Anyone hard up for a date?

[gmatov]

Rhegedus,

I'm sorry to post another, but completely skipped your post, though I had read it.

Yes, torso targets have scoring rings, so that shooters can be scored for accuracy. Not group, but a hit in the 10 ring is a solid heart hit, which "should" put a bad guy down, as opposed to an off center lung shot, with which a bad guy might still be able to empty a magazine at you. There is only one winner in a gunfight, and that is the guy still standing.

Bill Jordan, a famous Border Patrolman in Texas, wrote a book entitled "No Second Place Winners" that says it all.

The Dick Francis books tell much about the attitude toward guns in Britain, and they go back 40 years. I've read them all, as well as a thousand others.

If you don't mind my asking, how old are you. You seem to be a little older than most of the members here, therefor, a little less, well that's the way it is, and that's the way "they" said it should be. If you're anywhere near my age, you're normal, if you're a younker, you're a rogue, or noncomformist, or something.

Cheers,
George

[vitualis]

I think people look at this whole gun debate from the wrong angle -- always arguing personal rights and freedoms as if they were the most important thing.

Everything in life is a compromise. I give up my freedom to drive at crazy speeds on public roads so that society in general is more safe.

The same for guns.

In Australia, the sentiment is that there is no need for the average home owner to own a gun. The feeling is that the gun is a dangerous weapon and that the general increased risk to society of gun related injury and death outweights the possible and realistically rare occurence where the individual owning the gun would have been able to protect themselves +/- others.

And I think it works.

I NEVER think that I would be shot by a gun when I walk down the street and indeed, gun related injury or death is extremely rare. If I ever have the misfortune of being robbed by someone, I'm almost certain that I won't be shot either.

The trade-off is that each person by giving up the potential minor gains in personal safety by not owning a gun, they get the major gain of greatly reducing the risk of being shot by somebody else (either deliberately or accidentally).

Regards.

[Conquest10]

I NEVER think that I would be shot by a gun when I walk down the street and indeed, gun related injury or death is extremely rare. If I ever have the misfortune of being robbed by someone, I'm almost certain that I won't be shot either.

its the complete opposite here in the us. i always avoid conflicts with other people because i don't know if that person has a gun or not. same thing if i ever get robbed. the person might get mad that i don't have enough money and might decide to shoot me.

[tgpo]

its the complete opposite here in the us. i always avoid conflicts with other people because i don't know if that person has a gun or not. same thing if i ever get robbed. the person might get mad that i don't have enough money and might decide to shoot me.

I've found s sure fire way not to get hurt. I never leave the house!!! :P


Our gun freedome, I believe, was to combat the government if they ever turned sour. That way we'd have the resources to at least fight back.

[fmctm1sw]

Wow, this went from a little comedy to a all out gun control thread. Yikes. Where's Charlton Heston when you need him?

[rhegedus]

If you don't mind my asking, how old are you. You seem to be a little older than most of the members here, therefor, a little less, well that's the way it is, and that's the way "they" said it should be. If you're anywhere near my age, you're normal, if you're a younker, you're a rogue, or noncomformist, or something.

I'm 30, but learned to use an air pistol (Webley Hurricane) at the age of six. A couple of the kids in the area (lots of farmland and woods around) had older brothers with air rifles. Since my dad didn’t want to tell me who I could or could not play with, he bought the air pistol and taught me to respect the power that guns have. Though I could regularly shoot an apple from about 20m away, I never ever aimed at anyone or animals. I don’t agree with hunting for the sake of trophies, but see the need for population control to prevent disease etc.

The problem begins when those that have no respect for guns or life have easy access to them and see them as a means of settling squabbles or improving gang status.

[rhegedus]

Everything in life is a compromise. I give up my freedom to drive at crazy speeds on public roads so that society in general is more safe.

The same for guns.

But it's not the likes of you that cause road accidents and deaths, but those that still drive at crazy speeds irrespective of the law.

The same for guns.

[gmatov]

Vitualis,
My god, of course personal rights and freedoms are the most important thing in the world!!!

You cannot allow your elected officials, or, worse, the regulators charged with writing the rules to be enforced. In many cases, here, after the regulators write up the rules, the lawmakers say "That's not what we intended when we passed the law."

So, you have lost some rights due to regulators, rather than lawmakers.

That's how a 10 page bill becomes a thousand pages of regulations.

So, in Australia, the average homeowner should not have the right to a means of self defence, but the "privileged" may?

You, who drive within the speed limit, are not the problem. The "bully-boys" are the problem. The same with guns. The law abiding don't cause the problems, the bad guys do..

The problem with "the rare occasion" is that it might be YOU or yours, whose life is saved, or lost, because the powers that be tell you "better a few dead from brutality, than more from accident".

The US has over 700,000 full time uniformed police officers. They can not only not protect the populace, as I have mentioned, the Supreme Court has ruled many times that there is no imperative that they do so.

Their purpose is to maintain order in our society. Of course, they also investigate crimes after they are committed, and try to find the perp.

I'll have to do some research to see what the actual death rate is in Australia, GB, and European countries.

Something tells me you guys don't have all the answers.

Hey, how about Canada, where they were going to set up a "Registry" for 20 million bucks or so, and have spent over a Billion so far? And it's still not up and running.

Conquest,
You're right. It's always best to avoid conflict, in any case, but you don't know if the guy has a gun OR a knife, OR maybe even a piece of pipe.
Your chance of being shot by the guy would probably depend on if he was a licensed carrier, or a "bad guy", ie., not a CCW holder. If he is permitted, he has passed a background check. He is probably level headed. He is not going to risk losing his permit over a squabble. And, he surely doesn't want to kill anyone. If he's a brute, on the other hand, get your ass away from him, they have no respect gor human life.

You're right also, that muggers get pissed if they don't get enough money from a muggee. They'll maim and injure out of rage and frustration. The links above lead to pages that indicate that submitting to a strongarm artist more often leads to injury than resistance does.

Rhegedus,
If I'm not mistaken, air pistols are pretty well regulated, now, also, aren't they. Must belong to a certified club, carry to and from only, etc.?

Aye, there's the rub. The bad guy. In my opinion, the thug who takes a life should be treated like a sheep eating dog. Either put down, or imprisoned for life, with no parole. Accidents cause great mental anguish to those who take a life or cause great injury to an innocent.

But the murderer is no longer human. Once he has killed, it is easy to do again. This does not apply to the military, they were following orders,and protecting what their Commander-in-Chief told them to. In police work, however, it is possible that it applies. many cops will tell you they have never fired their gun in anger, but there are others who have, often. Perhaps they just find it easy, now

On an aside, I'm 5 foot 10, weigh 145 pounds, am pushing 60. How many muggers do you think I could face up to, and live, if I, or anyone else of my stature, were not allowed personal defence? Should I be condemned to stay in my house, as TGPO says he does, because I can't whoop a couple young punk, football player, dropouts?

Cheers,
George

[gmatov]

I'm thinking of starting an Off Topic Thread related to the Firearms issue.

I don't know if it is allowed on this Forum, but Off Topic IS Off Topic, so mebbe.

Actually, the reason is that, generally speaking, those in favor of Firearms only write anything in Firearms fora, if that is the plural of forum. Preaching to the choir, as it were.

I have found some material that kinda wounds, if not shoots down, the comments above.

Anyone wants to come in, welcome.

It may be educational.

Cheers,

George

[Will Hay]

Wow, this went from a little comedy to a all out gun control thread

I think the comedy stopped when I read what this women had done
Will

[Will Hay]

I'm thinking of starting an Off Topic Thread related to the Firearms issue.

I don't know if it is allowed on this Forum, but Off Topic IS Off Topic, so mebbe.

Actually, the reason is that, generally speaking, those in favor of Firearms only write anything in Firearms fora, if that is the plural of forum. Preaching to the choir, as it were.

I have found some material that kinda wounds, if not shoots down, the comments above.

Anyone wants to come in, welcome.

It may be educational.

Cheers,

George

You might want to create a poll as well George, although you make the options a little more detailed than
1) in favour
2) not in favour

Your call of course
Will

[Will Hay]

I'll have to do some research to see what the actual death rate is in Australia, GB, and European countries.

I think Craig Tucker posted some statistic's earlier.

Something tells me you guys don't have all the answers.

No George, we don't.
We're all under 35 and can't function without a computer, right?
Sarcasm aside, who does have the answer's George, who can tell me the answer, the definitive answer in solving gun crime?
Can you?
If so, please PM me and I'll try get myself elected.
Information like that has to be worth something to society, right?
Will

[energy80s]

Well, I live in a country where the police are armed, oh and its part of the UK! Then again when you are being targeted by hoods on an hourly basis, you need a weapon at your side. The odd thing is that most of our terrorist weapons were paid for by the USA and shipped from Libia by Col. Gadaffi in the 1980's. Everyone thought that when the ceasefires were declared in the mid 1990's that Northern Ireland would be a safer place to live, but it has become a lot more lawless. Belfast used to be a safe city with very little crime (you could quite happily carry a wad of notes around in the street without anyone trying to mug you!) but now it's full of alcoholics, drug addicts and wee hoods involved in all sorts of petty crime up to and including kidnapping. Sometimes I wish we were back in the "bad old days" as it was a lot safer!

[gmatov]

Will, hello,

Glad to see someone's watching, if not replying/adding to.

Hell, no, I don't have the answers.

And, no, being under 35 doesn't make you know-nothings

I could say you are children of the media, but won't.

Here's a quote, admittedly from a biased site:


LONDON NOW GUN CRIME CAPITAL
London is the gun crime capital of Britain, according to the Home Office statistics.

Nearly 4,200 crimes involving firearms were committed in Greater London last year. Greater Manchester was the second most dangerous place for gun crime.

Nationwide, guns were used in 9,974 reported crimes in 2002, up from 7,362 the year before.

The government’s solution is to slap a ban on airguns and replica firearms, which can be illegally converted to fire live ammunition. Carrying the weapons in public without a license would become illegal, officials said.

British criminals obviously pay no attention to the nation’s ban on handgun ownership.

And here's another:

BRITISH MAN WHO KILLED IN SELF-DEFENSE AGAIN DENIED PAROLE
In a serious miscarriage of justice, a British farmer convicted of murder for killing a burglar who had broken into his home was denied parole for the second time at a recent hearing.

The Parole Board gave no reason for turning down the petition of TONY MARTIN, although an unofficial source alleged it was because a probation report labeled the farmer “a danger to burglars.”

MARTIN gained international attention when he was convicted of murder after shooting two burglars who had broken into his isolated farmhouse in Norfolk, England, one of whom died.

MARTIN’s appeal of his conviction on grounds of self-defense was denied, and then his request to have his case presented before the House of Lords was rejected. Even new forensic evidence wasn’t enough to warrant acquittal, although his conviction was reduced to manslaughter and his sentence reduced to 5 years.

With a draconian legal system that punishes self-defense and passes laws that disarm its citizens, Great Britain has only itself to blame for becoming one of the world’s most notorious crime capitals and creating a helpless citizenry.

And a third:

KNIFE CONTROL THE NEW CRY IN SCOTLAND
Deputy justice minister HUGH HENRY says Scotland’s brutal culture of knives, machismo and alcohol is a much greater threat to public safety than guns and must be brought under control.

Knife crime in Scotland has risen from 6,500 incidents in 1992 to 8,671 in 2001. Police say there’s more risk of meeting a knife on the streets than a gun.

So far, no knife control group has come forward to advocate legislation.

So, it is not a US issue, only. Actually, it is a UN issue. The UN has a commission, thirty worsds in its name, that is dedicated to removing the right of self defence from the people.

Actually, this is not surprising. The UN is Eurocentric. The European nations have always removed the means of self defense from their citizens, or in the case of many, their subjects.

Once upon a time, the German Empire confiscated all weapons from their "citizens", and 6 million Jews, and 6 million "others" died.

As to one post above which said more or less, "I'll give up some of my liberties to feel safer", I think it was Ben Franklin who said "He who would give up a little liberty for a little safety, deserves neither".

Nice to hear from you, anyhow.

Not interested, no problem.

Cheers,

George

[gmatov]

Energy,
I'm sorry to hear that.
When you say paid for by the USA, do you mean as in Patriot Games ( I think that was the name of the movie, Tom Clancy, Harrison Ford ) where the Irish-Americans contributed to the funds to arm the bad guys?
Or do you actually mean by the US Government?
And, of course, governments will sell arms to anyone. Hey, it's money in the bank, and someone gets a cut.

I think, if we go back to the kids who killed the younger kid, and the Americans thought it was an English thing, we can blame some of the old movies, from Classic Novels, specifically Prince and the Pauper, and the other one, the title of which escapes me at the moment, the one with the Harry Potter star as the lead character, "Please, Sir, can I have some more?"

All countries, 200 years ago, had their street urchins, bands of ragamuffins, in their largest cities, who would combine to attack and rob the unwary. What could they do, but throw them into reform schools, or, today, juvenile detention centers.

The problem is, when revenues go down, they're the first to be thrown out on the street.

With 500 years of strife in your country, throwing a few more Brits in is not going to help

[energy80s]

As to one post above which said more or less, "I'll give up some of my liberties to feel safer", I think it was Ben Franklin who said "He who would give up a little liberty for a little safety, deserves neither".

George

I hope you're not referring to me! And what the f**k is liberty anyway! Censorship isn't a bad thing, we live with it every day. Free speech on the other hand can be a very dangerous weapon. There are always consequences to your actions.

[Baldrick]

Sorry...but gun control=POLITICS. Topic closed.