why dvd+r(w) is superior to dvd-r(w)

[tompika]

Y`all know what we want?

WATCHING A GOOD MOVIE AND A COLD BEER

And we don`t give a $hit if its PLUS or MINUS
Just want it cheap and playable.

You WANNABE EXPERTS WE NEED USEFUL ADVICE NOT WAR


ps And my babe has bigger boobs than yours do

[lagerlout]

Is this war ever gonna see a ceasefire? Who the hell cares? Obviously everyones happy with what they have (no-one said otherwise when I asked a few weeks back) so everyones happy. We're having a war cos people are happy FFS, just be happy that you chose the right format for you, whichever it was!

[Heavensent]

i think i will let you all fight each other to death.

im still waiting for the formats war to end.

untill then - its xcvd for me

[Trenton_Net]

Txpharoah is right. DVD+R's only viable market is towards consumers in the USA. In almost any other part of the world DVD-Rs are by far the most popular.

In my opinion DVD+Rs are like the XVCDs of the DVD world. DVD+Rs need to brake standards to get them to work. In fact drives need to be hacked/tricked into thinking DVD+Rs are dual layered disks so that the laser can focus on it (even though its a single layer media). I have never heard of any shoddy format which requires stuff like a "Compatability bit". What kind of homemade standard is this?

As far as I can tell (from the title), this topic was made by some DVD+R owner who's angry for purchasing a "market share" loosing device when dual format drives or quality DVD-R Drives already exist. And judging from the pole, I doubt he'l find anyone rallying with to try and boost each other confidence on such a "Good" purchase.

[coyote]

I use both standards because both are in widespread use.....yes only a third of the people on this forum have plus r......but thats still a lot of people.

From what I have read on here, most people are stating that the +R will die because the -r is in widespread use. First of all, that is because it came out first, not because it is better or worse.

And if you want to talk about widespread use issues, video, graphic, and music editing mac is still the industry choice (look at any production house, advertising company, etc.) yet they according to the latest polls only have a 2% market share as of last quarter. Yet they are the better machines.

To state that because the masses are using something it is the better format is simply wrong.

Basically, you are counting on the people who voted for the elvis stamp.

Basically, BOTH standards work, and yes +R has some technological advantage, and -r has market share advantage.

As long as the one you are using works for you....who the hell cares.

[LanEvo7]

Who gives a $hit. When they are successfully burned most standalones, dvd-roms, and dvd burners can read them regardless if its + or -

[coyote]

Thank you Lanevo......sentiment is truly agreed on....

I'm tired of every discussion thread leading to this.

If it works for you...use it...and don't worry......

Most of us are talking about devices in our computers...which we all replace items every couple of years anyway....

So don't worry about it.....if the format you are using dies out.....chances are you would have a different burner by then anyway

[tompika]

You just cant stop this $HITSTORM can you

In my opinion DVD+Rs are like the XVCDs of the DVD world. DVD+Rs need to brake standards to get them to work. In fact drives need to be hacked/tricked into thinking DVD+Rs are dual layered disks so that the laser can focus on it (even though its a single layer media). I have never heard of any shoddy format which requires stuff like a "Compatability bit". What kind of homemade standard is this?

Changing the booktype is like a firmware update. You need to do it ONCE only and the burner keeps the settings. Or just set it back anytime you want.
Flexibility, even after burning +RWs it can be done in 3 seconds.

And that`s what you are jealous of, as a DVD-ROM means 100% compatibility.

I have tried at least 15 different brand of standalone players and all of them played DVD+R (as a DVD+R not as a DVD-ROM) without a hitch.

ps And my babe has bigger boobs than yours do

[sparker]

HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! when you quote someone else in your post USE THEIR NAME WITH THE QUOTE, IT HELPS TRUST ME, DAH!!!!!!!!!!

(;-{> Dd

Like this?

[Gil T Pleasure]

As far as I can tell (from the title), this topic was made by some DVD+R owner who's angry for purchasing a "market share" loosing device when dual format drives or quality DVD-R Drives already exist.

Let's see, by your definition, a market share loosing devide is one that has a 56.4% of the market share. :P

[txpharoah]

ps And my babe has bigger boobs than yours do

Pictures speak a thousand words.
So how about PM'ng me 1,000 words, if ya'know what I mean?
And I caught your "ya'll". They're Texas-corn-fed aren't they? :P

[Gazorgan]

I said it before and I'll say it again:

DVD-R == VHS

DVD+R == Betamax

Betamax was superior, but VHS 'won'.

It's not about the quality of the product.......it's about mass-marketing!!! And of course $$$ :P

[Kennyshin]

If +RW is so brilliant why the costly delays in bringing it to
the market?

It was introduced later on the market ?

I dislike all underhanded marketing methods, don’t you?

Sure, and both sides have used some ugly marketing lies to sell their
drives.

This speaks volumes to me....

Spath! You're new to this aren't you? Back in 2001, DVD+R was still vaporware in development stages, and +RW was still working the bugs out. The Pioneer Authoring drives and A03 drives were selling out.

And the same can be said about DVD-RAM being before -R formats. That's why -RAM continues to be a choice data backups application at many government facilities, businesses, and universities. It was first, and proved itself reliable. It also didn't need any negative marketing.

Marketing-wise, the DVD-R companies say very little. They are operated by the DVD Forum, owners of the DVD logo and the privileges of its use. For them, that was enough. They are the official format, and that's that.

...

I know he is not.

Pioneer looked uglier than Philips and Ricoh.

[vance43211]

we don't care what u say


they are both winning

beta didn't win

anybody that think their format is better than the other

is an a idiot

because they both work

i like to apoligize for a smart comment i made about bob w " i buy dvd-r because the media is cheaper even though i have a dual format drive"

at least he has a legitmate reason

i think i will leave this post alone

because u obviously can't change an idiot's mind

and when this thread dies, somebody else is going to start a new one

and all the idiots are going to come back out

[Cornucopia]

Don't you guys read these threads?

Gil T Pleasure: Your quoting the same link/story that was done a week or so ago. It was shown to be done by a group that specializes only in US only, Consumer Retail Point-of-Sale, New sales. This doesn't include the world markets, doesn't include bulk/wholesale and/or internet sales, and doesn't include aggregate sales histories. That's just a little too lame to base an arguement on.

Same thing with the "news article" link from CDfreaks. Sure, it's very likely the guy doing the report has enough engineering knowledge to make A/B comparisons from a theoretical standpoint. But judgement of the outcomes will be based on what is expected to be done with the formats.

It's been said over
and over
and over
and over again...

If you want to use your DVD recorder in a consumer fashion (i.e. no editing via computer, multiple episodes in different sessions, Broadcast/Sat capture), then +RW (and probably RAM, too) has a number of "benefits" over -RW. Why? Because that's what it was made for.

If you author discs once each in a computer DVD burner (either original stuff or backups), you DON'T EVER USE features such as lossless linking, multi-session. Why? Because just like with CD's, your doing a simple single Disc-At-Once disc image burn. That's like saying "Wow, with my new HP CD+R burner, I can burn multi-session audio cds!" Since Red Book Audio is single session, it wouldn't play in >90% of the players out there (computer CD-ROMs excepted), and most people can just as easily do a TAO or DAO burn the usual way and make it so much more compatible and reliable.

So, if you author discs (either pro or hobby), there are NO benefits of +R over -R, except possibly burn speed which will very much depend on which models and vintages you're comparing, and media cost (which, as we have seen many times on this forum, varies greatly by outlet style and region). There are also other benefits to -R over +R (such as mastering acceptance and installed-user base and some compatibility), although these are lessening.

You know, this stuff has been discussed SO MANY times. It always seems to start the same way: "DVD+ blah blah blah Better than Loser DVD-". It always seems to be written by a newbie +R/W fan. It always goes on way too long. Even though there are some intelligent comparative points made along the way (often by the -R camp) it always degenerates into the muck of abuse. Then it always seems to end or peter out as a veritable stalemate.

I personally hope that these types of threads won't be allowed anymore unless all parties involved have "done their homework" and examined all the links and docs from both camps, plowed through ALL the past threads roughly pertaining to the subject, and limit their comments only to 1st-hand actual physical experience and unbiased and thoughtful, clinical-type experiment. That would stop just about everybody (myself included).


SERENITY NOW!

Scott

[Kennyshin]

because u obviously can't change an idiot's mind

and when this thread dies, somebody else is going to start a new one

and all the idiots are going to come back out

There have been thousands of threads like this for the last two years. Since there are two competing major DVD Recordable format standards, it is rather meaningless not to compare them from various perspectives.

The quality of a mind will decide who is an idiot or not.

I prefer DVD+RW to DVD-RW. I have not yet bought a drive that can write to DVD-RAM. I have Toshiba SD-R5002 and Pioneer DVR-A05. I also used Sony DRU-500A for a time. The two largest electronics companies in my country, South Korea, support DVD-RAM and DVD-RW more than DVD+RW.

So I bought DVD-RW drives because they work and there are cheaper DVD-R media made by Princo, Ritek, Gigastorage, BeAll, Infodisc, Nanya, SKC, etc. in South Korea. But I still believe DVD+RW is better than DVD-RW.

And things will continue to change.

[Kennyshin]

It always seems to start the same way: "DVD+ blah blah blah Better than Loser DVD-". It always seems to be written by a newbie +R/W fan. It always goes on way too long. Even though there are some intelligent comparative points made along the way (often by the -R camp) it always degenerates into the muck of abuse.

That would stop just about everybody (myself included).

Scott

It often started by those loyal to DVD-R/-RW/-RAM. For some mysterious and obvious reasons, they usually react too strongly to newer and better standards. Human. It has been roughly the same with USB 2.0, Serial ATA, PS/2, LCD-based monitors, CD-R, HDTV and most other important PC-related technology standards.

Intelligent comparative points made often by the -R camp, can you link to?

Stop yourself please if you really think discussing in this fashion is wrong.

Why is it that nobody is even trying to discuss the original article itself?

[lagerlout]

Let's see, by your definition, a market share loosing devide is one that has a 56.4% of the market share. :P

Hmmmm......

According to NPD data for April, +R/RW drives controlled 56.4 percent of the market and dual drives 38.5 percent. In comparison -R/RW drives had 3.8 percent with RAM at less than 1 percent for that month.

For one month eh? One month = market share? Who chose the month? And where did they collect their data? Retail outlets perhaps? All this data is flawed, as is any other market penetration data anyone has yet posted.

Different markets have different technology preferences. Round here its the -, in the states its the +. We eat chips, they eat freedom fries. Who the hell cares, they do the same job. I'm really beginning to feel a large wave of social innadequacy from this forum, everyone must have the better format cos they brought it, and they couldn't be wrong could they? Surely if the other format is better, then they chose wrong and are muppets?


Why don't we have a PAL/NTSC argument eh? At least the differences are noticable there!

[Kennyshin]

I said it before and I'll say it again:

DVD-R == VHS

DVD+R == Betamax

Betamax was superior, but VHS 'won'.

It's not about the quality of the product.......it's about mass-marketing!!! And of course $$$ :P

It is true that mass-marketing is important in success of a major PC standard such as USB and DVD+RW. That is why Pioneer, LG, Samsung, Sony, NEC, Sanyo, Lite-On IT, BenQ, BTC, MSI, Hitachi, Mitsubishi, Taiyo Yuden, BeAll, SKC, Ritek, and many other companies have responded to the demand from Hewlett Packard, Ricoh, Dell, and the general consumers around the world. They have all decided to produce and sell DVD+RW products.

[Kennyshin]

For one month eh? One month = market share? Who chose the month? And where did they collect their data? Retail outlets perhaps? All this data is flawed, as is any other market penetration data anyone has yet posted.

As far as market share data is concerned, it is useful to check the latest information coming from the most important market. The United States is world's largest market for DVD recordable and rewritable drives and media which is why Ritek, the world's No. 1 media company, Taiwan, and NEC, the world's No. 1 (DVD recordable) drive component company, Japan, respect the market so much. The largest (CD/DVD) drive manufacturers are in South Korea. They also know DVD+RW is the way to go. The world's No. 3, No. 4, and No. 5 drive manufacturers have all the same idea.

Why don't we have a PAL/NTSC argument eh? At least the differences are noticable there!

Which reminds me, I have just bought my first HDTV PCI card for US$100. Now I want AOD drives to backup the HDTV-recorded video files.

[lagerlout]

It often started by those loyal to DVD-R/-RW/-RAM. For some mysterious and obvious reasons, they usually react too strongly to newer and better standards. Human. It has been roughly the same with USB 2.0, Serial ATA, PS/2, LCD-based monitors, CD-R, HDTV and most other important PC-related technology standards.

Eh? Reacting too strongly to new standards? USB2, giving us firewire speeds but backwards compatible to USB? We didn't want this you say? SATA? CD-R FFS? What the hell are you on mate? We've embraced these technologies with open arms, who hasn't? Every PC I build I put firewire, USB2 and a CDRW into. EVERY PC. And I have a DVD-R. Not quite sure what your getting at here, that the - brigade are technophobes? Wild generalisations do nothing to help your points, just make you look like a numpty.

Anything that has a discernable advantage over its predecessor is fine by me. Why wouldn't it be, only a moron would think progress is a bad thing. When it came to buying a DVD burner I did my research, looked into what I'd use it for, and realised there wasn't a blind bit of difference between the 2 for what I required. I went for - solely on the media costs, because in the UK the - blanks are less than half the cost of + blanks (at 4x). I've had it a month, and saved over £100. To me thats a success. If the + format had been cheaper, thats what I would have bought without a doubt. Different markets will prefer different products, its that simple. Anyone feeling they have to prove themselves on a level playing field really ought to get a life. Maybe the monitor radiation is getting to you all?

[lagerlout]

As far as market share data is concerned, it is useful to check the latest information coming from the most important market. The United States is world's largest market for DVD recordable and rewritable drives and media which is why.........

Thats just it though mate, the US is not the only market. It may be all thats relevant to you, but not to all. As I said I couldn't give a damn who wins this format war, my next burner will be dual regardless just to be sure I get the cheapest media, but to consider the US market the only one worth watching? What sells in the US does not necesarily sell elsewhere. Sorry to bring up such a stupid point again, but what other country eats freedom fries?

Different countries = different people = different markets. I could spout sales mumbo jumbo at you too about how - is the prevalent format, well it is here. I could quote figures proving that - has approx a 82% market share, from my mates shop anyway. Does it all matter? No, not really. Funny, I can't be arsed to defend the format I have but still feel compelled to slap down those who do. Really must stop, some people may need this to feel good about themselves.......

[Kennyshin]

As far as market share data is concerned, it is useful to check the latest information coming from the most important market. The United States is world's largest market for DVD recordable and rewritable drives and media which is why.........

Thats just it though mate, the US is not the only market. It may be all thats relevant to you, but not to all. As I said I couldn't give a damn who wins this format war, my next burner will be dual regardless just to be sure I get the cheapest media, but to consider the US market the only one worth watching? What sells in the US does not necesarily sell elsewhere. Sorry to bring up such a stupid point again, but what other country eats freedom fries?

Different countries = different people = different markets. I could spout sales mumbo jumbo at you too about how - is the prevalent format, well it is here. I could quote figures proving that - has approx a 82% market share, from my mates shop anyway. Does it all matter? No, not really. Funny, I can't be arsed to defend the format I have but still feel compelled to slap down those who do. Really must stop, some people may need this to feel good about themselves.......

I didn't mention only the United States. Instead, I ignored Europe for obvious reasons.

[Kennyshin]

It often started by those loyal to DVD-R/-RW/-RAM. For some mysterious and obvious reasons, they usually react too strongly to newer and better standards. Human. It has been roughly the same with USB 2.0, Serial ATA, PS/2, LCD-based monitors, CD-R, HDTV and most other important PC-related technology standards.

Eh? Reacting too strongly to new standards? USB2, giving us firewire speeds but backwards compatible to USB? We didn't want this you say? SATA? CD-R FFS? What the hell are you on mate? We've embraced these technologies with open arms, who hasn't? Every PC I build I put firewire, USB2 and a CDRW into. EVERY PC. And I have a DVD-R. Not quite sure what your getting at here, that the - brigade are technophobes? Wild generalisations do nothing to help your points, just make you look like a numpty.

Anything that has a discernable advantage over its predecessor is fine by me. Why wouldn't it be, only a moron would think progress is a bad thing. When it came to buying a DVD burner I did my research, looked into what I'd use it for, and realised there wasn't a blind bit of difference between the 2 for what I required. I went for - solely on the media costs, because in the UK the - blanks are less than half the cost of + blanks (at 4x). I've had it a month, and saved over £100. To me thats a success. If the + format had been cheaper, thats what I would have bought without a doubt. Different markets will prefer different products, its that simple. Anyone feeling they have to prove themselves on a level playing field really ought to get a life. Maybe the monitor radiation is getting to you all?

Read it again.

It often started by those loyal to DVD-R/-RW/-RAM. For some mysterious and obvious reasons, they usually react too strongly to newer and better standards. Human. It has been roughly the same with USB 2.0, Serial ATA, PS/2, LCD-based monitors, CD-R, HDTV and most other important PC-related technology standards.

So you are saying you are one of those loyal to DVD-R/-RW/-RAM?

Maybe the monitor radiation is getting to you all?

That is less human.

[lagerlout]

I didn't mention only the United States. Instead, I ignored Europe for obvious reasons.

Yes you did! You specifically said the US is the most important market. You then went on to say that certain manufacturers from the far east also thought this was the best market. Am I missing something here? And what are the obvious reasons for ignoring Europe exactly? Don't fit in with your figures perhaps? I aint after a flame war here mate, but am really curious. So what gives, why is only one market important?

Read it again.

It often started by those loyal to DVD-R/-RW/-RAM. For some mysterious and obvious reasons, they usually react too strongly to newer and better standards. Human. It has been roughly the same with USB 2.0, Serial ATA, PS/2, LCD-based monitors, CD-R, HDTV and most other important PC-related technology standards.

So you are saying you are one of those loyal to DVD-R/-RW/-RAM?

Well I happily chose - for my stated reasons, and only have a - drive so obviously I'm sticking to that format! So your saying that those loyal to the - platform are technophobes yes? So therefore anyone who bought a - only drive is a technophobe? Thats certainly how it looks, again am I missing something? You are without doubt trying to say that the - brigade fear change, aren't you? Why exactly? What are the obvious reasons? Again your not making yourself clear, just mouthing off obtuse comments in the hope people will just believe you. State these obvious reasons that everyone apart from me must know please. Please tell us all why the European market is irrelevant and all - users are backwards hillbillies with no concept of progress.

[Kennyshin]

I didn't mention only the United States. Instead, I ignored Europe for obvious reasons.

Yes you did! You specifically said the US is the most important market. You then went on to say that certain manufacturers from the far east also thought this was the best market. Am I missing something here? And what are the obvious reasons for ignoring Europe exactly? Don't fit in with your figures perhaps? I aint after a flame war here mate, but am really curious. So what gives, why is only one market important?

Read it again.

It often started by those loyal to DVD-R/-RW/-RAM. For some mysterious and obvious reasons, they usually react too strongly to newer and better standards. Human. It has been roughly the same with USB 2.0, Serial ATA, PS/2, LCD-based monitors, CD-R, HDTV and most other important PC-related technology standards.

So you are saying you are one of those loyal to DVD-R/-RW/-RAM?

Well I happily chose - for my stated reasons, and only have a - drive so obviously I'm sticking to that format! So your saying that those loyal to the - platform are technophobes yes? So therefore anyone who bought a - only drive is a technophobe? Thats certainly how it looks, again am I missing something? You are without doubt trying to say that the - brigade fear change, aren't you? Why exactly? What are the obvious reasons? Again your not making yourself clear, just mouthing off obtuse comments in the hope people will just believe you. State these obvious reasons that everyone apart from me must know please. Please tell us all why the European market is irrelevant and all - users are backwards hillbillies with no concept of progress.

You call the world's most populated region which supplies practically 100% of world's optical storage media and drives just "far east" and you are asking why Europe was ignored in one of my previous post.

Technophobes do not need to bash newer and better technological standards. They usually reject all things and ideas that look technological.

The few companies I regard important enough in this field are Philips, Thomson, and Siemens. Though even they cannot survive without making alliance with the companies in South Korea, Taiwan, China, and Japan that they were once or twice trying to colonize, the three largest European manufacturers support DVD+RW.

1. South Korea produces half of the world's PC optical storage hardware products. The largest buyers are HP, Dell, IBM, and so on.

2. Japan still nearly monopolizes all new important technologies and product markets. Some Japanese manufacturers such as Hitachi, Mitsubishi, Sanyo, NEC, Sony, Pioneer, Ricoh, Matsushita, Toshiba, and so on develop and produce the key components for DVD recordable drives. South Korea, Taiwan, and China have replaced the other markets largely.

3. Taiwan produces more than two thirds of the world's PC optical storage media products. Most CD-R, CD-RW, DVD-R, DVD-RW, DVD+R, and DVD+RW media are produced by Ritek, Prodisc, and CMC Magnetics, all headquartered in Taiwan.

4. China of course is the world's largest IT manufacturing base and the greatest potential for the fastest growth for the next 50 years and more.

5. The United States is (yet) the world's largest market. It still has more computers than any other country. People in the US tend to consume more disc-based hardware media for recording PC and CE video data. HDTV and FTTH are also attracting more and more early adopters in the US like East Asia and unlike Europe.

There are other East Asian countries such as Thailand, Malaysia, and Singapore. NEC ND-1100A drives are made in Malaysia.

So now it is your turn to tell me if there is anything important in Europe regarding DVD writers, except the fact that the people there are speaking loudest on web forum boards like this.

[i_am_dave]

I own a +R/+RW drive, although at current count 59% of this forum uses -R/-RW, I'm happy with +R.

TGPO owns a Mac, although I support Windows, he's happy with Windows.

Different strokes folks!!

Look how long the Mac/Windows debate has been going on.
I just bought 10 +RWs from Office Max for $30.
Even price is not going to be an issue much longer!

[lagerlout]

Yes, I call them the far east. I also call the US america, as it is. Sorry, you wanted me to name the countries? Why? You stated America as the most important market and backed it up by saying a number of countries also think so. The US is home to the richest populace in the world, of course they own more PCs. Of course a lot of recorders are sold there, but they are not the be all and end all of the world despite what current foreign policy reflects. You cannot say a product is the winner because americans buy them, unless you mean the winner in the US. I thought this internet doohickey was a global thing, not localised? If you read any of my posts you will see that I often say that - is more prevalent in Europe and + in the US. I have never considered Europe to be the world, I know there are places beyond its borders.

Your first point merely said that the bigger US companies buy more storage products. Your second point just tells me who manufactures parts. In fact, all your points merely tell me that the US is a technology abundant country that relies on other countries for innovation. You even tell me how great these other countries are at doing it. The only thing I said about Europe was to question why we as a market were dismissed? You however failed to answer that, just told me how the US is the biggest consumer of foreign goods on the planet. You have not addressed a single point I made, merely jumped on any sentence you could and tried to make an argument out of it.

Even in the localised figures quoted earlier the - media sells 40%. Thats bloody impressive for a product with a 3.8% market share. That speaks volumes, your average + user doesn't actually use it! They have it because thats what they're given, they don't choose it. People who write DVD's a lot seem to be buying -, the facts are there.

I say again I really do not care about this format war, just about people who always think they are right. The US likes +, Europe likes -. Understand? None is a winner, none! Unlike Highlander there will not be only one, they will co-exist until the next innovation wipes them out. Can you honestly not see that?

Now tell me again why Europe should be ignored for obvious reasons?

[Kennyshin]

Yes, I call them the far east. I also call the US america, as it is. Sorry, you wanted me to name the countries? Why? You stated America as the most important market and backed it up by saying a number of countries also think so. The US is home to the richest populace in the world, of course they own more PCs. Of course a lot of recorders are sold there, but they are not the be all and end all of the world despite what current foreign policy reflects. You cannot say a product is the winner because americans buy them, unless you mean the winner in the US. I thought this internet doohickey was a global thing, not localised? If you read any of my posts you will see that I often say that - is more prevalent in Europe and + in the US. I have never considered Europe to be the world, I know there are places beyond its borders.

Your first point merely said that the bigger US companies buy more storage products. Your second point just tells me who manufactures parts. In fact, all your points merely tell me that the US is a technology abundant country that relies on other countries for innovation. You even tell me how great these other countries are at doing it. The only thing I said about Europe was to question why we as a market were dismissed? You however failed to answer that, just told me how the US is the biggest consumer of foreign goods on the planet. You have not addressed a single point I made, merely jumped on any sentence you could and tried to make an argument out of it.

Even in the localised figures quoted earlier the - media sells 40%. Thats bloody impressive for a product with a 3.8% market share. That speaks volumes, your average + user doesn't actually use it! They have it because thats what they're given, they don't choose it. People who write DVD's a lot seem to be buying -, the facts are there.

I say again I really do not care about this format war, just about people who always think they are right. The US likes +, Europe likes -. Understand? None is a winner, none! Unlike Highlander there will not be only one, they will co-exist until the next innovation wipes them out. Can you honestly not see that?

Now tell me again why Europe should be ignored for obvious reasons?

South Korea produces many times more CD/DVD drives than entire Europe but while I respect Europe very much hardly any European here seems to pay attention to any East Asian country. Though I said I ignored Europe in one of my posts, I am hundreds of times more active in European forums than Chinese and Japanese forums. I read British and German sites.

I ignored Europe because it is backward, small, and closed. But a more important reason is that some Europeans here are too near-sighted over technolocal issues.

To you, it seems as if Europe accounts for half of the world, and the other half is the United States. To me, Europe is, to roughly say, just 10% in population, 20% in industrial production, 0% in CD/DVD writer production, 0% in CD/DVD media production, with growth rates smaller than some other parts of the world.

As far as when I try to read where the market is going, I look at the US, Japan, China, Taiwan, and South Korea.

Europe as a whole is a big market for DVD recordable drive and media manufacturing companies in Japan, China, South Korea, and Taiwan. However, no country or organization (including EU) in Europe is powerful enough to decide the general market trend.

So tell me what you, if you are in Europe, can do to change some things. Even Philips gave up its own PC storage division inside Europe and moved it to Taiwan since Taiwan looked to them as the right place to do it. Most new CD and DVD writers are first introduced in Japan, and then neighboring countries, and then North America. That means those markets decide what type of drives and media the manufacturing companies are going to develop and produce.

[vance43211]

i_am_dave Quote

I own a +R/+RW drive, although at current count 59% of this forum uses -R/-RW, I'm happy with +R.

TGPO owns a Mac, although I support Windows, he's happy with Windows.

Different strokes folks!!

Look how long the Mac/Windows debate has been going on.
I just bought 10 +RWs from Office Max for $30.
Even price is not going to be an issue much longer!

i have been buying them at (Fujifilm dvd+r discs) 10 disc for 14.92 at microcenter for the last couple of months

i just didn't post that here because i would be feeding into that same bullsh*t that most of these defensive people are feeding into

this stupid debate will never end

FELLAS GUESS WHAT

THIS IS A STUPID DEBATE!