Format Wars: + or - ?

[rmhartman]

According to the propoganda ... er FAQ ... on DVDPlusRW.org the DVD+ formats were "designed to be compatible" w/ standard DVD format (and hence playable on most regular DVD players) while the DVD- formats had compatability added on.

If true, this is a strong reason to favor + over - ... but is this true? Do the DVD- discs play on fewer standard players? What other considerations are there to the + vs. - choice? And ... what about Naomi?

[marvel2020]

Oh Damb, here we go again

[indolikaa]

Allow me to start.

I like both formats. I see no particular advantage of one format over the other. I use both -R and +R for video and data alike. But here's my feelings about the formats.

It doesn't matter which format 'wins' this civil war. As DVD evolves it is likely that manufacturers will continue to support and integrate both formats. Regardless of what happens, there's an easy solution to this problem. Back up your media files!

I use a digital tape drive to backup everthing I create and burn to DVD or CD. So if down the road we lose compatibility with a particular format, I just find the archived files and reburn them to the 'compatible' media.

I would like to see this thread remain constructive and flame-free. I hope others that may post will keep this thread civil.

[housepig]

well, according to the info here:

https://www.videohelp.com/dvd

-R is compatible with about 90% of existing players, while +R is destined to cause it's adopters to burn in an everlasting lake of fire, while being poked in the eye with smelly sneakers by pus-ridden babboons.

..oh, wait.. I misread. scratch everything after "+R is" in that paragraph, and insert "compatible with about 85% of existing players".

[LanEvo7]

Most of that stuff on the +R website is propaganda. So just go with whatever format you like.

[PhilipL]

Withdrawn

[indolikaa]

Do you really think that DVD-R and DVD-RW were not made to be compatible with the DVD format but just happened by chance to work?

Yes.

[thayne]

WHo cares? these "format War" posts are stupid....

[PhilipL]

Withdrawn

[TechieMan]

My first POST....Yippeeeee

anyway...

wait till Blue-Ray and then there shall be more confusion!!! :P

[RAAGAAman]

Actually if you take out the drives(Sony) that write the "DVD+R" book code the compatibility for +R is equal or greater than -R. Anyway 97% vs 86%. Not that big a deal to me.

RG

[timmmay]

My first POST....Yippeeeee

anyway...

wait till Blue-Ray and then there shall be more confusion!!! :P

you'll still be confused 'coz they'll come out with blue-ray and blue+ray!

[tompika]

Actually if you take out the drives(Sony) that write the "DVD+R" book code the compatibility for +R is equal or greater than -R.

My thoughts exactly

[txpharoah]

well, according to the info here:
https://www.videohelp.com/dvd

-R is compatible with about 90% of existing players, while +R is destined to cause it's adopters to burn in an everlasting lake of fire, while being poked in the eye with smelly sneakers by pus-ridden babboons.

..oh, wait.. I misread. scratch everything after "+R is" in that paragraph, and insert "compatible with about 85% of existing players".

[K2]

Let the war die

I don't care as long as I can buy blanks and my player reads them.

[indolikaa]

Wow! This would be a record for a format war thread. Fourteen posts and no bloodshed...

[Bob W]

Both formats are fine so pick what you think is best for you. I can do both however I use DVD-R the most simply because the media is cheaper online.

[mopar7]

Is the media cheaper at the same speeds of the +'s, or are they the 1x? The pricing I've seen, the same speeds of media flip back and forth as to who's cheaper and I have not seen any 1x +R's available. Haven't committed to either yet, just waiting for pricing to drop, so am still making xvcds.

[tompika]

I have not seen any 1x +R's available.

2.4x is the standard recording speed for DVD+R(W)

Wow! This would be a record for a format war thread. Fourteen posts and no bloodshed...

Hit the nineteen...

[vitualis]

According to the propoganda ... er FAQ ... on DVDPlusRW.org the DVD+ formats were "designed to be compatible" w/ standard DVD format (and hence playable on most regular DVD players) while the DVD- formats had compatability added on.

Yes this is propaganda.

I sure that DVD+ formats were meant to be designed to be especially compatible. They just didn't do a very good job of it (insofar that the + formats are no more compatible than the - formats).

Regards.

[mybook4]

Unless you have an ancient DVD Player, both formats will work. The only thing that you should take into consideration is media price. DVD-R is slightly cheaper right now. If that changes in the future, then buy a different drive, they will be like $100 by then. Or if you are really parnoid, buy a Pioneer A06 dual format drive. Either way you are spending the same amount of cash ($150 DVD-R only drive now + $100 for a future drive, or $250 for an A06)

Why do we care anymore? the drives are not $1000 anymore

[dreamchaser]

Heres an article I found on the CD+RW format:
http://www.dvd-makers.com/public/657.cfm
For those that bring up the + compatability issue.

[tgm4883]

nooo!!!!!!!!! Must....... have....... bloodshed.......... must.......... sacrifice......... virgin

[Eug7]

My criteria for selecting the format was to look at the manufactures involved. I went with the giants. Sony, HP, Philips and Microsoft are +R proponents. The logic being longevity. It's likely that these companies will continue to strongly support the +R format.

[next]

I'm going to parrot many other insightful posters here:

Neither format wins.

This is not a VHS versus Betamax issue which was the rage argument in ancient times.

The trend here is a blend. The digital format allows this. Most providers are trying to incorporate all existing formats into their hardware.

Suprise - Even DVD-Ram which I've been playing around with for a while seems to have its place.

[thoots]

Hehehehe!! I'll dive in!!

I bought into that "with the Giants behind it, +R will win the war" thought process back a couple of years ago, and bought a first-generation DVD+RW computer drive. I subsequently bought a new computer with a DVD-R/RW drive, and then I subsequently bought a Panasonic DMR-E50 standalone recorder.

I agree, there is no "war" so long as you've got a disc that'll play in your DVD player. But..... That issue is hardly settled at this point in time.

I really think that "+R" is the losing format. Just look at every DVD player in every store you can find -- VERY FEW will specify any compatibility with "+" formats. Most nowadays do specify "-" compatiblity, but not "+" compatibility. Look at the computers for sale with DVD recording drives -- how many have DVD+R drives? Virtually none, unless they have the new "+/-" combo drives. Even Sony, backer of the +R format, doesn't give you "+" format, unless it's in a combo drive.

So, will a DVD player play your "+R" disc ten years from now? Gosh, I'm not sure! I'm really pretty sure, though, that it'll play a "-R" disc just fine, though. That's what you really need to think about here, as far as I'm concerned.

Finally, I recall laughing at Panasonic over the past couple of years, with their "loser" DVD-RAM recorders. Gosh, though, who knew DVD-RAM is actually a very accomplished "video" format?? Not me!! I thought these were somewhere around halfway useless! Then, they added DVD-R capability, and now hard drive storage, and they've brought the prices down. I think these, and similar machines, are going to really provide most of the future market for blank DVD discs. I suppose similar "+R" machines ought to do just as well, but for some reason, (gosh, can you say "Philips"??) most of these "+R" machines are miserable, unreliable things! Maybe I'm wrong about that, but that has been the impression I've gotten about them. My apologies in advance if I'm off-base with that assessment.

In the end, I just see "momentum" with "-R," and a real lack thereof with "+R." Might not make much of a difference right now, but where will you be with a stack of DVD+R's ten years from now?



thoots

[next]

Actually I see as much momentum with Dvd-Ram. But I've spent so much time with it lately that I'm sure I'm jaded a bit.

The -+ R thing like I said earlier I think will become moot. I do not see very many redeeming differences between the two. Just my opinion.

But with the Dvd-Ram format I've been able to accomplish things that are simply not possible with the other two formats.

Also - I have to limit my opinion based on the fact that my comments are geared more to the set top box. What I call the emerging market. Not so much the professional or even hobbiest approach (which I respect) that is so passionate on this board.

[thoots]

Actually I see as much momentum with Dvd-Ram. But I've spent so much time with it lately that I'm sure I'm jaded a bit.

The -+ R thing like I said earlier I think will become moot. I do not see very many redeeming differences between the two. Just my opinion.

But with the Dvd-Ram format I've been able to accomplish things that are simply not possible with the other two formats.

Also - I have to limit my opinion based on the fact that my comments are geared more to the set top box. What I call the emerging market. Not so much the professional or even hobbiest approach (which I respect) that is so passionate on this board.

next,

Yep, I had no clue about DVD-RAM until I got the Panasonic DMR-E50. Pretty interesting format, to say the least! The -+ thing is indeed moot, so long as a player plays your discs. Indeed, there's nothing "intrinsic" to one format or another to choose one over the other. Just a bit of worry about whether machines in the future will be able to play the discs or not.

Much agreed with you about the set top boxes -- I can see the DVD recorder with hard drive really replacing the average VCR. It'll take a while, but the geeks are going to jump on these machines like there's no tomorrow. And, I expect we'll see something along the lines of a thousand-fold increase in blank disc sales as more and more VHS and Beta libraries get copied over to recordable DVD via these machines. If I were Panasonic, I'd be advertising the HECK out of their machines!!

thoots

[Eug7]

"I went with the giants. Sony, HP, Philips and Microsoft are +R proponents"

My son bought a new Toshiba DVD player. No where did it say it plays +R. Not even in the manual. Guess what? It plays +R's and doesn't stop there. It plays +RW's. Who says the giants in the industry are without influence. Toshiba's a -R original.

[vitualis]

Sigh...

Your "n=1" experience doesn't really mean anything. You can't make that interpretation at all. For instance, the majority of DVD players created before the existence of DVD+R still play it. Does that mean that the + Alliance influenced those manufacturers backwards through time?

In any case, most new DVD players handle both standard properly. If you read the CDLab's survey, you'll see that in general, however, particularly for older players, DVD-R is probably a little bit better supported.

Regards.