Anyone hard up for a date?

[housepig]

God only knows if I have heard that crap once, I have heard it a hundred times. It is just convoluted logic. The bad guys still get all the guns they want. We have volumes of laws that can not help stupid, why city dwelling fools should infringe on my rights because they know or read about someone who was stupid and the story ended in a tragedy!!

Doggiedaddy -

(okay, I've rewritten this 3 times already).

my post had nothing to do with bad guys getting guns. it had nothing to do with the laws we have. it has nothing to do with city-dwelling fools (by extension, of course, there are no fools in the country?).

it has to do with the number of people who die as a result of accidents around guns. period.

and I found my statistics anyway - persons age infant-14 years, accidental firearm deaths in 2000 - 50,400, or about 138 per day. (source - http://www.cdc.gov/)

but that's okay - we're just weeding out the foolish city kids, I guess.

[hoyboy]

Are those statistics correct about accidental shootings Housepig. If they are it is a horrendous problem in america. I own a few weapons, but they are kept in a locked room, and the ammo is kept seperate. Ok, I don't live in an area that has a problem with crime involving firearms but this is the only way to stop things like this happening- Other than keeping the firearms well away from the kids and educating them on safe usage when they are a little older. Just a point of view

[rhegedus]

and I found my statistics anyway - persons age infant-14 years, accidental firearm deaths in 2000 - 50,400, or about 138 per day. (source - http://www.cdc.gov/)

According to the stats on that web-site, the firearms deaths for ALL ages in 2000 was about 40,000. Whre did you get the stats for ages 0-14?



http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00023655.htm#00000191.gif

[Craig Tucker]

and I found my statistics anyway - persons age infant-14 years, accidental firearm deaths in 2000 - 50,400, or about 138 per day. (source - http://www.cdc.gov/)

I find that figure absolutely staggering, I had no idea it would be so high. Just 1 tragedy like that over here would be headline news. Faced with these sort of statistics I am amazed there is not a greater opposition to gun ownership. We had a couple of incidents over here where people went bezerk shooting innocent people and there was such a public outcry that handgun ownership was outlawed.

[Doggiedaddy]

Stupid is as Stupid does. They can not, nor could they ever be helped they are just STUPID............ Taking away [any rights] including but not limited to hand guns, semi-autos or cannons and knifes are not going to help them. They are so STUPID they will find a way, it is written.
Sorry, I get a little into the whole taking away of rights thing. How in the heck did this off-topic even get started??

Enough Said
bymeanyway

[housepig]

rhegedus -

I hope I'm wrong.

I did a search for death statistics, starting here : http://webapp.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate10.html

I then selected (by section)
1. unintentional
2. firearm

then under advanced, I selected age groups - 0-4 to 10-14

I get a result of 86 deaths per 100,000 of population, and a population of 58 million. 58,670,959 / 100,000 * 86 = 50,458

If I'm screwing the math, please let me know.

[Craig Tucker]

and I found my statistics anyway - persons age infant-14 years, accidental firearm deaths in 2000 - 50,400, or about 138 per day. (source - http://www.cdc.gov/)

According to the stats on that web-site, the firearms deaths for ALL ages in 2000 was about 40,000. Whre did you get the stats for ages 0-14?



http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00023655.htm#00000191.gif

Those are predicted statistics the recorded statistics in that chart only go up to 1991, although this chart does state ALL deaths. There does seem to be some disparity between the figures.

[rhegedus]

Yeah, I know - but once I saw it I knew that it would be more accurate than the claim of 50,400 deaths per year in the 0-14 age group. Even if you add 10,000 for error, it still casts serious doubt on the veracity of the original statistics.

[housepig]

Taking away [any rights] including but not limited to hand guns, semi-autos or cannons and knifes are not going to help them. They are so STUPID they will find a way, it is written

I agree - determined people find a way. Stupid people will be stupid and have accidents. However, it's a lot harder to kill yourself or your buddy by accident with a knife.

I re-ran the same set of parameters, except for cut/pierce injuries instead of firearms, and I got 5 per 100,000, or 2,900 kids per year dying from accidental cuts or piercings... i.e. knives. So for every kid dying from a knife, we have 17 dying from guns.

Good question - how did this get started?

[0 kewl]

21 it is. No big deal, I'm not a drinker.

Of course you're not. You're only 20 :P

[Conquest10]

I find that figure absolutely staggering, I had no idea it would be so high. Just 1 tragedy like that over here would be headline news. Faced with these sort of statistics I am amazed there is not a greater opposition to gun ownership. We had a couple of incidents over here where people went bezerk shooting innocent people and there was such a public outcry that handgun ownership was outlawed.

what's the murder rate in england? not trying to be offensive, just asking. chicago alone last year had 646 murders.

[Craig Tucker]

Yeah, I know - but once I saw it I knew that it would be more accurate than the claim of 50,400 deaths per year in the 0-14 age group. Even if you add 10,000 for error, it still casts serious doubt on the veracity of the original statistics.

Well how do you know which statistic to believe, I followed houepigs link and the figure he posted is correct according to the national centre for injury prevention and control.

58,670,959 / 100,000 * 86 = 50,457

[housepig]

Yeah, I know - but once I saw it I knew that it would be more accurate than the claim of 50,400 deaths per year in the 0-14 age group. Even if you add 10,000 for error, it still casts serious doubt on the veracity of the original statistics.

I do not know. Either the trend is more severe than was predicted in 1991, or I'm missing a decimal place somewhere - so please, check my numbers.

Any time you tweak statistics, there's the possibility that you are blowing the data out of proportion. Like I said, I got 86 deaths per 100K, with a 58 million population. That comes out to 50,000 kids. But fine - let's halve it. Let's quarter it. Even if we divide by 4, that's still 35 kids per day dying.

[rhegedus]

If I'm screwing the math, please let me know.

Sorry - I tried a search for unintentional firearm deaths per age group and got this data.



Deaths in the 0-14 age group were 86 out of a population of 58,670,959. That's about 1 in 682,000.

[housepig]

two things before I go...

@ Doggiedaddy - please know that this is not a personal argument - I think we're both capable of a rational discussion, so please don't construe any of this as an attack. (just wanted to be clear).

the other thing - I'm going off to band rehearsal, so I won't be able to check this for a few hours, so I'm going to be interested to see if it's locked by the time I get back.

okay, a third thing - seriously, please - if there's something wrong with my calculations, let me know - it's been a long time since I took Sociology and worked with statistics, so my rust may have screwed me up.

[housepig]

Deaths in the 0-14 age group were 86 out of a population of 58,670,959. That's about 1 in 682,000.

Is that 86, or is it 86 per 100,000? Check the title of the table.

[rhegedus]

I think you took the actual deaths as being out of 100,000 rather than being out of the true population. The data for /100,000 is the crude rate: divide 18,996,762 by 19 (0-4 ages) and you get 0.10 per 100,000.

[Craig Tucker]

I find that figure absolutely staggering, I had no idea it would be so high. Just 1 tragedy like that over here would be headline news. Faced with these sort of statistics I am amazed there is not a greater opposition to gun ownership. We had a couple of incidents over here where people went bezerk shooting innocent people and there was such a public outcry that handgun ownership was outlawed.

what's the murder rate in england? not trying to be offensive, just asking. chicago alone last year had 646 murders.

Just did a quick search and could not find a national figure, I found a table of major cities though.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/153799.stm

[rhegedus]

A quick scan of that data show that none of the cities have a murder rate (all weapons, not just firearms) of 86 per 100,000 for all ages, let alone 0-14.

The data for /100,000 in the stats is found in the crude rate column.

[Craig Tucker]

Yes, I think the way it is worded is misleading. Washington DC has a murder rate of 69.3/100,000 and that is all murders and in the highest ranked murder rate city in the USA.

[0 kewl]

Good question - how did this get started?

Here:

Is it true that UK cops don't carry guns?

[MOVIEGEEK]

How did we get on the subject of deaths caused by a firearm?
This monster from South Carolina drowned her children while they were sleeping.

[housepig]

I think you took the actual deaths as being out of 100,000 rather than being out of the true population. The data for /100,000 is the crude rate: divide 18,996,762 by 19 (0-4 ages) and you get 0.10 per 100,000.

that's absolutely what I did... like I said, Sociology 101 was a while ago

but now (when I get back... still haven't left!) I have to check the intentional stats... because if there's only <800 unintentional deaths, and the earlier graph was estimating >40,000 total deaths, are the other 39,000 all intentional? hmmmm....

[rhegedus]

EDIT - posts are flying thick and fast!

[Conquest10]

How did we get on the subject of deaths caused by a firearm?
This monster from South Carolina drowned her children while they were sleeping.

yeah, and she blamed it on a black man.

[0 kewl]

How did we get on the subject of deaths caused by a firearm?
This monster from South Carolina drowned her children while they were sleeping.

yeah, and she blamed it on a black man.

Yes, reminds me of Bowling For Columbine

[Craig Tucker]

the other thing - I'm going off to band rehearsal

Crossing threads her but could not resist

Quote: And this one time at band camp, I stuck a flute in my pussy.

[Doggiedaddy]

New stats just in.

[Doggiedaddy]

two things before I go...

@ Doggiedaddy - please know that this is not a personal argument - I think we're both capable of a rational discussion, so please don't construe any of this as an attack. (just wanted to be clear).

the other thing - I'm going off to band rehearsal, so I won't be able to check this for a few hours, so I'm going to be interested to see if it's locked by the time I get back.

okay, a third thing - seriously, please - if there's something wrong with my calculations, let me know - it's been a long time since I took Sociology and worked with statistics, so my rust may have screwed me up.

Not at all Housepig, we are always equally entitled to our opinions and I respect yours, I mean that honestly. I do not take any of this personally or as offensive.


It has been said All men were not created equal but Smith and Wesson made them that way.
Half Breed aka Dd

PS: The city dwelling fools is a =snip> from The Great Outdoors with John Candy one of my peacepipe happy fav's. No harm intended.

[tgpo]

I still remember the time while they were looking for the kids. I remember that I had to come straight home, no going out without telling my parents first. All parents around here seems to hold their kids a little tighter. Then when they revealed that she was the killer, it was a kind of slap in the face, imagin how the husband felt. He was deceived just like everyone else. I can't image what he had to go through during all that.