Is This Legal ???

[Doggiedaddy]

got me thinking

[tygrus2000]

I agree with, there are easier ways to make money than this. Running around doing house calls is gonna be an exercise in furstration when stuff doesnt work Dealing with others can always have a drawbacks. Also, lots of people may not want you coming to their house. I mean you are a stranger with no business credentials and I am gonna let you in my house for 6 hours to teach me computers. Not gonna happen.


Cecilio, go around all this, take the basics of the stuff you want to teach, write a manual, or make a website, charge up front and you are done. No follow up problems when things dont work out. You'll be happier in the long run.

[txpharoah]

Moreover, people trust tech support personnel cause they are associated with a company.

What you obviously fail to realize is that most tech support is provided by college students with same/less experience than what I can see coming from Cecelio. I rarely call them because I normally know more than they do.

So how the heck is this kid gonna attract clientelle away from the tech support people, especially since most tech support is free if the product is under warranty?

Tech support is NOT there to help you learn what to do, and many of these programs have NO TECH SUPPORT. Are you daft?

If this kid places a newspaper ad, that costs $100s per month.

This amount is ludicrous. Have you ever worked for a newspaper? I dare say you have not. I have, and your figures are well off the mark. Plus, Cecelio does NOT need to advertise in this method. In case you didn't fully read before runnning your fingers across the keyboard, this is a temporary freelance project to make more money.

I get offered hundreds of dollars per month to teach people, and because I don't have time for it, I turn them all down. I even turn down family. Having a kid like this in town would be great, as I'd refer thse individuals to him (well, eventually, after he begins to teach capturing and DVD burning, not just VCD stuff).

Also, what's he gonna do to cover his travel expenses? Unless he works for a company, running his own multipurpose tech support specializing in dvd burning is basically financial suicide.

Traveling across town? Expensive? Financial suicide? Have you ever even run your own business?

Some clients will blame him for damage on their computer or lost data. He (his parents) will then get sued for these things. Besides, lawyers are always hungry. They will slap on DMCA violations for breaking CSS encryption (you should know this by now). Even if the lawyers have a weak case, the kid has to hire his own costly counsel. It's just not worth it when you subtract the costs from the benefits.

This is by far the most retarded thing I've ever heard on these boards, in respect to legal situations and legal understandings.

He might as well sell lemonade. It's summer for crying out loud. People get thirsty. Just hire a cheap but cute kid to man the lemonade stand to attract customers.

In case you didn't read properly or have slipped through some sort of time-warp, this guy is 15, seems very intelligent, and selling lemonade is not something you do in the year 2003. Maybe when I was a kid, but not now.

Quit reading about these guys posting semi-credible-legal jargon

Nothing I've given is "jargon". If you want jargon, you need to come to my office on a day when we get into legal discussions. I've giving this info in layman's terms so people like yourself can actually understand it.

Let's look at the realities. The internet boom is over. No one is throwing money at everything technological anymore. The economic times are bad (job market is getting worse and worse), people are looking for necessities and cheap thrills, not extravagant luxuries. A fool and his money are getting more and more difficult to part.

I live on Earth in the year 2003 in the United States. My reality appears to be different than yours.

Cecilio got his info from other people's hardwork AND from these forums where it is at least implied that we should share the info FREELY. that's how these forums work...we help each other for free...we don't charge each other, prolly never will....that is the spirit of these forums. ............ this isn't someone who's taking some info to help some part of his business out...i.e. for video editing, etc... on the other hand, Cecilio is just going to rehash the info from here and make a profit............... but in the spirit of these websites and forums...the info should be shared for free

poopyhead, I normally respect your posts and you are normally on the mark, but this time I'm going to dig in to you. Sorry, it's got to be done.

This information on this site is free. If you cannot handle that, then quit posting here. People use it, and I dare say, as much as you may hate to hear it, FOR PROFIT! Oh no! People making money! What a crime! Get a life. If people take my advice, and use it for profit, good for them. What one person may consider "morally correct" or "the spirit" of the Internet is immaterial. This is how things are. Cope.

What I see in Cecelio is a kid that wants to be a teacher, wants to start his own business, and learn more about a technology that is just starting to become more popular. I see this guy going far, and if he needs money to succeed in life, and he plans to do it as legally as he has stated so far, then by God, you let him.

[tygrus2000]

txpharoah, can you give us an example of something, digital media wise, that is CLEARLY illegal??? I really want to know if there is anything out there you think is totally off limits?

[txpharoah]

txpharoah, can you give us an example of something, digital media wise, that is CLEARLY illegal??? I really want to know if there is anything out there you think is totally off limits?

Sure. Here's a few:

1. Renting movies, copying them, then returning them without owning the original.

2. Downloading trailers from studio websites, making your own discs, then selling it (or even giving it away free).

3. Restoring movies that are not yours, then because you think you did a good job, showing it off without the permission of the owners of the footage.

4. Copying movies and selling them when you are not the copyrights holder. Also applies to giving them away free. Any sort of unauthorized distribution is not allowed.

[Thought Copper]

What you obviously fail to realize is that most tech support is provided by college students with same/less experience than what I can see coming from Cecelio. I rarely call them because I normally know more than they do.

Yes, some college students work in tech support for companies with a worldwide reputation. What's your point? I believe you have just reiterated my point that a teenager simply doesn't have that worldwide rep to attract clients in such a niche market (people who buy dvd recorders and require paid help from a teenager rather than using free support from the company).

Tech support is NOT there to help you learn what to do, and many of these programs have NO TECH SUPPORT. Are you daft?

First off, company tech supports do offer useful assistance if you follow their step by step diagnosis process (lots of angry customers take shortcuts and refuse to follow step by step instructions which gets nowhere). Next, if a person is that incapable of using modern GUI programs and that person is not capable of following normal tech support, that customer is probably not worth one's time and effort. Do you really want this teenager to be exposed to extreme technophobes with absolutely no patience and don't follow instructions? It would waste all this kid's free time and wouldn't be worth the cost at the end. Cecilio be receiving phone calls forever from these technophobes who expect free lifetime service for paying $60 to a kid.

This amount is ludicrous. Have you ever worked for a newspaper? I dare say you have not. I have, and your figures are well off the mark. Plus, Cecelio does NOT need to advertise in this method. In case you didn't fully read before runnning your fingers across the keyboard, this is a temporary freelance project to make more money.

Gee, so customer will just magically flock towards him and his unpublished phone number? Silly kid, grow up. Effective advertisements costs hundreds a month (effective ads requires multiple sources running constantly i.e., phone book listing, newspaper, trade mags). Also, what makes you think his town is filled with people who own dvd recorders? Especially one's who need paid help? Gee, are you also a dvd recorder teacher with real experience in this matter and happen to live in the same city? If not, quit passing wind.

I get offered hundreds of dollars per month to teach people, and because I don't have time for it, I turn them all down. I even turn down family. Having a kid like this in town would be great, as I'd refer thse individuals to him (well, eventually, after he begins to teach capturing and DVD burning, not just VCD stuff).

Don't flatter yourself. The fact is you don't make hundreds each month to teach people how to burn dvds. All the excuses in the world won't change that. Besides, you don't sound very rational (you are in fact rather vulgar and unrefined by the way you constantly post and insult people to make up for your lack of self esteem) and you make waaay too many assumptions, jump to too many conclusions, try to make points without any evidence, making you a very poor tech support personnel.

Traveling across town? Expensive? Financial suicide? Have you ever even run your own business?

This is a clear example of your poor logic. He's a kid. How do you know he has a car? How do you know he gets free gas? How do you know his town or neighbors own dvd recorders and need help copying dvds? Do you live in his town? Do you even know where he lives? Do you even know the statistics of the general population who own dvd recorders? It's not very high at all. So, in most liklihood, he will have to be doing some distant traveling to service clients which costs a lot to a kid without a job or a trust fund (and if he had a trust fund, why would be be looking for extra money doing this kind of risky work).

Some clients will blame him for damage on their computer or lost data. He (his parents) will then get sued for these things. Besides, lawyers are always hungry. They will slap on DMCA violations for breaking CSS encryption (you should know this by now). Even if the lawyers have a weak case, the kid has to hire his own costly counsel. It's just not worth it when you subtract the costs from the benefits.

This is by far the most retarded thing I've ever heard on these boards, in respect to legal situations and legal understandings.

I think you mean it's the most prevailing reason not to advertise and not to start his dvd copying business (since it does involve decrypting CSS on another person's dvds which will attract MPAA lawyers). Obviously, you lack the verbal and mental skills necessary to make a point so you resort to the lowest, self-defeating tactic ... call something stupid or "retarded" and yet you cannot refute it (showing that you are the retarded and pathetic one).

He might as well sell lemonade. It's summer for crying out loud. People get thirsty. Just hire a cheap but cute kid to man the lemonade stand to attract customers.

In case you didn't read properly or have slipped through some sort of time-warp, this guy is 15, seems very intelligent, and selling lemonade is not something you do in the year 2003. Maybe when I was a kid, but not now.

In case you didn't read carefully, I was giving Cecilio advice not you. Also, I advised him to manage a lemonade stand being manned by a cute kid. Managing traditional business is nothing to scoff at but I guess you wouldn't know since you most likely never managed anything.

Nothing I've given is "jargon". If you want jargon, you need to come to my office on a day when we get into legal discussions. I've giving this info in layman's terms so people like yourself can actually understand it.

Actually, you've posted nothing useful nor accurate on this forum. That's not an insult, it's a fact. I and many others always felt your posts were annoying, highly flawed and useless, just so you know (so you can try to improve yourself ... yes I'm that understanding and generous with wisdom). Also, it appears you're so desparate for money that you require me as a client. Sorry, buddee I would humiliate you in all aspects of knowledge and skills ... you'd be in shambles.

Let's look at the realities. The internet boom is over. No one is throwing money at everything technological anymore. The economic times are bad (job market is getting worse and worse), people are looking for necessities and cheap thrills, not extravagant luxuries. A fool and his money are getting more and more difficult to part.

I live on Earth in the year 2003 in the United States. My reality appears to be different than yours.

Wow, you seem illiterate and unable to locate your precise location other than stating I live on Earth. I was addressing Cecilio in case you haven't noticed. The post was started by him and this thread was supposed to be giving him advice not to help you locate your precise location (which suggest you need further grade school education).

poopyhead, I normally respect your posts and you are normally on the mark, but this time I'm going to dig in to you. Sorry, it's got to be done.

This information on this site is free. If you cannot handle that, then quit posting here. People use it, and I dare say, as much as you may hate to hear it, FOR PROFIT! Oh no! People making money! What a crime! Get a life. If people take my advice, and use it for profit, good for them. What one person may consider "morally correct" or "the spirit" of the Internet is immaterial. This is how things are. Cope.

TXDood is way beyond ignorance and imbecility. Whether you like it or not, Copyright Law is becoming more and more prevalent in consumer lives. Freely distributed info or not, there are rules and laws to be followed when using this infomation with costly repurcusions by those who do not follow the rules.

What I see in Cecelio is a kid that wants to be a teacher, wants to start his own business, and learn more about a technology that is just starting to become more popular. I see this guy going far, and if he needs money to succeed in life, and he plans to do it as legally as he has stated so far, then by God, you let him.

TXDood, are you the split personality of Cecilio? I thought Cecilio was a kid who wanted to earn some bucks for the summer? I didn't know he had a degree and technical certifications and was applying to teaching positions at a Technology School as a full time job. Oh wait, TXDood, you just made yourself a silly ASSumption again.

[Cecilio]

[quote="Thought Copper"]

TXDood, are you the split personality of Cecilio? I thought Cecilio was a kid who wanted to earn some bucks for the summer? I didn't know he had a degree and technical certifications and was applying to teaching positions at a Technology School as a full time job. Oh wait, TXDood, you just made yourself a silly ASSumption again.

actually Cooper i am going to do all the things you stated above, just not now. when i go to college and get my degree then things will really kick off. and no he wasn't ASSuming, every now and then we pm each other, and i told him all of that. so your the one doing all the ASSUMING.

[txpharoah]

and you make waaay too many assumptions, jump to too many conclusions, try to make points without any evidence, making you a very poor tech support personnel.

Funny. A pot calling the kettle black.

start his dvd copying business (since it does involve decrypting CSS on another person's dvds which will attract MPAA lawyers).

I don't remember this being part of his business model.

I and many others always felt your posts were annoying, highly flawed and useless, just so you know

Wow. All of a month and 9 posts later, and you know everything I've ever written, all 1700+ posts and every single PM. Guess I can't argue with you, you seem to know everything.

If Cecelio needs anything else, he knows how to PM me. Same for anybody else.

I think this thread has run out it's usefulness.

Bye. Have fun with the flame wars you've started.

[Thought Copper]

[quote="Cecilio"]

TXDood, are you the split personality of Cecilio? I thought Cecilio was a kid who wanted to earn some bucks for the summer? I didn't know he had a degree and technical certifications and was applying to teaching positions at a Technology School as a full time job. Oh wait, TXDood, you just made yourself a silly ASSumption again.

actually Cooper i am going to do all the things you stated above, just not now. when i go to college and get my degree then things will really kick off. and no he wasn't ASSuming, every now and then we pm each other, and i told him all of that. so your the one doing all the ASSUMING.

You were looking to make money this summer, right? Well, there we go then.

I'm curious if you decided to risk the wraith of DMCA and the uncertainty of the dvd copying teaching profession over safer traditional summer jobs.

Dvd copying knowledge is nice to know but I don't know anyone that is willing to pay for it when it's freely available and especially since it's hard to give guarantees of success when you are working with another person's computer and software (which may be unstable or defective). Also, most people who buy dvd recorders have done the research necessary and have the computer skills to succeed (or have computer knowledgeable friends who can help them freely). Why else would they splurge on such new (non-standardized--DVD-R and DVD+R are still at odds) technology and risk not being able to use it?

Do your research kid before you let someone (who you only PM but never met) lead you down the path to debt and lawsuits. Starting a business is a serious deal. Start with something you can handle and that you know can definitely make money (e.g., traditional businesses). Don't bank on on pipe dreams.

[txpharoah]

Dvd copying knowledge is nice to know but I don't know anyone that is willing to pay for it when it's freely available

Well I never thought of that. Since I know how to cook, I think I'll refuse to go to restaurants too. And while I'm at it, I learned how to make my own paper once too, so I'll quit buying it at Office Depot.

As far as the "knowledge" being free, it assumes the user has Internet, and at a speed higher than 56k. Have you ever tried opening this site on dial-up? The PHP is nasty, not something I could do more than a few minutes at most before getting fed up at the speed of this place. And all that time involved to read and shuffle though the mountains of info on this site... I sure hope they've got time. Wouldn't it be convenient if somebody did all that instead, and just showed me what to do, even if it costs some bucks? I think this is the philosophy that started the educational system. Some become teachers, others are students. Those that don't want to be either can fend for themself.

See that last paragraph Cecelio? That's why you're going to get customers. It's an impatient world. That's why fast food and tv dinners sell so well, even if it does taste like crap compared to home cooking.

And many of your customers may well think finding out about dvdrhelp.com from you ALONE is worth the money. Then all that added walk-throughs. Wow! What a benefit. It really is a good deal to some. And let's not forget that some people CANNOT learn by reading alone. There are hands-on techniques.

If you are really concerned about DMCA, then don't believe any of us. Heck, don't even believe me if you don't want to. After all, that information is free too. Go read it. Your school probably has access to Lexis/Nexis. Read up a few dozens cases, as well as the Supreme Court landmarks over the past 30 years. Pay close attention to the ones from the past 5 years. Unfortunately, it'll probably confuse you, so find a friend or relative that's got legal experience (and I don't mean unpaid parking tickets).

[Thought Copper]

Wow. All of a month and 9 posts later, and you know everything I've ever written, all 1700+ posts and every single PM. Guess I can't argue with you, you seem to know everything.

Thanks for finally bowing out aftering being completely unable to counter my arguments and unable to justify your bad advice.

By the way, your 1700+ posts show that you've got too much idle time and clearly not much business to have so much time to be constantly posting here, flaunting faulty info with an always with a less than polite attitude in hopes of nursing your low self esteem.

I realize you've now resorted to PM to hide your bad advice from public scrutiny. But remember, Cecilio is just a kid. No need to lead him down the miserable mistaken path that you've taken. Besides, he's just looking to make summer cash not to test the patience of DMCA and MPAA lawyers.

[txpharoah]

By the way, your 1700+ posts show that you've got too much idle time

You're telling me. What's a guy to do while his disc is burning/compiling or the video is rendering? I used to play Solitaire or read the newspaper. That's at work. Of course, that's only on days when everything else is done. Typically Thursday or Friday. I don't just do video work. This site became a great escape when I published my last journal article, though I now am looking for another diversion, and I've got projects looming where I'll be offline more than not, as well as out of town.

Oh, did the eBay thing too, but I bought too much stuff for no reason. BAD place to kill time. All those deals.

Got any ideas? Anybody know of a site that shows solitaire games? I've got a good deck of cards I take with me on trips.

I'm home now, so I'll go off in a few minutes when dinner is ready. just on to check personal e-mail and PM.

Have fun posting/flaming, whatever you want to call it. -TX

[Thorn]

What you obviously fail to realize is that most tech support is provided by college students

Isn't tech support being outsourced to India nowadays? Seriously, what I saw was a large percentage of retirees and people with innefectual degrees (if any).

So how the heck is this kid gonna attract clientelle away from the tech support people, especially since most tech support is free if the product is under warranty?

You're a few years late on that statement... many companies have migrate to online self-help or fee-based support. Cecilio's target clientelle are the kind that don't want to figure it all out themselves. Anyway, do we really want to cultivate a culture of "just call tech support"?

Anway, one last note to the naysayers: You can learn a lot about business even if you don't make much money the first time around. If you sit around and do nothing you make no money and learn nothing.

And yea, this thread is starting to turn into a flame war, but there's no point in trying to convert the fanatics. I think Cecilio's question was answered.

[Thought Copper]

Bye.

So much for your bye and hence another of your lies. I thought you were done with self humiliation by your lack of knowledge.

If you are really concerned about DMCA, then don't believe any of us. Heck, don't even believe me if you don't want to. After all, that information is free too. Go read it. Your school probably has access to Lexis/Nexis.

Read carefully. I'm not the one backing up other people dvds for them using DeCSS (which has severe legal repurcusions) as a job. You're in fact asking Cecilio to do that. By operating a business and advertising, Cecilio will be sure to met by cease and desist letters by MPAA. Recall all the programming/reverse engineering groups, software companies, modification companies, academics, have been enjoined and some fined by the power of DMCA. And these groups are more likely to have legal counsel and funds available. Do you think Cecilio as a teenager is in good position to defend himself without access to computerized legal research and knowledge of judicial procedure? Do you think he can even afford a serious attorney at his age? No, I didn't think so. So, why are you asking him to become the sacrificial lamb for your insidious amusement?

[tygrus2000]

txpharoah, i get a sense from your profile that you are mostly doing VHS to DVD conversions as your business. If its home movies you are converting, thats cool, however, if its people's hollywood movie collections, wouldnt that violate your examples #3 and 4?

People may own a movie, but they dont own the rights to distribute or copy it, so even someone who has paid for it doesn't earn those rights. Unfortunately, if they want a DVD version, they have to go buy it again. I am not saying its right or fair or not a cash grab, but thats how the copyright law interprets it.

The only place where the video recording crowd had a victory was back in the early 80s when a court ruled that you could record a TV show that is in the public broadcasting domain. Believe it or not, that was illegal for a period. Same as recording your music cd to a tape. Some jurisdictions still view these as illegal activites and have taxed blank media as a way to counter it. Unfortunately straight DVD to DVD copying, or VHS capturing to DVD would be probably be interpreted by a court as illegal and not fair use of copyrighted material.

[Thought Copper]

You're a few years late on that statement... many companies have migrate to online self-help or fee-based support. Cecilio's target clientelle are the kind that don't want to figure it all out themselves. Anyway, do we really want to cultivate a culture of "just call tech support"?

How many people do you know who purchase dvd recorders don't want to figure it out or don't have the friends who could help them? My point was this particular group of people/clientelle is rather rather low, versus people who don't know how to use say MS Access or MS Excel and are trying to get a job who require MS programs. Remember, burning dvds is a recreation for the tech savy and made easier by the likes of programs like Instant Copy. Learning business software is more of a necessity where more people are willing to pay to learn since people's jobs require knowledge of using business software.

Anway, one last note to the naysayers: You can learn a lot about business even if you don't make much money the first time around. If you sit around and do nothing you make no money and learn nothing.

I'm fairly certain Cecilio wants to make money this summer. That was his initial point. Sure he can start a business in the future and go through an official business plan. But, I think most teens would just like to earn some bucks right this summer to pay for teen expenses.

Sure rich Uncle Joe might donate a few bucks to make Cecilio happy to start his dvd copying teaching profession but how many people do you know have dvd recorders and have problems getting it to work and are will to pay a significant fee like $60 to a teen in hopes of getting it to work? The obvious answer is not that many. Even if Cecilio were to tap this small market, his advertising and travel fees would far exceed his profit. That was my point. And that's before considering all the legal costs.

If Cecilio was teaching a course at the local Community Education Center on how to use MS Office Products, then that would attract far more clientelle and would be far more sensible. But, he'd still need special permits, permissions, etc.

I think Cecilio's question was answered.

Me too. Simply put, there are far easier, less risky ways to make money especially at his age. And if he wants to personally overturn DMCA (more power to him), that's many years away after finishing college, law school, and paying off student loans.

[poopyhead]

@txpharoah, you think Cecilio's clients will not have DVD burners??? you think they're not gonna ask him if they can duplicate copyrighted works in any way...sure, they may ask him some legal stuff (i.e. backing up DV, editing own videos, but i'm sure they're gonna pop the question of how to "backup" commercial DVDs) as for now while DMCA still stands, even making personal backups of one's own DVDs is considered illegal if breaking the CSS encryption. It's worse if the DVDs belong to someone else or are rented.

of course, we all have done that at one time or another...but we're NOT advertising for it...and we're NOT getting paid to show other ppl how to do it....

------------

this, of course, is not my concern...i wouldn't care less if Cecilio got caught...more importantly is how Cecilio's actions will affect the rest of the forum members, creators of these websites, authors of those incredible guides, and authors of freeware. legally, and illegally, he can do whatever he wants...but that's not my concern. what do you think is going to happen when the author of a freeware finds out this kid is making money off of his hardwork. this kid's not gonna read the license..he's just gonna give it away (and charge for it). the author of the freeware prolly won't be too happy...and might not make more...how's that gonna affect the rest of us...

i.e. w/ DVDshrink, i thought when the author discovered a rippoff of his program someone was selling for a profit, he wasn't going to revise DVDshrink anymore....good thing he did continute...however, Cecilio is acting exactly like those ppl

the same goes with these websites, forums, guides, etc.... these were intended to be shared freely...we don't charge each other....if i help your DV editing in any way for your business...why not..good for you...however, if you just rehash what ppl said and make money off of it, what's anyone's motivation to help you???? who's gonna create anymore free guides if someone's just gonna take it and sell it for profit???

--------------

BUT, what Cecilio should concentrate on (which i've mentioned several times...but it just swooshes over Cecilio's head) is his personal contribution. he should show his clients where to download the freeware (thus, making it clear..it's not his and they're not paying him for the freeware)...he should also let them know there are guides out there for him to follow, using those freeware...maybe even should them www.vcdhelp.com . This shouldn't be a big deal to Cecilio, right???? As others have mentioned...these websites, forums are his competition??? It would only be his competition if he's just providing the freeware and the info that he rehashed from here. If that's the case, SHAME on him. Otherwise, his clients would be paying for hands on tutorials, tech support, troubleshooting afterwards (since Cecilio can't possibly cover all the exceptions...there will always be problems, hence..these forums)...so his clients will be paying for his personal teaching time..and not really for the info...since reading about it and being shown how to do it live is very different...and perhaps having a teacher watch you while you do it yourself for the first time is worth paying for. hence, Cecilio will have to earn money by taking phone calls and e-mail tech support problems that come up...but since Cecilio wants the big bucks vs. McDonald's money...then, he's gonna have to do more than give freeware away and rehash some info

[txpharoah]

txpharoah, i get a sense from your profile that you are mostly doing VHS to DVD conversions as your business

My profile says only a little because it's limited in characters. The info in the profile is why I'm at this site, not a representation of what I do on a regular basis.

Unfortunately, if they want a DVD version, they have to go buy it again.

No. Absolutely not. We are FULLY ALLOWED to backup our content, and I can legally convert a casette to DVD-Audio, CD or even back to a record. I'm not stuck using ONLY cassette to backup a cassette. I can convert as well as backup the DVD to VHS, or vice versa. Please re-read the laws and court cases concerning time-shifting and fair-use backup allowances. it is CONTENT-BASED, not media-based.

I really hate talking to legal ignorants. Please get a lawyer so he can talk some sense into you.

[Cecilio]

damn poopey head i am not going to sell software i am going to make a cd full of freeware, and give it away for free. and yes i do read the licences. i am giving away the cd away as a bonus for him paying me {to teach him/her not only how to learn how to burn using a dvd burner-tough copper} i am also going to teach the client how to make VCDS, SVCDS, XVCDS, XSVCDS, CVDS, SVCDS, KVCDS, MINI DVDS, AND FINALLY DVDS. yea people might have dvd burners and know how to use it, but they might want to know how to fit more than one movie on there dvd-r/+r. oh and i am not going to back up someone elses dvds. i am going to take my own dvds and teach them how i did it and they just do as i did, using there own dvds. so i am not doing anythign illegal. and i know i can easily defend myself from somethings that are legal, and illegal.

[poopyhead]

oh and i am not going to back up someone elses dvds. i am going to take my own dvds and teach them how i did it and they just do as i did, using there own dvds. so i am not doing anythign illegal. and i know i can easily defend myself from somethings that are legal, and illegal.

as the DMCA still stands, breaking the CSS encryption on a commercial DVD is considered to be ILLEGAL. even backing up your own DVDs for "fair use" would still be considered illegal under the DMCA. This obvious roadblock between fair use and DMCA still needs to be resolved, but until then, DMCA still rules. so, can you defend yourself?? breaking CSS encryption for your own personal use is one thing, but advertising it to "old foggies" is another. Someone might read your ads and report it....i personally wouldn't care because you're trying to make money off of it, rather than just personal enjoyment.

as long as you make sure to let the clients know the freeware is completely free and they could get it w/o you for free...and also, not rehashing the info from guides and these websites/forums..then, i would be fine.

only you know how much risk you're willing to take when you publically advertise about breaking the DMCA...however, that's not my concern.

[tygrus2000]

txpharoah, unfortunatetely you have taken the most liberal interpretation of the law that you can and justified your business on it, much like the owners of Kazzaa and Napster did. I dont think you are a lawyer, even though you claim some sort of similar knowledge. I do legal contracts in my day job and had university training in it for my degree so you are way off base when you call some one a legal ignorant.

Sure you are allowed to take your cd and copy it to tape, or your movies if you are the owner. Its called personal use and its legal. Same as recording your fav. TV episode. What is not legal is you doing it for others and charging for the service. You have no rights to the propery since you are not the owner.

Sorry bud, your business is not legal no matter how you like to think so. If you think it is, then post a legal precedent where it is has been permitted. Napster and Kazza stay in business because they dont manipulate the digital content, so they did not create or alter it. When you convert someone elses movies or audio files, you are manipulating it and that is against royalty, copyright and host of other laws. It is media based and its format based as well.

I thought Texas had laws

[Cecilio]

You have no rights to the propery since you are not the owner.

Sorry bud, your business is not legal no matter how you like to think so. If you think it is, then post a legal precedent where it is has been permitted.

jeez can't you read i am not going to even gonna use his film to convert it. i am gonna use my own dvd and i am gonna back it up in front of him/her. and he can do his own. get it he is backing up his/her own movie for his/her own private use. so if you tell me i dont think im breaking any laws here.

[tygrus2000]

Cecelio, that message wasnt directed at you.

However, you are going to show someone how to back up their own dvds using software that uses DeCSS or some other decryption algorythm. I would say that is very borderline illegal as someone else pointed out earlier. Just being in possesion of that code could be cause for trouble. The guy that invented it and didnt have a dvd copying business was chased down pretty hard but he was a minor and got off.

[poopyhead]

so if you tell me i dont think im breaking any laws here.

just glossed over my previous post, eh??

DMCA....break any CSS encryption is illegal (even for "fair use" or personal backup is irrelavent, as currently stands...still need for the courts to sort out the DMCA vs. "fair use"...but until that is resolved, DMCA still applies)

most of us prolly have broken the DMCA before, but the difference is that we do it for personal use, while you are doing it for business...(i.e. making profit from breaking DMCA's rules) and also advertising that you're going to break DMCA's rules

[Cecilio]

so if you tell me i dont think im breaking any laws here.

just glossed over my previous post, eh??

DMCA....break any CSS encryption is illegal (even for "fair use" or personal backup is irrelavent, as currently stands...still need for the courts to sort out the DMCA vs. "fair use"...but until that is resolved, DMCA still applies)

most of us prolly have broken the DMCA before, but the difference is that we do it for personal use, while you are doing it for business...(i.e. making profit from breaking DMCA's rules) and also advertising that you're going to break DMCA's rules

hmmm I see wow never thought about it like that. well you have a very good point and i can't argue with that.

[Cecilio]

wow this post has gone pretty long i mean in only 11 days were already on page 6.

[txpharoah]

I thought Texas had laws

Again, you assume too much. My freelance business is based off restorations of home movies. My day job is new content creation and distribution, among other things. People can copy their own stuff, and that's the legal limits of it. The law protects self-backups. This really isn't all that hard to understand when you work with media law every day. Whatever, you people have fun. I'm about sick of this thread. Some people just don't understand certain concepts. Good luck in life you guys. This is ridiculous.

As of right now, backing up and breaking CSS is not illegal. The DMCA does not cover CSS specifically, and the law cannot overturn a Supreme Court ruling. Read up on DMCA and CSS as it stands now: http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1104_2-1024566.html. In case you don't want to read, I'll give you the short form: the jury's still out, and in the "innocent until proven guilty" legal system, as of right now, you're still innocent. Plus know that TEACHING is different from DOING IT YOURSELF (and NO, the Al Queda/terrorist analogy is an apples-to-oranges comparison, as that is a threat to national security).

[poopyhead]

As of right now, backing up and breaking CSS is not illegal. The DMCA does not cover CSS specifically, and the law cannot overturn a Supreme Court ruling. Read up on DMCA and CSS as it stands now: http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1104_2-1024566.html. In case you don't want to read, I'll give you the short form: the jury's still out, and in the "innocent until proven guilty" legal system, as of right now, you're still innocent. Plus know that TEACHING is different from DOING IT YOURSELF

1) the MPAA can use the DMCA to cover CSS, even though it may not directly state so. in fact, DMCA is so broad that office retailers (i.e. staples) have gone as far as to use the DMCA to prevent people from posting scans of sales flyers before they are out.

2) your link doesn't work

We were unable to find the page you requested.

If you arrived here by typing a URL, please make sure the spelling, capitalization, and punctuation are correct, then reload the page by hitting the Enter or Return key on your keyboard.

3) i'm not sure exactly what you're trying to say as the difference between "TEACHING" and "DOING IT YOURSELF". keep in mind, Cecilio, will be teaching by example...which means he will be breaking the CSS encryption in front of someone else. Even worse, he will most likely be advertising such a fact...maybe not directly like "break CSS," but more indirectly like "learn to backup your DVDs." either way still requires Cecilio to break CSS. personally, "DOING IT YOURSELF" is not nearly as risky as "TEACHING." 1) you're not spreading the fact that you are breaking the DMCA. 2) you're not directly making money off of breaking CSS

-------

like i mentioned before, it's up to Cecilio exactly what he wants to "teach." legally, he could teach someone to back up their homemade movies and DV onto DVD, but "backing up" one's own commercial DVDs, thus, requiring the breaking of CSS, is a bit more sticky.

[txpharoah]

2) your link doesn't work

Kill that period at the end. Try it again:
http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1104_2-1024566.html

1) you're not spreading the fact that you are breaking the DMCA.

Please, in detail, with court cases to back it up (as they are the litmus tests to verify law), and full legal terminology, with references, explain what exactly is illegal here, in regards specifically to backing up your content from one media format to another.

I've just got to hear it.

And please, none of that generic "breaking code" non-sense, as your anti-virus system "breaks" code to repair files. "Breaking" code, without malicious or otherwise illegal intent, is just fine. When you are exercising your own legal right to backup media, what exactly is wrong? By what allowances are media companies allowed to rewrite our Consitutional rights (so described as the outcomes of the Supreme Court in cases regarding such matters)?

Please bring me up to speed with the information where ya'll seem to derive your opinions and knowledge on this subject.

Even though I write articles on the subject, I must've had my head in the sand. I'm being sarcastic, of course, but I'd seriously like to get some explanations as to the source of such outrageous information.

No offense intended, but both Cecelio and myself live in the U.S., so we need answers that apply to this one little strip of land in the world. I'd prefer answers from U.S. citizens only or those well versed in our laws.

[adam]

txpharoah that link is a dead end for me, do you have another because I disagree with your conclusion. NO the DMCA doesn't specifically mention CSS protection, but that's the whole reason people are mad about it. Many of the people who worked on that legislation stated that it was never meant to apply to CSS protection, and the law specifically states that it does not preement Fair Use which would probably conver backups, but the law basically forbids reverse engineering, and that DOES cover CSS protection. You are innocent until proven guilty but I don't see what that matters. No one has to ever be found guilty under a law for that law to be binding. Federal legislation is the law of the land unless preempted, amended, or struck down judicially. As the law stands right now, it IS illegal to bypass CSS protection under DMCA and thus it is illegal to backup most commercial DVDs.

If anyone were ever prosecuted under the DMCA for backing up their own DVDs they would probably have a strong Fair Use defense, but until things change the law is the law.

As others have said, this is probably not the most lucrative business model, but that wasn't the question. Is showing people how to use their dvd burners illegal? Of course not. Is showing people how to bypass CSS protection illegal? As of right now, in the US, YES it is. Other than that, everything seems perfectly legal.