How to place VCD (Ripped DVD) on one 80 min data CD?

[Ales]

Hi!
I'm new to this (as you can see), so please be patient...
I've ripped some DVD to VCD using DVDX. Everything worked fine except the output file was splitted into two (or sometimes three) blocks, so I had to burn the film onto several CDs. That alone wouldn't represent a problem. The problem is that the film sequence ends in the middle of the scene (if you know what I mean...) - and It's also quite annoing to switch between the CD's while watching it.
So my Q is: Is it possible to persuade the program (DVDX) to squeeze the whole movie onto one disk (I don't mind if the quality lowers).

Well... thanks in advance!
Good luck! Ales

[gmatov]

Just to educate yourself on DVDx and bitrate, on the output settings screen, change the bitrate on the left hand pane till the total size on the right hand pane is down to around 800MBs.

Encode a DVD at that rate and see if you can live with the result. If you can, that's all there is to it.

Personally, I always raised my bitrate to fill the second or third disk, ups the video quality considerably.

If you must use just one disk, look at KVCDs. These templates are supposed to fit 2 hours on one 800 MB CD-R.

[DKruskie]

I started making KVCD's a few months back, I've gotten as much as 3 hrs on a cd, looks great on my tv too. Check it out at KVCD



David

[Ales]

Thanks guys! I'll give it a shot.

[poopyhead]

I started making KVCD's a few months back, I've gotten as much as 3 hrs on a cd, looks great on my tv too. Check it out at KVCD

heh...if you check my really old posts from awhile back, you'll see i was one of the biggest opponents of KVCDs....to me, the quality wasn't very good compared with SVCDs. But, compared to VCDs, it was a little bit better.

i also didn't like the fact that kwad named the template after himself since it basically boils down to being an xVCD.

[Thomas Davie]

I initially thought that it was 'just' an XVCD as well. I even created my own XVCD's manually by feeding AVI's of DVD rips into TMPGEnc and just lowering hte bitrate. And I got up to 3 hours of video on a CD. And yes, it played on my DVD player. But it was utter crap.

Kwag has put a lot of work into, and fashioned something pretty impressive out of 'mere' mpegs. I won't defend him any more, since that isn't what the original poster is after, but look for these specific topics on www.kvcd.net

1) Under the DVD2SVCD forum, look for a post called DVD2KVCD, and download matrices.ini and the *second* kvcd_lbr.ini

2) If you haven't already, download DVD2SVCD at www.dvd2svcd.org.

3) Uninstall AviSynth 2.08 that comes with DVD2SVCD, and download/install AviSynth 2.52 from www.avisynth.org (rebooting after every install or uninstall).

4) Back up the default matrices.ini and dvd2svcd.ini, and drop in the ones you've downloaded from www.kvcd.net.

5) Fire up DVD2SVCD, and load the kvcd_lbr.ini file

6) Under the bitrate tab, change all of the disk sizes to 795

7) Under the encoder tab, change the file prediction factor to 0.940

8) Go to the images tab and make sure that 'don't make images' is selected.

Your mileage may vary, but at this point, you'll put in your DVD, go to the conversion tab, hit the button that looks like a CD, select the appropriate a/v streams, and click 'go'. A few hours later, depending on system speed, you'll have one mpeg ~800 meg in size. Go into Nero and create a VCD (make SURE that you deselect VCD compliance). Make a menu if you want, and burn. If your DVD player can handle variable bit rate mpeg-1's, you're in business.

As an example, I've done HP: Chamber of Secrets (2h 40m) on 1CD, and it's good. Again, your mileage may vary. Hope this helps.

Tom

[gmatov]

Poop,
Just out of curiousity, if Ralph had developed the KWAG template instead, what would you have suggested he name it? Fred's template? Jojo's template? Poop's template?
Cecilio has one he calls Cecilio's , Sefy has Sefy's guide. What should they be named, Guide 1, guide 2, guide3? I mean, you gotta differentiate between them. How would you prefer they do that?
It seems all you want to do is say they learned it here, so they should call it something like DVDRhelp guide number 20167. Lotta help that would be. Lay off.
Someone comes up with a simplified method, check it out, try it, don't just bitch that they got it here, they got no right to put their name on it.

[poopyhead]

Poop,
Just out of curiousity, if Ralph had developed the KWAG template instead, what would you have suggested he name it? Fred's template? Jojo's template? Poop's template?

still new here, eh?

anywayz, by calling it KVCD, he's saying it's a standard format... i.e. on the same level as VCD, CVD, and SVCD or even DVD. Until we see a dvd player that claims it supports "KVCD" playback, it should just be included under the umbrella of non-standard, compliant xVCDs and xSVCDs.

kwad can call it kwad's template (i.e. kwad's tmpgenc template...as what most ppl do) however, he basically has the audacity to make it seem that KVCD is a standard, established format.

i can assure you, it is not.

Guides are different ... there is no defined format. They are informal, similar to the various tmpgenc templates out there.

[kwag]

anywayz, by calling it KVCD, he's saying it's a standard format... i.e. on the same level as VCD, CVD, and SVCD or even DVD.

It's not a standard, because it's not embraced by the "Standard Industry". As far as being a "format", it is, because as a U.S. corporation, with all the power to design and manufacture just about anything you could imagine ( you should see our Articles of Incorporation ), we clearly defined the KVCD official specifications: http://www.kvcd.net/e107/article.php?21.255
Whether the industry ever looks into it, that has yet to be seen. Personally, I don't care Just like Linux, open source, etc. We don't care if the "Standard people" use it or not. We use it, and we know the advantage. So I am happy, because I enjoy higher video quality than the "standard" methods
As for being an "XVCD" format, well, we've been through this before. Could you tell me then if a KVCD specifications MPEG-1 or MPEG-2 is feeded through a microwave radio, and uploaded via radio links to a broadcast satellite Or a KVCD low bitrate streamed through the Internet Tell me: Where is the XVCD Because the "X" is only when you put an MPEG file on a (X)VCD disk format layout.

-kwag

[SatStorm]

Kwag is a true enthusiast of this scene. He gathered, tested and share his results about encoding to mpeg with the others. He offer conclusions to people ready to "invest" time exploring x(S)VCDs. Or, in another words. people ready to see how flexible their players are.
Also, he is very helpfull to others. And, he spents much time on what he is doing.

Where are the "problems" with Kwag?

- Basicly he once claimed that his solutions were standards. Well, those solutions ain't standards, it was a fair compatible xVCD solutions at first, xCVD/xSVCD solutions later and with DVD, I don't know I don't test his solution on this subject! 1/2 D1 DVD is OK for my needs. This "claim" was his bigest "marketing" mistake untill today.

- He basilcy use TMPGenc for his tests, and that's OK 'cause I'm a TMPGenc fan myself. The problem with this encoder, is that always changes from version to version, so different results occure from the same settings, if those are tested to a later / before version. For example, the perfect template of TMPGenc 2.53 is totally useless on the current version....
Basicly, if TMPGenc followed the theory, many of Kwag's encoding tweeks, methods and presets, won't needed at all. For me Kwag's solutions are based to the fact that TMPGenc and other software are not "perfect" so he found alternative "roots" to do things, even in an - X - way (non standard that is).

- He had a latino temper, which I surrely understand 'cause I have a mediterenian temper myself. This temper is a problem for North Europeans and US users. I know, I receive plenty emails myself for my temper....

- And a final reason, not mention very often: He manage in a very short time, to get a "name" in this scene. Many people work really hard to get a name in any internet scene, years after years. This "name" can be used in the "real" non internet world, as a passport to many things, jobs included. When some of those "hard workers" see someone pop up from nowhere and succeed fast what they dream off, well... They pissed off. That's what happened with Kwag. He was the man of the day, when others tried to manage that were not. Combine this with the fact that he offered "non standard" solutions, and you can understand that he was also an easy victim for accusations of any kind. Well, that helped him became even more known in this scene and today he is a "name" inbetween the enthusiasts of this hobby. He can use that, those who accussed him they can't! Let's that teach them something....

The irony is that a "Kwag"-like solution, years before were produced by some spanish guys, the so called "CVCD" format. Even programs to automate the encoding were appeared at the time, very alike the ones Kwag offers from his site. Also, sefy presented the "SeVCD" xVCD solution, which remains among the highest compatible xVCDs, with really good results. But non of this used wide today, only Kwag has a share in the scene. Well, that means something I think. And it isn't because he state lies, or whatever. I believe it is because people test his solutions and likes them. And he also knows how to support his presence in the scene.
Personally, I like him.

PS: This CQ filesize detection program of his, actually works! Not 100% accurate yet, but it works! It is a start!

[poopyhead]

As for being an "XVCD" format, well, we've been through this before. Could you tell me then if a KVCD specifications MPEG-1 or MPEG-2 is feeded through a microwave radio, and uploaded via radio links to a broadcast satellite Or a KVCD low bitrate streamed through the Internet Tell me: Where is the XVCD Because the "X" is only when you put an MPEG file on a (X)VCD disk format layout.
-kwag

whether you claim that kVCD is its own format, it still falls within the definition of xVCD, so long as it is not its own standard.

https://www.videohelp.com/xvcd.htm

x(S)VCD is any MPEG1(2) that is not within (S)VCD standard, but still burned as (S)VCD.

so, you wanna make kvcd your own separate little format:

1) make it standard...and recognized as such .... coming up with your articles of incorporation means nothing... i can do the exact same thing and make a P00PVCD, but that doesn't make it my own format because no standard body recognizes it.

2) make the major burning software provide a KVCD burning template (i.e rather than rely on nero's (S)VCD burning template) if indeed KVCD isn't just a x(S)VCD.

-------

i'm not trying to underscore how much hard work you put into it or it's popularity. my personal opinion of its quality does not affect the fact that any amount of hard work or popularity of kVCD can't be compared to standards like VCD, SVCD, and DVD, with enormous amount of R&D and popularity behind them. so, don't try to put KVCD at the same level is those standard formats, as you seemingly try to do.

[Thomas Davie]

[quote="poopyheadmy personal opinion of its quality does not affect the fact that any amount of hard work or popularity of kVCD can't be compared to standards like VCD, SVCD, and DVD, with enormous amount of R&D and popularity behind them. so, don't try to put KVCD at the same level is those standard formats, as you seemingly try to do.[/quote]


Ah what the heck

1) Anything can always be compared to anything else. Always. If you tell me it can't, you've just proven that it can by attempting to subjectively negate my judgement. (analytic synthetic dichotomy in linguistic philosophy in a roughly argued sense).

2) KVCD is better than VCD. This is an opinion of mine, and it is shared by a lot of other people. Still, numers or popularity do not equate to the truth; however, if you would wish to claim the contrary, not too many people would believe you.

3) My girlfriend bought 6000 blank CDR's for something like 0.1$ Cdn each. So, for 10 measly cents, I can protect my whatever dollar investment when I buy far more expensive DVD

You know, it seems to me as if *I* benefit from the work that Kwag has done. Would I pay for it if I had to. Well, yeah probably. I'm sure as hell glad that his work is free though.

Now, I doubt that as many people use KVCD as do VCD or SVCD, but....that doesn't mean anything.

And yeah, I'm a newbie on this board. So what

Tom

[poopyhead]

2) KVCD is better than VCD. This is an opinion of mine, and it is shared by a lot of other people. Still, numers or popularity do not equate to the truth; however, if you would wish to claim the contrary, not too many people would believe you.

again, i'm not arguing about KVCD quality vs. VCD quality. that has already been done. personally, in terms of quality, i was comparing KVCD to SVCD.

anywayz, i'm comparing KVCD vs. VCD in terms of a standard format, irregardless of the quality. if kwag can make his KVCD look exactly like a DVD, but have VCD filesizes, that would be great, but....that still doesn't erase the fact it's not a standard format. the reason i would put kVCD as a xVCD because kVCD doesn't belong by itself. there is no kVCD burning template. there is no DVD player claiming to support kVCD, and there's prolly no difference between xVCD ompatibility and kVCD compatibility because they are treated the same way. kVCD may be light years ahead of VCD in terms of quality, but it is NOT standard and certainly is not recognized as one. kwag seems to think it is.

rather than naming it "kwag's xVCD", kwag went ahead and named it "kVCD" suggesting it was a standard format. until it is so, that naming is totally inaccurate.

[SatStorm]

In short terms:
If he said that KVCD is an xVCD, fair compatible with DVD Standalones, nobody could blame him for anything. The opposite: He would have much more support than he has today.

As I said, that was his bigest "marketing" mistake....

Nobody can blame him for his hard work and hard testing. Nobody can blame him because he supports his ideas. Nobody can blame him for presenting a good -x- solution.

But you can easily blame him for "misleading".

[poopyhead]

@SatStorm,

i'm actually surprised by Kwag naming kVCD after himself, if he really wanted it to be considered a format, let alone standard. there is no standard format named after the person, ppl, and/or company that created them. they are named for what they are...or are supposed to be.

imagine instead of VCD, we have WangChungCD (btw, i'm asian)....or instead of DVD-R..we have DVDForum-R....etc

it would've been more appropriate if kwag named his "format" something like extendedVCD or enhancedVCD....i'm sure both are taken...but something similar

[SatStorm]

He is not the only one doing this!
Sefy for example has SeVCD (Sefy's Enchance VCD) and SxVCD (Sefy's eXtra VCD) - I don't remember that correct, sorry sefy!.

With the same logic, KVCD is Kwag's VCD.

When I shall publish templates myself for myself, I gonna call them SatStorm's xCVD or SxCVD for short.

It isn't the name he use for his xVCDs, but what he states for his xVCDs !

From his homepage:

----------------------------------

What is KVCD?
KVCD is a modification to the standard MPEG-1 and MPEG-2 GOP structure and Quantization Matrix. It enables you to create over 120 minutes of near DVD quality video, depending on your material, on a single 80 minute CD- R/CD-RW. We have published these specifications as KVCDx3, our official resolution, which produce 528x480 (NTSC) and 528x576 (PAL) MPEG-1 variable bit rate video, from 64Kbps to 3,000Kbps. Using a resolution of 352x240 (NTSC) or 352x288 (PAL), it's possible to encode video up to ~360 minutes of near VCD quality on a single 80 minute CD-R. The mpeg files created will play back in most modern standalone DVD players. You must burn the mpeg files as non-standard VCD with Nero or VCDEasy. Please join our FORUMS for questions and information. KVCD Official Specification are posted on the left panel.

---------------------------------

If he simply added the phrase "KVCD is a form of xVCD" and change the first line to something like:

"KVCD is a form of xVCD. It modifies the standard MPEG-1 and MPEG-2 GOP structure and Quantization Matrix ......"

NOBODY would have a problem with him.

But he don't do this. He said the true in a Minbary way (Babylon 5 fans can understand ....).


The bottom line, is that when someone reads the above, he don't know that he creates a xVCD. He feels that he made a "clever", "Smart", "Better" VCD!
This is the problem for me, and not that he named his templates after his name!

[Stevis2002]

As a lot of you are bitchin about kwag and his self-proclaimed format, i thought i'd give my opinion. Why shouldn't he name it the way he has as he put in the hours to get it right. I think it's better than both VCD and SVCD, (nbot by much for the latter). With the right guide, the KVCD "format" is very good and as it is so good, and as so many people seem to agree with me, then maybe they should consider recognising it?
Who's to say!

[SatStorm]

So you say, that if I claim that I'm the president of US and many people agree with me because of their reasons, back in the US "... maybe they should consider recognising it?"

[Sefy]

@Stevis2002,

I Think the main issue here isn't about Quality or what kind of Format it is, it's about calling something that it is not, and that would be a Standard 8)

My Templates are not a Standard, they are an Enhanced/Extended versions of a Standard that already exists, weather it's good or bad is for each person to decide on their own, this isn't about quality comparison.

A Standard is not something you and me can "make" since we don't really have an effect in the wide world. Standard is something that is being made by large companies which control the market (Pioneer, Philips, Toshiba, Sony and others).

So VCD/SVCD/CVD/DVD are Standards (propably a few more that I missed)
And SeVCD/SxVCD/kVCD are NOT standards but modifications of some sort to existing standards, based on either MPEG1 or MPEG2 which are a Format!

I Hope this clarifies the whole issue and we can put it behind us

[kwag]

We've never stated that KVCD is a "Standard". It can't be more clear what we specify
From our page:

KVCD Official Specifications: ( Audio specifications are not defined )

The core of KVCD is a propietary modification to the standard MPEG-1 and MPEG-2 Quantization Matrix. The official KVCD resolution is 528x480( 576 ). This is labeled KVCDx3. Also 544x480( 576 ) is defined as an alternate resolution, labeled KVCDx3A.
The KVCD "Notch" Quantization matrix may be used on any hardware or software encoder capable of accepting custom tailored matrixes.
It is optimized for space/quality, and has also been optimized to reduce visible DCT blocks on low lit/dark scenes. 
The KVCD "Notch" Quantization Matrix is Copyright (c) 2002, 2003 of Softronex Corporation. It may be used freely on any product, but it must be clearly stated that the matrix in use is "KVCD "Notch" Quantization Matrix". There are no other restrictions on it's use.

Here is the byte code for the KVCD "Notch" Quantization Matrix:

Intra: 
8 9 12 22 26 27 29 34
9 10 14 26 27 29 34 37
12 14 18 27 29 34 37 38
22 26 27 31 36 37 38 40
26 27 29 36 39 38 40 48
27 29 34 37 38 40 48 58
29 34 37 38 40 48 58 69
34 37 38 40 48 58 69 79
NonIntra: 
16 18 20 22 24 26 28 30
18 20 22 24 26 28 30 32
20 22 24 26 28 30 32 34
22 24 26 30 32 32 34 36
24 26 28 32 34 34 36 38
26 28 30 32 34 36 38 40
28 30 32 34 36 38 42 42
30 32 34 36 38 40 42 44


Optional Recommendations:

For optimal encoding on natural material ( movies, new computer generated films ), we recommend to match the KVCD "Notch" Quantization Matrix with a maximum GOP size of 24 pictures for NTSCFilm (23.976fps), 25 pictures for PAL (25fps) or 30 pictures for NTSC (29.97fps).
For animation, old cartoons, etc., we recommend a maximum GOP size of 12 pictures for NTSCFilm (23.973fps), 15 pictures for PAL (25fps) and 18 pictures for NTSC (29.97fps).
It's also recommended to set "Scene change detection", if the encoder permits.
Also, use open GOP.
There are no preferences as to the type of encoding ( CQ, CQ_VBR, X-PASS, etc. ). Use the best mode that your encoder can produce.
Suggested bitrates are a minimum of 64Kbps and a maximum of 3,000Kbps.
For MPEG-1 and MPEG-2 in this bitrate range, a DC component precision of 8 bits is recommended.

DVD Compliance:

For DVD compliant MPEG files, select the standard DVD parameters for your encoder, but change (modify, patch, etc.) the matrix on your encoder to use the KVCD "Notch" Quantization Matrix. This will enable play times of ~6 hours on a 4.7GB DVD(+-)R(W) media at a standard resolution of 720x480(576 ) Full D-1, Wide Screen encodes, or ~10 hours at a resolution of 352x480( 576 ) Half D-1.

( Specifications subject to change without notice )
Copyright© 2002, 2003 Softronex Corporation. All Rights Reserved.

As you can see, there's no "Standard" being mentioned anywhere. I hope this clears all doubts, and puts a cork on the mouth of people saying that we say KVCD is a "Standard". It's not ( yet )
Also, it's not a "Template", as some keep insisting

-kwag

[Sefy]

I Believe coming from the Creator's Mouth should clear all this Standard Shmandart out of the way

[poopyhead]

He is not the only one doing this!
Sefy for example has SeVCD (Sefy's Enchance VCD) and SxVCD (Sefy's eXtra VCD) - I don't remember that correct, sorry sefy!.

Sefy doesn't claim his templates to be on the same level as VCD, SVCD, CVD, and DVD. Sefy clearly points out that his templates are xVCDs or xSVCDs.

-------------

however, kwag still insists that his kVCD isn't a xVCD or xSVCD. he somehow thinks that his kVCD is a completely independent format.

if that's what he claims, he needs to back it up. have a formal name for his separate format. he "hopefully" wants it to be standard...well, established formats, let alone standard, aren't named after the ppl who created them.

as i pointed out earlier, established formats...i.e. not just -X- of something have formal names that denote what they are..or are supposed to be....not just named WangChungCD. we don't see China Recording Standards Committee putting its name all over SVCD. this puts some distance between the format and its creators.

if all kwag wants is fame, then go ahead and put your name to your so-called format, but don't expect it to be considered anymore than x(S)VCD.

[kwag]

we don't see China Recording Standards Committee putting its name all over SVCD. this puts some distance between the format and its creators.

Wankel Rotary Combustion Engines - By Dr. Ing. Felix Heinrich Wankel (1902-1988)
Sinclair Computers - Sir Clive Sinclair
Ashton-Tate Corporation. DBASE, etc.
Eiffel Tower - Gustave Eiffel
Coors Light - Adolph Coors

And I could go on and on and on, but you get the idea, and your statement are not valid (as usual)

if all kwag wants is fame, then go ahead and put your name to your so-called format, but don't expect it to be considered anymore than x(S)VCD.

I guess you that you just will never accept the facts. So then, for you, Direct TV transmits X-MPEG-2. Cable companies transmit X-MPEG--2, and satellite providers (C Band) transmit DVB-X-MPEG-2
Oh, and then CNN transmits X-VideoPhone.

But then, it's probably that you just like the XXX a lot, and you just can't really get in your head that an MPEG-1 or MPEG-2 stream is not an (X)VCD
Or how about this: I stream a KVCD encoded MPEG 1 video from my computer over the internet, and you view it on Mediaplayer. Tell me: where's the X there, ah

-kwag

[poopyhead]

Wankel Rotary Combustion Engines - By Dr. Ing. Felix Heinrich Wankel (1902-1988)
Sinclair Computers - Sir Clive Sinclair
Ashton-Tate Corporation. DBASE, etc.
Eiffel Tower - Gustave Eiffel
Coors Light - Adolph Coors

again, you're wrong..and very wrong. those are NOT video formats are they? name a standard video format that is named after the person who came up with it.

I guess you that you just will never accept the facts. So then, for you, Direct TV transmits X-MPEG-2. Cable companies transmit X-MPEG--2, and satellite providers (C Band) transmit DVB-X-MPEG-2
Oh, and then CNN transmits X-VideoPhone.

still not getting it huh?

https://www.videohelp.com/xvcd.htm

XVCD stands for eXtendedVCD. XVCD has same features as VCD but it is possible to use higher bitrates and higher resolution to get higher video quality. XVCD is basicly everything that uses MPEG1 video, is not within the VCD standard and burnt in "VCD"-Mode.

there's NO TRANSMITTING anywhere in that definition. convince nero, or any other burning software, of the need to have a separate KVCD burning template...then it might be considered.

you need to narrow your comparisons.

[kwag]

XVCD is basicly everything that uses MPEG1 video, is not within the VCD standard and burnt in "VCD"-Mode.

I can't believe what I read
MPEG-1 was defined even before VCDs were around. My friend, you should go read a book on MPEG-1/2 ( as I have). I suggest "Video Demystified", where it clearly explains MPEG-1 and MPEG-2, and there's no mention of VCD. MPEG-1 is not tied to VCDs in any way, so get your facts straight before saying nonesense

there's NO TRANSMITTING anywhere in that definition. convince nero, or any other burning software, of the need to have a separate KVCD burning template...then it might be considered.

you need to narrow your comparisons.

No, you need to broaden your mind kiddo

-kwag

[poopyhead]

@kwag,

then you need to convince the ppl at vcdhelp.com who wrote that definition of x(S)VCD that they're incorrect. that's a direct quote from this website.

https://www.videohelp.com/xvcd.htm

XVCD is basicly everything that uses MPEG1 video, is not within the VCD standard and burnt in "VCD"-Mode.

>>>> DIRECT QUOTE FROM THIS WEBSITE...NOT MY DEFINITION. <<<<

from the looks of it...there are 3 requirements:

1) MPEG1 video
2) not within VCD standard
3) burnt in "VCD" mode

other MPEG1 video may not fall into all 3 requirements for xVCD (principly not all MPEG1 are burned in "VCD" mode), but kVCD DOES. I never said all MPEG1 has to be VCD or xVCD. all 3 of the requirements needs to be meet, which kVCD clearly does.

-------------------

so again, bottom line: if you burn your kVCD using the (S)VCD template, you still can't get away from the fact that you are creating x(S)VCDs.

there's no way around it...if kVCD is indeed so different, then it would require its own burning template....just like VCD,SVCD, and DVD each require its own burning template. is kVCD on that list? will it ever be..heh.

i'm sure nero is dying to create a template just for you and kVCD.

[kwag]

@kwag,

then you need to convince the ppl at vcdhelp.com who wrote that definition of x(S)VCD that they're incorrect. that's a direct quote from this website.

vcdhelp never wrote (S)VCD definitions
They were already written far before vcdhelp ever existed

but again, bottom line: if you burn your kVCD using the (S)VCD template, you still can't get away from the fact that you are creating x(S)VCDs.

That's right. It's a XVCD or XSVCD, but that is the disk format, even though the MPEG-1 or MPEG-2 was encoded with KVCD parameters. So it's a KVCD encapsulated (in a carrier) which is an XVCD or XSVCD, in this case
However, when a KVCD MPEG-1 is streamed over any medium, other than put on a CD-R, there's no XVCD anywhere. Is that so hard for you to understand

there's no way around it...if kVCD is indeed so different, then it would require its own burning template....just like VCD,SVCD, and DVD each require its own burning template. is kVCD on that list? will it ever be..heh.

Maybe, maybe not. But then, there's also SuperBit, which is defined as a format (just like we defined KVCD), and it's still MPEG-2 on a DVD. So there's your best example

-kwag

[Sefy]

Ok, I think this is enough, lets not turn this into another blocked topic, cause i'm quite sure it will get blocked. It's going no where, no one agrees, so lets agree on that. ok people ? don't make the Moderators block this again, it's been covered in the past and no one agreed and it just made a bad mood

[poopyhead]

But then, there's also SuperBit, which is defined as a format (just like we defined KVCD), and it's still MPEG-2 on a DVD. So there's your best example

superbit isn't a standard format...it's more of a marketing gimmick than anything else. it's still no different than any DVD...just advertised as using higher bitrate digital transfer....

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carrier??? once you burn your kVCD as a xVCD, you loose any separate identity that kVCD has. all the (S)VCD file, disc structure is present and required. until you can get a dvd player to play kVCD separately, without being burn as a x(S)VCD, there is NO difference. kVCD is required to be a x(S)VCD in order to be played on dvd players.... as we all know, there is NO dvd player on the market that claims support for kvcd.

otherwise, if the kVCD .mpg file is streamed...then it can be whatever it wants. of course though, how many kVCD users "stream" the files, rather than burn as x(S)VCD.

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btw, you implying that vcdhelp.com is wrong about x(S)VCD definitions... they just made it up as they see fit? i didn't add anything to it..and it wasn't taken out of context...copied as is... you negating vcdhelp's definition? what other vcdhelp.com's info is wrong, according to you? they didn't come up with VCD standards...so are they wrong in the definition of a standard, compliant VCD as well??? you tell me...

[kwag]

I never said vcdhelp specs are wrong. I said the specs were written far before vcdhelp existed.

@moderators,

You may close this thread, as it's useless to make someone with a very narrow mind to understand some basic principles, and now is trying to twist words
I'm out of this thread, and probably of this site too

@poopyhead,
It's good you stay here, as I believe you fit real well on "standards", which never go beyond technical breakthroughs as we have done

If anyone is interested in more advanced video conversion topics and innovations, you are welcome to KVCD.Net.

@baldrick,
You may delete my user name, as I have no plans to return here. It's really very sad to see so many close minded people, that just never want to visualize different things and ideas.

sayonara, and signing off.
-kwag