DVD Shrink 2.3...still can't get it to do long DVDs! Why??

[oldfart13]

Everyone keeps praising this software and it does a good job on some discs but if the DVD is long, it's poor. I did 3 disks in the past 2 days. The first required no compression after I stripped out the movie only. The second required a compression of 15% and looked fine even on my 27" TV. The 3rd is the hard one. The main movie file is under 6 Gig and the 2 channel audio is 352 Meg. So, about 6.2 Gig total, without extras. I tried to reauthor the disc as movie only but the resultant file at 4.4 Gig is too horrible to watch, with macroblocks and mosquito noise on all moving scenes. The compression had to be set to level 6, 35%. There is no choice, if I want to fit it to one disc. Has anyone else had these problems with long discs?? I'm thinking now, I'll have to use DVD Toolbox to split it to 2 DVDs and leave it at that...

[NYPlayer]

I have to agree with you. I did some lomg movies and the Video sucked. That convinced me to use Instantcopy for all my movies. It might take longer but at least I know I will always get a watchable movie.

[poopyhead]

really?

i'm using dvd shrink 2.3 right now and it's working great. on certain scenes, i can see minor blockage, but that's at LEVEL 10. i'm referring to die another day, in which i'm keeping everything intact... actually, not everything, because even level 10 for both the main movie and extras is still too big to fit on one dvd-r, so i had to remove some audio, but that was it. the quality is great on my 32" and even on my PC up close.

keep in mind even 50% compression is still really good quality.

based on some calculations i did, the SVCDs i do at 2520 bitrate (which, i believe, is the max bitrate allowed for standard SVCD and some complained that there were too many CDs cuz of the high bitrate) is around 60-70% compression, and most ppl can't tell the difference between the 2520 bitrate SVCDs and the actual DVD. so, the highest compression rate (50% w/o going into still pictures) is still better than the highest quality SVCD.

[JHMac]

oldfart13
Give DVDFab a try if you decide to split the movie to 2 disk, it also keeps the menus something DVDToolbox does not. Give it a try it is awesome software.

[oldfart13]

I guess we have a difference of opinion on what is an acceptable level. No macroblocks and no mosquito noise is acceptable. Is Die Another Day movie only over 6 Gig? If not, then the comparison is not the same. Nor is SVCD. I would guess that acceptability for me would mean that I don't go over about 20% or 25% compression in the transcode, otherwise I'll have to reencode with IC7 or some other encoder. I'm always amazed by what a lot of people will put up with when watching TV. It's been about 10 years since I started to watch satellite TV on a regular basis, as well as being an early adopter of things DVD. That makes me very picky. Long ago, I was the guy recording in VHS SP cause I couldn't stand LP or EP recordings (in the days when tape was $30+ each). Before that, it was Beta I speed. If I would have had the money, it would have been U-Matic or 16mm film (which I have way too many of today). Picky, picky, picky...

[chembro84]

I guess if you were super picky you could just buy the DVD

[Triple_Helix]

I'm sure he does. Why do you assume he doesn't?

LTA

[mkelley]

I guess we have a difference of opinion on what is an acceptable level..

That's for sure -- for me, you aren't *nearly* picky enough.

I refuse to see *any* DVD compressed -- it's like backing up 95% of the words in your Word documents. That's why I only use DVDShrink on episodic disks (where I use no compression on half the episodes and turn the rest into still images, and then vice versa). For all the rest I use DVDXCopy (although I do want to try out DVDFab -- perhaps this weekend).

To each his own... (from one old fart to another :>)

[mrbass]

level 6 at 35%...actually level 6 is 30%. So did you do level 7 at 35%?

I wouldn't go above 30% only for TV episodes and not that great of movies. And if your extremely picky...don't go above 20% level 4. I always chop credits off and do main movie only to get it to the lowest level possible.

[Imaginary Voyager]

For people that want to backup even 3+ hours DVDs to a single 4.7 DVD, there is NO other way than DVD2DVD-R (with Cinema Craft or MainConcept). The quality is perfect.

Costas

I guess we have a difference of opinion on what is an acceptable level..

That's for sure -- for me, you aren't *nearly* picky enough.

I refuse to see *any* DVD compressed -- it's like backing up %95 of the words in your Word documents. That's why I only use DVDShrink on episodic disks (where I use no compression on half the episodes and turn the rest into still images, and then vice versa). For all the rest I use DVDXCopy (although I do want to try out DVDFab -- perhaps this weekend).

To each his own... (from one old fart to another :>)

[xistan]

I refuse to see *any* DVD compressed -- it's like backing up 95% of the words in your Word documents.

Well I would like to say that using this logic, you are probably already on normal DVD level backing up about 10% of your Word document. Using a reasonable amount of compression you will need very good equipment and vision to see any difference. If we are talking about fitting 9 GB of movie data into 4.7 GB, almost 50% compression of already heavily compressed material, of course there will be artifacts, and of course the quality will be worse than watching the original DVD or the original movie in theatre.

For people that want to backup even 3+ hours DVDs to a single 4.7 DVD, there is NO other way than DVD2DVD-R (with Cinema Craft or MainConcept). The quality is perfect.

I guess I've commented on this above. No! The quality isn't perfect. Backing up a 3+ hour movie to one DVD, at least with CCE, I have noticed severe blocking artifacts. The sharpness and color representation, OK they are extremely good compared to DVDShrink, DVD2One or even IC7, but at least DVDShrink and IC7 is not far behind CCE when it comes to overall quality.

At times like this I wish I had a server or something to visually present the data upon which I base my opinions, unfortunately, the best I can do is talk about it.

/C

[mkelley]

I refuse to see *any* DVD compressed -- it's like backing up 95% of the words in your Word documents.

Well I would like to say that using this logic, you are probably already on normal DVD level backing up about 10% of your Word document. Using a reasonable amount of compression you will need very good equipment and vision to see any difference.
/C

I suspect what you're trying to communicate is that a DVD is already containing very little information compared to the film it comes from -- if that's what you meant to say that's a straw man. I have no ability to own the original films or even see them anymore: all I have are the commercial DVDs made from them. To further denigrade them in any manner is unacceptable to me.

Even a reasonable amount of compression (say, less than 20%) is very noticiable to me on my monitors, let alone our large screen. Not all the time, not everywhere, but in enough scenes to matter to me. I know -- I've been in the video business for over 20 years and my eyes are still (but fading :>) pretty good when it comes to A/B roll comparisons.

Everyone has a different level of what they will accept, and that's all I was trying to point out to the other old fart -- the nice thing is with all these tools you can choose what suits you.

[diablos_blade]

You have kind of answered your own question... If you want all the extras you will have to use something like Instant Copy or DVDXCopy, you will always have to lose some quality if you try to squeeze 7gb + into 4.3gb. I have used DVDShrink on Gladiator (movie only)which is nearly or just over 7gb (can't remember exact) and the quality was great - i think once ... one seen had very slight blockage but on a 32" wide it's difficult to tell if i was just to close to the tv! I have to say and agree with chembro84 though. It does sound like a lot of work over a film you should already own. Question though.... did you compress the menu's as well. I was suprised at just how much space some of today's menus take up!!

[shelter]

really?
i'm using dvd shrink 2.3 right now and it's working great. on certain scenes, i can see minor blockage, but that's at LEVEL 10. i'm referring to die another day, in which i'm keeping everything intact... actually, not everything, because even level 10 for both the main movie and extras is still too big to fit on one dvd-r, so i had to remove some audio, but that was it. the quality is great on my 32" and even on my PC up close.

You need to get glasses, Level 10 sucks badly...

[Vejita-sama]

All of the transcoders will produce lower quaility then the source, that's a given. Re-encoding givers better quaility but there is still some quaility lost.

As has been pointed out, if you take a 7GB DVD and compress it down to 4.3GB, no matter what method you use quaility is going to decrease. Just accept that as a fact. The only way not to decrease quaility is to spilt the backup onto two DVDR discs.

As for what is acceptable quaility? That's a personal choice. How many people do you know that only record VHS tapes in ep mode because they "don't want to waste the space." How many people post message here asking how to get 130min video on one 80min CDR? Basically there's no point even debating quaility because good enough varies from person to person.

If you don't like DVDShrink that's fine. That's your choice. But there's realy no point trying to convience other people that it's quaility sucks, because for them the quaility is fine.

Personally I don't like any of the transcoders, but use IFOEdit and DVDShrink to remove extras, strip out VOB IDs, etc.

[shelter]

True.

But the main reason for buying dvd's is to get the best audio and picture experience as possible... right?
Why then make backups that decreases image quailty so much that you're almost decreasing the IQ to VCD/SVCD quailty or maybe even worse?

I mean sure, you will lose SOME quailty with transcoding but you don't have to lose more than necessary.

What I'm trying to prioritize myself is, which method gives best IQ and options (menu/extras/audio/sub stripping) in the easiest way.

Programs can do films differently too, for example, one movie might suck with IC7 but look great with CloneDVD. While another movie might look good with IC7 but it sucks with CloneDVD.
So it's really hard to point out which program that is the best one.

Oh well, I guess you know what I mean... I typed more than I intended to.

[Vejita-sama]

No I really don't understand your point. Yeah I know what you are trying to say, but if you transcode/re-encode you lose quaility. If quaility is your top concern you should back up DVD9 discs onto two DVDR discs. To do anything else lowers the quality.

Once you CHOOSE to lower the quaility the question then becomes how much quaility lost is acceptable _to me_. For many people DVDShrink level 10 is acceptable (hey not to me either but them's the breaks).

Sort of like asking 'I care about quaility I want the best, but I also want a 130min SVCD on one 80min CDR'

I'm not trying to flame you or anything. We're actually agree. But when it comes to DVD9 backups you have to balance: speed, quality, cost, and time. Can't have it all. And again, many people really can't tell the difference between a sp and ep VHS tape, let alone a DVD master and a re-encoded CCE backup at 4.5Mbit/s...

[poopyhead]

really?
i'm using dvd shrink 2.3 right now and it's working great. on certain scenes, i can see minor blockage, but that's at LEVEL 10. i'm referring to die another day, in which i'm keeping everything intact... actually, not everything, because even level 10 for both the main movie and extras is still too big to fit on one dvd-r, so i had to remove some audio, but that was it. the quality is great on my 32" and even on my PC up close.

You need to get glasses, Level 10 sucks badly...

don't know how you're transcoding, but with die another day even lvl 10 looks great on my 32". i've tried sitting up close to the TV and there's not much difference. even on the comp, the movie looks great. HOWEVER, the aspect ratio was anamorphic (i think 2.35:1 or something). so, it's alot easier to compress than full screen stuff. i did notice blockiness on the bonus DVD i compressed at lvl 10 as well. the madonna music video (full screen) has noticable blocks in certain scenes, but that was about it.

also, if you ask MOST ppl to compare SVCD encoded at highest standard bitrate and they most likely will not be able to tell the difference between it and the original DVD. so, on top of that, even lvl 10 transcoding w/ dvdshrink is still better quality than any SVCD.

[shelter]

It's okay for me to lose quality to a certain degree, if the quailty comes out worse than I expected I start to try different programs/settings.
Most of the time I think it's enough to rip the main movie only + subs to get good quality. (good to me that is) So if you're willing to sacrifice the menus and extras, then the quality issue shouldn't be a big problem.

You asked me why I didn't put the movie on 2 DVDR's, well simply because I don't want to... Why? Because I don't want to swap discs in the middle of the movie and for that I'm willing to sacrifice some IQ.

Any no, I didn't take your post as a flame post.. I just typed more than I intented therefor the fuzz in my previous post.

So the conclusion? Let people use whatever they want as long as they're happy but I still think Level 10 quality in DVDShrink is unacceptable for Main Movie.

[shelter]

don't know how you're transcoding, but with die another day even lvl 10 looks great on my 32". i've tried sitting up close to the TV and there's not much difference. even on the comp, the movie looks great. HOWEVER, the aspect ratio was anamorphic (i think 2.35:1 or something). so, it's alot easier to compress than full screen stuff. i did notice blockiness on the bonus DVD i compressed at lvl 10 as well. the madonna music video (full screen) has noticable blocks in certain scenes, but that was about it.

also, if you ask MOST ppl to compare SVCD encoded at highest standard bitrate and they most likely will not be able to tell the difference between it and the original DVD. so, on top of that, even lvl 10 transcoding w/ dvdshrink is still better quality than any SVCD.

Sorry if I threw rocks at you...
Can't argue much about that... I haven't done that movie, nor have i seen it...

Use whateverr you want, I ain't gonna watch your shitty mov... err... great movie anyway.

[poopyhead]

Use whateverr you want, I ain't gonna watch your shitty mov... err... great movie anyway.

well, you were right about one thing. you haven't seen a properly transcoded movie anyways, so you can't base other people's quality on your shitty....err...great movies

[FoolishBrett]

These arguements seem endless. I think that everyone agrees that some quality is lost no matter what program you use. I think almost everyone agrees to the general order of qualtiy programs; Shrink, DVD2one, IC, CCE.

To me more factors come to play. How much time, $, value of the particular move, knowledge, quality, all are factors.

For me I only will do a single disk. Sort of a pride thing.
I break the movies into classes, ones that I will only watch a few times, and ones that I really like.

For the ones that I only watch a few times or are small movies, Shrink is the answer. If Shrink does not work, DVD2one.

For those special movies, IC7.

I have not yet got to working with CCE but it is on my long term list. Although I really think that IC does an excellent job, seems hard to improve on.

I do have a decent TV and can notice artifacts. (Just did Titanic with Shrink at 40%, had distracting blurry edges, but not an important movie to me).

In the end, to each his own.

[Raavin]

Not sure what DVD shrink actually does to shrink the file but I'm assuming it's just a lowering of the bitrate. If it's mosquito noise or blockiness you're worried about, I'd look at converting to 1/2 DVD format, in other words 352 rather than 720 x 576/480. You can then effectively 1/2 the bitrate and retain quality. In spite of what you might think, halving the resolution creates a negligable difference in picture quality and I imagine would eliminate blockiness and possibly mosquito noise. This resolution is also legal DVD resolution.

ReMpeg2 is designed specifically for this operation. I don't burn DVD so tried it for SVCD, but because of the low bitrate there were major problems. I tried it with 1/2 DVD bitrate and the quality seemed excellent. I think it's worth a try. It also preserves the GOP structure and all the other info from the original as it's a transcoder rather than 'en'coder so I imagine you get all the advantages of the multimillion dollar number crunchers the pros use for the original DVD.

I'd be interested to know if you have a try and what you think of the results.

Raavin

[SouthGaBoy]

I use DVD shrink 2.3, I used it to copy Star Trek Nemesis which is just over 7.5 GB, i used the re-encode function not the re-author, of course i had to use a high compression (level 8-10), even a few still pictures(mainly used on some menus), but it came out looking fairly well on both my PC and 27" sharp tv. I used Memorex DVD+R. The only things i didn't keep were the non-english audio parts.