agains my S-VHS), the quality
was definately better with the S-VHS machine. But, I guess it
need more tests. ...stay tunned! Oh, it's NOT in Wide Screen
format. Sorry!

So, I decided to do a small test capture with my Star Wars
"Phantom Menance" on VHS tape. I've captured a small clip
and am encoding it now, as I am typing this message. As to
the .avi quality, it was good when I played it!

I use my DC10+ card ALL the time!
What I capture with it:
* Directv
* VHS movies (not rental stores, as quality suchs! )
* S-VHS - shows I taped and NOW have time to encode from...
- - well, capture and encode from.

I can't get the 640x480 out of it though. When I set it up for
640x480, it just sits there and does nothing, till I move the mouse
in the video windows area, then it starts capturing, but drops
as many frames as it captures - in other words, nothing!
So, I use the cropped 608x464 and I have NO drops, give or
take 6 frams an hour.

When I finish encoding the sample clips of Star Wars, I'll give
the movie "Overboard" a second try, but this time, it will be from
my S-VHS machine. But, I kind of think it wont matter. I think that
it really depends on the tape (see above). But, I'll give it a try
anyway, since I'm curious now!

Well, that's it for now, till I come back here with my results of
my capture/encode quality.

So, stay tuned!!

[vhelp]

Ok,

Here is my results with the Star Wars "Phantom Menance"
capture and encode and judging viewing quality.

After encoding to SVCD 480x480, and played on my PC,
the quality was as expected with PC viewing - on the
blurry or fuzzy side, but good.
But, when I burned to CD with nero, using the SVCD
template, and then I played it on my 13" TV, the quality
was great, VHS that is. It looked pretty much like the
VHS tape quality minus a few minor gliches in the encode.

What I captured was the opening scence, when the Star Wars
fades into the background and they phase the brief history
of the begining Star Wars. That came out great!
My second Capture was then they landed on what looks like
the begings of the Space station or Star destroyer. That
came out pretty good too.

Well, that's it for now, till I test the movie "Overboard"

[vhelp]

Ok,

Lastly, I've finished testing my hunches.
And, these were my results.
Meatballs, came out looking VHS quality,
and, Overboard came out looking VHS quality as well.
I couldn't help feel that Overboard looked a tad bit
better on my S-VHS machine. But, the quality of
the encode of both captures, (Meatballs and Overboard)
looked very good on my TV, once burned to CD, and
that's what counts for me, when I judge for quality.

Ok, my final (I think) last saying and my recommendations
are as follows:
* If you planning on transfering your VHS collection to CD,
best set your res to highest, mine was 608x464.
Anything less that than that, i.e., 320x480 or 320x240 isn't
worth the effort in producing much (VCD or SVCD). But, there
are many that feel VCD is enough, and I guess that that's
what counts - to the individual!! MO is, go with highest res.
you can. And, don't cap at those 320x240, 320x480, ect.
Quality at these caps aren't worth the quicker processing
time to VCD. Caping at these small res. will always bring
you MORE fuzzyness when viewed, than if caped at higher
res. i.e., 608x464 or higher.
Bottom line, if you want the BEST quality in your final CD,
go higher, else stick to VCD quality using lower res. Also,
for a newbie, such as yourself, you wont notice the difference
in quality, till you become more experienced, and admit to
yourself, that higher is better, period!! And, if you truely
want long life viewing, and quality, go higher. Else, you'll
regret it, and wish you did. All's you'll end up doing is re-
encoding all over again. Go Higher!!!! Mind the time. It's
worth it!! That's my opion, and I'm sticken to it!!!
I refereing to those movies you get, store
bought, not home made videos from camcorders. I don't
have any experience in this area, but as I have read here
and in addition to my own experience, garbage in is Always
gonna be garbage out!!!

Have any more questions, post.

Welp, hope this has help you in your endevers!!!

[loudanddeep]

Ok, I just started working with my DC10+, and I see a lot of posts here of people saying that they use a lot of different resolutions.

Now, some of the posts are not clear on is they are talking about the resolution they capture at, or the resolution they convert to.

When I capture with the DC10+, the only do not get to pick any sort of custom resolution, I only get pretty much two choices.

Could some of you who have more experience with this board please explain what CAPTURE resoultions you use, and what software you do it with.

(I have tried both the thing the board came with, and VirtDub, both call up the ugly pinnacle config screen).

I am planning on capturing, then converting to vcd/xvcd/svcd (depends on length of feature) and burning with nero.

tia.

dp