Format Wars: + or - ?

[Gregg]

I'll tell you this:
I have a dual format burner and my DVD player plays everything I throw in it so I don't care wich format is what!

Enjoy!

[ejai]

If more people had the opportunity to work with the Dvd-Ram format they would understand why those of us who use it, love it. The timeslip feature alone is a keeper. The dvd-ram disk reminds me of a removable hard drive with added features.

Hopefully this format is here to stay.

[jamawass]

Fortunately I have a dual format burner pioneer dvr-a06. My dvd player reads +r, -r. and +rw but not -rw. So I burn movies I wanna keep on -r and ones I don't on +rw.

[coyote]

Ill chime in with the blending idea.....This is not a war like beta vs vhs where not only was the technology different...but the tapes wouldnt even fit in the machines.

Remember the 56k modem war? There were 2 competing standards then. What eventually happened? The standards merged and now all 56k modems work on the same principle. Neither one of them won....they blended together because that's what the market place demanded.

The same is happening here

[next]

Sigh...

Your "n=1" experience doesn't really mean anything. You can't make that interpretation at all. For instance, the majority of DVD players created before the existence of DVD+R still play it. Does that mean that the + Alliance influenced those manufacturers backwards through time?

In any case, most new DVD players handle both standard properly. If you read the CDLab's survey, you'll see that in general, however, particularly for older players, DVD-R is probably a little bit better supported.

Regards.

Sigh as well. Well said.

The true nit here is that it seems that everybody is attempting to justify their purchase. Hard earned dollars yes. And it appears that everybody regardless of their choice made a good decision. Flame wars - OFF

But my quesion here is how did this wind up in the DVD-Recorders forum? It's everywhere!

[mrlar]

The -R is better right now -- for reasons having nothing to do with the format.

+R discs are much higher in price.
+R discs are higher in price, and slower (2.4x +R discs cost more than 4x -R discs).

For computer drives, I have a multi-format Sony where I can use either type. It's no surprised I've never used a +R except to experiment with once in the beginning. Why should I pay more for slower discs? In the end when you have a finalized disc, there's no real difference between a - and a + disc.

For standalone decks, through no fault of the format, the + decks are much worse than the decks made by companies supporting the - format (the +R Magnavox/Philips have HORRIBLE video quality, and the +R Apex is junky. The -R Sharp, Sony, and Panasonics are all excellent).
A sidenote: the new "multi-format" Sony standalone will *NOT* support +R. It will support -R, -RW, and +RW, but *NOT* +R.

I don't want to see flaming, and if you're happy with +R, great. But from where I stand, as someone who can use either one (with my multiformat Sony computer drives), I always buy the -R. Cheaper, faster, better. See no reason to get +R.

Just something to think about.

PS: This is the case both at "in store" locations (CompUSA, Frys, Circuit City, etc) as well as the "bulk" suppliers (where I buy mine). If you go into a store and compare a 10 pack (or whatever) of -Rs and +Rs from the same company, the +R will always be more. It gets even worse when you buy them from the bulk companies. I buy my discs from RIMA.COM, and get the Princo printable 4x speed DVD-Rs for $1 each in a 50pk (they work great). So why should I pay a lot more for a slower (2.4x) +R blank when I can get a faster -R (4x speed) blank that works great at a much cheaper price?

MrLar

[RabidDog]

Quote " Does that mean that the + Alliance influenced those manufacturers backwards through time"
unqoute

AT LAst someone else has noticed this!! we must combine to defeat the dark forces.

[next]

Quote " Does that mean that the + Alliance influenced those manufacturers backwards through time"
unqoute

AT LAst someone else has noticed this!! we must combine to defeat the dark forces.

Sigh again.

It's moot in my opinion. You 'get it' too.

[next]

One more time - how in the world did this wind up in the DVD-Recorders forum.

Media forum perhaps?

[indolikaa]

Anyone? Anyone?

[next]

Allow me to start.

I like both formats. I see no particular advantage of one format over the other. I use both -R and +R for video and data alike. But here's my feelings about the formats.

It doesn't matter which format 'wins' this civil war. As DVD evolves it is likely that manufacturers will continue to support and integrate both formats. Regardless of what happens, there's an easy solution to this problem. Back up your media files!

I use a digital tape drive to backup everthing I create and burn to DVD or CD. So if down the road we lose compatibility with a particular format, I just find the archived files and reburn them to the 'compatible' media.

I would like to see this thread remain constructive and flame-free. I hope others that may post will keep this thread civil.

Okay....how'd we get here.

[next]

Anyone? Anyone?

I simply have to quote to carry it to the next page.

No yellows please moderators.

[indolikaa]

No bookings on the pitch this evening. Good show. :P

You lost me, next. Your quoted material was my response to the original thread posting...

[next]

Wow! This would be a record for a format war thread. Fourteen posts and no bloodshed...

I give.

[overloaded_ide]

Question,

When burning to either format, does the computer DVD drive not read both! So if you were to burn to one format and it was dropped dead like BETA, then just put the disk in the computer and copy to the other format then! Not any difference in the files on the disk right, just the disks.

Drives are cheap and getting better and cheaper! Yes $150 -$200 is still a ton of money to most people even me

But my thought was if -r is as compatible or more so than +r why even bother with a +r or dual format drive. Since I bought my drive earlier this year (a 2x) I can now buy a 4x for less! I bought 1x disks then, now I can get 4x for nearly the same price it looks like. Checking a place now, and even printables at that.

So in 2-5 yrs or more, computers and burners will be so fast and cheap and cheap disks, just use the loser format (if there is one and you got it) as an archive disk and copy it to the wining format then. Should cost about a quarter for a 12x disk by then just like cds have gotten so fast and cheap!

So for me, the only real question is what will play in the greatest number of settop players? I want to watch my disks when I visit friends and relatives, on thier players! Not carry my own around to make sure I have the correct one for the type disks I burned

Right now it looks like -r is supposed to be the most likely to play when I travel in whatever player is there when I arrive, acording to what I have read 90%.

This is the reason I decided to get only a -r burner instead of a dual format burner. I don't mind having lots of drives installed in a tower case. I kinda like it, and if the time comes I need to buy a +r burner, well the cost has dropped and speed rose, and I come out ahead considering the extra money it would have cost at the time I bought a -r only.

In the end, I will have two complete drives for the cost of one dual format drive. And with two drives I beleave I can copy from one to the other whereas with one dual format drive I cannot do a direct copy!

SO I would think the best format is what ever works for you now, and win or lose, as long as the disk will work in a computer latter, burn to what ever exist then. Perhaps a Blueray disk and stick 5 of your + or - disks on that

Just my thoughts.

[next]

Question,

When burning to either format, does the computer DVD drive not read both! So if you were to burn to one format and it was dropped dead like BETA, then just put the disk in the computer and copy to the other format then! Not any difference in the files on the disk right, just the disks.

Drives are cheap and getting better and cheaper! Yes $150 -$200 is still a ton of money to most people even me

But my thought was if -r is as compatible or more so than +r why even bother with a +r or dual format drive. Since I bought my drive earlier this year (a 2x) I can now buy a 4x for less! I bought 1x disks then, now I can get 4x for nearly the same price it looks like. Checking a place now, and even printables at that.

So in 2-5 yrs or more, computers and burners will be so fast and cheap and cheap disks, just use the loser format (if there is one and you got it) as an archive disk and copy it to the wining format then. Should cost about a quarter for a 12x disk by then just like cds have gotten so fast and cheap!

So for me, the only real question is what will play in the greatest number of settop players? I want to watch my disks when I visit friends and relatives, on thier players! Not carry my own around to make sure I have the correct one for the type disks I burned

Right now it looks like -r is supposed to be the most likely to play when I travel in whatever player is there when I arrive, acording to what I have read 90%.

This is the reason I decided to get only a -r burner instead of a dual format burner. I don't mind having lots of drives installed in a tower case. I kinda like it, and if the time comes I need to buy a +r burner, well the cost has dropped and speed rose, and I come out ahead considering the extra money it would have cost at the time I bought a -r only.

In the end, I will have two complete drives for the cost of one dual format drive. And with two drives I beleave I can copy from one to the other whereas with one dual format drive I cannot do a direct copy!

SO I would think the best format is what ever works for you now, and win or lose, as long as the disk will work in a computer latter, burn to what ever exist then. Perhaps a Blueray disk and stick 5 of your + or - disks on that

Just my thoughts.

Well said.

[MrKGB]

I think the real winner will be a format, support of which will be built into BIOS, so it can be used as a WRITABLE floppy.
When this will happen, it will be the last day of the floppy and all other DVD and CD formats.
3.5" floppy is long time due for replacement....

[overloaded_ide]

MrKGB

I don't think so.
How long have we had CD's? the exact same thing as far as for the purpose of as you speak, they just hold less. While I think it's a good idea, I just don't think it's ever gonna happen. I mean for awhile we had 1 gig drives and 650 meg cd's, but they never got used on a wide scale as a removeable hard drive
2 Disks equalled one drive and much much cheaper! I did, and still do to a point, use Cd rw as a removable hardrive dedicated to specific things.
But even with packet software that claims to let you use them same as a floppie, many programs will not for example use a cd for recovery disks!
Really dumb to need 7 floppies or even one when you have a bootable cd drive! And these are even new programs, not 5 yrs old, more like 6 months or 1 yr!

Also some people are still even using ZIP drives, Might be good for some things, I never had one, but you cannot tranport the data like a cd rw! You have to have a zip drive werever you go, and how many people have those compared to CD drives?
Cds are cheaper than DVDs and actually floppies I think, but I bought a retail Hard drive not long ago and it had FLOPPIE disk for the software that came with it. I think my lan card came with 2 floppies or more, windows floppie and Linux floppie.

Also there is the fact that by the time it started getting popular we would have some other format again, like blue ray! By the time that drops in price where the average person can use it wide spread there will be something else. Maybe red/green ray that can write once to a disk to make it permanant or us the other ray to write rewriteable eraseable to the same red/green ray disk!

Now THAT would be a great format! You have ONE type disk, if you need to give a copy of something you do not want changed the disk is written as a write once with red ray. If you need to modifie it latter you could write the disks as RW with green ray. No need to stock - r -rw +r +rw CD-r CD-rw etc...
Just one disk for everything!

[energy80s]

I bought a minus R drive because it's the most compatible at the moment and I know that when proper Blue Laser discs become commonplace, all I'll have to do is copy my files across from one disc to another - no re-encoding, no quality loss.

[PlasticDVDr]

I got a +rw drive for the added features that -r doesn't have.
The stores i've been to carry mostly +rw and -r/+r drives... not to many
-r drives around. Plus the +R discs cost the same as -R.

People keep saying the companies like Sony, HP, etc.. release new computers with DVD-r drives so it must be better, but remember, most of these comps are budget machines...

[energy80s]

People keep saying the companies like Sony, HP, etc.. release new computers with DVD-r drives so it must be better, but remember, most of these comps are budget machines...

Are you joking?? Brand named machines are always much more expensive than self-builds and usually a lot less configurable.

[coyote]

I like the 5 1/4 inch floppy

[tompika]

I bought a minus R drive because it's the most compatible at the moment and I know that when proper Blue Laser discs become commonplace, all I'll have to do is copy my files across from one disc to another - no re-encoding, no quality loss.

So you're saying I'm gonna have to reencode and get quality loss when copying my DVD+R/Ws to the next generation media (blue-anything)

[rmhartman]

One more time - how in the world did this wind up in the DVD-Recorders forum.

Media forum perhaps?

It "wound up" here because I was trying to determine which DVD-recorder (not computer DVD-drive) to buy.

btw: I ended up w/ a Panasonic.

[donpedro]

BTW: Sony makes recorder that can use both + and - media