Win98SE crashes when I plug in and turn on my camcorder

[doublejam97]

Equipment:
HP 700MKz, 128 RAM, 120 HD, Pen III, Win 98SE
Texas Instrument OHCI compliant IEEE 1394 Host Controller
Sony DCR TRV-80
Firewire HUB (I installed)

All my equipment worked, I could stream & capture video, until my DH super crashed my computer and I had to re-install windows.

Now when I plug the I link into the TRV-80 and turn it on to VCR, windows completely crashes (can't even ctrl alt del).

If I try to plug in/turn camera on and then boot my computer it freezes at the Win startup screen. If I unplug at that point I do get the following error:

"Windows protection error: need to reboot your computer"

What I have tried:
Updating the drivers for the 1394 host controller
Updating the BIOS through HP's website and resetting to defaults
Had Norton WinDoctor take a look, found no related problem
Device manager says all device working properly.

I'm completely out of ideas as to what is causing the problem or how to fix it. I have a nice digital camcorder and no way to stream/capture video to my computer.

Desperately in your debt,

Julie

[SVCDummy]

Okay. I think I've tripped over this before with other PCI bus controllers that are integrated into or plugged into VIA motherboards.

It is related to the order in which you may have installed the drivers for everything in the system when you re-loaded Win98. The only relaible way to fix it is to start over from the beginning and put load them in the correct order. Otherwise the system registry will always continue to try to use whatever is has stored and it almost always screws you up!

Soooooooo, here's the best approach:

Before you do anything!!! Make sure you have the correct motherboard drivers for your system. If you cannot find them on the original distribution CD's that came with the HP computer then try the one at this link:

http://www.pionex.com/drivers/pdriver.php?category=MOTHERBOARDS

The link should take you to the downloadable driver package for the computer you included in your profile information.

Make sure you unpack the driver set to a diskette so you can use it later on a Win98 re-install. (It should all fit on a diskette.)

One last thing before we start. Open up the case and remove the firewire card. If you do not do this the Win98 installation will automatically install a default driver for it before the VIA motherboard drivers could be installed and you will be back at square one again.

Now... for the rest of the story...

First of all... Make yourself a Win98se boot diskette as follows...
<Control Panel> <Add/Remove Programs> <Start-up Disk>

Then boot the PC with the starup disk and select the option that includes CD-Rom support (this is usually the default).

After the boot sequence it complete, format the hard drive partition that you boot from but do not include the /s switch. The Win98 installation will take care of that later and do a much nicer job of it as well.
(A:\ format C: )
At the end of the format process you will be prompted for a volume label. Be sure to give it a name! Any Name! just as long as it is 11 characters or less. While this may not seem important now, it can save you much headache later if you have disk problems.

When the format is complete, put your Win98se CD in the drive and at the prompt type SETUP and press the enter key to begin the Win98 install again.

As the Win98 process tries to bring the computer up for the first time it will attempt to identify all of the plug and play stuff in the system and then locate drivers for them. Do NOT give the system any of the driver disks for your cards!!! Let windows use the lowest common default for everything and most especially the VGA card and monitor.
(Standard 16 color VGA card, and Standard VGA monitor)

When Win98 finally boots up it will look like crap, but that is actually good when you are working with those old VIA type motherboards.

The very first thing you do after the successful boot up is to run the setup program from the diskette you made at the beginning of this process. Follow the instructions IN ORDER and install the motherboard drivers, all of them that apply to your board.

Then, after you reboot again, load your Graphics Card drivers and reboot again.

Next install the sound drivers (if they were not already done by the VIA diskette).

Next install any network card drivers.

And install any other drivers that you need for your basic system.

NOW you can shut down and re-install the firewire card. On reboot the Win98 system will prompt you that it has located the card and will install drivers for it. (It is now safe to do this because the VIA drivers are properly in place.)

You should now be able to load all your capture software and start life again.

The old VIA chipsets are really a pain in the ass to work with in WIndows.
The 2 problem areas with them are the VGA/AGP interfaces and the masterbus interface (which includes the firewire card).

Good Luck.

[thayne]

You need to upgrade to at least win 2000. Win 98 is aweful for video capture and you have a 4GB file size limit, which is about 15-20 min of DV it's also not at all stable.

[SVCDummy]

Yeah but the capture software that comes with most of those cards that claim Win98 compatibility will also automatically cut the vidoe into seperate chapters to fit in under the file size limit. It actually doesn't do all that bad for simple stuff, and you can always encode the captured AVI files to MPEG or DivX and then jion them together in any order you want later.

[MpegEncoder]

I'd highly recommend an upgrade to WinXP (and I'm no fan of M$). I have a multimedia PC that originally came with Win98SE and sometimes it worked OK and other time it didn't work (for DV capture). I could NEVER have preview turned on during capture in any case. Once I upgrade to XP captures are flawless with or without preview turned on.

[SVCDummy]

Ya know... a lot of people just don't get it!

If the registry is already screwed up due to mb drivers then when you run a M$ windows upgrade you'll only make the problem worse and you will have spent all that money for the upgrade package!

The only way to "upgrade" a system that is this messed up would be to use the full W2K or XP versions (which by the way cost twice as much as the upgrade version) and start as a fresh install which means you would then STILL have to reload the motherboard drivers in the correct order again! That's if you can even get the mb drivers for the newer versions of windows for a motherboard this old.

I don't think these upgrade pushers realize the impact of what they recommend. Working with older hardware is not a walk in the park and most people do not have or cannot afford multiple PC's just to experiment with. When their system goes down, they really are only interested in getting back to where they were before the problems arrived.

[doublejam97]

Thanks SVCDummy for your great effort to provide me a solution. I just have a few questions before I proceed with your suggestion.

First, it may be inane of me to ask; but, could I possibly just uninstall and remove the firewire card? Erase it from Windows memory. Then re-install like I did when I first got it? I'm nervous to do all the steps you mentioned.

Second, if the answer is a resounding NO, and that your suggestion is the only foolproof way, would I being doing a complete re-format/data wipe? I have a ton of data/software on this machine, mostly old video and pictures, and would hate the headache of trying to get it all backed up, though I do have DVD burner and should do so anyway...

Third, I don't really have a Win98SE CD. HP started that business of putting all the Win98SE info in the c:\Windows\Options\Cab files. So, I would need some direction as to how to pull windows setup from there at the point you say to do so from the CD. From the CAB files is how I re-installed Windows with no data loss.

Fourth, I do think on my HP Setup Disks that came with the system has all of the VGA and other drivers you mention. I have one problem and please don't laugh. It has been 2 years since I originally installed the firewire card. I don't recall having a CD with the drivers for it and I cannot find one (I'm usually so diligent about saving such things). But it is entirely possible that I have simply misplace it. Do you have a suggestion as to how I find out what card I have exactly and where I might find the correct drivers for download? All I know is that the host controller is called Texas Instruments OHCI compatible ....

Thanks for you help. I'm very married to my Win98SE, I haven't been able to give it up. I've upgraded my computer's hardware bit by bit (New Hard Drive, DVD burner etc), but stall when it comes to Windows. I do personal computer training for a living and everybody's XP gives me and them such a headache, especially with older peripherals. But eventually I will have to give in...

Sincerely,
Julie

[Redd]

IRQ/Hardware conflict.

Try your firewire card to a different PCI slot.

[SVCDummy]

I kinda thought you had a HP package deal.

How did you upgrade your hard drive?

Did you boot the HP distribution CD and load from there or did you do so other sort of disk image move from one drive to another?

Yes You could try the uninstall and re-install approach with the firewire card but I doubt it would work. But hell, it can't hurt to try.

The problems you are experiencing are related to the chipset on the motherboard. There is another possible way around this. You might want to try this next.

Uninstall the firewire card using the Control panel and when the system asks you to reboot answer NO but then immediately go through a normal system shut down and power off the PC.

Remove the firewire card from the system

Then perform your windows re-install from the cab files and let it re install all of the drivers. It is possible that the last time you did this the Win98 install found the firewire card before the mother board drivers were in place. Win98se automatically installs the dirver for the firewire as soon as it finds it. (that is why it didn't require a driver disk when you first got it)

After the Win98 install then use the HP distribution CD to install the motherboard drivers. If you are not sure where to fidn them or are afraid they are mixed in with other old software that you'd rather not install, then use the drivers downloaded fron the internet. It is important with all VIA chipset motherboards to install all of the motherboard drivers BEFORE any other high speed bus interfaces are enabled. Those are generally the disk interfaces, AGP interfaces, and USB or firewire interfaces.

Unfortuantely that is one of the shortfalls of the chipset. But knowing this gives you a better chance of recovering from it.

After you have installed the motherboard drivers, then shut down and re-install the firewire card. On power up Win98 will detect it and load the drivers again. There are no drivers needed for this card. they are part of the standard win98 package. If this works, then you are set.

If it doesn't the send me an email an I can point you to an ftp server wher you can get the items you are missing, but I'd rather not advertise the location here in the forum.

And YES you should in fact backup all of your important stuff! You should also try to locate all of your installation packages for the software you depend on most. That way in the even of a catastrophic failure you are covered.

Let me know how it goes. I've been in your shoes more than once. My email is in my profile.

Good Luck

[MpegEncoder]

Ya know... a lot of people just don't get it!

I agree that a clean install is the way to go. But in this case even an upgrade will fix a boat load of these types of problems. When I first "upgraded" from Win98SE to WinXP Pro, it fixed these for me. I later went back and did a clean install, which I think is the best solution.