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  1. Member
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    Hey all,

    Not to start a(nother) fight over which is or is not the right standard, but insider information from my neighbor, who is Product Manager at TEAC, tells me that there is no doubt the DVD+R/W will win the battle.
    ...these are his top 3 points.

    1) Cheaper (OEM, Royalty, Production)
    2) Faster (The technology behind DVD-R/W, means they can't keep up with the same speed)
    3) "Decided" (...among most OEM manufactors)

    So there you have it, don't come crying and say you didn't know


    Regards,
    John Brondum

  2. Member Faustus's Avatar
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    Not to start a(nother) fight over which is or is not the right standard, but insider
    Then why do so? Its all so very subjective. Why rehash this once a week. Please everyone do not start again, in the name of my sanity please!

  3. Member
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    flaystus,

    ...and I don't care.
    Don't even have a DVD writer of any sort myself yet, just thought I would pass on some insider information from my neighbor. You can take this information in any way you like, but that is what he told me (over a few beers).

    Don't shoot the messenger!


    Regards,
    John Brondum

  4. I didn't even know there was a battle since they both look and work the same way. What ever media has the lowest price and delivers the end result I desire is fine with me.

  5. Member Faustus's Avatar
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    It very well and good that you wanted to pass on some info. I was just commenting that this usually will turn into a huge mess of a topic. A quick forum search proves it. I ment no real offence with my comment, it was more a plea to everyone to not start this up again.

    Though I myself want to make a few comments on your points I will not. Simply by doing so I fuel the fires, its just not worth it. Use the format you like, the one that works and has some decent cheap media out there. When your done with it move on to the "winner" once everyone else figures out who that is.

  6. Member
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    He's from Denmark and has a neighbor in Denmark who knows somebody who knows something. And so if I eat a Danish (the food) in the morning will it make the price of DVD's go up or down. Who cares! In America, I am well paid, retired and will just keep on keepin on. Yes, I stole a line from an old REO Speedwagon song!

  7. Member
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    jdizzy40,

    Wrong!
    ...from Denmark correct, but now living in the US
    Los Angeles or should I say Anaheim Hills
    My neighbor works for TEAC in Montebello and is
    not the Product Manager like I thought, but looking
    at his business card; it says Division Manager - Data Storage Products Division
    ...but like I already said, take it or leave it.


    Regards,
    John Brondum

  8. Member
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    Sorry, leave it. Again, I don't think posting such a statement could be of any help to anyone on this site. Thus, statements like yours should of never been posted. And it doesn't matter where you live or who is your neighbor. Life will take it's own course. At this point in the game the consumer will get left with the choice of whats in the store and on the shelf. Anaheim? Still L.A.!

  9. The personal opinions of an employee of Teac (a company that makes these drives) hardly constitutes as being authoritive or even meaningful. I can be absolutely certain that the various workers at Sony were absolutely convinced that Beta was going to "win" over VHS as well.

    Otherwise, as per flaystus' post.

    As I have stated previously, the most likely scenario is that both standards will exist until the introduction and adoption of the replacement technology with newer DVD drives/mechanisms supporting both well.

    Regards.
    Michael Tam
    w: Morsels of Evidence

  10. Member
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    vitualis,

    Not like he is working in the warehouse, so I would give it some credit and properly more when it's over a beer - than in some interview/statement written by the PR department.

    TEAC is not betting on just one horse, so that comparision doesn't really work here I would say...

    ...but like I said earlier, I don't have or plan to buy a DVD Writer anytime soon; but when I do, I would for sure take this into my considerations.


    Regards,
    John Brondum

    P.S. Over the same beer or a beer later, I can tell you that TEAC in October will come out with a +/- drive, that is 8x plus and 4x minus - because of the difference in technology.

  11. The point is that TEAC is only ONE COMPANY and not one that is influential in these matters.

    Furthermore, the point of the Beta vs. VHS is that the technical superiority of one format over the other does not mean that it will "win". Beta was in many ways superior to VHS.

    Similarly Iomega's ZIP drives over SyQuest's drives (which had better capacity, were faster, and CHEAPER).

    And then, there is no reason why one should "win" at all -- e.g., secure digital, compact flash, memory stick (and the late comer xD) have all been relatively popular and still ALL exist (and are likely to do so for some time yet).

    You may be impressed with your neighbours comments and perhaps he is impressive. But I have never met him and from the information you have conveyed that you claim to be FROM him, I have heard nothing new. There is nothing there that suggests the conclusion that one tech is going to prevail over the other - and as stated in many threads before, there is not much technical difference (that matters to the ordinary consumer) between the standards that would make one more attractive than the other.

    If anything, marketing is what is going to "win" this format battle, not that I believe either side is going to "win" in any meaningful way.

    Regards.
    Michael Tam
    w: Morsels of Evidence

  12. Member
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    vitualis,

    TEAC surely don't set the trend, but that doesn't mean that they as a huge OEM supplier don't know what is moving around on the market.

    The consumers like you and me and most others here I would imagine, who put together our own system and are often so much "geeks" that we only see the good in hardware - often pay the price for that, since the best hardware don't always stand the best change of becoming a standard.

    These days the lowest cost/royalty/price becomes the standard and that he knows everything about, from various business trips around the globe doing what he does as the Division Manager

    I don't have any of the 2 "standards", but are just passing on some info that are so honest you might not see it on the usual online sources that you prefer to trust. Or on the expo, where he could properly only tell you what the PR guys would like him to.

    EDIT: Could not spell PR


    Regards,
    John Brondum

  13. Originally Posted by jbrondum
    These days the lowest cost/royalty/price becomes the standard...
    If anything, my response to you was to try to abolish these simplistic notions...

    The above is not necessarily true and there are many examples. Two I have already mentioned include ZIP vs. whatever the SyQuest format was called (Zip was more expensive) and to this day CompactFlash vs. SD vs. MemoryStick (compactflash is cheaper and faster and SD has the virtue of being really small but MemoryStick keeps on chugging).

    And if price is the only factor, it should be noted that -R media is still cheaper than +R media in many parts of the world...

    I don't have any of the 2 "standards", but are just passing on some info that are so honest you might not see it on the usual online sources that you prefer to trust.
    I have neither "standards" either. However, from what I can see, your neighbour's opinion is really only his own and from the reasoning you state he is claiming, has no more merit than many other members here who claim "+ is better" or "- is better".

    Best regards.
    Michael Tam
    w: Morsels of Evidence

  14. Member dcsos's Avatar
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    TEAC only supports the standards of its partner in the DVD field, PIONEER.
    It is a MEMBER of the DVD FORUM..supporters of the "-" format
    TEAC does not and is not considering membership in the +RW alliance
    TEAC spent 2 years ONLY supporting DVD-R as a member of the DVD FORUM.
    They continue to follow PIONEERS lead, only supporting + only because
    PIONEER added it to their newest drive the A06..

    until almost yesterday, TEAC only supported DVD-R only!
    So I too qustion one employee from a company that support the other format officially!!!!

    TEAC in October will come out with a +/- drive
    This is old news as they already re-badge the A06 (a 4x dual format drive by PIONEER)

    And I have real problems with a FORMAT( THE PLUS ONE) that :
    1. Can't use the DVD logo because they didn't join the forum
    2.. BLARES that its "THE BETTER FORMAT" all over its website

  15. Well I guess the reason that memory stick keeps on chugging is that Sony put them in every one of their products that uses removable memory. They have even come up with the new memory stick duo for particularly small devices like pda's and mobile phones, when I am sure they could have used some other existing format. I have a Sony Ericsson P800 and have no choice than to buy a memory stick duo, and they are damn expensive too. I dont blame them, they probrably make almost as much money from sales of the removable media as they do selling the equipment the removable media was made for. Good business sense really.

  16. Member kabanero's Avatar
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    vitualis,

    Why do you hate DVD-PLUS format so much?

  17. Member dcsos's Avatar
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    I'll take that question

    Because DVD was invented by a group of companies that set and liscensed the format
    THE DVD FORUM

    Then HewlettPackard and Phillips decided they could make more money by inventing their own format that would play back on the DVD FORUMS installed hardware.

    IT TOOK THEM 2 years to make a DRIVE that worked

    The owners of the original PLUS FORMAT drives are the winners of a massive class action lawsuit becuase PHILLIPS and HP made hardware that didn't work as advertised.

    Now the +RW alliance website is a wealth of mis-information about the competing format..and a BLATANT MARKETING propagandizer

    WHY DOESN'T the DVD FORUM site push DVD-R?
    because they don't have to ..It pushes itself..
    as the only real format liscensed to be called DVD

    are these enough reasons?
    Michael will add his reasons too!

  18. Member kabanero's Avatar
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    dcsos,

    Read this:
    http://www.dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html#4.3.5

    DVD+RW is an erasable format based on CD-RW technology. It became available in late 2001. DVD+RW is supported by Philips, Sony, Hewlett-Packard, Dell, Ricoh, Yamaha, and others. It is not supported by the DVD Forum (even though most of the DVD+RW companies are members), but the Forum has no power to set standards.
    Have a great Independence Day.

  19. Member dcsos's Avatar
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    you quoted
    but the Forum has no power to set standards
    correct it is a consortium of companies trying to make a GROUP STANDARD..

    unlike PHILLIPS and HP companies that did not invite industry participation when they developed their new standard..which was abandoned and is now obsolete..it was called DVD+RW 1.0

    the PLUS R is their second try..NOW THEY'RE joined by MICROSOFT (how much did that cost?)

    I found this further down on the page of DVD DEMYSTIFIED that you posted part of....
    DVD+RW backers claimed in 1997 that the format would be used only for computer data, not home video, but this was apparently a smokescreen intended to placate the DVD Forum
    And enjoy the fireworks!!!
    (as long as they're not coming from the DVD+R drive in your tower:-))

  20. TEAC don't make drives, they re-badge Pioneer drives. Don't know where this Danish guy is getting his info from, but people who re-badge gear aren't in a position to influence any market!

  21. Hi

    Philips are also guilty of hypocrisy and misleading every manufacturer out there.

    Philips was a founder member of the DVD Forum at its birth, and at that time Philips would stand to benefit from every manufacturer supporting what we now know as DVD Video, they got as many manufacturers to sign up to the forum as possible and pledge they would support the DVD format and promote a single standard. Philips raked it in and DVD Video became a worldwide success.

    When this same forum voted not to use Philips re-writeable technology (it wasn’t compatible with other equipment and had a lower capacity, and was barely in prototype stage and was soon scrapped), Philips did the very thing they told other companies not to do, introduce competing formats.

    No surprise really that when they got caught out not having a write-once format (Pioneer drives were leaping of the shelves) that they lied to every customer with promises of easy firmware upgrades. The class action lawsuit against HP is a legacy of that.

    Here is a tit bit of info that shows how dirty Philips played it. The DVD Forum took legal advice trying to stop Philips calling +RW DVD+RW, but found they could do nothing about it. Remember how DVD stood for Digital Video Disc, then Digital Versatile Disc as it was used for data as well, and eventually it was decided DVD stood for “nothing in particular”. Why? Well clever forward thinking by Philips copyrighters and legal teams removed any specific meaning from the letters DVD as part of their DVD Forum responsibilities, this means that the DVD Forum can not stop Philips using the letters D.V.D. This is because the letters have no specific meaning (for example, IBM stands for International Business Machines and they could stop you if you were using IBM as a company name, where as DVD is just D.V.D. and the letters themselves do not make a word), and there are legal restraints against trade marking or copyrighting letters of the alphabet, that makes sense as imagine having to pay royalties to MacDonald’s every time you needed to use the letter M!

    The DVD logo is trademarked as it is a graphical drawing and is why you never see it on the + media, but it can still be shown on recorders as they do play DVDs and are licensed for that. Philips has played it very dirty, and considering there is no difference in what you use, marketing aside, I prefer knowing my money isn’t going to Philips thank you very much

    Regards

    Philip

  22. Member
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    energy80s,

    At no time did I claim or my neighbor (Division Manager) claim that TEAC is in a position to influence the market and outcome of any potential common standard, but that these are his observations and most likely what his agenda is based on in his work; to make sure that TEAC are betting on the right products.

    I know what I know and you can take this either way you want, but since I learned a lot from coming here myself. I just thought that I would share some "insider" information with you guys. He could be wrong of course and there is no sure bet on anything, but I do hold his thoughts on this higher than some kid with a DVD-R/W; that would lie to himself, in order to justify whatever reasons he had to go with that standard.

    The price for the discs is not going to be a deciding factor here, that expensive is solely on the consumer and any Manufactor would care less about that. If we are going to talk money here, we need look at the cost for the OEM - that is where most drives will be coming from and anything there needs to be as cheap as possible (even more these days).

    Also the difference in technology seems like a great factor to me, that the speed of the DVD+R/W will always to faster. Not saying that it's better, just faster, and people in here might not look at that first when buying a drive - but that great majority of average consumers who buy these drives of the shelves will for sure.

    So all-in-all this makes sense to me and I'll take his words for it (for now), and remember - the good guys don't always win.


    Regards,
    John Brondum

  23. Originally Posted by jbrondum
    Not to start a(nother) fight over which is or is not the right standard, but
    SEE, YOU JUST F***ING STARTED AN OTHER ONE

  24. He: "-R is better!"

    She: "+R is better!"

    Me: "DVD-RAM is better"

    He and She:"Oh...we forgot about that format"


  25. Member
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    tompika,

    NO you just did!
    ...and other reply's as mature as this.

    If somebody from the inside of this and not just some guy from their warehouse, sits down with me and share his thoughts over a six-pack; I take that into consideration and I will keep that in mind if I ever go out to buy on of these drives.
    ...might still go for a dual to be safe, but will for sure consider his words.

    But what babbles me the most about this, is that some people here are so damn stuborn - they won't even consider any other alternative, than what I guess is sitting in their PC now. If somebody told me, that he has heard this and that from what sounds (on pixels) to be a decent source, on a subject that I cared much about, I would make a looong list of questions and sponsor another six-pack to get some more info out...
    ...but hey, do what you gotta do; he is still my neighbor!

    ...and none of us proclaims that one format is better than the other, just that he believes for the reasons above; that the DVD+R/W will come out on top.


    Regards,
    John Brondum

  26. Greetings Supreme2k's Avatar
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    Screw you all!!!

    8-track is going to wipe the floor with blu-ray, and have +R and -R as an after-dinner snack. Dual-layer? HAH! Try 8 freakin' tracks!!!



    Originally Posted by jbrondum
    But what babbles me the most about this...

    bab·ble
    v. bab·bled, bab·bling, bab·bles
    v. intr.
    1. To utter a meaningless confusion of words or sounds: Babies babble before they can talk.
    2. To talk foolishly or idly; chatter: “In 1977 [he] was thought of as crazy because he was babbling about supply side” (Newt Gingrich).
    3. To make a continuous low, murmuring sound, as flowing water.

  27. Originally Posted by jbrondum
    tompika,

    NO you just did!
    ...and other reply's as mature as this.

    If somebody from the inside of this and not just some guy from their warehouse, sits down with me and share his thoughts over a six-pack; I take that into consideration and I will keep that in mind if I ever go out to buy on of these drives.
    ...might still go for a dual to be safe, but will for sure consider his words.

    But what babbles me the most about this, is that some people here are so damn stuborn - they won't even consider any other alternative, than what I guess is sitting in their PC now. If somebody told me, that he has heard this and that from what sounds (on pixels) to be a decent source, on a subject that I cared much about, I would make a looong list of questions and sponsor another six-pack to get some more info out...
    ...but hey, do what you gotta do; he is still my neighbor!

    ...and none of us proclaims that one format is better than the other, just that he believes for the reasons above; that the DVD+R/W will come out on top.


    Regards,
    John Brondum
    Listen Johnny,

    I hope you`re not talking about me.
    As you could check I am a happy plus drive owner.
    But I don`t think any of us needs a FORMAT WAR (one of them just got shut down) now we are having two again---THANKS TO YOU.
    IT GOES NOWHERE.
    I hope the moderators are going to lock this one too.

  28. I'm confused why anybody cares
    [Repeat]
    Burn a DVD (-, +, whatever)
    Watch the movie
    Buy a new burner in 1 to 2 years (+,-,blue/yellow/red, whatever; just like you did with your CD burner)
    [/Repeat]

  29. Who cares? M$ won the browser wars, but Netscape is still here....

  30. Member
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    Ford or Chevy...
    Nissan or Honda...
    VHS or Beta...
    AOL or MSN...
    Sedan or sports car...
    Analog clock or digital...
    DSL or cable...

    You get the point yet?

    This argument reminds me of the movie DEMOLITION MAN where Taco Bell rules the world in terms of food. Do you all honestly think (insert media format here) will be like Taco Bell in that movie? Are you that narrow-minded?

    If you want my opinion on DVD-R and DVD+R, and where it is headed, look up my past posts. I'd rather not cut and paste it AGAIN because a few people want to start new wars rather than reading up on the old ones. And yes, what I wrote was pretty in-depth and worth a good read.
    I'm not online anymore. Ask BALDRICK, LORDSMURF or SATSTORM for help. PM's are ignored.




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