PMs (Private Messages) Should Never Be Posted On Forums

[cplevel42]

Just checking for consensus here. Should a persons PM, ever be posted to the forums for all to see, without the authors permission?

Even if the persons PM breaks a rule of the forum, should the persons PM be made public or should a moderator deal with the infraction on a 1 one 1 basis with the offender?

Now remember, the rule that was broken was broken in a PM (private Message) not in a forum discussion.

I will reveal the offense towards the end of the thread.

[freak_in_cage_10k]

i think in general terms is that you should always ask someones permission before you post a pm that they sent you.

HOWEVER, where warez etc is concerned (i am guessing somone PMd you asking/trading warez)- i dont think you should publicly name the person, it is not up to us to pass judgement, however, i think the best thing to do is to forward the PM to one of the moderators/baldrick- i wouldn;t consider this an infringement of thier privacy because:

1) they voided all privacy by asking for warez
2) the moderators could view your pms anyway if they suspected dodgy dealings were occuring!

thats just me, i dont have any real authority etc lol

[cplevel42]

Yes, I agree. Forwarding the PM to the moderator does make sense unless you thought maybe the infraction was a misunderstanding. Then one could discuss the infraction with the offender to clear things up without bringing it up unessesarily to the mods, thus saving the offender from a potential warning.

But my question is still this; Should the PM be made public to the general forum or should it stay private with only the mods knowing the content and who the offender is. Should the offenders username be made public?

[gmatov]

I read yours the day it was posted, so am aware of your complaint.
I don't care one way or the other about the content.
I believe the final word, "uninvited", was in error. If PMs are uninvited, the PM button, above the post, should be non-functional, i.e., uncheck the PM option in your personal settings.
If your request was in a post, it would have gotten you a yellow card, too, but in this context, well, they are the mods, and that is the equivalent of asking for warez.
In future, be careful to whom you PM, and doubly careful of what you PM.
Just consider 1 card a scolding, stick around and learn the ropes, and learn about our little hobby.

[The village idiot]

My thoughts are this....

PM's are a courtesy(sp?) on any forum, and are not really that private. Whether to post the message and the author is a whole question that can only be answered by the moderators or administrators of the site in question (I assume you mean here). Sometimes they need to be posted, but that is mostly to continue a flame war and try to round up supporters for your side of the argument. Whatever it involves, if you are truly offended, or truly offend someone else, then it needs to go to the Mods, Admins, etc.

I usually try to take care of things myself first. If you can manage to really piss me off, then things will go bad.

The reason I accept PM's is sometimes a person will want to ask a question, but feel it is too simple or silly for a post. Or maybe they are embarrased to ask it in public for fear of looking less intelligent. Or for sharing really off topic stuff that doesn't fit anywhere. If something comes in that I don't want to partake of, I simply respond as not interested, or sometimes never respond (sometimes I am just really slow at responding too ).

[cplevel42]

Quite right about the univited aspect. I didn't know that you needed to be invited to do a PM. No one would be able to PM anyone if they always needed to be invited 1st.

OK, now that the cat is out of the bag, here is what happened. I PMed Housepig to ask if he had a copy DVD Maestro. I PMed him specifically because he lives in Minnesota USA. I thought that maybe he would be willing to help me out since we live in the same state. I was even going to ask him if he wanted to meet sometime over a beer or something. He PMed me back to say "You live in Minnesota too?" and went on to post a link saying "click here for more info on DVD Maestro". When I clicked the link, it was the PM that I had privately sent to him, posted for all to see, including my real name. Well, or course I was angry. I felt like I had been stabbed in the back. He had posted it in a forum rules section where you turn people into the mods. This section was setup to inform the mods of people who broke the rules in the general forum and to post links to the offending threads. Of course you can turn people in there for inappropriate PMs as well, but why post my PM, my username, and my real mane for all to see.

I just think he should have PMed me 1st and told me this was a no no. It would have ended there. If I told him to get lost, he could have then privately PMed a mod who would have then given me the warning. It almost seems like he was showing off by turning me in and doing it in a public forum. Brownie points?

I have an earlier version but I needed the latest version. Since Maestro was not produced, sold, or supported anymore, I didn't think it was a big deal if I got a copy from someone. I truly and honestly did not think I was asking for warez. Really, I'm telling the truth. After all, if the company is no longer selling the software, how am I hurting the deceased company by obtaining a version of the software? The company is out of business for Gods sake! I need to make some advanced DVDs and Ulead DVD workshop isn’t cutting it anymore. I could get DVD lab, but I hear that maestro is better.

I just feel really bad about the whole thing. I used a p2p to try to find the latest version, but all of the files were not really DVD Maestro, that is why I asked him. I only used the p2p to get maestro. I’m Not a software pirate at all. I PMed him back to ask why he didn't talk to me 1st, and he basically said that I was a software pirate and that I got what I deserved. Wow, I'm still in shock! I have never thought of myself as a criminal.

Here is his post: https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=576153#576153

[cplevel42]

Village Idiot, I see your point. I have never had an unwanted PM, most of them have just asked for advise, but if I had one, I would be adult about it and tell them no. If it went on and on, then I would email a mod, but I would not publicly post a persons PM (word for word) on a general forum. You will see that this is against the rules in most forums on the net, unless the author approves it. If these things are going to be posted publicly, lets not call these Private messages, lets call them what they are.

[Craig Tucker]

You broke the forum rules, have you read the AUP, this is a direct extract.

Do NOT ask for warez
Asking for warez. In any fashion this is unacceptable including but not limited to PM or e-mail requests or information on what p-2-p network has copies.

I do not believe housepig overstepped the mark in reporting your private message. The fact that you used PM indicates that you may have known that this forum is a warez free zone and hence did not use the public forum.

If you do not comply with the rules don't be surprised if you get reported and warned.

[cplevel42]

Craig, you are incorrect about me using the PM system. I use them (PM)a lot and have never asked for any other software. So the thought that I PMed because I knew that it was illegal is untrue. I hope you are not calling me a liar on this, because I am being very truthful here. To all that are reading this post, please speak up if I have ever asked you for any illegal copies of warez.

I have already said this before; I did not know that asking for an outdated program was warez. You could be a little more understanding ya know, but instead, you prefer to demonize me, and act as though I have no respect for this forum. This of course is not true either. I have the utmost respect for DVDRHelp. I guess there are quite a few of you out there who got your DVD Maestro copies from friends, cause I know damn well that you did NOT all buy them for $2500.00 a pop. So there is no reason to flog a guy who was just trying to get an outdated program so he could make some creative DVDs with a few less limitations than DVD Workshop. Sheesh! I got my warning. Go find someone else to pick on someone who is a real axxhole. I'm not the one!

I'll have the program within a week though. someone emailed me and pointed to where I could get a used copy for 5000.00$

Can anyone point me to some comprehensive guides on Maestro? C'mon Craig, you must know of some! Oh yeah, I remember the Doom9 guides, I'll use them. See ya all on the flip.

Question: when will that stupid yellow flag under my username disapear? or am I marked for life?

[tgpo]

Question: when will that stupid yellow flag under my username disapear? or am I marked for life?

Us mods can remove it anytime we want....just just a side note....sometimes letting things go will make us more prone to letting things go, if you get my point.

[BJ_M]

cplevel42, i am not involved in whatever issue you had - so im not going to GET involved ... but Maestro is still a owned product (by Apple) and in fact thier newest dvd pro is almost the same program ..

in fact we do get some (little) support still ....


I made the offer before -- anyone owning a legal copy and needs a manual i can send them one via pdf or for small cost -- even a full color printed copy ...

[Conquest10]

let me post a pm i received:

[Solarjetman]

Us mods can remove it anytime we want....

Forgive me for going a little off topic here, but is there no time span which they automatically are removed? I know this whole flagging thing is new, but if they don't go away after a period of time has passed, in the future the mods are going to be flooded with people asking for the tags to be removed. Not only is this more work for moderators, it leaves mods open to the accusations of playing favorites.

After all, even traffic violations are removed from the record after some time (length depending on the state and offense).

[vitualis]

If you break one of the forum rules by inappropriate use of PM, then don't be surprised if you get reported. Sorry, but ignorance of the forum rules / AUP is not an acceptable reason.

We moderators CAN'T just look into people's PMs. Only Baldrick can do that. The point of the "report" thread is so that all the moderators can see and deal with infringements.

As for you asking for Maestro, I don't care too much about your reasoning and justification. Asking for any software that is commerical, whether it is outdated our not is still illegal and is "warez". Just learn from this experience and accept that you made a poor judgement call when you PM'ed housepig.

As for the flag next to your name, that will stay there permanently until a mod decides to remove it (and we probably won't for anyone unless it was put there incorrectly in the first place).

Regards.

[gmatov]

Conquest,
That was uncalled for. The thread had nothing to do with someone asking YOU for "warez", or, with the question mark, if you had asked and he had offered you a copy with #.

[cplevel42]

Vitualis, I would like to let this go, but You make it harder for me to. You still are taking the stern approach, when we should really just let it go now. Its done.

Tgpo, pretty much has the right idea here. He gave me my warning, were all smart enough to know that I will NOT do it again; Tgpo hinted that if I behave myself, in a while, the flag could be removed. A much sunnier picture than you are painting for me.

Why mark me with a flag forever? There is no real point in it?

I just want to get back to discussing DVDs and Authoring.

Sure, I made a mistake; I didn't know that Apple still owned the software. I know, I know, Ignorance is not an excuse. I'm an evil terrible guy, so why not ROAST me again. There is really no point in it though.

If I was a mod: cplevel42, we have given you warning about warez, please don't do it again. I'm sure you're smart enough not to (benefit of doubt). The flag will remain there until we feel that you are no longer a threat to yourself or others. (hope) Now go have a good time on the forum and lets put this behind us, and remember, NO WAREZ (positive)

Now don't you think that might be taken a bit better than your statement of doom and gloom for my future on this forum. Just imagine if you had made the mistake I made; would you really want a little yellow flag by your name forever. I think not! If I was the mod, I'd remove it from your name after I knew I could trust you. This concept is called "being a decent human being" DVDRHelp doesn't need to become an unforgiving police state. Right?

In the early 1500's people were branded on their foreheads if they committed a crime, the branding was quite permanent. What was so bad about that? Well, the fact that the branding would remain even if the individual turned out to be, in the future, an honest and legal contributor to society. This, of course, wasn't often the case, because no one would ever hire the bloke ever again, because of the permanent branding.

[cplevel42]

Conquest, that was a real class act.

Hey, I have a wonderful idea; let's all publicly post some PMs that we have received from other members. It will be such a good time :P ; and we can post them on this very thread

[flaninacupboard]

this forum is a cruel dictatorship overseen by baldrick, with punishment dished out by the ever faithful mods.

In case you didn't get TGPO's point, stop talking about this. whining will only make them upgrade you to a red card, and if they -did- take away your yellow card, they'd be playing favourites. something you're against.

look, go talk about something else somewhere else, and if in a month or twos time you're a well respected member with plenty of advice and help to offer, ask again.

[txpharoah]

Get over it.

[Baldrick]

The flag(s) will be automatically removed after a while if no mod removes it/they.

[cplevel42]

txpharoah, I'm glad you are EX-cow tipper. That is illegal in the state of Minnesota. I wouldn't want to turn you into the mods

OK, cool! Thanks for the chime in Bladrick. As far as I'm concerned this discussion is done.

You guys have a good, rest of the weekend.

TCOY!
cplevel42

[scottvf]

I have a question that I've been wondering about for some time. Why is everyone so uptight about warez on this forum? I know other forums where people pm others about it with no problems. (after all it's between 2 people with is not public) It's not like the this forum is promoting it.

[flaninacupboard]

because at the moment we are capable of maintaining that this site is about backing up discs we own and converting material we shoot ourselves. if we delve into piracy warez P2P discussion etc, we would quickly be shut down.

more than that, a lot of the software people ask for cracked versions of are quite complex. if they can't find pirated software on the internet on their own, then they have no hope of actually using their knocked off copies of premiere, CCE and Scenarist.

[tgpo]

It's not like the this forum is promoting it.

The problem is that they would still be using this forum to discuss and trade warez. Did anyone think of the option that Baldrick perhaps just doesn't want it on his website?

[snowmoon]

I have seem many forums degrade into warez and it's not a pretty sight. They don't seem to understand basic concepts of how to handle themselves and are prone to lash out at anyone in their path. It's also the quick fix community, if the don't get what they want in 5 minutes or less they DOS your site.

I have no need for warez kiddies I hope they never infiltrate this board. If you don't have the courtsey to not talk about illegal activities ( here in the US ) then you deserve to get kicked.

The work I do is 95% time shifting mpeg and 5% home video and I don't know what I would do without this resource.

[rallynavvie]

I raided my copy of Maestro from the school when they shut down their video program, yarr I be a pirate The school didn't charge me to take it off their hands, but alas, the manual was nowhere to be found (lousy kids). I never planned to get too in-depth with it though since Encore is coming out soon. I'm pretty excited to see what Adobe has for us with its $500 offering.

And whatever happened to "Minnesota Nice"?

[housepig]

I know other forums where people pm others about it with no problems. (after all it's between 2 people with is not public) It's not like the this forum is promoting it.

Since I'm the other party in this, here's my answer to that question -

anyone who has read any of my posts on this site where the subject has come up knows that I am adamant about keeping warez off this board. whatever your personal feelings about warez, that's not the argument. I don't want to see this board shut down for them.

so when I got a PM asking me for warez, I reported it. Publicly. Had it been someone else who I'd been in frequent dialogs with on these boards, TGPO or mkelley or someone, and they had asked "hey, can you hook me up", yeah, I would have handled it in a PM.

But to PM me out of the blue and ask me for warez? Not a smart move. And on reflection, the previous poster who said "uninvited" was a poor choice of words was correct, but otherwise I stand by my report. If you PM someone you don't know, you don't know what they are going to do... which was in my first response to cplevel42.

I would further maintain that cplevel42 started this thread as a pre-emptive strike - after several more irate PM's from him, which I attempted to answer in a rational fashion, I told him that if he PM'd me again, I'd post all the correspondence and ask everybody to render an opinion.

So in my opinion, he's trying to get the first word in here. Which is fine - judging by the preponderance of responses, I don't think he's getting quite the show of support he thought he would.

[edit - edited for spelling.]

[housepig]

And whatever happened to "Minnesota Nice"?

It turns to "Minnesota Sarcastic" when faced with "Minnesota Stupid".

[gmatov]

Housepig,
Consider my post withdrawn. "uninvited" was my only objection.
The balance of this thread, particularly the Mod's replies, are as fair as anyone could ask for.

Flanina,
Did you just change to "whining" from "whinging" because you just learned that we Americans didn't know what it meant?
You don't have to do that.

[BJ_M]

I raided my copy of Maestro from the school when they shut down their video program, yarr I be a pirate :D The school didn't charge me to take it off their hands, but alas, the manual was nowhere to be found (lousy kids). I never planned to get too in-depth with it though since Encore is coming out soon. I'm pretty excited to see what Adobe has for us with its $500 offering.

And whatever happened to "Minnesota Nice"? :lol:

send me the number printed on the dongle and i will send you a manual ..

encore isnt near as complete as maestro but is well intergrated into the new premiere , AE, and even photoshop and audition (which is cool edit pro in case no one has figured it out yet) .