VHS quality is = to VCD/SVCD?

[SatStorm]

About resolutions, I had once write an article: "Simply Faq for Video Resolutions". I explain easy some stuff there...

DVB known Resolutions: 352 X 288, 352, 480, 528, 544, 640, 704, 720 X 576 PAL / 480 NTSC

Laser Disc resolution: 528 X 576/480 officially, 544 X 480 unofficially.

VHS: 352 X 288/240. VHS output 2 interlace CIF frames, in an offset position between them. On TV this look like a "blured" ITU-R 1/1 D1. You can't emulate this while capturing, so you capture @ 352 X 576/480 and then you decide recontruct the original framesize (difficult) or filter and encode as 352 X 576
SVHS: 352 X 576/480. SVHS output full CCIR frames. You capture at 352 x 576 and you encode @ the same framesize.
A CVD from a VHS source, gonna always look blured compared a CVD from a SVHS source.

About CVD / 1/2 D1: It is the same framesize of 352 X 576/480. People tend to name it CVD (or xCVD) when they burn files of this framesize on CD-Rs and keep the bitrate bellow 2520kb/s for video. People burning this framesize to DVD-Rs or CDs using higher bitrates (like 2600 average but 4000 maximum) tend to call it 1/2 D1.

@indolikaa: You didn't get a simply word of what I said...

And another example for what I'm talking about: This photo of yours, under your name. What is it? A joke? A political statement? What?
You can't even realise that you are offensive to the people which was against this war, don't you?
Better focus on our hobby and stop this here.

I'm sorry for this off topic post.

Just to clearify: I don't have something against americans. I have relatives in US, even few job offers. Overall, US citizens are really good people. They are just too local and they don't care for more than that. In todays world, this is a minus...

[indolikaa]

SatStorm, your knowledge of this hobby is most impressive, and you have demonstrated to me that any posting with your name attached is a must for newbies. I'm not going to deny you that, you've earned it. And I will continue to follow your postings because they are informative.

All I asked in my posting was that we focus on the hobby and not engage in personal attacks and/or judgements. I do understand your frustration regarding your English skills, but I think you're English is just fine. If you don't make sense, I'll just ask for clarification. No harm, no foul.

Now, for the jocularities.

This photo of yours, under your name. What is it? A joke? A political statement? What?

It's a paradox. You stated that Americans suffer from being 'led around by the nose' by the media. What about all those Arabs who believed Al-Jazeera right up to the very last second? Who's leading who by the nose, I wonder?

You can't even realise that you are offensive to the people which was against this war, don't you?

I could care less about the feelings of the anti-war population. Just as the anti-war crowd offends me with their rhetoric, I have the right to offend them by supporting this war. The Constitution works both ways.

By the way: an anti-war position never brought down a genocidal sociopath. It didn't work for Adolf Hitler, it didn't work for Idi Amin Dada, it didn't work for Jean Bedel Bokassa, and it didn't work for Slobodan Milosevic. What makes anybody think it would have worked for Saddam? It was OK to 'contain' him, as the French suggested, and let him go about his merciless slaughter of innocent Kurds and Sunnis?

Better focus on our hobby and stop this here.

Fine. You took your two potshots and I responded. It stops here. Anything more, fire away with a PM! 8)

[indolikaa]

Unfortunately, I am not sure what kind of processing the Dazzle does when it captures at CVD. And yes, pictures are sharper when they are from SVHS source rather than VHS source.

Still, the VHS-CVD transfers are much sharper than I would have thought. Using the same source material, I did a VHS-CVD and VHS-SVCD test, both being recorded at 2520/256. The VHS in question was an SP recording of the 2000 Summer Olympics opening ceremonies.

The playback was done on a Sony Wega XBR, switching between two Apex -1100 units. The SVCD was slightly sharper, but it pixelated more. The minor difference in sharpness could be tuned out on the CVD disc by using the Sony's internal controls, but the CVD pixelation was insignificant.

CVD is the way to go, no question in my mind.

[energy80s]

Standard VHS has a resolution of 270 lines.
Betamax has (had) a resolution of 280 lines.
SVHS has a resolution of 410 lines.
DV Video has a resolution of 500 lines (LaserDisc was about the same).

This is not the same as digital picture resolution.

[txpharoah]

SatStorm, your knowledge of this hobby is most impressive, . I do understand your frustration regarding your English skills, but I think you're English is just fine. If you don't make sense, I'll just ask for clarification.

Since we're all into kissing butt right now...

As amusing as it is to me, SatStorm, you actually write better English than some native-born Americans I know! You have excellent control over your words, and don't let anybody tell you differently.

And I would concur. Your information and knowledge is quite impressive, and I have learned some tidbits myself from your posts, so it is definitely not something only for the newbies.

As far a Half-D1 DVD (352x480), 4000k is the "max" but you can freely bloat it to the full 10.08 if you so desire. Pointless, but available.

Standard VHS has a resolution of 270 lines.
Betamax has (had) a resolution of 280 lines.
SVHS has a resolution of 410 lines.
DV Video has a resolution of 500 lines (LaserDisc was about the same).
This is not the same as digital picture resolution.

These are approximate numbers too, not exacts, though I believe these are for PAL formats, rather than the NTSC I'm used to working with. NTSC numbers may be a bit lower, especially the VHS one.

[energy80s]

CVD is an SVCD variant at 352x576 with a variable bitrate up to 2496kbps MPEG2 and audio at 224kbps 44.1kHz stereo.

1/2 D1 extends the bitrates up to 9.8mbps (although with the lower resolution this only needs to be up to 5mbps) and audio sampled at 48kHz as this is designed to be played from a DVDR disc.

[energy80s]

These are approximate numbers too, not exacts, though I believe these are for PAL formats, rather than the NTSC I'm used to working with. NTSC numbers may be a bit lower, especially the VHS one.

No these are actual test results over the years. You set up a broadcast camera pointing at a calibration chart and record the output onto your test machine. Then you play this back and note the point where the resolution dies and the black and white lines merge into a grey mass. I agree that NTSC will be the poorer performer, due to both the lower picture resolution and the poor colour response of the format.

[txpharoah]

No these are actual test results over the years.

Every place I've worked, as well as every company I've bought from, each has their own "perfect spec" and the way analog works is within a range. I only wish it was as finite and perfect as digital, but it's just not.

I'm not arguing your tests, those are perfectly fine numbers, just that each test can come to a different conclusion, and because of how analog works, that's an accepted science.

My tests shows VHS at 240 and S-VHS at 415, but it's argued with a plethora of numbers, from within that 220-240 and 400-420 range I gave out. Again, I'm NTSC.

If there really is a perfect number, nobody seems to know it. Or it died with the inventors of the technology.

And I wouldn't call NTSC poorer, just different.

[energy80s]

And I wouldn't call NTSC poorer, just different.

Oh come on, we all know that NTSC really stands for Never The Same Colour!

Having seen stuff shot on a 525 line Betacam after 11-9-01 from New York and comparing it with a PAL 625 line Betacam tape of the same scene, there is a dramatic difference in picture quality. I can understand why the US governemt decided to go High Defination as NTSC has the most to gain from the format.

[indolikaa]

Kissing butt?! You need to point that sign at yourself, partner. :P

I wasn't kissing butt. I was trying to, in a polite way, let him know that his English is fine, his video know-how is good, but we obviously disagree on many other subjects.

Besides, sein englisch vermutlich ist eine hölle von viel besserem als mein Deutscher... ou Français.

[SatStorm]

Well thanks for your good words.

By the way, almost 2 years ago, I use to have this picture under my name
If indolikaa you think that your picture is funny, then for the rest of us, the non americans, this picture is much more funny!


SatStorm reporting for Al Jazeera and love it!

[indolikaa]

That is just plain BAD!

I gotta ask, SatStorm. What country in Southeast Europe?

[SatStorm]

Hellas (Greece).
It is a small NATO, E.U. and U.N country, just 800 kilometers away from beautiful Uranium bombs, made in US, expected to end their radioenergy life in only 90.000 years.

By the way, Fox News looks better on you!

[indolikaa]

Greece? The cradle of modern mankind? Site of the 2004 Olympic Games? Location for Yanni's Live at the Acropolis?

Never heard of Greece.

[Cecilio]

one way to get an excellent VHS rip to vcd is not to make it vcd. just make it XVCD with CQ of 2500 max and 0 minimum. and set it to 100. this will get you ******* great results and it wont use the 2500 kbs it will automatically use 1884 as the maximum bitrate, plus you get better quality using CQ. i just encoded a Sex and The City episode in XVCD and the final size for 26 minutes was only 341 MB. so this way you get excellent picture quality and you can still put alot of video on a DVD-R/+r. i also tried making a CVD with a bitrate of about 2000 and audio 128 and the results were crappy on my Computer screen, so i burned both of them and tested them an still the xvcd was better, and i mean way better. till yesterday i started making Xvcd cause i really dont like the low reselution of 352*240, but if it looks good with sufficient bitrate than more power to it.

[txpharoah]

one way to get an excellent VHS rip to vcd is not to make it vcd. just make it XVCD with CQ of 2500 max and 0 minimum. and set it to 100.

If 2500 won't work, try the DVD spec 1856 instead. For some players, that may be a bit high. And also usae CBR, some players won't like a VBR/CQ MPEG1 file.

[Cecilio]

one way to get an excellent VHS rip to vcd is not to make it vcd. just make it XVCD with CQ of 2500 max and 0 minimum. and set it to 100.

If 2500 won't work, try the DVD spec 1856 instead. For some players, that may be a bit high. And also usae CBR, some players won't like a VBR/CQ MPEG1 file.

no it doesnt use 2500 kbs it uses 1884 max but well in some parts of the video it uses higher and some lower so when its done it uses a video thats just there i guess if im not confused, plus i have an APEX so i really dont care.

[indolikaa]

Never transferred anything to XVCD before. XVCD onto DVD R/W? How comptabile is that likely to be with most machines?

[mikesbytes]

I don't think that the resoluiton of VHS is really that applicable. What is relevant is the quality of the signal. Lower quality recordings then to look softer and higher quality recordings look sharper. Have a look at the quality of the source. If it is sharp, then use a higher quality solution, if it is softer, then a lower quality solution will work. If there is a lot of motion, then a higher bit rate may be required. It all boils down to different horses for different courses.

[txpharoah]

Never transferred anything to XVCD before. XVCD onto DVD R/W? How comptabile is that likely to be with most machines?

It won't work.
Only CBR 1150-1856k MPEG1 is supported in the DVD spec.

[indolikaa]

Yeah, that would be my bad, txpharoah. I get the big DUH for that post!

Please point your sign up again.

[Cecilio]

Never transferred anything to XVCD before. XVCD onto DVD R/W? How comptabile is that likely to be with most machines?

It won't work.
Only CBR 1150-1856k MPEG1 is supported in the DVD spec.

shit so your telling me that if i use MPEG 1 CQ it wont work on a dvd-r/+r. man that sucks.

[indolikaa]

Yeah, he's right. I went back and read the DVD primer.