why dvd+r(w) is superior to dvd-r(w)

[Philbiker]

What's effed up here is the poll and the article and the title have nothing to do with each other in the first post.

As for the article, it is to technical for me to care. Beta was technically superior to VHS also, but where did that get it?

That TWICE article is completeley skewed since it lumps dual +/- and + drives together and separates -R and -RAM as separate. So according to that article, dual drives don't count as -R drives, but they do count as + drives. Sure. (I love that emoticon)

The practical reality is that among the professional community DVD+R might as well not even exist. Also practical is that DVD+R is not quite as compatible with set-top boxes as -R, though both are very good in this regard.

But I love reading these format war posts, I find them very entertaining.

[PhilipL]

Hi Spath

Your second post in this forum and that’s to me as well, I am honoured

Blah, ever heard of paranoia ?

Paranoia I have heard off, but is “Blah” a technical term for something?

Again, read carefully. CAV is not discussed in the article, thus
"from the complete article Mt Rainier is the only feature not
currently in use" is correct.

I know it wasn’t discussed in the article, you added it later in a response to me. You pointed it out as another feature of +RW, and I merely pointed out it wasn’t on any shipping drive. Like I have said many times, people should stop talking about what it could have, and talk about what it does have. Talking about “could” or “optional” or “part of the spec” is vapourware and used by marketing.

Also I was able to read
them because my company bought them and signed the NDAs.

Oh I see, so even though your company signed a Non-Disclosure Agreement, you have broken that agreement by reading it and then publishing information based on those documents.

But on the other hand you claimed that there are some interesting
documents freely available on Philips' site. So this means that
you found these documents, right ? So why don't you simply post
a link, so that everybody can benefit from them ?

Yep found those documents and read them many months ago, why not do a search yourself as I did? I never saved the URLs or the downloaded PDFs and haven’t the inclination to trawl through the many results thrown back by their search engine to find them again. As you can imagine Philips has done a lot of research over the years.

It was introduced later on the market ?

Yes it was, after they ditched the original 3Gbyte disc they went back to the drawing board.

I gave techincal evidences for what
I claim, and I'm waiting for a refutation. You are welcome to post such
evidences of your own opinion.

By your own admission you are under NDA. How could I post ‘evidences’ without breaking NDAs on my part? Unlike you, any NDAs I have agreed to I keep.

Defective software/hardware does not mean that the format is bad.

We do not know if the software/hardware is to blame. You are making an assumption that hardware and software are to blame, exonerating the format? What we do know is that the Philips set-top recorders have a reputation for being unreliable, we also know that no other manufacturer has attempted to produce a set-top recorder with the same full feature set for recording to +RW.

Fragile ? How did you measure +RW fragility exactly ?

I measure it from the frustration of owners of Philips set-top recorders, both on-line, and from friends and family that have taken the plunge. It may not be a technical term that you can put a nice sine-wave against, but it reflects peoples experiences.

Be my guest, and please point me to the "obvious gotchas" of + format.

The obvious “gotchas” relate to the pros and cons of various tracking methods. These are discussed in the various R&D papers that you can find yourself by searching Philips own website. (15% higher jitter rate springs to mind from one such article but you never mention this.)

Spath, I would suggest if you have anything you want to add or argue do it to me in a PM on this forum. If need be we can summarise any conclusion or agreement we might ever come to at the end of this thread for all to see, but I doubt anyone is in the slightest bit interested and to be honest, I don’t blame them one little bit.

(Hi StudeBarc, you still trying to work out why your £35.00 of +VR enabled software has to buffer to the hard-drive first before writing?)

Regards

Philip

[vance43211]

Philbiker's quote

What's effed up here is the poll and the article and the title have nothing to do with each other in the first post.

As for the article, it is to technical for me to care. Beta was technically superior to VHS also, but where did that get it?

That TWICE article is completeley skewed since it lumps dual +/- and + drives together and separates -R and -RAM as separate. So according to that article, dual drives don't count as -R drives, but they do count as + drives. Sure. realmad.gif (I love that emoticon)

The practical reality is that among the professional community DVD+R might as well not even exist. Also practical is that DVD+R is not quite as compatible with set-top boxes as -R, though both are very good in this regard.

But I love reading these format war posts, I find them very entertaining.

u must have had a rip van wrinkle nap

or is just plain stupid

that was a problem last year

that is not a problem anymore as better software have come out

i bet when dvd-r was first released

they had the same problem, compatiability

eventually things have gotten better for -r

just as things have gotten better for +r

so u wannabee

do some research before u open your mouth

u probaly heard or seen the statement before from somebody else

and thought u would seem intelligent by bringing it up

[spath]

Philip,

You claim that there are free papers showing comparisons between +
and - tracking methods, yet you are unable to post links or even give
their title.

You claim that + format has "obvious gotchas" which (how convenient!)
are also described in some papers you cannot find back and whose you
forgot the title.

You now claim that + format gives 15% jitter more ? This figure is
just absurd, and it only shows that you have no clue about what you're
talking of.

Philip, the basic rule of contradictory discussions is to never
bluff, because if you get caught your credibility is lost. You got
caught three times, so as far as I'm concerned you're not a serious
contradictor to discuss with any more.

bye,
--spath.

[txpharoah]

that was a problem last year

And the year before that (2001).
As well as this year (2003).
And most likely next year (2004).

that is not a problem anymore as better software have come out

Compatibility is related to BOTH the burning method and the physical properties of the disc. Software has NOTHING to do with it (given that the proper options are available and function). Removing the improper burning methods, removing bad media, and left with just +R versus -R, their is a noticeable gap, and -R format is the most compatible.

i bet when dvd-r was first released
they had the same problem, compatiability

As somebody that's been here since the first drive was developed, let me tell you: NO. The only real problems are players that won't play burns of any kind, including CD-based copies.

eventually things have gotten better for -r
just as things have gotten better for +r

Sure. But the media and drives aren't much different from what they were on DAY 1. The same can't be said about DVD+R format. However, at this late date, these products are both stable. You merely buy and use what you were marketed to use, although the compatibility issues of DVD-Video is still an important consideration for many of us.

so u wannabee
do some research before u open your mouth

No comment. But you can probably see where I'm going with this.

Click here to read a paper from Verbatim comparing the formats, though it's a bit old. It covers the information that DVD+R is better for data, whereas DVD-R is better for video. And no, Verbatim is not baised. They sell media for both formats.

[vance43211]

txpharoah

Eat a Di*k (that's one thing u can probaly do good)

i dare u to find a dvd player

that won't play a movie i make

the only machines

that won't play dvds that i burn, with either instant copy (instant cd/ dvd in udf video dvd mode if it's an older player), gear pro 6, nero, cce and yes i even add this to the list, neodvd

won't play -r either as they were too old to recognize either format or they are just too old for anybody to give a damn about

though some would recognize them if u upgrade the filmware

now while i said i've only had 2 years experience on a computer

basically, almost all 2 years have been burning dvds

back when they took 55 years to burn one dvd

u , you probaly showed up 6 months ago on the dvd burning scene

when u and all these so called genuises showed up as ic7, dvd2one and the new quick and easy dvd burning programs came out and made dvd burning a simple process

hence, came all the know it alls, those who are stating their format is better than the other

i forgot more dvd burning sh*t than u will ever know

but stand by what i say

i know enough about computers

i know for a fact any new computer products just introduce to the market

has problems

or it wouldn't be a computer part

also i remember reading some where about early dvd-r problems

i just don't remember or care

i don't have nothing against dvd-r people

shoot i taught a couple of dvd -r people (friends) on how to burn dvds

i do have problems with idiots like u



p.s. with the dvd video (udf 1.05) coming out in full swing (soon all dvd players will be of this format)

compatiblity will soon be a non issue

vance43211 wrote:

so u wannabee
do some research before u open your mouth


No comment. But you can probably see where I'm going with this.

now you can probably see where I'm going with this

[txpharoah]

now you can probably see where I'm going with this

No, not really.

[vance43211]

idiot's quote

Click here to read a paper from Verbatim comparing the formats, though it's a bit old. It covers the information that DVD+R is better for data, whereas DVD-R is better for video. And no, Verbatim is not baised. They sell media for both formats.

i don't need to read anything

as them are people opinions and it is as u say a bit old

(old things don't apply as technology progresses)

opinions

everybody got one

even an a**hole like u

[vance43211]

sh*t i can even use musicmatch jukebox plus 7.5 to burn a dvd movie

and i know u can't do that

[adam]

I am STRONGLY considering breaking in the new warning/ban system on some of the posters in this thread. Everyone calm down and keep your posts civil, or you will recieve a strike.

[jeex]

yeah, everyone needs to simmer down.

if you wanna get in to heated debates that mean something, then talk about affirmative action. you want equality?! then stop using your race as a handicap & wanting special treatment. if you're too stupid or not good enough to do something, then we shouldnt let you do it just because you're a "minority".

[vance43211]

now i apologize

but this seems to happen everytime this stupid debate is brought up

i shouldn't have overreacted to this posts

that being said


get the idiot redneck jeex

who just made a statemate above off this forum

before he really get something started that is way

worse than anything you all have seen before

You are in breach of the forum rules and are being issued with a formal warning.
/ Moderator vitualis

[jeex]

now i apologize

but this seems to happen everytime this stupid debate is brought up

i shouldn't have overreacted to this posts

that being said


get the idiot redneck jeex

who just made a statemate above off this forum

before he really get something started that is way

worse than anything you all have seen before

translation = change subject from me being an ass to talking shit about jeex.

[Faustus]

There is no winner, there will not be for some time. Both formats burn movies that play on most DVD players. And this thread is out of control. I highly suggest it be allowed to die. Failing that would one of the other mods consider locking it? (I can not in this group)

[Craig Tucker]

My pleasure