DVD PAL to NTSC Using CCE 2.5

[crazyquilt]

Can anyone provide me with a good script that will work for converting a DVD from PAL to NTSC. I would prefer to use CCE rather than TMPG because I find it to be much faster. The source is 25 fps PAL and is progressive. Hope you can help as I have tried literally everything to covert this file and I am dying to know how to do it.
I can get to the point where I have a .d2v file and ac3/wav, I just need to know where to go from there and what program/script to use....

Hope you can help and thanks in advance.

[malducci]

Avisynth can take the d2v file and slow it down to 23.976 (aka NTSC FILM) - open the source.AVS with CCE and encode it. The audio will have to be slowed down as well - there are many progies that will do that for you. Is the WAV 2-channel? You could use cool edit to stretch the audio from 25fps to 23.976 and keep the pitch. Is the movie a DVD or movie rip(camcordered)?

[adam]

You'll need to install Avisynth and put the mpeg2dec.dll in your plugins directory. Use this script for your video. Depending on what version of Avisynth you use you may be able to skip the first line, but it won't hurt to leave it in.

LoadPlugin("C:\YourPath\AviSynth2\plugins\MPEG2DEC .dll")
mpeg2source("C:\YourPath\YourFileName.d2v")
BilinearResize(688,416,21,0,678,480)
AddBorders(16,32,16,32)
AssumeFPS(23.976, true)
ResampleAudio(44100)

Once your done encoding, run your video through pulldown.exe. Get the gui to make things simpler.

You will have to process your audio separately. Use BeSweet. To ensure that everything works correctly, first decompress your AC3 to wav in BeSweet. Just load the AC3 and set the output to wav. Now reload the wav into BeSweet and set it to encode to AC3 again, but on the bottom right use the regional format conversion presets to convert from PAL to NTSCfilm. Once your done, your video and audio will be NTSC compliant. Depending on your dvd authoring software, either import these streams directly, or first multiplex them into an mpg program stream using something like BBmpeg or TMPGenc.

[FulciLives]

LoadPlugin("C:\YourPath\AviSynth2\plugins\MPEG2DEC .dll")
mpeg2source("C:\YourPath\YourFileName.d2v")
BilinearResize(688,416,21,0,678,480)
AddBorders(16,32,16,32)
AssumeFPS(23.976, true)
ResampleAudio(44100)

I must say I have done PAL DVD to NTSC DVD conversions using TMPGEnc so yes it is true I am NOT experienced with CCE but still ...

I don't understand your BilinearResize/AddBorders command?

Normally I do the following (in-so-far as resizing goes):

LanczosResize(720,480)

This is normally all you need to do (again in-so-far as resizing goes). I have no other complaints with your AVS script.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[adam]

The resizing line I listed crops the letterboxing, resizes the viewable picture, than adds black borders back proportional to what was cropped. Its a very common encoding technique. There is no reason to waste bits on the black borders, might as well save them for what you actually watch.

Your resizing line will work fine, but the one I listed is more efficient for encoding in general. If you want to benefit from such techniques you can use FitCD to create a similar AVS script for you.

If I were just giving someone general PAL->NTSC conversion advice, yes I would have just said resize to 720x480. But since he was asking for a script, I figured I might as well give him an optimized one since he will more than likely just copy and paste.

[crazyquilt]

First of all let me give you all a big thanks for all of your help, I really appreciate it as this has been killing me lately trying to get this done.

That being said, I have tried both scripts that were offered and each of them provided me with this error when trying to run it through cce 2.5

Frame size 748X56 is not supported, Supported frame size is up to 720x576.

I tried:

LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\MPEG2Dec.dll")
mpeg2source("vts_01.d2v")
LanczosResize(720,480)
AssumeFPS(23.976, true)
ResampleAudio(44100)

and

LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\MPEG2Dec.dll")
mpeg2source("vts_01.d2v")
BilinearResize(688,416,21,0,678,480)
AddBorders(16,32,16,32)
AssumeFPS(23.976, true)
ResampleAudio(44100)

Any ideas as to what I am doing wrong?

[FulciLives]

First of all let me give you all a big thanks for all of your help, I really appreciate it as this has been killing me lately trying to get this done.

That being said, I have tried both scripts that were offered and each of them provided me with this error when trying to run it through cce 2.5

Frame size 748X56 is not supported, Supported frame size is up to 720x576.

I tried:

LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\MPEG2Dec.dll")
mpeg2source("vts_01.d2v")
LanczosResize(720,480)
AssumeFPS(23.976, true)
ResampleAudio(44100)

and

LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\MPEG2Dec.dll")
mpeg2source("vts_01.d2v")
BilinearResize(688,416,21,0,678,480)
AddBorders(16,32,16,32)
AssumeFPS(23.976, true)
ResampleAudio(44100)

Any ideas as to what I am doing wrong?

Either script would work with TMPGEnc (which is what I use) but since I don't use CCE I can't offer you any help there.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
If the image of the original DVD is full screen (or even 16x9 that fits from top to bottom as SOME do) then Adam's resizing method would crop actual picture information.

*** EDIT ***
Try adding this line in the AVS script:
crop(0,0,720,576)

Put this CROP command line right after the mpeg2source line but before the resizing line.

[adam]

That is a catch-all error that CCE reports when there is something wrong with your AVS script. Usually its because one of your plug-ins is not properly being recognized. Open the AVS script in Media Player and it will tell you what line in your script the error is occurring on.

Try a simple script first. Just the loadplugin and the mpeg2source. See if media player plays the movie or just reports back an error.

If you are using a later Avisynth versions 2.08 and 2.5.x than the resample audio line won't work. This line was a little work around for a CCE bug. With these later versions you have to create a text file and paste in

function AddAudio(clip v1) {
v2 = Blankclip()
v1 = AudioDub(v1,v2)
return v1
}

and save it in your plugin directory as AddAudio.avsi.

Then in your script, instead of using the resample audio line, use this one instead...

AddAudio()

If this sounds too complicated than you may want to just go back to Avisynth version 2.07. For DVD encoding, it doesn't make all that much difference which of the latter versions of Avisynth you use.

Yes the script I posted was for PAL anamorphic widescreen converted to NTSC anamorphic widescreen. Anamorphic widescreen seems to be the most common DVD source these days, but if you are using a fullscreen source than I can post a different script or you can create your own with FitCD. In any case, this wouldn't be causing the error you are getting in CCE.

Also, if you do decide to use this Avisynth script in TMPGEnc, make sure and add the ConvertToRGB24() line to the end of your script. This will prevent TMPGenc from crashing and it will also increase encoding speed.

[pijetro]

I just went on the AVIsynth website and am confused.

If you wanna delete the black frames for encoding, and still keep them with the add borders command, shouldn't the line read something like this??

BilinearResize(688,416,16,32,-16,-32) #(688,416,16,32,678,448) I believe are the same things
AddBorders(16,32,16,32)

CCE won't accept anything other than DVD compliant frame sizes.
As far as the AddAudio() function goes, it only gives me a slight encoding speed advantage.

[crazyquilt]

Okay, I finally got the script to load error free thanks to all of your recommendations. I was able to load the file and CCE is now doing its thing.

The script I went with at the end was:

LoadPlugin("C:\Apps\Movie Conversion\DVD2SVCD\DVD2SVCD\Avisynth2.5 Plugins\Mpeg2dec\MPEG2Dec3.dll")
mpeg2source("vts_01.d2v")
BilinearResize(688,416,21,0,678,480)
AddBorders(16,32,16,32)
AssumeFPS(23.976, true)
ConvertToYUY2()
ResampleAudio(44100)

Should this work out okay?

[DJRumpy]

It should. Encode a small sample and ensure you're happy with the results. To do this, simply add the following line to the very end of your script:

Trim(5000,10000)

This should give you about a 3 minute clip to encode. Don't forget to take the command back out of your script and save it when your done with the 3 minute clip.

Optionally, just select those frame ranges in the advanced setup in CCE. Since you're new to it, the Trim command may be easier for you.

Adam, I used 2.08 extensively, and never had a problem with ResampleAudio. Do you have the specifics? Also, Xesdeeni ran a few tests runs with BeSweet, resampling audio from PAL to FILM and back. It turns out it uses the same stretching method that AVISynth use to change the speed/framerate of the audio. You aren't really gaining much by doing the audio seperately in BeSweet, since it doesn't do timestreching without changing pitch either

crazyquilt, if you put your Plugin DLL files into your AVISynth PLUGIN directory, you will no longer need to specifically load them manually via the LoadPlugin line. It makes writing script a bit easier. You'll find the PLUGIN directory in your AVISynth program folder ( C:\Apps\Movie Conversion\DVD2SVCD\DVD2SVCD\Avisynth2.5 Plugins\ ). Just drop the DLL file directly into that folder, and it will auto-load.

[adam]

Adam, I used 2.08 extensively, and never had a problem with ResampleAudio. Do you have the specifics?

Are you using CCE 2.5? The addaudio line is only neccesary with CCE 2.5 and newer versions of Avisynth. That has certainly been the results of my tests, and that is what is listed in the CCE faqs on doom9.

Also, Xesdeeni ran a few tests runs with BeSweet, resampling audio from PAL to FILM and back. It turns out it uses the same stretching method that AVISynth use to change the speed/framerate of the audio. You aren't really gaining much by doing the audio seperately in BeSweet, since it doesn't do timestreching without changing pitch either

Its not Avisynth I'm worried about. I don't know of any way to reliably get CCE to encode frameserved audio. On my system it crashes everytime. Furthermore, I don't know about later versions of CCE, but 2.5 does not encode to AC3, which is what the original poster appears to want. I just think processing audio separately through BeSweet is a better route.

[crazyquilt]

I took your advice and made a small sample clip with that line you told me to add to my script(Trim(5000,10000), and I must say I was quite impressed with the end result. Working on the rest of the movie now, may have some questions about the audio in a little while, last time I tried to author a pal->ntsc dvd it was way out of sync, but I will try all of the recommendations in the earlier posts in this thread as I think they will help quite a bit.

[DJRumpy]

Adam, that explains it. I thought that problem was specific to AMD processors though? Something about the ResampleAudio line being required even if there was no sound (anyone remember this?). I didn't know it was a 2.5 problem. I stayed on 2.5 only a short time. No problems with 2.64, or 2.66 (no idea about 2.67, but I assume it's ok. I haven't heard any complaining... )

crazyquilt, with the AssumeFPS(23.976,True) command in your script, your audio is automatically resampled with the video (The TRUE switch is for the audio, specifying whether to keep it sync'd with the video or not. The default is FALSE). If you don't mind MP2 audio, then you won't have to do any additional audio steps, as the MP2 that CCE produces will be in sync with your video. If you want AC3 audio, the you will need to use BeSweet, and the PAL to FILM (23.976) option.

If possible, you should upgrade to the newer versions of CCE, as the newer versions seem to have fewer issues when filesize, cpu, frameserving, etc.

[crazyquilt]

I have my 2 streams now.
I have a .mpv file courtesy of CCE
and
I ripped the audio (6ch) AC3 using smartripper to rip it to an ac3 stream
Then used besweet (the new beta everyone recommended) to convert from ac3 to wav
Then converted from wav to ac3 (specifing the framerate conversion)

Now when I go to author it in Spruceup 1.1, I have an invalid framerate error. Do I need to change some settings?

I also tried pinnacle impression 2.2 to author it, the audio seemed fine at the beginning when I previewed it, however when I skipped along later on it seemed out of synch (May just be a problem with the preview box), so I went on to author it and got the same error. (Invalid framerate)

[adam]

You have to run your video stream through pulldown.exe first. The DVD standard only supports a framerate of 23.976fps internally, meaning you must have the 3:2 pulldown flag present so that the footage will be played back at 29.97fps.

[jbenj01]

Run 3:2 pulldown on your mpv video file that CCE just spit out to change fps from 23.97 to 29.97. You'll Pulldown.exe and PulldownGUI--i think someone mentioned it up above in this thread.

BTW, very good thread--i'm learning a lot.. thx!

[crazyquilt]

Do I need to set any parameters with pulldown.exe

Ie..

pulldown source.m2v target.m2v -??????

[adam]

No, by default pulldown just adds the pulldown flags, which is all you should need. If you use the gui, just load your source and hit process. It will output a new stream in the same directory as your source.

If you choose to not use the gui, just drag and drop your video stream onto the pulldown.exe file and once its done your new file will be located at c:\

[crazyquilt]

I think my preliminary testing has worked out well. I do however have one more question.
I failed to mention before that my source is 16:9 PAL @ 25.00 fps.
I mention this because when I played it back the picture seemed a bit warped.
Also, I am going to be re-encoding the audio separately using Besweet and then use spruceup to author the final product, so can I remove the bottom line that references audio to save encoding time?

Here is my current script (for CCE)

LoadPlugin("C:\Apps\Movie Conversion\DVD2SVCD\DVD2SVCD\Avisynth2.5 Plugins\Mpeg2dec\MPEG2Dec3.dll")
mpeg2source("vts_01.d2v")
BilinearResize(688,416,21,0,678,480)
AddBorders(16,32,16,32)
AssumeFPS(23.976, true)
ConvertToYUY2()
ResampleAudio(44100)

[adam]

Unless you are looking at the video in a software dvd player or in something like dvd2avi, the picture will not be resized correctly so it will look odd. It should look great on the tv though.

Just leave the resample audio line, it has no effect on encoding speed and is just needed to get around bugs in CCE + avisynth on certain hardware setups. Leaving won't hurt anything. In the CCE settings just uncheck audio encoding.

[jbenj01]

adam,

sorry to bug you.. but i've got PAL svcd files at 352x576 and trying to convert to NTSC DVD. Here's what Bitrate Viewer is telling me:

Num. of picture read: 26
Stream type: MPEG-2 MP@ML VBR
Resolution: 352*576
Aspect ratio: 4:3 Generic
Framerate: 25.00
Nom. bitrate: 2500000 Bit/Sec
VBV buffer size: 56
Constrained param. flag: No
Chroma format: 4:2:0
DCT precision: 8
Pic. structure: Frame
Field topfirst: No
DCT type: Field
Quantscale: Nonlinear
Scan type: Alternate
Frame type: Interlaced
Notes:

I've no clue as to what avisynth script for CCE s/b.. I tried reading thru Avisynth manual and am still not understanding.. Please advise.. Also, the video is 'widescreen' but the above says 4:3.. ?? I'd like to end up with the best possible video quality, i.e., allocate as many bits to the actual video rather than any to the black bars..

Thanks in advance..

[FulciLives]

adam,

sorry to bug you.. but i've got PAL svcd files at 352x576 and trying to convert to NTSC DVD. Here's what Bitrate Viewer is telling me:

Num. of picture read: 26
Stream type: MPEG-2 MP@ML VBR
Resolution: 352*576
Aspect ratio: 4:3 Generic
Framerate: 25.00
Nom. bitrate: 2500000 Bit/Sec
VBV buffer size: 56
Constrained param. flag: No
Chroma format: 4:2:0
DCT precision: 8
Pic. structure: Frame
Field topfirst: No
DCT type: Field
Quantscale: Nonlinear
Scan type: Alternate
Frame type: Interlaced
Notes:

I've no clue as to what avisynth script for CCE s/b.. I tried reading thru Avisynth manual and am still not understanding.. Please advise.. Also, the video is 'widescreen' but the above says 4:3.. ?? I'd like to end up with the best possible video quality, i.e., allocate as many bits to the actual video rather than any to the black bars..

Thanks in advance..

Please forgive me if this is thought of to be rude ... it is NOT my intention ... but this THREAD started out talking about PAL to NTSC conversion with a DVD source. Since SVCD and DVD are different I think it would be best if you re-posted your question in a fresh new THREAD rather than piggy-back it here.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[adam]

jbenj01, use this script.


LoadPlugin("C:\YOURPATH\MPEG2DEC.dll")
mpeg2source("c:\YOURPATH\filename.d2v")
SeparateFields()
BilinearResize(320,224,0,0,352,288).Weave()
AddBorders(16,16,16,16)
AssumeFPS(23.976, true)
ResampleAudio(44100)


Or as said before, you can skip the first line if you are using a newer version of avisynth and place the mpeg2dec.dll in the AVISYNTH\PLUGINS directory.

[jbenj01]

Fulci-- not rude--you're right. sorry.

adam, i've no clue how you came up with that script.. but thanks! i tried 'cheating' by running the d2v file thru vfapi reader, then to tmpgenc plus--you don't want to know what the end result was..

[adam]

I simply used FitCD. You load your d2v file or manually input your source's parameters and then you set your output resolution and it creates an AVS script for you. I highly recommend using this tool.

[CyberDude101]

Okay, simplest way I have found to do this:

- Process the DVD in DVD2AVI to create your audio tracks and d2v file.

- Open d2v file in TMPGEnc, load DVD (NTSC) template, adjust settings to match your source (progressive, top field first, aspect ratio etc) The save as a TMPGEnc project.

- Open the project in VFAPI Converter to make your pseudo AVI file

- load the AVI into CCE, apply the appropriate settings (refer to BirateView for settings), encode

- after encoding there is no need to apply pulldown.exe because it is already 29fps

- Process the audio using BeSweet, use the PAL --> NTSC filter and then make your new AC3 file

- Open the BeSweet processed AC3 file into a program called AC3 Delayer to add the DVD2AVI delay in order to synch your audio perfectly, this will create another AC3 file, use that one when you author

- Author, and you're done

Out of all the methods i've tried this one works perfectly and yields the best quality.

[jbenj01]

Interesting.. using both TMPGEnc AND CCE for the same project..??

So instead of creating the pseudo-avi file directly from DVD2AVI's d2v file, you import the d2v file into TMPGenc Plus to create.. um.. a new d2v file?? then import that new ?? file into VFAPI Converter to create the pseudo-avi file, correct?

How long does TMPGEnc take to create that ?? (new d2v) file?

[adam]

CyberDude, no offense but that is definitely not the proper way to convert PAL to NTSC. Film is telecined to 29.97fps by interlacing the frames and repeating fields in a specific pattern. If you simply load a 25fps source into TMPGenc and set output to 29.97fps than it will randomly repeat frames to increase the framerate. This is bad for three very major reasons. First off, you are repeating frames instead of fields, which is very noticable. Second, you are not repeating using a specified pattern, so again the change is very noticable. These two differences make the playback very choppy. Finally, you are encoding at 29.976fps when you could have encoded at 23.976fps. This means you have 20% more frames to encode every second which is a horrible waste of bitrate. The result is a drop in quality of about 15%.

These are all very well documented problems with this type of transfer, and incidentally, almost all NTSC DVDs are encoded at 23.976fps, and PAL is NEVER converted to NTSC in this manner.

If you have a 25fps source then the proper way to convert it to NTSC is to first slow it down to 23.976fps. From there you can simply let the dvd player convert to 29.97fps as it plays. This is the easiest and highest quality way to convert PAL to NTSC, and it is really the only way to properly do it short of doing an actual hard telecine to 29.97fps, which is lower quality anyway and really only necessary for analog output.

jbenj01, you save the TMPGenc project as a tpr, its just a project file. From there VFAPI converter converts this to basically a fake avi file. It loads just like an avi, but you are really frameserving through both TMPGenc and VFAPI, and needless to say, you take a major encoding speed hit as a result. I strongly recommend you stick to avisynth if you are comfortable with it. If you do want to frameserve through TMPGenc for this type of conversion, than you MUST set the output framerate to 23.976fps and not 29.97fps. You must also check the "do not framerate conversion" filter on the advanced tab.

[adam]

BTW CyberDude101, just a little tip. BeSweet has an option to adjust the audio delay, so there is no need to run AC3 Delayer separately. In fact, I believe BeSweet is a front end for AC3 Delayer.