Tygrus, much of what you have in the past few posts is entirely incorrect, from a legal standpoint. Normally, I'd point out mistakes, but honestly, on this ocassion, I don't have that much free time on my hands. That's how far off base you are right now.
Housepig maybe should've stated a few things better, but regardless of his wordings, he's not made any mistakes on the legal interpretations of media law nor software licenses/copyrights.
And no, simply MAKING something does not make it copyrighted. That's a BIG mistake to assume that. I've seen judges rail complainants because they were that stupid to assume that was really how the law worked.
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I'm not online anymore. Ask BALDRICK, LORDSMURF or SATSTORM for help. PM's are ignored.
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well you all keep on arguing about this whole law thing, i am going to go watch T2 but the ultimate edition hey its still good.
An all in one guide for DVD to CVD/SVCD/DVD by cecilio click here--> https://www.videohelp.com/forum/userguides/167502.php -
txpharoah, if we weren't in a digital world, I would disagree with you since when it comes to most things outside of that world, my interpretation of the legality is right on the money. Sorry, but I have been through a few law classes.
Now I admit that the information revolution has totally changed that, but the courts are trying to apply the same rules to digital media, maybe unsuccessfully. One night I reserached this in depth, especially about digital photos and the courts have recognized that the "taker" of that content is the copyright owner, regardless if they have a statement or symbol or whatever on the photo. If this applies to something like this, then its reasonable that any such created content is protected in the same way.
Here is a website and reference to the act that enabled this interpretation:
http://www.trankin.com/traadvisor/photos.htm
and a excerpt:
"According to the Act, any original creative work is protected from the moment it assumes tangible form. An author (or creator) does not have to register his copyright, nor does the work have to display that little circular "c." Protection is automatic and exists from the moment of inception. Registering the copyright with the U.S. Copyright office and displaying the little "c" only serves public notice of the copyright; it does nothing to enhance or even legitimize it."
Sorry, the but US gov't is way ahead of us here.
Tygrus -
Actually, here is a good website about internet copyright.
Cecilio could technically be in violation of the derivative works clause.
http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html -
Cecilio,
Heck, being 4 times your age isn't funny.
The only good thing about it is retirement is getting closer and closer, and I can hardly wait.
No, it isn't that the shirts look old; it's that they're the patterns and colors I would wear. Well, most of them. The sports shirts wouldn't look good on me, or the shiny ones.
I do, however, actually have a few that ARE nearly 3 times your age, like a Navy (that's USNavy) shirt from 1963, and a custom made, pure silk, French cuffed one, bought while my boat was tied up in Greece about 63 or 64.
I just went to the other machine to click the "advanced" option, and, son'o'magun, I can resize to CVD. Thanks, again. Still gonna DL 1.1.3.
The only concern I have with your project is, how do you get these "pupils" to wait for a convert. I am gonna have to try your guide to see if it knocks time off a convert, but all mine take, maybe, 8 to 12 hours. Small pieces, or what? You can't keep them sitting for that long.
And, you know, as someone else said, you probably COULD make a bundle (more than chump change ) teaching these same people how to convert their VHS tapes to CD, DVD. Everyone who could afford it had a video camera 10, 15, 20 years ago. These tapes are getting so old they might be almost unwatchable today.
If you can help these, again, old farts, save some precious memories, they will not only pay you, they will thank you, from the bottom of their hearts.
You don't remember 20 years ago, when Kodak, for one, changed their film movie cameras on a yearly basis. 8mm, Super 8mm, cartridge 8mm, but next year, no more cartridges. The film cap might be out of your reach, right now, but almost everyone had shoeboxes full of unwatchable films. Something to keep in mind for the future.
Today, everyone probably has VHS tapes that could use conversion to a DVD or VCD or something. At least the optical drives will be here for the foreseeable future, so, in 5 years, if they need converted to the new format, it's digital, can do.
Just some thoughts.
Again, good luck.
And, remember, illegitematus non carborundum. -
Tygrus, what you fail to realize is that the moment two parties go to court to BOTH claim ownership of the work, you'd be, as we say down here in Texas, "up a shit creek without a paddle".
There's a Pamela Anderson case I'd like to use as an example concerning this, but I forget which one it was. Late 90s. I'll have to dig it out. It's been years since I last looked at it. I'd have to re-review the case files again. They're somewhere.
As far as that link, I'd like to pull out this quote:
"and while I am not an attorney and would not presume to offer legal advice (or even pretend to understand such weighty matters without benefit of counsel.)" I think that sums up a lot.
As far as the rest of the article, some of what is said there is a bit off. Read up any photography manual from the Associated Press or consult a studio photographer. At any rate, much of that is settled by contracts, beforehand.
As far as stealing the photos above by Cecelio, that's a civil tort. He'd have to sue the thief for anything to be done about it.I'm not online anymore. Ask BALDRICK, LORDSMURF or SATSTORM for help. PM's are ignored. -
If Cleio reads 50 guides then writes one of his own that is totally orginal, his guide belongs to him! ONLY if he directly quotes or otherwise uses content straight from someone elses work is he required to provide the source or credits! Course he should credit anyone that has provided help
in any way. Any guides he writes should be his own work, not just a rehash of someone elses!
For instance, I love Pizza and Lasaganayum yum
I can read 100 cook books looking for pizza and lasagna receipes. Using the various info for ingredents and quantities I can start experimenting with my new receipe.
Now here's a nice little fact, probably ALL 100 books will show tomato paste and garlic are used in those copyrighted receipes and I am using it too. Does that mean I am required to give credit to 100 authors for nothing? Common knowledge (if you eat pizza) and it's in every reciepe you ever read for a real pizza from scratch!
So NOW I have read 100 reciepes and experimented with over 200 test meals for the perfect combination of ingreadients. No-one else has ever written a lasagna pizza reciepe before, so this is totally mine! My choice of ingredients, amounts, baking temps, baking times, etc......
SO, what is now the legal questions answer? Do I have to give credit to 100 books for the line, "add garlic and stir"?? Or maybe "Spread mixture over crust evenly"?? Every reciepe is copyrighted and they all say that!
Bull!! You don't give credit for common facts. Now if you use the entire bread dough reciepe from one source for the crust, then yes credit that source! But even my crust is original!
And yes this is the same topic, I have created a near perfect lasagna/Pizza
after reading many "cooking guides" and much hands on testing to perfect the methods. Guides for anything else are the same also, inculding copying or capturing videos and DVDs.
The thing is to create your own work based on what you learned, not based directly on the source you learned from. -
I must reiterate: There is no reason to site your sources when you are teaching something. When you write a paper or create a literary work, it is required. If what you are teaching is accumulated knowledge, in your own words, you have no obligation to show your references, legally or morally. Since this is the case in nearly all schools, "society" has taught us that it is "morally" acceptable to leave them out.
Let me say it again: Learning from web sites is no different from learning from a library. In fact, the web is quickly becoming the new library. Further, posts on a message board are even harder to cite than "regular" literature. Am I to say, "I would like you to take my class, but before you do, go to https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=577967#577967. If that doesn't answer your questions, only then can I be justified in teaching you and taking your money.", just to make things "right"? Let's give the gatherer of information some credit. Sometimes people want a one-stop-shop and need there hand held by a live person, rather than searching through articles, guides and posts by themselves on the Internet. When you consider the classroom teaching method, you have to consider the whole package, especially the concepts of being taught vs. learning on your own. -
Originally Posted by tygrus2000I'm not online anymore. Ask BALDRICK, LORDSMURF or SATSTORM for help. PM's are ignored.
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Originally Posted by txpharoahAn all in one guide for DVD to CVD/SVCD/DVD by cecilio click here--> https://www.videohelp.com/forum/userguides/167502.php
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Originally Posted by Supreme2k
and yes, if he does write a "textbook," there will be need for sources and references....i dare you to go find one that has none and was created legally. yes, there could be some common sense info that Cecilio may not need to cite...however, most of the info is technical (similar to any of the scienes, in which all the textbooks have cited....even though they did not do a direct quote..but if they use the idea, results, conclusions, experimental procedures, etc....from any other source, (i.e. unless they just happened to figure out how much concentration of compound A to add to this medium to make certain cells grow better), they are required to cite it.
i've personally used some non-legal readers by professors who simply just photocopy figures and diagrams from textbooks...but those are illegal. no one was caught..no one was fined...so, just because i got away with it and my professors didn't need to cite or pay any royalty doesn't suggest that "even though colleges don't cite, so we don't have to." most of the time they do, but sometimes they illegally don't.
for example, a resonable thing Cecilio can do is to tell his students that tmpgenc is freely available for download at website X and Y. however, he can offer his own "tweaked" tmpgenc template for a price and try to convince his students that his template is better, easier to use, etc... than all the other freely available templates (i.e. the kvcd templates....i personally don't like them (if any of u were here back then and see the threads twice as long as this about those templates of his), but apparently kwad has spent alotta time working on it and didn't charge a thing for his templates)
in conclusion, i must reiterate that legality is thrown out the window because no one will take Cecilio to court or bother arresting him. he's a very small fish in the pond. there's gonna be no MPAA looking over his shoulder. he's basically free to do what he likes. however, it's how his actions will impact others..... who knows, his "idea" might catch on fire and soon we'll all have to pay for info. i'll rather keep it free for everyone to share and improve on.
the college analogy doesn't apply here because people work to get a DEGREE, which i don't think Cecilio can apply. it's also general knowledge that people can buy the textbooks themselves and study, but willingly prefer to pay money to study at college. however, most of Cecilio students won't know that. if his students were told that they could just go online, read some guides, and download some freeware, they might or might not do it...perhaps, they prefer live interaction, but that would be their choice...
i would hope Cecilio would emphasize aspects of his "service" that these websites and forums can't provide, rather than ripping off the info or freeware as his main selling point. i would not comment further if Cecilio does that. he could emphasize live tech support, live training, personal demo, and maybe even fix any freeware issues if they have incompatibility with the students' computers.....but if he just gives them a burned copy of the freeware and some copied guide...that's right...it's "original,"...then i would need to comment more on that..
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Originally Posted by poopyhead
it's also general knowledge that people can buy the textbooks themselves and study, but willingly prefer to pay money to study at college. however, most of Cecilio students won't know that.
if his students were told that they could just go online, read some guides, and download some freeware, they might or might not do it...perhaps, they prefer live interaction, but that would be their choice...The only reason that would even be brought up would be if one of his students/customers already knew of alternatives and wanted a reason why they should go with him.
I know it's not getting through, but one last example: A mechanic is not going to give you a list of stores, parts and cheap labor before he works on your car. He'll just give you his estimate, take it or leave it. That's how business works. That's (basically) capitalism, last I checked. -
Originally Posted by gmatov
but this is sort of like talking about all the way to hunt birds on some island you need to swim too and if it's legal to hunt there and what weps you can and can't use.. Oh wait, you can't swim!?!!?Soooooooooooooooo I suggest the first poster look into the where he can (or even if) gain access to and work backwards from there..
also no mater what program you pick to teach, you have to know it backwards and forwards..
I don't want to be negative at all or crush the idea of younger guy looking to make $$$.. good for him.. Still start at point one.. Can you even find a building anyone will let you use? Can you teach at night? (going to say no due to laws). Saturday? Ok I would guess.. etc...
I've been in groups doing planning before and before they have step 1-3 done they are already onto 4-22.. Waste of time and I just want to save him the steps.. -
Supreme2k,
Someone finally says it is OK. Why in the HELL are some pipple saying "that's a no-no, you learned all that here"?
Jeez, if no one could teach something they learned elsewhere, there would be no such THING as a TEACHER. "You paid US to teach YOU, but YOU may not go and teach others. We want them to pay us , also." It ain't the way it works. Cecilio may not have paid "us", in the coin of the realm, but he has contributed. He has learned, true, and, as any student would do, he is trying to capitolize on his education. Unlike some from my generation, who went to college to get out of the Draft, and took courses that were not even remotely connected with an occupation in the future.
Let the boy try his business out. If it flies, good for him
But, Why in the HELL do some of the posters seem to want him to fail so badly?
Jeez, what a bunch of sour grapes pipple!!! -
housepig, you are confusing "use of" with "distribution of" material.
And regarding copyright, you and Txpharoah are both right - technically, the second I create a work, it's mine, and it's copyrighted. However, if I get into a legal dispute with someone and I can't show that I've filed for an official copyright to protect my rights to the work, I will get laughed out of court.- housepig
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Housepig Records
out now:
Various Artists "Six Doors"
Unicorn "Playing With Light" -
Why the F**K would somebody pay the D**K who ever started this nonsense thread to learn how to back up DVD's when they can download the software from here and all the tutorials they need are here free of charge.
Why should this guy charge for issuing people with freeware and someone elses tutorials. How many back up packages are out there that just consist of freeware?? Look at VCDEasy, they started chargeing because of D**Ks like the above mentioned.
Totally disagree with whats he's doin. Would be a different matter if he'd written his own software & then teaching people how to use it.
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Why the F**K would somebody pay the D**K who ever started this nonsense thread to learn how to back up DVD's when they can download the software from here and all the tutorials they need are here free of charge.
Amazing! with one incisive post, you've cut through the Gordian Knot of tangled issues and contradictory opinion in this thread! I am in awe of your amazing skill.
Seriously, have you read the thread? Or did you read the first few posts and decide to cut to the end? Your point has been made, answered, debated, and picked apart.
To ask your question another way (and paraphrase Supreme2k's point) "Why the F**K would somebody pay the D**K who ever started this nonsense thread to learn how to build a deck, when you can go to the library and get a how-to book free of charge?".- housepig
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Housepig Records
out now:
Various Artists "Six Doors"
Unicorn "Playing With Light" -
Originally Posted by housepig
I thought libraries were a place where people went to download pornography free of charge. I had no idea they served any other purpose. Tell me more about these books. :P
(Disclaimer: The US Supreme Court recently ruled in US v. American Library Association Congress can require libraries receiving federal funding to place internet filtering software to block pornography. Even if it blocks legitimate material filters might confuse. Sure, like I trust the US Congress to know what is and isn't appropriate material.) -
They have books at libraries?
I thought libraries were a place where people went to download pornography free of charge.
I love you. Marry me.- housepig
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Housepig Records
out now:
Various Artists "Six Doors"
Unicorn "Playing With Light" -
Originally Posted by Supreme2k
this isn't someone who's taking some info to help some part of his business out...i.e. for video editing, etc... on the other hand, Cecilio is just going to rehash the info from here and make a profit....and worse, if he distributes any freeware with any implication that they came from him. as i stated previously, if you asked Cecilio if he has read any of the licenses on any of the software he's going to give his students, i bet he would say NO.
simply put, it may be perfectly legal...or even illegal, no one cares cuz Cecilio's not gonna get caught anywayz, but in the spirit of these websites and forums...the info should be shared for free...very disrepectful if he just uses these info and makes money. if it helps him with some video editing project..go nutz...but he's bascially just teaching the info..that's it....
as no one seems to point out in my last post, it would be great if Cecilio would tell his students about these forums, websites, and freeware upfront, BUT indicate what his personal contribution would be that these forums, websites, etc...can't provide the students..hence, the charges....if all he's going to do is to pass on the info and some freeware, then that's no good...he should earn his money by doing tech support for his students..live interaction, demonstrations, help, etc.... -
Bad seedWhat a hoot!!!!!!!!!!!
(;-{>Dd(;-{> Dd
Strength and Honor
www.dvd9to5.com
www.dvd9to5.com/forum/
"For every moment of truth there's confusion in life"
Black Sabbath/Ronnie James Dio -
Cecelio,
I hope you're not still serious about considering making dvd burning house calls as a way of making serious or even decent money.
Quit reading about these guys posting semi-credible-legal jargon about your upcoming dvd burning house call business. They are simply promoting a delusion that your current business plan is feasible.
Even if you hook up with the Video Professor and do a nationwide infomercial campaign, I doubt there would be enough clientelle who would purchase the tutorial, especially at $60. Not that many who own a dvd recorder need help or are willing to pay for help.
Let's look at the realities. The internet boom is over. No one is throwing money at everything technological anymore. The economic times are bad (job market is getting worse and worse), people are looking for necessities and cheap thrills, not extravagant luxuries. A fool and his money are getting more and more difficult to part.
I wasn't kidding when I recommended that you delve into the internet sex industry. That's one market that seems to always make money. Just come up with a slightly different type of perversion and live the life of a porn entrepeneur. -
ThoughtCopper,
I hate to disagree with you, but you are probably too young, and too computer literate to know what you are talking about.
If we should agree that older people who buy through Dell, or one of the biggies, they will usually buy the best they can afford, and, if my experience, with my co-workers, is any indicator, they will get a system with a DVD burner and have not the foggiest idea what to do with it.
These guys will say, " Aha, now I can make a copy of that (fill in the blank) DVD." They'll slip the DVD in the burner, open the Dell (whoever)disk, and find they can't copy protected works.
Now, it's an expensive piece of junk.
Hey, guess what, here comes a "little kid, just 15 years old" who says for a nominal sum ( Hey, 60 bucks IS a nominal sum for someone who has a 300 buck burner just sitting there ) and they'll line up around the block.
You have/have found the knowledge to do this. Some of the old farts (my peers, I'm one, also ) have paid a couple grand for their machines, even in this day and age where 800 to a thou will get you a damn good setup. They prefer to do this because they are well paid millhunks in their later years, with kids out of school, extra jingle in their pockets.
And, these guys are willing to take classes for things you would think are stupid. Lawnmower repair, Bonsai, Digital Photography, Combat Shooting, Golf, you name it, our continuing education program has it. This is on their own time, drive 40 miles home, come back after supper, take the class, go home, get up 6 AM and return to work.
There WILL be clients My only concern would be where can Cecilio do it? Will his parents allow him to bring 2 to 6 people to the Den or Gameroom, set up, and conduct a class?
One on one might be the way to go. That is, lacking a gathering place.
Spend half an hour DLing the necessary apps, half an hour setting up and getting the process going, let it run overnight, come back tomorrow for an hour to burn to CD-DVD. An hour a day per client, 4 clients, 4 hours, 4 satisfied consumers, with hands on, one on one instruction. E-mail for tech support, maybe 10, 15, 20 an hour if you have to do an on-site hand hold.
Money in the bank either way. Better! Both ways! And, the clients will NOT think they have been screwed.
First, they DL the necessary apps, hence, they learn that it is all out there, they simply didn't know where. Then, install, get configured. "Hey, thank you for helping me." Then, set up the DVD to rip. (Hey, that's cool!) Then, rip and convert. Shake the old fart's hands, congratulate him on catching on so quick, "I'll be back tomorrow at 5 to show you which files to keep, which to delete, and how to burn it to CD-DVD. Good-night, sir."
Now, how long did it take you to learn this on your own? How much time did you spend "lurking" before you felt confident enough to pose a help question? No one is born with this knowledge. We all have to learn it. Thank goodness there are people who are proud enough of their talent for it that they are willing to share it. I prefer to do it this way, my own self, but, I guarantee you, older people are not so proud as you young'uns.
You could say we're not too pig headed to accept, and, indeed, pay for help, with something we haven't the foggiest idea of which we are trying to learn. We kinda feel that technology is the realm of the young, and who better to ask than a young person?
It could also be that you are a 'tweener, too old for the tech stuff, too young to ask for help, or even know if you need it.
Regardless, I wish people would quit pickin' on the boy for showing some initiative. What the hell, he should go to McD's, same like younze did? -
Everyone complaining that "the information is free" seem to forget that he's providing a SERVICE. Much like a restaurant will charge more for food than the grocery store because you don't have to make it, Cecilio wants to privode the information pre-processed for those who don't have the time/inclination to learn themselves. Yes, he could be a scumbag about it and print out a webpage and say "good luck" and take their money. However, the teaching industry is certainly not an immoral one, so have a little respect for someone trying to spread knowledge where it may otherwise never penetrate!
I worked in tech support while in college, and 95% of the calls were for things that the user could have fixed themselves if they had either read the manual, tinkered around for a few minutes, or simply tried to think. Yet these people gladly paid for this service (well, no they usually whined that it should be free because they though it was my fault they were lazy or something).
@Cecilio - LOL - nice wardrobe snapshots -
Originally Posted by ThornAn all in one guide for DVD to CVD/SVCD/DVD by cecilio click here--> https://www.videohelp.com/forum/userguides/167502.php
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You guys are sick playing delusion inducing pranks on this kid. Tech support is one thing--techies work for a department specializing in fixing problems of particular hardware/software for a company (also troubleshooting procedures are written down in the tech support manual). The phone number/e-mail for tech support is printed on the manual. Moreover, people trust tech support personnel cause they are associated with a company.
So how the heck is this kid gonna attract clientelle away from the tech support people, especially since most tech support is free if the product is under warranty? If this kid places a newspaper ad, that costs $100s per month. Also, what's he gonna do to cover his travel expenses? Unless he works for a company, running his own multipurpose tech support specializing in dvd burning is basically financial suicide.
I mean if he wins some clients over from regular tech support, can he afford to deal with problems of difficult clients? Some clients will blame him for damage on their computer or lost data. He (his parents) will then get sued for these things. Besides, lawyers are always hungry. They will slap on DMCA violations for breaking CSS encryption (you should know this by now). Even if the lawyers have a weak case, the kid has to hire his own costly counsel. It's just not worth it when you subtract the costs from the benefits.
Still don't believe me on the lack of interest ... look on Ebay. Who buys those dvd burning tutorials/software? No one.
He might as well sell lemonade. It's summer for crying out loud. People get thirsty. Just hire a cheap but cute kid to man the lemonade stand to attract customers. -
You guys are sick playing delusion inducing pranks on this kid.He might as well sell lemonade. It's summer for crying out loud. People get thirsty. Just hire a cheap but cute kid to man the lemonade stand to attract customers
We're sick? You're the one trying to get him arrested.
http://www.naplesnews.com/03/06/naples/d945350a.htm- housepig
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Housepig Records
out now:
Various Artists "Six Doors"
Unicorn "Playing With Light" -
Housepig,
Touche.
I read that post the day it came on, and LMAO.
Cecilio, just ignore him. Go for the Gold. -
Originally Posted by housepig
But, the city quickly reconsidered since "No one goes around looking for lemonade stands to shut down" ... "The police officers were really embarrassed about it," and "One of them even bought some lemonade."
And most importantly: "city later offers free permit."
If you are telling Cecillio to operate his house call dvd copying/burning business, he will most likely also need a permit which may be rejected/heavily delayed due to the nature of his business (breaking CSS encryption on another person's commercial dvds which is technically a clear DMCA violation). And, he would not get the free sympathetic publicity as the lemonade stand nor the free permit.
Assuming You're Serious, lets weigh the cost and benefits of lemonade stand vs dvd burning tutorial:
DVD Copying/Burning:
Costs: Expensive Advertising Fees, Expensive Travel Fees (gas/plane tickets), Phone line, Constant Customer Calls, Time Consuming, Attracts MPAA lawyers due to potential CSS decryption violations, Significant risk for customer complaints, Few local clientelle, and threats of civil lawsuits from disgruntled, displeased clients, potential additional hardware purchase costs, and definite permit cost.
Pros: gmatov will root you on even though you are getting buried by bills and debts and lawsuits.
Lemonade Stand:
Costs: Hire a cute kid (or just use a relative i.e., kid sister).
Pros: No Costly Advertising (just a sign), No Travel Fees, No MPAA lawyers, No risk of refund requests, lots of local clientelle, potentially free sympathetic publicity from local newspaper, potentially free permit.
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