Wasted endless hours encoding still get jumpy output

[rickers2k3]

Ive been trying for weeks now to convert from DivX to Mpeg2 in order to burn them to dvd and its driving me insane. The audio is in sync the picture quality is perfect but still when the camera pans the video is jumpy. I have followed all the tutorials i can find and been scouring these forums but still with no luck.

Tried different divx files incase it was the video and tried both pal and ntsc.

So far ive used virtual dub to extract the audio loaded the video file and the audio file in tmpegenc v2.513 plus. Chose ntsc or pal depending on the frame rate.

Left the aspect ratio set at vga 1:1. Left the bit rate on cbr. I've experimented with dc compressions of 8 through to 10. Tried both normal or hig quality for motion search precision. Used 720x480 for ntsc and 720x576 for pal

The percentage for the size of the output file normally set around 95%

The spec of the computer is 2.0Ghz celeron, 256Mb Ram, 150 GB Hdd

Any suggestions would be much appreciated

[Marco33]

Don't know much about Divx but, "field order" comes to mind.

[rickers2k3]

oh yeah forgot to mention i tried bottom first and top first

[bugster]

Field order should be irrelevant for divx as (AFAIK) it doesn't support interlacing.

One thing you don't say is wether this jumpiness is evident on the PC when you play the raw mpegs, wether it is present on your PC when you play the authored VOB files straight from you HD or if it is only evident on your DVD player and TV. This might help to track down the source of the problem.

[rickers2k3]

Good point. Sorry, this is evident on my pc when I playback the mpeg that tmpgenc creates. I havent bothered going any further because the jumping is so apparent.

[bugster]

OK, its looks bad on the PC.

Is the jumping/jerkyness pretty consistent or is it random.
Are the source divx files sensible framerates (i.e match the usual PAL/NTSC framerates)
Have you checked the source files for bad frames.

Just trying to narrow down the possible causes a bit here.

[Ejoc]

try to run it thru an avisynth script, with these lines:

Telecide()
Decimate(cycle=5)

[Sooner02]

try to run it thru an avisynth script, with these lines:

Telecide()
Decimate(cycle=5)

Run the avi or the mpeg?

[rickers2k3]

The jerkyness is consistent when the camera is panning, and is not existent or at least not apparent when the camera shot is steady.

As for the video files ive tried they are all correct frame rates and dont have any bad frames.

I really dont know what to think, Ive tried such a wide variety of files, so i don't think its the actual avi's. I have tried encoding on a different machine

(Spec 1.8Ghz AMD Athlon, 512Mb Ram, 100Gb HDD)

And when comparing the video files encoded on both machines the jumping occurs at pretty much exactly the same point. So im guessing it has to be something do with tmpgenc.

[Simms]

When you play your AVI file is the jerkiness present? You may have mentioned this earlier but just want to make sure.

[niteman]

I think your problem might be that you are trying to convert an NTSC movie to pal.
Your original is not at 25 fps i bet. Its probably 23.something.
Then you get an extra couple of frames where the image doesnt move but the audio is ok.
This will cause jerkiness.
I don't know of an easy cure. There are cures around but thay involve a lot of messing around so probably not worth it.

[bugster]

for divx source, make sur the Video source type setting in TmpGenc is set to non-interlaced (progressive)

[Sooner02]

I've been having this same problem too. There's always jerkiness when the camera is panning or in fast-action scenes. This seems to be when the original AVI is of higher quality. I noticed it after encoding the first time with tmpge while viewing the MPG, so I re-encoded with a higher bitrate, but the improvement was minor.

I know this is a problem during encoding since the AVI itself plays perfectly. After I burned to DVD, it played horribly (jerkiness all through) in my DVD-ROM, but much better in my standalone but still with the fast camera scene jerkiness.

[bobc292001]

The problem is most probably due to framerates as pointed out previously.

Try this -

1) Right click the AVI file and check the properties tab. Look for the framerate. It'll usually be 23.9fps, 25fps or 29fps.
2) You need to load the correct template into TMPGE to match the framerate.....If your source is 23.9fps then the best thing to do is use the NTSC DVD template with 3:2 pulldown enabled. This will output a file which your system will play at 29fps. If your source is 25fps just load the PAL template and if your source is already 29fps then go for the NTSC template without 3:2 pulldown.
3) Try encoding the first couple of minutes to check how the output looks to avoid waiting hours.
4) I find that most AVI use field order B.

Give us an update if this helps !

[rickers2k3]

im pretty sure i have been using non-interlace but ill try again as it could well be that.

I know ive been using the right setting regarding pal and ntsc as i check the frame rate of the avi in virtual dub.

regarding simms comment cant remember if i mentioned it before or not but, no the jerkyness is present in the original avi's only in the mpegs outputted by tmpgenc

[rickers2k3]

ok bob... ill give that a try while im at work tonight and post back here later

[bobc292001]

Can you post a detailed list of the AVI properties and the settings you are using in TMPGE?

[gf]

I posted this info before with no answer. I tried to convert a divx avi before and it was at 15 fps. On a divx player it looked good, but when I converted it to MPEG2 it had jerky movement then I found a program by Dynapel called "Motion Perfect" which works great. It also fills in dropped video frames in avi's. Give this a try!!

http://www.dynapel.com/com/private/mp_overview.htm

Steve

[RzSwede]

Hello!
I had the same problem before. Or in fact, two jerkiness problems in one. My first mistake was doing a NTSC 23.9 into PAL, so that was the simple fix. It was jerking during playback and panning but after setting the proper settings I got rid of that. I know you've already said you've checked this which brings me to my next problem. When I encoded using CBR in TMPGEnc the mp2 video itself played fine, but when authoring a DVD using the mp2 the output was jerky (using DVD Lab), the jumps were more eminent than the "wrong fps" jumps, and more like periodic freezes. When I used the TMPGEnc template for DVDs it uses Constant Quality instead (CQ) which I brought up to 100% quality (default is at 65) and the end result was a non-jumpy DVD.

I am not sure why this is the case because I was only using a bit rate of around 5000 with CBR, but nevertheless it was jumping on my DVD player as well as in PowerDVD. Still trying to find out more about this sort of stuff.

[bugster]

but when authoring a DVD using the mp2 the output was jerky (using DVD Lab), the jumps were more eminent than the "wrong fps" jumps, and more like periodic freezes.

There have been a lot of posts both here and on the DVD-lab forums about Jerky video such as you describe and I have seen it myself. The DVD-lab author says it is something to do with the multiplexor and I believe the latest version now has new options in this respect in an attempt to cure the problem. Havn't had chance to try it yet tho.

I don't think this is rickers2k3 problem as his jerky playback is evident in the mpg output by TmpGenc.

[Sooner02]

It's definitely a problem in TMPGE since the product mpeg itself was jumpy, at least with my situation. It's as if high-motion scenes do not encode very well, even though the jumpiness is slight, it's still noticeable.

[shin_zer]

Define Jerky (Jumpy frames. Frames change speed suddenly. Etc) or is it blocky?

[Sooner02]

Define Jerky (Jumpy frames. Frames change speed suddenly. Etc) or is it blocky?

Not blocky. The frames seem to almost slightly stick then quickly change. It's most apparent in horizontal camera motions that are quick moving. Or also in fast-paced action scenes.

[rickers2k3]

*.avi 23,976 fps and its 512 x 384 pixels - divx

Step by Step how i go about encoding.

Opened the *.avi in virtualdub

In virtual dub set audio to full processing mode, left compression set at none, and conversion no change 48000hz

Then open tmpgenc choose the ntsc template from the wizard and choose CBR MPEG-1 Layer 2 Audio

Selected *.avi as the video file and the newly created *.wav as the audio file

Video type non-interlaced, Aspect ratio 1:1 VGA, Content of video Film Movie

I set the start and the end frame in source range

Then in other settings left the rate control as CBR and bitrate set to 6000, encode mode 3:2 pulldown when playback
DC component compression at 10 and motion search precision at high quality (slow)

In advanced video source non-interlace (prgressive)
field order top first
source aspect 1:1 vga

and video arrange full screen (keep aspect ratio)

(Have also tried aspect ratio set to 4:3 525 lines)

and then hit encode.

Sounds like ive exact the same problem as sooner from his discription

[shin_zer]

Ussually the "Jerkyness" i get is a Framerate problem,mostly when using FILM movies.

I even saw it once on a Cable channel, stupid ones... it was the Terminator movie and it had that problem...

TSK TSK TSK

[bobc292001]

rickers2k3 .....
Change the field order to bottom first and try again.
I think this will sort it.

[bugster]

rickers2k3, you culd try this.
In TmpGenc, set encode mode to Interlace, encode Viddeo only, then use pulldown.exe on the resulting .m2v file and see if this helps.

Just an idea.

[rickers2k3]

Ok ill give that a try bugster, cheers. Already tried changing the field order bob but thanks anyway.

[nkuperw]

Have you tried changing the motion estimate from normal to high (it takes a butt load time longer to encode, but it might fix the jerkiness)

[tattytails]

*.avi 23,976 fps and its 512 x 384 pixels - divx ...

His settings tells us that the source AVI is progressive especially since he didn't mention the appearance of interlaced lines. So, there's no need to recommend encoding in interlace mode or changing field order.

You can try changing Motion Search settings to "high" but changing DC settings won't do much.

His encoding settings seem correct. But, he didn't mention his encoding framerate? Is he going from 23.976 fps to 23.976 fps (or to 29.97 by accident)? If he is encoding from 23.976 to 23.976, the MPEG file should play back at the same smoothness level as the original AVI file. Just make sure Tmpgenc's Inverse Telecine filter is not checked on this 23.976 AVI file.

Also, he should check his AVI again making sure that the panning scene is actually smooth in the AVI. Never hurts to double check.

If it is smooth in the AVI, then he could try opening the AVI in VirtualDub and frameserving it to Tmpgenc. Use Tmpgenc's Source filter to isolate the panning scene to make the encoding process quicker. Then encode the only the video stream (not audio) by choosing Stream type: System (Video Only). All his previous progressive settings should be used. When the MPEG of the panning scene is produced, he should recheck the fps (using MPEGProperties) to make sure that the MPEG and the AVI match. Then, examine the smoothness again. It should be the same.