PMs (Private Messages) Should Never Be Posted On Forums

[pixel]

I agree that no PMs should be posted on forums unless moderators/baldrick think it necessary to give examples of unacceptable messages.

I would pass messages straight on to moderators and let them do as they see fit.

[Cecilio]

hey i was thinking if some could kinda clear my record lol you know since i have a flag for no great reason.

[Supreme2k]

If someone is worried about their warning going away, I think that creating a post about it to complain (rather than PM'ing the mods) is exactly the wrong thing to do.

Also, a PM is a two-party system. If the receiving party wants to do something with it, they have every right. The "private" part of PM basically means that others won't see the message, not that there's some guarantee of privacy. Just like if you call someone up at random and say "You wanna score some weed?", you can't cry to the police "That was a PRIVATE conversation!"

[Thought Copper]

Few people understand the reason for rules and laws. Some people cannot even interpret the law accurately or apply it justly/fairly, including high level judges and especially mods on this site.

The reason for the No Warez rule on the forum is that it will attract attention of the Software Companies which might construe Warez posts as promoting warez. These forums are publically visible and cached on Google so such evidence can be used against Baldrick to shutdown this site due to what looks like warez desemination.

Baldrick doesn't want this site (his labor of love) shut down due to the current litigious environment created in large part due to IP lawyers. So, strict and explicit rules where made for the publically visible forums.

PMs however are private. They cannot be seen except by the receiver of the message and Baldrick. Hence, there is no risk of companies using PMs as evidence to sue or shutdown this site.

Also, forum rules do not apply to PMs that's why they are callled "Forum Rules" not "Site Rules" or "Membership Rules" I'm sure this will change in the future but the nature of this publically visible forum is what makes forum rules necessary for the survival of this site.

HOWEVER, the person who posted the PM on the forums (instead of keeping it private) is putting this site at risk by making this Private Message publically available for software companies to construe and use as evidence of warez activity. And as such, the person who posted the PM is in technical violation of the No Warez rule on this site. So, the person who posted the PM on the forum has violated both the Letter and Intent of the forum rules.

Ironic, ain't it, a wannabee dogooder rats out on a private messenger only to create the exact harm that Balderick's forum rules were trying to protect against. The harm is: exposing this site to litigation due to the posting of a warez request on a publically visible forum which is cached on Google..

As such, PM such as this one, for the safety of this site, should best be kept private. But, heck, that's only my well rationalized opinion. I certainly don't expect some of the rule confused individuals on this site to understand nor care about the intent of rules and the reason for fair application of rules.

[txpharoah]

HOWEVER, the person who posted the PM on the forums (instead of keeping it private) is putting this site at risk by making this Private Message publically available for software companies to construe and use as evidence of warez activity. And as such, the person who posted the PM is in technical violation of the No Warez rule on this site. So, the person who posted the PM on the forum has violated both the Letter and Intent of the forum rules.

Absolutely not. That's a horribly distorted viewpoint.

[flaninacupboard]

copper,
if you truly believe only the reciever and balders can read the PM's, then there's a lot you don't know about the internet! unless baldrick has opted to use 256bit encryption on PM's they're easily accesible to the the people hosting the site, your ISP and nowadays any government organisation who feels like taking a peek.

this issue really is dead. you asked for warez (mistakenly or otherwise) and you were berated. put you hand up "sorry guys, i was wrong to ask for warez" accept your little yellow card and move on! it'll be gone soon, and if you stop moaning and whinging we'll all forget all about it.

[Thought Copper]

Absolutely not. That's a horribly distorted viewpoint.

Feel free to explain your bold, offensive, and unjustified statement TX. Or are you simply abusing the rules again by trying inciting flames again? If you can't refute my statements, don't waste bandwidth with ur flaming attempts.

copper,
if you truly believe only the reciever and balders can read the PM's, then there's a lot you don't know about the internet! unless baldrick has opted to use 256bit encryption on PM's they're easily accesible to the the people hosting the site, your ISP and nowadays any government organisation who feels like taking a peek.

this issue really is dead. you asked for warez (mistakenly or otherwise) and you were berated. put you hand up "sorry guys, i was wrong to ask for warez" accept your little yellow card and move on! it'll be gone soon, and if you stop moaning and whinging we'll all forget all about it.

flaninacupboard,
I did not request warez the first poster did. I was making a point that the person who reported the PM on the forums did more harm than the person who wrote the PM. Also, read my point that forum posts are cached on Google. PMs are not, as such, they are not publically available.

Also, hacking a website's encryption (a crime) to gain evidence of possible software licensing violations would most likely be inadmissible in any court of law. As such, it is highly unlikely that such things are occuring. Unless, you flaninacupboard have done so? Have you hacked the PMs on this site? Shame on you.

Once again for those who need reiteration, forum posts are far far more publically visible than a private message. Forum posts are stored on Google, hence readily available as evidence. PMs are private, require hacking into a website, and would be inadmissible in court.

Hence, the person who posted the PM on the forum did in fact do much more harm.

[housepig]

HOWEVER, the person who posted the PM on the forums (instead of keeping it private) is putting this site at risk by making this Private Message publically available for software companies to construe and use as evidence of warez activity. And as such, the person who posted the PM is in technical violation of the No Warez rule on this site. So, the person who posted the PM on the forum has violated both the Letter and Intent of the forum rules.

Thought Copper -

how nice of you to drop by! it's always a pleasure to see you throwing your hat into the ring.

So, PM aside, if member #1 posts about warez, and member #2 reports that post, then member #2 has violated "both the Letter and Intent of the forum rules" because the reporting post references warez?

If so, why does every post have the "report this post - warez/spam/bash" link in the lower right, which takes you directly to the "Report Problem Threads / Members Here" thread?

There are rules against warez in Private Messages - see Craig Tucker's post earlier in this thread regarding the Terms of Service.

The idea that litigation is going to be brought down on this site because a member is reporting someone asking for warez - because it's "evidence of warez activity" - is flawed. That post would serve the defense just as well - as evidence that we are vigilant about policing ourselves, and that warez posts and requests - even in a private message - are not tolerated, and that members are warned and banned for that behavior.. even if they cry about it.

I'm going to get back to helping other members... hope to see you do the same.

[pacmania_2001]

Few people understand the reason for rules and laws. Some people cannot even interpret the law accurately or apply it justly/fairly, including high level judges and especially mods on this site.

I (and I'm sure every other mod) take offence at that statement. Moderators simply aren't picked at random in some lucky draw. They are chosen by Baldrick and the other moderators after lengthy debates. The reason they are picked is that they do understand these site rules.

If the mod(s) weren't accurately enforcing the site rules then Baldrick would have a chat to us in the moderator forum about our actions. If we continued misinterpreting these rules then he would strip us of moderator duties. This only happens when a serious offence occurs such as in the case of King John.

The reason for the No Warez rule on the forum is that it will attract attention of the Software Companies which might construe Warez posts as promoting warez. These forums are publically visible and cached on Google so such evidence can be used against Baldrick to shutdown this site due to what looks like warez desemination.

Baldrick doesn't want this site (his labor of love) shut down due to the current litigious environment created in large part due to IP lawyers. So, strict and explicit rules where made for the publically visible forums.

PMs however are private. They cannot be seen except by the receiver of the message and Baldrick. Hence, there is no risk of companies using PMs as evidence to sue or shutdown this site.

You are partly correct. The reason for the 'No Warez' rule is to cover DVDRHelp from litigation. However, it is also there because us moderators and admin feel strongly in favour of IP rights. If a person(s) have spent numerous amounts of time and money developing a program, why shouldn't they be rewarded?

The random PM'ing of people asking for warez is a huge risk. We have quite a few members here who work for software / movie companies. If they were PM'ed asking for an illegal copy of their software how do you think they are going to react? Furthermore if they aren't allowed to report it (by posting it in the report thread) then it will be seen as us facilitating the use of warez. If someone kept the PM'ing of warez between themselves and members they trust then the likelyhood of us finding out is small.

HOWEVER, the person who posted the PM on the forums (instead of keeping it private) is putting this site at risk by making this Private Message publically available for software companies to construe and use as evidence of warez activity. And as such, the person who posted the PM is in technical violation of the No Warez rule on this site. So, the person who posted the PM on the forum has violated both the Letter and Intent of the forum rules.

How? He posted it (in line with our rules) and we took appropriate action. If we had of replied with something like "Nah, dont worry about, its a PM so it's okay to talk about warez" then it would have been risking the site more. If you break the rules by asking for warez I have no sympathy for your complaints about your privacy.

As such, PM such as this one, for the safety of this site, should best be kept private. But, heck, that's only my well rationalized opinion.

Did you even read the AUP? It states that the asking for, and providing of warez through PM's are illegal. These rules are not only restricted to the forum, they cover the whole site. If someone posts something in the DVD Player list that infringes these rules they face the same action as a forum member.

Lastly, the moderators / administrators decisions are final. The way we act or interpret these rules are final. The only one who can overturn a moderators decision is Baldrick.

[Thought Copper]

[quote="housepig"]

how nice of you to drop by! it's always a pleasure to see you throwing your hat into the ring.
So, PM aside, if member #1 posts about warez, and member #2 reports that post, then member #2 has violated "both the Letter and Intent of the forum rules" because the reporting post references warez?

If so, why does every post have the "report this post - warez/spam/bash" link in the lower right, which takes you directly to the "Report Problem Threads / Members Here" thread?.

Nice of you to welcome me, Hpig. Yes, unfortunately you broke the forum rules, letter and intentwise by placing evidence of warez in a publically viewable forum (which is also saved on Google).

There are rules against warez in Private Messages - see Craig Tucker's post earlier in this thread regarding the Terms of Service.

Sure, and the proper and most effective way of handling it is to forward it to a mod who understands the rules and can apply it fairly. Posting it on the forums is not only redundant, it builds evidence of private warez trafficking. Such public posts of warez trafficking on this site puts this site on the Software companies and their legal counsel's radar. See?

The idea that litigation is going to be brought down on this site because a member is reporting someone asking for warez - because it's "evidence of warez activity" - is flawed. That post would serve the defense just as well - as evidence that we are vigilant about policing ourselves, and that warez posts and requests - even in a private message - are not tolerated, and that members are warned and banned for that behavior.. even if they cry about it.

The software companies don't care. If they have the evidence, they will use it. Haven't you read the news regarding the chilling effects of DMCA on EFF.net. Companies don't care about defendant justifications. Posting samples "warez requests" attracts the software companies's counsel who are paid to litigate whenever possible. Do not underestimate the persistence of lawyers; they get paid to sue and find ways to sue--that's how they earn their worth.

Last, publically posting the warez requesting PM was a bad idea and you should have reported it to a noble mod which would be far more effective and less damaging on the legitimacy of this site.

I'm going to get back to helping other members... hope to see you do the same.

Helping is what I'm here for. Just make sure you know what you're talking about.

[pacmania_2001]

Nice of you to welcome me, Hpig. Yes, unfortunately you broke the forum rules, letter and intentwise by placing evidence of warez in a publically viewable forum (which is also saved on Google).

Please leave the moderating to the moderators. I (and every other mod) have so far supported what House Pig did.

[housepig]

Thought Copper -

Yes, unfortunately you broke the forum rules, letter and intentwise by placing evidence of warez in a publically viewable forum (which is also saved on Google).

Well, then - I guess I have my official warning coming. Baldrick? TGPO? Virtualis? I assure you guys I won't cry about it.

Do not underestimate the persistence of lawyers; they get paid to sue and find ways to sue--that's how they earn their worth.

I never underestimate lawyers - I spent 15+ years working with lawyers in the IP field in D.C. I got to deal with them up close and personal.

Just make sure you know what you're talking about.

I'm sure if I don't, you'll hop right in and "reeducate" me.

[/quote]

[Thought Copper]

Few people understand the reason for rules and laws. Some people cannot even interpret the law accurately or apply it justly/fairly, including high level judges and especially mods on this site.

I (and I'm sure every other mod) take offence at that statement. Moderators simply aren't picked at random in some lucky draw. They are chosen by Baldrick and the other moderators after lengthy debates. The reason they are picked is that they do understand these site rules.

Baldrick is not responsible for how his mods act. He has admited this. He even stated that mod mistakes do occur. Mods are people, not perfect. Even judges make huge errors in rule/law interpretation. This is a fact. If you have a personal issue, PM me.

You are partly correct.

I'm entirely correct. That is the reason for the creation of the strict No Warez rule. Other minor reasons may apply but the CYA is the main reason.

The random PM'ing of people asking for warez is a huge risk.

Posting for everyone to see is an even higher risk. The best way to handle it is to report it privately and handle it quietly so it doesn't become recorded public knowledge and attract the attention of lawyers who can't wait to send a cease and desist letter. There's no advantage posting this publically when it can be handled privately.

I have no sympathy for your complaints about your privacy.

Privacy? When was that an issue? The issue is the security of this site from lawsuits. Please stick to the stated issues and don't bring up assumed issues. Thanks.

Lastly, the moderators / administrators decisions are final. The way we act or interpret these rules are final. The only one who can overturn a moderators decision is Baldrick.

When was the finality of a mod at issue in this discussion? Please stick to the topic at hand: whether PM should be posted on forums or not.

[Supreme2k]

Also, forum rules do not apply to PMs that's why they are callled "Forum Rules" not "Site Rules" or "Membership Rules" I'm sure this will change in the future but the nature of this publically visible forum is what makes forum rules necessary for the survival of this site.

Last I checked, you can only PM someone through the forums, not the front page, tools section, or reviews. Basically, the forum rules would apply to evertything in the forum, even if it wasn't specifically mentioned in the AUP.

[pacmania_2001]

Baldrick is not responsible for how his mods act. He has admited this. Mods are people, not perfect. If you have a personal issue, PM me.

I never said Baldrick was responsible for how we act. I said that we are picked because we are deemed to have a good grasp on the intent of the rules. Baldrick will however act against a moderator who isn't doing their job (like in the case of King John).

I dont understand the personal issue thing though. I have no problem with any user on this site and show no bias.

I'm entirely correct. That is the reason for the creation of the strict No Warez rule. Other minor reasons may apply but the CYA is the main reason.

No offence but when did you and Baldrick become the same person? It seems to me that you think the way you interpret the rules is the way Baldrick does.

Privacy? When was that an issue? The issue is the security of this site from lawsuits. Please stick to the stated issues and don't bring up assumed issues. Thanks.

Umm... maybe you need to read the whole topic, the initial poster was complaining about his privacy being breached by his details being posted. You yourself are argueing for privacy by having the mods deal with it in private.

When was the finality of a mod at issue in this discussion? Please stick to the topic at hand: whether PM should be posted on forums or not.

The issue of finality is very much a part of this conversation. If the mods/admin say it is okay for the posting of PM's on the forum then that decision is final. It means don't expect us to reprimand Housepig for what he did.

You are beating a dead chicken. You can aruge till your heart is content but at the end of the day what effect is it going to have? None. We have supported what Housepig did and will continue to do so.

[Thought Copper]

I'm sure if I don't, you'll hop right in and "reeducate" me.

You betcha.


pacmania,

You're off topic again. We were discussing whether it's wise to post a PM that contains a warez request on the publically visible forums. I've stated my reasons as have others. Specifically, I've stated that it's wiser to handle it privately as to not attract attention of lawyers working for software companies.

If you have a personal issue, please please PM me. Do not extend this thread into a personal issue. Remember, opinions and discussion were requested--such is not against forum rules.

I've stayed pretty much on topic: discussing whether such PMs should be posted or not. I hope you and others can do the same.

[pacmania_2001]

It's like discussing something with a brick wall.

Anyway, the decision has been made. What Housepig did has the support of the moderators. If you break the forum rules don't be suprised if you are reported publicly.

This is my last post in this discussion.

[The village idiot]

WOW This is just like a DVD-R vs. DVD+R format war


Can I have a yellow flag? I just want to look like I'm bad

As long as we never get a stars rating next to our usenames. Playing the Sneetches game gets old very fast


Somebody lock this puppy so it will fall to the bottom, please....

[txpharoah]

It's like discussing something with a brick wall.

Yeah, but if my bricks talked back, I'd demolish the building.

[shoozleboy]

You reliving older days over at the "U", VillageI??

Had a lot of fun handing out the stars.... and taking them away!!

[cplevel42]

LOL You guys are still talking about this?

OK, let's get the final word from Baldrick on this. No one wants to repremand Housepig on this, so that is not an issue.

The question at hand is this; Do we want to PUBLICALY post all PMs that ask for wxrxz, or should we PRIVETLY forward them on to the mods, where they can STILL prosecute the offender just as dutily and NOT unessicarily raise the eybrows of the software companies.

I personally think reporting them in private is in Baldrick's best interest. Whether or not he agrees is up to him. Honestly, I am not just saying this because I was the one repremanded. If I was the site owner, I would want to keep all refrences to Wxrxz to the bare minimum. There is really no good reason for doing public execusions here anyway. There are some very valid reasons why governments stopped doing execustions in public, long ago.

I have no problem with the thread that was started to publicly report individuals who post inappropriately to the general forum; when a flame war starts, when someone is being verbally abusive to other users, or even if someone asks for wxrxz. But they have posted these things in the FORUM, so it’s already public. You just go to the complaints section and start a post with a link to the offense. PMs are private. PERIOD! These should only be viewed by Baldrick, or MODs if inappropriate. That's it! No one else has the right, or the need to see the PM. This is the rule on most discussion boards on the net, and there is a good reason for it.

There is no debate in whether Houspig had the right to turn me it. He had the right, fair and square. Did he NEED to post my PM for all to see? We are talking NEED here. If you can give me valid reasons why this NEEDS to be done other that I'm not a member of the GOOD OLE BOYS CLUB, please tell me. Also, tell me why most other sites have set up a rule that PMs not be posted to the general forums without the authors express permission. Have they all got it wrong?

Remember this; I DID NOT KNOW THAT I WAS ASKING FOR WXRXZ Because of the programs status. I don't care if you don't believe me; my momma taught me NOT to be a liar. Ignorance of the law is no excuse, so I will take my lumps. Period! So quit saying I'm whining. I'm not.

Snowmoon Wrote:

I have no need for warez kiddies I hope they never infiltrate this board. If you don't have the courtsey to not talk about illegal activities ( here in the US ) then you deserve to get kicked.

Don't you get it? I'm not a warez guy!!!! Sheesh

I personally think that the reason that most of you sided with Housepig on this was because this situation has entertainment value. If housepig were to have reported it privately, then there would have been no public execution. Where is the fun in that? :P

Here is evidence that Hosepig turned me in for PERSONAL reasons. I'm am disappointed that the mods did NOT pick this up in Houspigs last post to this thread.

Housepig Wrote:

so when I got a PM asking me for warez, I reported it. Publicly. Had it been someone else who I'd been in frequent dialogs with on these boards, TGPO or mkelley or someone, and they had asked "hey, can you hook me up", yeah, I would have handled it in a PM.

See? If I was was "IN" with the "good ole boys club" I would have been OK asking Houspig for wxrxz in a PM on this forum, but I was not part of this special group, so I got burned. So it would seem, some mods included, that some of you live above the law here in DVDR land. If this is true, that is a shame. I'm NOT saying that this is true, but it would seem that way. Wouldn't it?

[snowmoon]

First off the quote was taken completly out of context because we were taking about warez at that point, not you specifically.

I don't believe any blanket rule would server the interests of this board. Making a rule would be like saying the users can not make a rational decision on what to post or not. Mabye if posting personal PM's becomes a passtime then it might be a good idea, but in the meantime, but just because YOU got humiliated does not mean that a new rule needs to be added to the AUP.

I find nothing wrong with the occasional public humiliation of users who go around asking for copyrighted programs. Because the moderators can generally tell a lie from ignorance you are still a member of the forum. If the moderators really believed you were going around to everyone soliciting warez you would have been banned. It's not a matter of "old boys network" or favortisim, quite a few have gotten their panties in a bunch because mods don't stand for warez... even for abandonware because it could mean the end of the forum for everyone.

Don't take it personal, it's a survival instinct.

[housepig]

cplevel42 -

PMs are private. PERIOD!

PMs are private in the sense that they are not automatically posted to a public forum - not private in the sense that they are sacred and to be kept under lock & key. Once it's sent, a PM is only as private as the sender or the recipient want it to be.

Did he NEED to post my PM for all to see? We are talking NEED here.

Did I NEED to? No. Do I NEED to post here at all? No. Do I NEED to keep breathing air to live? Yes. NEED is relative.

Also, tell me why most other sites have set up a rule that PMs not be posted to the general forums without the authors express permission.

Maybe you should ask those other sites. Baldrick's site, Baldrick's rules. If he wants to change them, he will... and if he wanted to weigh in on this thread in more detail than he has, I'm sure he would have by now.

So quit saying I'm whining. I'm not.

Don't you get it? I'm not a warez guy!!!! Sheesh

These two lines seem to me to be contradictory.

Here is evidence that Hosepig [nice! - Housepig]turned me in for PERSONAL reasons. I'm am disappointed that the mods did NOT pick this up in Houspigs last post to this thread.

Housepig Wrote:

so when I got a PM asking me for warez, I reported it. Publicly. Had it been someone else who I'd been in frequent dialogs with on these boards, TGPO or mkelley or someone, and they had asked "hey, can you hook me up", yeah, I would have handled it in a PM.

See? If I was was "IN" with the "good ole boys club" I would have been OK asking Houspig for wxrxz in a PM on this forum, but I was not part of this special group, so I got burned. So it would seem, some mods included, that some of you live above the law here in DVDR land. If this is true, that is a shame. I'm NOT saying that this is true, but it would seem that way. Wouldn't it?

Ah, yes, the Old Boy's Club. We'll be discussing your membership over cigars and brandy as we recline in leather armchairs tonight for our weekly meeting...

Here's how my club works - if I know and respect you, yes indeed, you get special privelages. If someone I know and respect asked me for $10, I'd give it to them. If someone I did not know at all asks me for $10, they aren't likely to get it.

So if someone I like and respect on this board - moderator or not - had done what you did, you're absolutely right, I would apply a totally different standard to them, based on an ongoing relationship. They would have gotten a polite refusal and a request not to ask me for that sort of stuff.

Since I don't know you at all - and for all I know you could be a Spruce employee trying to entrap me - you got the response you got. Tough.

Oh, and don't read too much into the fact that I name-dropped TGPO and mkelley (who, just to note, is not a moderator) - they just happened to be the first two people that came to mind. There are plenty of people I respect here, and to whom I'd extend the courtesy of a private response... but oh, wait - none of them NEED it, because none of them asked me for software!

I must say I find it amusing to see how your position has shifted to "we shouldn't post PM's with wXrXz posts publicly, for the good of the site", and away from "I'm embarrassed that I got exposed publicly, he shouldn't have done that"... very noble.

[snowmoon]

Just a warning.... if this thread does not become productive I think it should be locked.

[Thought Copper]

Another reason to handle PM violations privately:

(1) The person who wrote the PM would have been reprimanded and learned his lesson quietly. This thread would not be here going on and on being infested by the crude nature of the good old boys.

(2) The good old boys wouldn't be having a good time flaming without the possibility of repremand.

Example: Read TX's completely unnecessary and offtopic threat of violence: "I would demolish [the bricks]" in direct reference to pacmania's personal attack on me by calling me "a wall".

No, I won't report it ... I'm not in the good old boy club. I found that it does no good reporting good old boys. I get the blame if I report them without a legitimate explanation. But, please read TX's post and think honesty about it "does TX's violent and antagonistic post serve a good purpose for this community?" Do we want TX antagonizing every post for his personal amuzement? Why is this not considered flaming and bashing members--rule violations?

Also, why is TX allowed to constantly post such antagonistic, violent, offensive posts. And is never warned? Hmmm? How does this serve Baldrick's interest? How is TX's personal attack and threat considered relevant to this discussion?

How would you feel if you were a victim of TX violent and antagonistic posts and nothing you say can be done about it.

No more snide remarks please. Use your honesty and act fairly ... why is TX allowed so much leeway as to threaten a member with physical violence!?

Snowmoon, what do you think?

I don't think pacmania is willing to act fairly in this matter as TX has not been warned. And Vitualis clearly has a personal bias against me.

Can you act fairly Snowmoon and bring order and fairness and legitimacy to these forums?

[Conquest10]

get over it already. you broke the rules and were given a warning. complaining about it in every single one your posts is not going to get it removed.

[Jukka]

Perhaps someone can answer this for me. I understand the Warez rules, etc. perfectly clearly and agree with them. However, how can the site get away with posting links to DVD Rippers? Surely these are illegal under DMCA, etc. or is the jury still out on that?

Anyway, keep up the good work folks (all of you / us).

[cplevel42]

The only major problem that I now have was the fact that you posted my PM which had my REAL NAME, and the location of where I live. My personal info should not be revealed to anyone without my consent. TGPO removed that info from your post because he too agreed that you posting my real name was NOT NEEDED. Initially I was just as mad that you turned me in at all because I was in disbelief that I had broken a forum rule. You fail to remember that I didn't know that outdated software was warez. You can say that I'm a Fxxking Idiot for not knowing that, but some would agree that even a smart person might make that mistake.

You will argue that since I PMed you, you have the right to publish my personal info on the net. You may technically have the right to, but it’s just not what we should be doing to our fellow DVDRHelpers whether you like em or not. I don't care if I just met you or have known you for years; posting personal info on public forum does not help anyone. Getting me in trouble with the site mods is one thing, getting me in trouble with the FBI for asking a piece of outdated software, is heartless.

Housepig Wrote:

I must say I find it amusing to see how your position has shifted to "we shouldn't post PM's with wXrXz posts publicly, for the good of the site", and away from "I'm embarrassed that I got exposed publicly, he shouldn't have done that"... very noble.

This is a personal attack. He is basically saying that I'm a snake in the grass.

Noble or not, I have always cared about the well being of this site. House pig you play me off as a guy who had no respect at all for DVDRHelp and I’m just now acting like I do. This flat out false. I had emailed Stefan way before I ever knew you existed to tell him that the site was great and that I respected it. Don't act like you are more honorable and more dedicated to this site that I am. That's just a load of crap!!!!! For anyone to even insinuate that I was trying to hurt this site by asking for an outdated program is just crazy. Why would I want the site that I visit the most, to be closed down? There is only so far that you take this whole thing. . I'm not nearly as bad as you make me out to be and I think people know that. In fact, I think this has become a personal attack that has become more personal.

I left this thread on Friday, thinking that It was done only to come back home on Sunday, and see that Housepig has attacked my character again. I don’t just sit back and take it.

For the posters like GUMBY – conquest10, I’m not doing any arguing to get the flag removed. TGPOs ranch hand, (txpharoah) made a personal attack and so have others including Houspig. I’m just defending my character.

Thought Copper, you are correct here, no one can stick to topic and give good reasons at all. All I have heard so far is: Personal attacks, “quit whining”, you were wrong we are right, We are the MODS and you will do what we say, or else. NOT you TGPO, you have been professional about everything. And you know what?; it was TGPO that gave me my warning. This should tell you something.

[housepig]

Perhaps someone can answer this for me. I understand the Warez rules, etc. perfectly clearly and agree with them. However, how can the site get away with posting links to DVD Rippers? Surely these are illegal under DMCA, etc. or is the jury still out on that?

The difference between a ripping program and warez is that warez is piracy, plain and simple - it's providing software or copyrighted content to someone with no legal right to it, by someone with no right to distribute it.

By contrast, although yes, the tools to circumvent CSS encryption are illegal under the DMCA, the owners of this site have made it clear that they support the Fair Use right to make a backup copy of a piece of media. Since breaking the encryption is necessary to make a copy*, it's a catch-22.

But linking to a tool that breaks CSS to pursue the Fair Use right to make a backup copy is a far more defensible position, legally, than having a pirate software free-for-all.

(*see my post in this thread here for a discussion on backups that don't infringe the DMCA)

[Thought Copper]

Sure looks like a good old boy club here. It looks like no mod is willing to take the high road.

Favors are done for friends and when their friends commits violations nothing is done. Yea, looks like this forum is in good hands with these mods practicing favoritism for their buds.

Vitualis still did not explain why I was flagged for exposing and detailing TX's personal attack. Also, TX is continually harassing me with no repremand.