Trying to create Audio CD soundtrack from DVD

[doctor_how]

I'm trying to create an Audio CD soundtrack of the Yes Symphonic Tour DVD. I'm using Yade to extract the streams, MAC3DEC to convert the AC3 files to .aiff, and burning it with iTunes. Now, when I extract the streams with Yade, I get two .ac3 files: t1p1s2-00.ac3 and t1p1s2-01.ac3, and I don't know which one to use. They are the same song, and I don't know the difference between the two. I want a stereo file at the loudest it can be without distortion, and at it's natural recording level. While on the volume subject then, should I be checking the "normalize" box in MAC3DEC or not? Also, the "split channels" box. Thanks in advance.
Eric

[WiseWeasel]

Those two files are from different soundtracks of the DVD, like possibly a foreign language, surround sound or director's commentary track. Are they both the same filesize? If one is significantly bigger than the other, you probably have a 5.1 channel ac3 and a stereo ac3. Use the smaller stereo one rather that letting the ripping software downmix surround to stereo. If they are the same size, they are probably different languages or commentaries, and you should listen to them and make sure it's what you want. Play them back using Apack, VLC or mplayer to make sure you've got the one you want to decode. I always use the 'normalize' option to prevent drastic changes in loudness that sometimes occur on ac3 tracks. Split channels is not necessary, unless you're importing them into a mixing program. My suggestion is to try the process both with normalization on and off, and see which sounds better. AC3 decoding doesn't take too long anyways.

[doctor_how]

Thanks! I think i got it figured out now. But now I have a different predicament: You see, the Yes DVD gives you the option to either sometimes watch groovy 3D animations throughout the concert or the band. This is done through two different angles, one for the concert and one for the animations. In YADE, Instead of splitting up the concert into it's 14 chapters for the 14 songs, it splits it up into all the angles and animations possible and I have like 52 chapters! If you know Yes music, sometimes it can get to around 20 minutes for one song, and some of the longer songs is split up into multiple chapters because of the animations. Is there a different Mac program for OS9/OSX that can maybe organize it all a bit better and so songs aren't split up?

[doctor_how]

Sorry if it seems like I'm trying to move my post up or anything, but I have a new problem. I've been able to extract the entire concert on one big AC3 file and converted it to .AIFF. Now, I want to separate it into the songs for burning onto CD. I wrote down the times each track starts and ends and tried to use that as a reference, but when I try to split it up into the tracks with the times specified on the DVD player display, it's off. For example, the first track goes until 2m52s, and then the second track goes until 23m22s. On the .aiff file, the first track ends at 2m52s like the DVD player said, but the second track ends around 25m09s, almost two minutes off from what it should be? Any explanations?

[WiseWeasel]

No explanation here. Just mess around with QT Pro or some audio editing program, and try to get the songs split up. I have no idea how extra time could show up in the AIFF that wasn't there on the DVD, but as long as it sounds good, I wouldn't worry about it. Just listen to the whole thing before you burn to CD.

[jbcandkc]

I did this recently. Here is what I did.

Rip DVD with OSEX to Elem. Streams wtih segment set to chapter.
You will get 1 .ac3 file per DVD chapter (hopefully the DVD has been broken down to 1 chapter per song).

Convert .ac3 to .aiff (I used More Missing Tools but I'm sure there are others)

Add .aiff to iTunes and burn as audio cd with NO GAP between tracks.

jbcandkc

EDIT: I re-read the post and you said you were using YADE, isn't that OS9 only? My expaination was for OSX, not sure if it would work for OS9.

[doctor_how]

Well, I have one of those weird hybrid OS9/OSX computers that you can reboot into either operating system. Now, the Yes DVD is weird as some songs are split up into smaller pieces because of optional animations you can turn on/off during the concert. That makes some songs repeat sections over twice when I rip it. I've just decided to give up with ripping it and am recording it through the line in jack. Another problem is that there is audience noise throughout the concert, and so when I burn a no gaps CD, I get clicks right before each track (actually it's between tracks) becuase the zero crossing is messed up. Is there a way to get around that without having to set the first instance of all the tracks at zero? Then there's a weird pause when I do that, and that sounds weird too. I wonder how the big fancy CD producers get around that when doing concerts.....

[galactica]

Well, I have one of those weird hybrid OS9/OSX computers that you can reboot into either operating system.

Weird? Any computer with two systems (usually stored on two seperate HD's) will allow you to boot into either operating system.


This was also the Apple way of phasing in OSX and phasing out OS9.

The New G4's and G5's dont even boot into OS9 Anymore.
Id expect with 10.3 that the "Classic" environment is gone as well.

[ZeroSix]

Another problem is that there is audience noise throughout the concert, and so when I burn a no gaps CD, I get clicks right before each track (actually it's between tracks) becuase the zero crossing is messed up. Is there a way to get around that without having to set the first instance of all the tracks at zero? Then there's a weird pause when I do that, and that sounds weird too. I wonder how the big fancy CD producers get around that when doing concerts.....

What are you using to burn? You should be using Toast Titanium. Use the Audio CD function, set the gap between tracks to 0, and make sure that DISC-AT-ONCE is selected in the preferences. This will make a seamless track transition for your entire CD.

Another option is to use Peak to split up your audio into multiple tracks [called REGIONS] and export as a Sound Designer 2 Image. You can open the Sound Designer 2 Image [.sd2f] file in Toast as a disc image to burn, Quicktime for playback, or in Peak to change regions if you want to.

[doctor_how]

Not to diss Macs or anything, but I'm going to do the soundtrack on my Windows computer, chiefly because it has better software on it than my Mac. Unfortunately, my PC is slower and has less memory, but time is something i'll have to sacrifice for quality.

[doctor_how]

Yes! I've figured it all out! All I must do is make sure the first instance of each track is at zero, which isn't even audible, and there's no clicks! I'm almost done with the CD, thanks to all who helped.
Eric

[jbcandkc]

Glad you got it figured out. But 1 question. You refered to zero crossing and setting first instance of each track to zero. What is that? I have never heard of either (Which Program are you referring to?)

jbcandkc

[doctor_how]

Well, i've learned from past faults that if you're going to transfer a concert recording to CD, and there's noise whether it's hiss, audience noise, or whatever, you're going to want to split it up into the tracks for the songs, right? Of course! Now, if you just rip the .AC3 stereo file from the DVD, convert it to .aiff, and burn the files, some of the files are going to have a zero crossing problem. You see, if a track doesn't start and end at zero (the volume) there is going to be a gap between sound waves when you transition to the next track. To fill the gap, there's going to be an annoying, loud, click. To remedy this, you should go into an editor, like Cool Edit (it's for PC, sorry Mac users) and find the very first instance of where the sound starts. Zoom in as far as you can until you can hopefully isolate the first sample of sound. Make sure that that first sample of sound is at zero using the "Amplify" controls or by dragging it or something. Do the same with the last. Do that with all of the tracks, and there won't be a click! There might be a VERY slight pause in sound, but it's better than a click, and it's barely audible. Hope that helps somewhat. If you're making a CD of a movie that has songs that end and begin, and hopefully has some silence between the two, you probably don't have to worry about it, but it never hurts.

[jbcandkc]

Thanks for the info Doc. Since this is a Mac forum, I assumed you were
using Mac software. If you want to try a little more testing, the DVD
that I did using the method in my previous post was Roy Orbison Black &
White Night. It has 18 tracks with applause between every track. I used
OSEX, More Missing Tools and iTunes 4 (with OSX) and it sounds perfect
without going down to zero volume between tracks. The seamless branching
may have been causing you some trouble, my DVD didn't have any. Thanks
again.

jbcandkc

[frostbyte]

Actually the zero crossover point is a bit different. it has nothing to do with the volume, the zero is referring to the waves position:

\
\
\
\
---x---------------------
\
\
\

The 'x' is where the wave hit the zero crossover. If you open your audio file in an editor and see a lot of waves moving up and down over and under a horizontal line, the point where they cross the line each time can be used as a possible zero crossover. You may need to zoom in a lot. Peace.