Is This Legal ???

[poopyhead]

@Supreme2k,

i think this is more of a backlash from all those "dvd2cd" programs offered online, whereby these scammers just bundle freeware along with some crappy guide and sold them for a premium. in some cases, they didn't even bother writing their own guides..they just ripped off of sefy's guides.

even now, lotta payware software are just ripped from freeware programs available...i.e. there's already a payware version of dvdshrink....exactly like dvdshrink..just w/ a slightly altered GUI

----

imagine where we would all be if everything was payware...even the info and the guides...this community was based on a free exchange of ideas...that's how it can grow

[txpharoah]

There is nothing wrong with teaching the courses or even providing discs of freeware as a bonus. You can sell shareware if you want. It's been done since the beginning of shareware and the beginning of freeware. The shareware craps out (only illegal to sell the full versions). The freeware is free. That's all there is to it.

There is a fine line between infringement and the reselling ideas being tossed around here, but Cecelio wouldn't be anywhere near that line, much less crossing it.

People can sell AOL discs. People can download freeware and resell it. You can even re-edit the freeware for re-sale. People can sell discs full of shareware (but NO alterations). There are no laws against this. It's seen as a service rather than a product. If these people are too lazy/unknowledgeable to acquire their own stuff, it can be provided for them - for a price.

The Luxury-thing (rebadged VirtualDub) would only be illegal if it were anything other that freeware. But it's free, so tough on the author. He gave it out for free. Why does he even care? But even then, there are ownership rights and other things to consider (and another page or three to explain it, so I won't). It' a whole hell of a lot more complex than some of you either think or are letting on in your posts.

Again, Cecelio, everything you have said is perfectly legit, and legal by the books.

I think the daddy that bought a DVD burner with his Dell would be the perfect student. He wants to learn, is probably a good target age, and has money to pay for it. If he forget what to do in 6 months, so what? That's not the teacher's problem. How many of you remember everything from school/college? I sure don't. In fact, I forgot lots of it on purpose (useless crap as far as I'm concerned).

And, NEVER NEVER NEVER give out your phone number or offer further support. You don't have a phone as far as these people are concerned. You're in high school, right? Your teacher ever give you his/her home number? I think not. When the class is over, if anything, give them a business card with your E-MAIL ADDRESS ONLY, a statement that simply states "telephone support not provided" and "only call to arrange an appointment" (or sign up for a class, depending on your method of teaching), and a link to www.DVDRHELP.com. If some dipstick calls expecting 24/7 support, don't feel bad about letting him go. If he gets pissed, so what? Don't let some chump walk all over you. You did your job already.

[vitualis]

I haven't read through the whole thread but it seems that this thread is getting a little hot-tempered. Keep it cool guys or I will lock it.

As to Cecelio's idea, it seems fine to me. You are allowed to make money on free software (as per GPL) by providing support, teaching, distributing, etc. As to freeware (i.e., uncharged by not "free" in the sense of GPL), it would depend on the individual license of the program.

You will simply have to abide by the license agreement of all the programs (i.e., you will have to make aware that any free programs you use are indeed free and if you charge for them then you must make them aware they can be acquired elsewhere without cost).

The only sticking point, however, is the use of some sort of DVD ripping program (i.e., a DeCSS program). This is absolutely necessary for backing up your own commercial discs and unless you are teaching people how to backup their HOME MADE discs (which seems pointless), you will have to talk about/use it. As for as I know, all DeCSS programs are probably illegal as per DMCA (and equivalent legislation around the world) but if you use it in the context of backing up your OWN discs for PRIVATE use, it is probably fine (i.e., no one will care). However, if you are using it for a commercial purpose (which I would say includes teaching people who to back up their own discs), I think you could be in trouble.

Regards.

[txpharoah]

The only sticking point, however, is the use of some sort of DVD ripping program (i.e., a DeCSS program). This is absolutely necessary for backing up your own commercial discs and unless you are teaching people how to backup their HOME MADE discs (which seems pointless), you will have to talk about/use it. As for as I know, all DeCSS programs are probably illegal as per DMCA (and equivalent legislation around the world) but if you use it in the context of backing up your OWN discs for PRIVATE use, it is probably fine (i.e., no one will care).

DMCA. Sigh. Yeah, that'll be a booger. But it's untested in courts as of this date. He should be fine. Plus he's a minor, if all else fails. So even if that 1 in a million thing happened, he'd get a slap on the wrists.

Yeah, pay attention to program licenses, I did forget that. I should be in bed. Forgetting simple things...

Hot tempered? I hope you don't mean me. I want this kid to succeed, given the hardships he faces with two hard subjects slammed together (computers and video). Heck, I'd like to see some pictures of those fancy new school threads he plans to buy with the money he hopes to make!

[gmatov]

I cannot BELIEVE the number of ignoramuses on this, and other sites, who will tick off a guy because he misspelled a word.
I read many, many, and, again, many posts, and no one seems to be concerned with spelling, grammar, etc., but, Cecillio wants to teach newbies how to make a VHS-VCD, or DVD copy, and the "brains" say, "Oh, you're such a iggoramus, you don't even got good diction, you gotta be able to spell good words, not like the rest of us, who are all in our 20's or 30's or 40's, or, in my case late 50's.
Lay off the kid!!!
What the hell. You'd rather he go sell crack, or something, because a bunch of know it alls say he should not do something?
Jeez, what a buncha f'in prima donnas.
Cecilio,
You should learn at least a little of the English language. You DO sound as though you haven't the slightest idea of what it is all about. If you should write in an English book manner, it would be more comprehensible.
At 15, do you even study English anymore, or do they figure you have already learned ghetto talk, so it would be a waste of time?
You should watch "Finding Forrestert". Would make you talk in complete, cogent, sentences, anyway

[mrbass]

You can charge $1,000 or more if people are willing to pay. It's whatever the market will bear. Don't deceive people as to what software is free, etc. Be honest about it and make an .avi or whatever and let them download it for $100 or whatever. Heck if 321Studios can sell stuff like they do for $99 then I'd say anyone can try selling whatever they want. I'd never do it myself cuz I feel like giving back. Where much is given, much is expected..blah blah blah.

I pay $30/month for my website. I've donated to dvd2svcd, imgtool, dvdtoolbox, dvddecrypter and a few others. If it wasn't for freeware we'd all be getting screwed. It keeps the commercial software within reasonable prices and gives them a reason to improve. For example Elby CloneDVD provides burning, etc.

[housepig]

@ Poopy & Derex888 -

you guys are still confused on free software. just because it is free does not mean there is a prohibition against selling it for pay. I can download Red Hat Linux for free from Red Hat, but if I buy it in a store I have to pay for it... it's not sitting out for free on the counter.

if there is a specific prohibition in the license for the software against selling it, then he's going to have problems. if there isn't, he can charge whatever he wants... and see if someone pays for it.

@ Txpharoah - you're quite right about Virtualdub - I think the reason he's bummed about Luxuriousity Video is a) the guy doing it is kinda scummy, and b) he ripped off graphics and screenshots from the Virtualdub site, to help sell it.

@ gmatov - aside from the fact that sloppy posting is a pet peeve of mine, Cecilio is setting himself up in a teaching role, so he elevates himself into a higher level of scrutiny. if he writes his class description like he writes his posts here, Cecilio is going to turn off potential customers. "But he'll clean it up for his class description!"... come on, does it take that much more effort to post legibly?

[Cecilio]

ok, this is for all of you people who keep on criticizing me, well just so you know i really am not a bad litterate. Yes i know i speak it bad here in the forums, but thats because i always try to answer someones question very fast, so which is why i too type pretty fast to bypass my thinking. so at first i think what im gonna type, and then my hands do the rest of the whole thing. which is why i get a lot of mistakes. But if your reffering to my bad english literature as {ghetto} well then thats different. well it depends who im talking too. if im talking to a good friend of mine, well i don't mind talking to him that way, cause thats the way he talks too. But when im talking a girl, well thats different. i try to make myself sound nice and well nice i guess so that she won't get a bad impression of me. and the same goes like when i talk to older people i know when to talk ghetto and when to talk normal. like for a class theres no way im talkin ghetto. oh and just so you all know i've taken alot of writting exams, and most of the times i score a 4 which is the highes in high school.

[gmatov]

Cecilio,
Slow down a little bit, and write more clearly.
Try writing something that is grammatically correct. Show that you can do it so the critics scoffing at the mere thought of the Guides you might print up for your students will say either, "See, I told you so!", or, "Well, we were wrong. He can write properly, when he wants/needs to."

Use paragraphs in your posts, and real sentences, not all run-on in one big glob.

I agree with Supreme2k. People seem to think they don't have to be rational in their writing, "You don't know me, why should I write cleanly?"

We have people from all over the world using English as a second language, who write more clearly, and correctly, than our "natives". And, for Pete's sake, they apologize for their "bad" English, which is usually better than the natives "good" English.

I "gotta" admit, this burns my ass something fierce.

Good luck with your project. Hope you make a ton of money with it.

Where I work, they offer classes on how to use the internet, how to use digital cameras, related, basic, subjects.

I'm sure there is a market for your idea with those of us who are older.
Older people are more apt to undergo training, than to try to figure it all out from scratch. If I hadn't found this site, I might have bought one of the packages I get spammed with a dozen times a day.

Why don't you write a guide and post it in the guides section, maybe ask for feedback, "Should I clean this up.....?" or something? Again, if it's good, it would silence a few critics. If not.....

[Raen]

@ Poopy & Derex888 -

you guys are still confused on free software. just because it is free does not mean there is a prohibition against selling it for pay. I can download Red Hat Linux for free from Red Hat, but if I buy it in a store I have to pay for it... it's not sitting out for free on the counter.

The reverse is also true. Just because it's freeware doesn't give you the right to free distribute it. I fac if you check out most freeware programs they are copyrighted and state 'not for resell' and have clauses on ho you can distribute it. Just because its feeware doesn' mean that the person tha created it doesnt still have rights over it. He may be violating copyright laws by selling it on CD, hell he might be violating copyrigt laws putting it on a cd and giving it out for free

[txpharoah]

The reverse is also true. Just because it's freeware doesn't give you the right to free distribute it. I fac if you check out most freeware programs they are copyrighted and state 'not for resell' and have clauses on ho you can distribute it. Just because its feeware doesn' mean that the person tha created it doesnt still have rights over it. He may be violating copyright laws by selling it on CD, hell he might be violating copyrigt laws putting it on a cd and giving it out for free

It's a case by case basis. And even then, it's not as clear-cut as many seem to think. There are many things to consider with either tort or criminal law.

In the case mentioned, VirtualDub, that author is out of luck. Too bad on him. Doesn't mean I like it either, but that's the way it is.

[Raen]

The reverse is also true. Just because it's freeware doesn't give you the right to free distribute it. I fac if you check out most freeware programs they are copyrighted and state 'not for resell' and have clauses on ho you can distribute it. Just because its feeware doesn' mean that the person tha created it doesnt still have rights over it. He may be violating copyright laws by selling it on CD, hell he might be violating copyrigt laws putting it on a cd and giving it out for free

It's a case by case basis. And even then, it's not as clear-cut as many seem to think. There are many things to consider with either tort or criminal law.

In the case mentioned, VirtualDub, that author is out of luck. Too bad on him. Doesn't mean I like it either, but that's the way it is.

It depends on how Vdub was distributed and if he bothered to copyright it. If he put so much as a 'not for resell' in the readme file that comes with Vdub then he can easily sue to stop this other guy from distributing it, he can even sue for monitery value. It doesnt matter if he gave it away for me.. it's HIS not the other guy. If the creator copyrighted it then anyone that wants to distribute it would have to have permission. Period. It really doesn't matter that's he's charging ZERO dollars for it, you can't repackage and sell it if it's copyrighted without permission. Its black letter law

[housepig]

Raen:

you must not have read the paragraph beneath the one you quoted:

if there is a specific prohibition in the license for the software against selling it, then he's going to have problems.

If the creator of DVD Shrink, for example, doesn't have a prohibition in his license against selling it for money, or distributing it for free on a compilation cd, then Cecilio would not be in the wrong for doing so.

Virtualdub was released under the GPL, the Gnu Public License. From what I understand (and I am not a GPL scholar by any means) I can make any changes I want to the source code, and distribute binaries based on those changes, as long as I freely distribute the source code along with the finished product.


I can rewrite the code so the splash screen says "HousePigDub" and change all the window titles, and even sell the final product for $100... but I have to make the source code freely available, or I am in violation of the GPL. And of course, if I make the source code freely available, Cecilio can get himself a copy of the source code and modify it to make "CecilioDub", etc. etc.... so since he can compile it from the source, there's not much of an incentive to pay some crazy price for it.

I think that was the other problem that Avery from VirtualDub had with LuxuriousityVideo - aside from the copyright infringment from stealing graphics from the Vdub site (which are not freely distributable), there is also a question of whether the source code was being made available in accordance with the GPL.

[orbital517]

To be honest......I don't think many older people who would be taking the class would want to be taught by a 15 year old. Many people don't think that a 15 year old is knowledgable enough to give a PAID class. And while you are giving this class, do you have enough computers to give them "hands on" training as you are teaching them? Or are you just going to give them some handouts? It's a lot more work than you might think. No one wants to pay $60+ dollars for just a couple of handouts.


It's a decent idea, but depending on your resources and how the people will accept learning and paying money to learn from a 15 year old is the question. Good luck.

[drewson99]

Cecilio,
Slow down a little bit, and write more clearly.
Try writing something that is grammatically correct.

I agree. You will never be taken seriously writing the way you do, especially if you want to make money off of people.

[poopyhead]

@housepig,

i'm still a little bit wary about your view of freeware. i don't completely disagree with you, as you pointed out the the linux redhat software. however, there are probably specifics that weren't mentioned.

1) freeware should be examined on a case-by-case basis, which means that Cecilio SHOULD get the freeware author's PERMISSION to distribute it..especially for profit. if Cecilio should distribute those freeware to his "students" with any implication that Cecilio is the author and/or only Cecilio can provide those programs, he will be at fault. he NEEDS to tell his students that the freeware is completely free, and that his students can freely download these freeware from online and not have to pay him anything.

2) Cecilio is essentially doing what the Redhat Linux ppl are doing on the shelves...by providing support. The reason it's not free is because it comes w/ manuals, support, and comes in a "nice little box." However, the program itself is absolutely free. Hence, Cecilio needs to tell his students that he's providing support on how to use the programs, but not the programs themselves.

So, if Cecilio meets these criteria, I objectively don't really have any problems with his idea...however, personally, i don't like idea that he's taking knowledge other people have provided him for free, which they could've easily charged him in the first place, and then making a profit on it. ----->BUT<------, if Cecilio tells his potential students about this website and others, i.e. doom9.org, and that they could get all the guides and help for free BEFORE HE CHARGES THEM, and they still want to pay Cecilio to teach, then i'm all for it.

[housepig]

Poopy -

I think the difference between our posts is that you're arguing from a moral perspective, and I'm arguing from legal one.

morally - yes, everything you say is true - he should tell people about this site, he should give credit where credit is due, he should not charge for freeware... all that is fine and dandy.

from a legal perspective, he doesn't have to do any of those things. he can claim he figured this stuff out all on his lonesome, he can charge people for freeware, and keep his students in the dark. there's no law that says he needs to be a stand-up guy and play nice.

as far as freeware licenses go - are you in the U.S. or the U.K.? as I understand it (although IANAL), one of the differences in the law is that in the U.S., if it's not explicitly prohibited, it's legal. In the U.K., if it's not explicitly legal, it's prohibited.

So if I release freeware and I don't explicitly say "you cannot sell this product" in the license, in the U.S. that would mean I can sell it, no problem. In the U.K., the absense of a specifically expressed right to sell it would prevent me from selling it.

I agree that not all freeware is released under the same license, and it should be examined closely... but if there's not a prohibition from selling it or distributing it in the license, Cecilio doesn't need to ask permission - it's already been tacitly granted.

[housepig]

Cecilio is essentially doing what the Redhat Linux ppl are doing on the shelves...by providing support. The reason it's not free is because it comes w/ manuals, support, and comes in a "nice little box." However, the program itself is absolutely free.

true, but the disc is not, and the effort of putting it on a disc, shipping it, etc is not.

Red Hat aside, I've seen linux distros that are nothing but a disc in a shrink-wrapped cd case... no box, no manual, no support, no nothin'. And they weren't free.

there's two concepts in the "free software" discussion - "free as in speech" and "free as in beer". "free as in speech" relates to the idea that the code is open and you are free to use and modify it as you see fit, with no restrictions on your use or modification. "free as in beer" means you don't have to pay for the software.

so Red Hat is free as in speech - you can modify it and tinker with the code all you like. And it's free as in beer - if you want to download it yourself. but there is no restriction saying that you can't sell it for money, or charge someone for a cd that you've put together.

[KetchSumAir]

@Cecilio

My $0.02. The DMCA, and the courts interpretation thereof, states that a company can not teach, distribute, or otherwise instuct people how to make backup copies of protected digital media. However, each individual can create his own program (or whatever) that will do this. But, once this is shared, this is violating DMCA.

Now, I don't like this ruling. But, the Judge (Kramer or Kumar I think??) said just as much. See for yourself in the legal archives at http://www.2600.com (lots of reading required).

It's going to take congress to ratify the law, or the Supreme Court the declare it un-constitutional before fair use rights are truly honored, and that will take awhile.

Now, having said that, you'd be a very small fish in the pool - not worth the DMCA's time. However, I doubt a college campus would invite you to teach there as many colleges have recieved threat letters from the DMCA.

I don't want to start a DMCA interpretation war here, as I am no lawyer. This is just my opinion.

[Supreme2k]

So, if Cecilio meets these criteria, I objectively don't really have any problems with his idea...however, personally, i don't like idea that he's taking knowledge other people have provided him for free, which they could've easily charged him in the first place, and then making a profit on it. ----->BUT<------, if Cecilio tells his potential students about this website and others, i.e. doom9.org, and that they could get all the guides and help for free BEFORE HE CHARGES THEM, and they still want to pay Cecilio to teach, then i'm all for it.

So, if I go to the library and read books and learn about building a deck, then charge people for a class that I am teaching about building a deck, I'm wrong?

I know it's a bit different, since you won't be giving the tools to your students, but the basic principle of "free information" is the same.

[txpharoah]

However, I doubt a college campus would invite you to teach there as many colleges

We could argue DMCA all day, but I wanted to pull out this one quote, as it'll dismiss your arguments in this case.

He's too young to teach at a college. Even for community programs at community college, you must have certifications, be a grad student, or have an outright degree and qualifications to teach. Ceceilio has none of that.

His best bet is a room in his high school, a local community center, in his home, or visiting homes to teach one-on-one.

I've seen cases 10x the size of this, and the FBI and MPAA don't care. They have bigger fish to fry. I've had FBI agents pointblank tell me "we don't care".

[Cecilio]

thanks for having my back there supreme2k

[poopyhead]

So, if I go to the library and read books and learn about building a deck, then charge people for a class that I am teaching about building a deck, I'm wrong?

I know it's a bit different, since you won't be giving the tools to your students, but the basic principle of "free information" is the same.

it's actually not the same....in your case, i would be fine if you told your students that they could goto the library and read the info for free w/o your help or any need to pay you. if after that, they still are willing to pay you to teach them to build a deck..then go nuts.

of course, in your case....the avg. non-deck building person would realize there's probably a how-to book at the library and would check it out. however, the avg. non-dvd ripper wouldn't know about these sites..and there certainly wouldn't be any freely available book at the library about this subject. of course, legally, Cecilio can lie through his teeth and claimed that he learned all the info himself...can apparently go as far as claiming he wrote those freeware...still dunno if that's true thou...but, just imagine if everyone did what Cecilio does and not give credit where credit is due...everyone would then be charging money for info and no info would be shared...

i.e. i'm still surprised the author of DVDshrink is still working so hard at it...since someone else apparently ripped off his program and is trying to make money off of it. so, DVDshrink's author is spending his time and hard work to make a free program, just so that another person ripped it off, claimed the program as his, and is trying to make money off of it....there prolly won't be too much more freeware after that...

[vitualis]

Look, it all comes down to the license agreements of the individual programs. If we are talking about free software -- we are implying that the program is under GPL (GNU Public License).

What Cecelio wants to do is perfectly within that license.

If we are talking about freeware (i.e., "free as in beer"), you will really have to check the individual licenses of each program. Some may prohibit you in making finanacial gain off the program without contacting the author (e.g., VCDEasy).

As for the DMCA, sorry, but I think what you do contravenes it. Is anyone going to care? Probably not but be careful...

Regards.

[overloaded_ide]

First, quite worring about this lisincing GPL freeware crap! READ THE AGREEMENT! Just becuase it is released as free does not mean it has to go by ANY TERMS at all! ANY AUTHOR has the right to set the conditions for how his COPYRIGHTED programs are alloughed to be copied and or distributed. That is what is meant by copyrights and owner

Not every free or so called freeware program is released under the same liscence (GPL) , just as payware and rippoff ware and M$ Doesn'tworkware99 all have whatever terms they want!

And gee, get off the kids back on the spellin, gramer, and such. We don't all have a perfect setup to work from! At My Mom's house now, 5 states from home. Dam, I can barely reach the mouse, keyboard is like a foot too low, and up so tight to a 17" monitor I can barely read what I typed!
Just sitting here at this desk pisses me off, setup so totally stupid, but at least I can use it and I don't say much because it ain't mine. But I think I know why she never does anythng but a couple e-mails now!
I don't do a whole lot better at home on the 5 I have there, but at home I am normally so tired I can't see the keyboard or screen, though all the setups are more better

Anyway, if he does it right he could do good. Yea, if your gonna use someone elses work, first you found it of value yourself so donate!!
Make sure it is free to hand out to your students if you plan to do so, and then make sure they know it is free and where it came from also!

ANyone can copy a dvd if they can make one from scratch! SO don't worrie so much about that, teach how to make them!

First capture ANY VHS TAPE! Show them how to do it with a home movie from a camcorder! So basic editing, cutting bad spots and dead scenes, adding a little music.

Author the DVD files. Make a few little chapter points and menus.
Burn the disk.

Now make a DVD to the hard drive that is about 6gigs, and teach how to shrink that to fit a 4.7gig disk
Who knows someday they may make a mistake and have files too large to fit on one disk, or maybe some odd reason need to put a DVD9 onto a DVD5

Remember, once you create a disk and contents from scratch you own the copyrights to that disk and contents! So YES you can legally show how to make as many disk copies as you want, even mass reproduce them if you want, as long as YOU are the copyright owner! SO make one for that purpose!


Also remember, it is how to use the tools and do the job they need to learn, not how borring it is sitting 2 hrs waiting for the computer to get done doing something! You can actually use 15-30 minute movies to capture, edite, and all that stuff so they learn the processes. You could already have a 6gig DVD on the hard drive to show them how to do a shrink.

As for networking a classroom for this. First that would be the best way, but you can simply install the required software on each system, then make a ghost image of that system with Nortons Ghost. Then after each class when you want to return the system back to a clean start just restore the ghost image! No worry about Virus or anything else that way.
If you try to let Students use their own systems and you have a class bigger than 3 your in for problems!!! At least one system won't run at least one program!

With computers so cheap, a great classroom system could be built for about $400 or less. You don't need the fastest and best, just good for the job! An AMD 1700xp, 40gig drive, 256mb ddr, ATI AIW capture card, 15"-17" monitor. Course a DVD burner too, Advantage of being networked is you could get by with less burners and some other stuff too.

Think about the systems hard here. If you did this right, you might get started fairly cheap and small, but expand quckly. You don't want to expand to more than about 10-20 per class anyway, so that's all you need for systems. AND you don't want to start with more than 5 in the first few classes either, keep it easy till you get the hang of the teacher bit!

You can always sell your systems latter if you give it up, so getting started and the first few classes are the hard parts.

Also maybe try to find something to go along with it.
Maybe do a few small classes anyway you can and still do a good job at it to get some money for startup expenses. Then find a decent but cheap store in a location people aren't afraid to go to or where you have to worry about robbies alot. $150-$200 a month plus electric? Yes, Those stores and Deals DO exist! I find em all over, so can anyone else! Not in the SLUMS, but not on fancy pants street either.

I'm thinking on doing about the same thing, but not dvd or video stuff. I feel there is far too much to learn that I myself have not mastered yet. At least for teaching it. However I have other ideas like for a gameing network like a permanant Lan party, net cafe (food, drinks, computers/net connections), sales and service too. My problem not a large market out in the woods and the kid don't want to move near a city or change schools. Though I would be changing states as well as cities if I move again. Just as much work to move 100 miles as it is 1,000 miles

[overloaded_ide]

Oh yea, if any-one is curious, No so far I have not made any donations yet either!

I have not gotten any results with any of those types programs I had tried that I could use for anything. I only tried a couple of the free prgrams and I do think it was my files and system, but still so far nothing.

I do plan do send in a donation for this site when I get back home in a few weeks.

[vitualis]

Wow, what a rant...

Most of your points have been covered. There is "free" software (as in under GPL) and then there is "freeware".

If it is under GPL, then don't worry. You can make money from providing support, education, etc., all you like. That's how RedHat makes money. Just make sure you fulfill the license agreements which have been discussed before.

If it is just freeware but NOT under the GPL, then you will have to go through the license itself. It may well not allow you to use it for financial gain. If unclear, you have an obligation to contact the author.

As for copying DVDs, the DMCA issue still exists. Obviously, what people want to know is how to copy/backup their commercial DVDs bought from a store -- not how to backup a DVD they made themselves (which is probably trivial you know how to make a DVD in the first place).

Regards.

[Supreme2k]

it's actually not the same....in your case, i would be fine if you told your students that they could goto the library and read the info for free w/o your help or any need to pay you. if after that, they still are willing to pay you to teach them to build a deck..then go nuts.

That's ludicrous! You're saying that every teacher should tell his students that the information is freely available outside the class (ie on the Internet)? I suppose that if you go to a restaurant, they should tell you up front that all of their recipes are freely available so you can decide if you want to pay to eat there?

...however, the avg. non-dvd ripper wouldn't know about these sites..and there certainly wouldn't be any freely available book at the library about this subject.

Which leads to...

of course, legally, Cecilio can lie through his teeth and claimed that he learned all the info himself

So that makes him beyond the "non-dvd ripper", which would be his expertise. Where do you draw the line on learning the info? Just like in the library example, I would be doing the research. Every teacher learns their subject from what others have written in the past, then teaches it as their own. I have yet to come across ANY professor/teacher/instructor who has even cited their credentials, much less their "reference materials."

but, just imagine if everyone did what Cecilio does and not give credit where credit is due...everyone would then be charging money for info and no info would be shared...

Ever heard of schools? Colleges?


It just seems absolutely ridiculous that someone should offer a free alternative to something for which they are charging. As long as he writes manuals in his own words and follows the rules of the freeware that he uses, everything should be fine.

I actually do teach classes on certain subjects (freelance), and I'll be damned if I'm going to explain to potential stuudents that they can learn for free on their own. Hell, isn't even just directing them to the sources worth something?

[dbaker6165]

Texas is ghetto? Never would have thought that... This is the state where many billionares come from... The state that always wanted to be its own country.... I'd think texas is a very rich state... Texas is the kinda of state that are quick to execute the poor convicts right.... Well at least you dont have to be burdened by sodomy laws anymore....

(im joking, ha ha) :P

[EndBoards]

Also, instead of a class, write a manual...

Somehow, I get the feeling that this isn't such a good idea for our young friend Cecilio...