The MPAA....

[tgpo]

The MPAA....

They don't really bother me, but there rules are very dumb and I feel oppressive!

[flaninacupboard]

has no effect on what they do, i'm in the UK. does sound like they suck though.

[j1d10t]

I think they need to realize that if what they are doing now isn't working, try something else! If you're going one direction and it's not looking good, try going the other direction. Maybe if they bend a little, aren't so hard nosed, they can work it to their advantage...

[Vejita-sama]

I think the MPAA should be pretty pissed off. People are stealing their property and robbing them of sales. However, I don't like them. And the whole DMCA is pure crap.

[thefox149]

Don't you think that if Companies like Sony etc had made Audio CD's DVD's more price effective for the everyday consumer then they would have minimised piracy.....In Australia an Audio CD cost 30 (15 American)
Thats far to much it were 12 (6dollars US) bucks Most people would bother downloading it

[rude_skankin]

MPAA = Most Pathetic Association in America

[mysticgohan17]

considering i just downloaded a book without a hint of guilt, I've realized money is only made off stuff that makes people fat, stupid etc. (like fast food, video games, TV, movies and stuff)

[Nitemare]

I agree comletely with thefox149. I don't know of a single person bootlegging movies for resale in my area. The few people I know of who back up DVDs illegally do it because the DVDs are too price prohibitive for them. (Note: I often argue that the $1000 PC they want to back up their DVD rentals with would have bought quite a few DVDs)

Okay... I won't pass any more judgements. Most "bootleggers" only do so for their personal use because the price of DVDs, computer software, and audio CDs is more than they are willing to pay. Lowering the price would stem the vast majority of illegal backups in all cases.

Also, at the risk of sounding like conspiracy theorist, there are the blatant ways that these companies use to STEAL our money. I remember when audio CDs were brand new. Some sales guy in a mall took an audio CD and tossed it like a frisbee, sliding it across the floor. He asked if any of us were brave enough to do this with our 45 records, and none of us were. He popped the same CD into a CD player and it played flawlessly. I was pretty impressed.

So what ever happened to that "feature"? Simple. It occurred to some record company exec. that they'd never be able to make millions on the replacing of damaged and scratched Cds if they allowed this to continue so they buried the technology.

And I'm supposed feel sorry for these [expletive]? They killed our beloved vinyl and forced us to take what they wanted us to have at DOUBLE the price even though it only cost them 1/3 (at that time) of the price to make it.

The same is happening with DVD now. Why does a DVD cost more than a video when you KNOW it's cheaper for them to produce? (at least it was until they invested all that money into worthless copy protection schemes) Instead of getting a clue they throw good money after bad persuing litigation and newer and better copy protection. Reasonable pricing is all they need. The DMCA is just one more example of the dirty tricks these [expletive] use to steal our money.

I buy very few DVDs (and I back it up even before I watch it for the first time) and almost never go to the theater to see a movie. I'd do a lot more of both if the price weren't so ridiculous. These people are NOT earning my respect or my money.

Still... bootlegs aren't the answer. If no one bought their product at the current prices, then they'd be FORCED to lower the price. Bootlegs only give them a reason to ignore the obvious. "No! It's not because we're greedy and stupid! It's the bootleggers, man! They must be stopped!"

The people making illegal backups argue that these companies would never see their money anyway, so technically they're not "losing" anything. It's a weak argument but it has some merit. Why make bootlegs that may not play on a future DVD player when you could buy a reasonably priced product and use it? Right now the only reason is that the reasonably priced product is missing from the equation.

Sorry for the length. These jokers (MPAA, RIAA) really [expletive] me off!
Nitemare

[overloaded_ide]

Nitemare,

You hit the head right on the nail! They are to stupid to see anything for what its worth! $10 is the most ANY CD is worth if even that! More like $5!
Finnally I am buying tons of DVD's now, $5.88 at Wall Mart! Sure old movies, but stuff we want. I won't buy the $18 rehashed old movies though just because they put in some deleted scene, or worse just becaue it's owned by a greedy company and is the exact same old movie!

Napster for instance! How much money have they blown over that crapola.
Fact 1, great advertising method for thier cds! To stupid to see it though!

Fact 2, half the stuff I downloaded (did not download alot) was actually junk! Poorley ripped, low quality sound, smaps, crakles, hiss, and the end was cut off!

SO I download a song, I like the song, the quality is trash, so I go out and buy the cd! Yea, that cost them alot of money! I got to hear what I bought first, when I would not have bought it otherwise!

fact 3 first time sales were reported down to such low levels was AFTER they got Napster shut down! Stopped the piracy and lost sales!!! What does that tell anyone with a brain! They cut thier own throat!

Most CDs have a couple decent new songs and the rest is garbage or rehashed old stuff. Once you buy it and find you paid $16 for 2 good songs and 8 garbage ones you cannot return it for a refund! So who is ripping off who??

So I was not buying ANY CDs untill napster came along. Then I was able to hear the whole cd one song at a time, so If I liked em I bought em! I bought alot of cds then, mostly for the kid.
With all the garbage over napster, and I don't care to change P2P or go in for spy ware, I no-longer preview the CDs and that means I don't buy them now again! So what cost them the most money?

Also with billions of songs out by millions of artists, are they even selling the stuff I want? NO, I want old stuff and not a rehash melody of the 60's greatest hits type junk either. So if I were to pirate a song I want, big deal, they aren't even selling it!

Many movies the same way! Remember Gilligans Island? The whole cast was in a movie, Think it was Whackiest Wagon Train or something like that. I have an account at several big movie venders to buy wholesale for retail and for rentals. They have the Movie listed, it was once sold, but you can not get it now! Dead item! So what if I grab a pirate copy somehow? They refuse to sell it to me!!
I haven't been buying wholesale lattely becuase of the high dollar volume I have to purchase at once, and wall mart has it for less if they have it at all! But I have access to nearly everything that's being sold!

The goverments need to step in and change the copy right laws to the consumers advantage. Once something is no longer produced and available for purchase it should become public domain right then! NOT life and 76 years latter! What kinda garabe is that BONO amendment?

Talk about conflict of interest and crooks! Who got paid what over those BONO changes to the copyrights?

You do know what I mean by BONO right. It can be taken several ways, and I mean both of them. SONY BONO, of SONY AND CHER, as congressman got several changes to the existing copyright laws made.
Higher royalties, and the now artists life plus 76 yrs untill it becomes public domain. It was 26yrs renewable for another 26yrs, then became public domain! 56yrs total is enough to get rich off one lucky phrase! Get real! Tell me there was not payoffs involved, or no conflict of interest in serving the public and being a big name entertainer and owner of copyrights when THOSE laws were changed!

So do I really care about the big guys profits if I steal a song or movie or tv show sometime that is not available to buy anyway??

I mean really, who's the bigest thief here? The big movie and recording compaines or us little guys that get a few things for our own personal use?
And then on top of that, we have to fight to use what we actually legaly bought and have full legal right to use!
Snowwhite Disney Platinum edition DVD would not work on the PC till I found and installed a macrovision patch! I bought 6 copies for about $150 and was not even able to watch them!
Today I tried to watch JUMANJI with Robin Willians and even with the patch installed and a signal cleaner I got the goofey lines destroing the picture on the PC! That was VHS, but I like to watch stuff on the PC for better picture and 6 channel surround sound. SO even though I legally own the movies and habe the right to watch them they are trying to BONO me again!
New phrase, " Don't Bono that movie"
Like the old "Don't Bogart that joi*t"

[Balaclava]

Excuse my ignorance but exactly what is the MPAA. It seems that I don't understand a lot of the topics on your polls. This makes it very difficult for me to vote. That is why I usually chose the tgpo option when it is available.

[seinman]

Not to be too nitpicky, but shouldn't it say "I Hate Them And Their Stupid Rules?"

[mysticgohan17]

Excuse my ignorance but exactly what is the MPAA. It seems that I don't understand a lot of the topics on your polls. This makes it very difficult for me to vote. That is why I usually chose the tgpo option when it is available.

Motion Picture Association of America, they regulate trade on film in the United States.

[tgpo]

Not to be too nitpicky, but shouldn't it say "I Hate Them And Their Stupid Rules?"

What can I say....I hate English and it's stupid rules.

[Nitemare]

Ah yes, ...materials that are no longer for sale. In some cases, it's been banned in my country. If you live in the USA, you can't buy Disney's "Song of the South", nor will you see it broadcast here. It's been banned.

I've never seen it so I'm not sure why... but you know the USA... 1 out of every 6 persons is a lawyer. Lately, we've been geting nailed with terrorist attacks. They should just wait it out. Lawyers and greedy corporations will destroy this country in just a few more years and the average citizen fears the lawsuit more than the bomb. A bomb will just kill you, a lawsuit will make you wish you were dead... but I digress...

This is a product that I'd be happy to rent or possibly purchase, but it is not and WILL not be available here. IF I had high speed internet access and IF I could find a rip/capture of this movie from another country I'd probably download it in a second... and then I'd go to prison and get a huge fine. ...and for what? "Stealing" something that I couldn't buy if I wanted to?

These people have no interest in what the consumer wants. Instead they try to TELL us what we want and then pass more laws to force us to take it. I quietly continue to vote with my wallet... and hover at $5.88 rack in WalMart.

MADNESS!!!

[Gazorgan]

Well let's see:

1) I saw a newly released DVD this weekend for $19.95 (US), while the VHS was $14.95. That fact alone is what truly Pisses me off! We have professionals on these forums that know the costs of Commercially duplicating DVD's and VHS tapes. It's utter crapola I have to pay $5 more for something that doesn't cost more to make. For this reason, and this reason alone I don't buy new release movies.

2) In the US, when you 'buy' a movie, you haven't. All you have purchased is some plastice or some plastic/magnetic material. You don't 'own' anything. You haven't purchased the rights to a copy of the movie. Herein lies the fundamental flaw in the MPAA in the digital age. If I could purchase a license to a movie, then I'd be a happy camper. It could be on DVD, DVDR, CDR, my Server, My tivo, doesn't really matter. The Audio industry is going this way, they don't really ahve a choice in the matter. The MPAA lives in fear of this method because they (rightly) fear no one will pay for their movies. Not. Less than 1% in the US backup their stuff.....the average person doesn't have a clue you can even do it, despite the 4 spams a day telling them otherwise.

3) I recently took my son to see 'Matrix 2'. The whole endeavor cost me $38.50. That was $11.50 for tickets and $27.00 for junkfood. Now how can I add the cost of junkfood to the movie price? Easy, I can't bring in food with me, or drinks or anything. $9.00 tubs of popcorn do affect movie sales. Now I really wanted to see Matrix 2 in stadium seats and THX sound, and I paid a lot for it. I wouldn't pay that again to see it a second time, and 'Box Office hits' have to bee seen more than once (Harry Potter, Star Wars, films like that). However, having seen Matrix 2 in awesome conditions, I would be content to watch it again on my TV in regular surround sound (The candy is red, just like in the first film, I missed it the first time).

4) How many people have VHS tapes of something recorded off of HBO? Everyon in the US that has/had HBO? WTF is the difference if I do that, but use my DVR instaed? Not a thing that I can see. It's EXACTLY the same. Doesn't make it right, but since EVERYONE does it, it's a defacto accepted practice and the MPAA can't do a thing about it. Well, they got Macrovision mandated, but my digital cablebox doesn't support macrovision so why aren't they suing Texas Instruments and Time Warner Cable?

At some point the theaters are going to fade,a nd people will watch new releases on Cable/Internet. Imagine how many people would pay to see movies at home? I mean it's $3.95 now for some old flick from 5 years ago with digital cable. I'm sure new releases would be higher. Not as high as a PPV event. Heck, maybe they will do it like Disney, and release directly to DVD and avoid the theater alltogether?

[pablo180]

There are several good points already made here, such as what happens when you can’t buy something like a song or a film for love nor money. In my opinion that is the only time that there is a possible reason for having an illegal copy. But even then you have to look at it from the artist’s point of view, just cos they aren’t making it anymore doesn’t mean you can have it for free.

Not all that long ago Microsoft carried out a big investigation into copyright theft and copyright protection. I think they were hoping to prove that their Palladium product would solve all the piracy problems. Anyway this investigation concluded that fighting piracy was a losing battle because there was no such thing as a fool proof copyright protection system. They concluded that rather than spending the money on copyright protection the best way to fight piracy was to make better and cheaper products.

Unfortunately it doesn’t seem like Microsoft or anybody else paid any attention to that expensive investigation. If they made DVD’s cheaper then noone would be interested in getting an illegal copy. I think that the Movie Industry exaggerate the effect of piracy on their business. There has always been the big counterfeiter’s and yes it is on the increase but so is counterfeit clothing. Why? Cos clothing is becoming more and more expensive (designer clothing). It is just an excuse to push the prices up. Worldwide DVD sales are on the increase, so it can’t be seriously damaging sales like they make out.

They stimulate piracy by staggering the releases of the films around the world. Someone in the US with a camcorder can have the film on the net within days of it being released. In Europe\Asia someone will likely download it rather than wait three or four months before it is out there. There were loads of bootleg copies of Attack of the Clones going round work months before it was released, lots of people were tempted. I wasn’t as a crappy pirate can make a film seem shit and put you off going to see it or renting it. However with the Matrix Reloaded it was released around the world about the same time. By the time the bloke at work came in waving his pirate copy everybody that wanted to see it already had, at the cinema. Staggering releases and DVD regions just add fuel to the piracy fire.

Also a guy in the UK is trying to start a new type of cinema here called EasyCinema, where you buy the tickets online so there is no staff (barely) anyway the tickets are 20p each. Surprise surprise the big movie companies wouldn’t sell him any films cos they don’t like the prices he is charging saying they are just too low. He did start off with a few, I went to see Cradle to the Grave and for 20p you can’t go wrong. Now they just seem to be showing films that are available to rent. Pressure from the movie industry perhaps?


There is a word for this sort of behaviour, Greed!

[Gazorgan]

Good point. If you could buy the DVD for $8.95 (2x the cost of renting it or getting it from digital cable), then there is no point in stealing it. Factoring in the cost of media, time, and cost of burner, it's just not worth the effort. I can see a vending machine with DVD's instead of candy, jsut the latest releases.

Oh wait......I'm talking about the DVD's that turn opaque after being exposed to air. At least I got the price right. You know, if the disk is going to go bad 48 hours after I open it, I guess I should back it up right away!!!!!!!! Talk about a counter productive technology :P

[pablo180]

The MPA (or MPAA) and the music industry have been lobbying for changes in the law in Europe as well. In fact due to their lobbying a law has recently come into effect in Europe that really takes the piss. It was due to go through in the UK in December but I haven’t heard anything about it since then so it probably went through during the Iraq war when everyone’s attention was diverted.

Basically this new law would change the UK’s current fair trading policy making it possible to make CD’s and DVD’s that won’t play in PC’s. Under current fair trading laws if you make a CD or a DVD it must conform to the standard and be playable in CD and DVD players. If it doesn’t you can get it refunded or make a complaint under the fair trade act. Under this new law it will be possible for the music and film industry to make CD’s and DVD’s that won’t play in all current players. If you buy a new CD get it home and your home stereo won’t play it you won’t be entitled to a refund or to complain. In fact if I remember rightly the only way you could complain would be to the Home Secretary who would then take it up with the company if he felt there was a need.

The reason for this change is so that the movie and music industries can start making CD’s and DVD’s that won’t play in PC’s to try and stop piracy. They’ll probably not work in a lot of older stereos and DVD players too but they don’t seem to care.

According to the music and film industry’s this new law will allow them to make better copyright protected CD’s and DVD’s as they are currently restricted by the CD and DVD formats. A slight change in the format will make many CD and DVD players obsolete but now there is a new law to cover their backs so they don’t have to worry about that.

This law has already come into effect in several EU countries.

[sctele]

All I gotta say is that if i download a movie, and like it, I usually buy it. I think that if you've downloaded a whole bunch of movies or songs, buy at least one movie and album that you've really liked. I had no problem shelling out a couple of bucks for the Fellowship of the Ring: collectors edition. Sure it was expensive, but hey I liked the movie and I liked the additional dvd's that you got with it. On a side note: best buy is having a special where they have 4 movies for 30 bucks. I intend to get the Man with No Name trilogy (clint eastwoods spaghetti westerns) and Zulu. They cost like $10 a piece if you buy them seperatly. Not a bad deal I say! What do you guys think?

[zzyzzx]

1) I saw a newly released DVD this weekend for $19.95 (US), while the VHS was $14.95. That fact alone is what truly Pisses me off! We have professionals on these forums that know the costs of Commercially duplicating DVD's and VHS tapes. It's utter crapola I have to pay $5 more for something that doesn't cost more to make.

It's utter crapola to pay more for something that costs them less to make.

3) I recently took my son to see 'Matrix 2'. The whole endeavor cost me $38.50. That was $11.50 for tickets and $27.00 for junkfood. Now how can I add the cost of junkfood to the movie price? Easy, I can't bring in food with me, or drinks or anything. $9.00 tubs of popcorn do affect movie sales.

Nobody is forcing you to actually set foot in a movie theater. If you must go to a theater, go to a second run theater. Personally I wait for it to come on cable.

[j1d10t]

Gazorgan is right about having to pay more for the DVD than the VHS. It sucks! It's like paying Texaco (for one) more money NOT to put lead in the gas...

[Bullworth]

Not bad deal at all. Best Buy at least tries to give the consumer better deals on DVDs with such offers. I mostly but anime DVDs and just because of this they are usually about $20 to $25. For a while they had a special where if you bought 3 DVDs you could get any other DVD of equal or lesser value free as well as $5 off the other DVDs.
The MPAA is just full of greedy, stuck-in-the-past fools who think that they can stong-arm the public to do their bidding. I haven't bought a movie for a while now because I'm simply not willing to pay $5 to $10 more for a product that cost less to make. It's the movie industry's way of trying to screw the public because they think that we're going to accept anything they tell us. You'd think that after it was exposed that CD prices were kept artifically high that they'd be more careful, intead they seem to have become even more contemptful of business practices. And where the hell is the government in all of this? Probably counting the money these associations paid them to leave them alone.
If a DVD were to cost $10 to $15 I probably wouldn't make as many backups. The most annoying trend now is the release of about 6 "special edition" movies in a year. There is always new unreleased footage, additional scenes, director's commentary, and a whole bunch of other useless crap. With VHS this was rare and usually a re-release meant an improvement in quality or additional footage that made the movie a whole new experience.

[Vejita-sama]

pablo180 - this is/could be a problem in the USA as well. Some of the newer CDs released have copy protection schemes that make them unplayable on some older CD Players.

There are projects in the works to make newer protection schemes for DVDs that could cause the same problem, ie. since they do not fully conform to the DVD standard not all players will be able to play the discs.

I haven't heard anything about not being able to return them thou?!

The MPAA and RIAA should be pissed off that people are robbing them. But as others have pointed out what percentage of people are actually pirating discs? Someone threw out 1% but I doubt its that high. I only personally know two other people that own DVD burners. One guy is trying to make it as a screen writer in LA and produces home movies/weddings/etc., and the other guy has a standalone recorder.

All the other 'nerd/geek/tech' friends I know don't have a DVDR and have no plans to buy one in the near future. I seriously doubt that the lost sales from DVDR copies result in having to sell a new DVD for $29.95 MSRP

At the same time that does NOT make pirating right or moral. But then speeding is also illegal...

[pablo180]

I haven't heard anything about not being able to return them thou?!

Yeah sorry I meant that because the law has changed you can no longer take it back and demand a refund. This is because it is not considered defective or anything just because it doesn't play in your player. Although some places may still change it for you or give you a refund they are under no obligation to do so.

But as others have pointed out what percentage of people are actually pirating discs? Someone threw out 1% but I doubt its that high.

I think you’re right about that, also even if DVD burners become as popular as CD burners I doubt that the increase in piracy would be all that great. CD burners are pretty popular and to copy a music CD all you need to do is stick in the CD and press copy. But I have never done that, I don’t know anyone that does copy CD’s for other people or even themselves (unless you count MP3’s on your hard drive.) Backing up a DVD is much, much more complicated and the average bloke on the street isn’t going to bother with that. Most will probably not even know it is possible.

As for making the DVD’s cheaper, I think that would virtually kill off piracy. The big counterfeiters are hardly likely to set up business if there isn’t much money in it. You don’t set up a counterfeit money operation to copy 50p’s or £1 coins, or to sell fake C&A clothes. They are only counterfeited because they are so expensive in the first place. About £10 for a DVD seems reasonable.

And yes where is the Government? Aren’t there supposed to be Watchdogs against this sort of thing?

[DivXExpert]

The MPAA seems sorta like a monopoly. All the Major Motion Picture Groups, organized together, into one group, that sells 95% of all the movies in the USA.

And I do think that they loose a fair amount of money due to piracy. I saw someone uploading "Zoolander" to 40 different people on Kazaa (which sucks btw), and I thought to myself, "How many people are buying Zoolander right now? Certainly not 40."

DVDs and CDs are expensive, I wish they would lower the price. But it not only the cost of the plastic that goes into that, its the cost of the studio recording, the artists, ect...
It adds up. That one of the reasons they are so expensive. But 25 bucks for a DVD and 15 for a CD, might be a little much.

[Craig Tucker]

And I do think that they loose a fair amount of money due to piracy. I saw someone uploading "Zoolander" to 40 different people on Kazaa (which sucks btw), and I thought to myself, "How many people are buying Zoolander right now? Certainly not 40."

Just to be devils advocate how many of those 40 do you think would buy it if they could not download it, I would guess 0, like you say crap film. A lot of people download just because they can, and if they could not this does not mean they would be out buying the DVD.

[astroruben]

Blockbuster all the way!

[weeyoo]

IMHO...

The MPAA and RIAA are crying wolf.

The money has not disappeared, but only shifted, and has given rise to new industries. Examples, PC companies and hardware makers, CD-R makers, DVD-R makers, burners, broadband, vid cap cards, encoding software (among other programs), DVD players that play burned disks, MP3 Players, ripping software for MP3's, CD players that play burned disks, and the list can go on and on. Many of these industries are absolutely booming, if the RIAA and MPAA get what they actually think they want, many of these industries will see huge cutbacks and layoffs, including the ones fighting the war on piracy. There will not be a need for them any longer if they win their fight.

Just my opinion....

[Nitemare]

"But it not only the cost of the plastic that goes into that, its the cost of the studio recording, the artists, ect... It adds up. That one of the reasons they are so expensive."-divxexpert

I have to respectfully disagree. This is the same song and dance that the RIAA has been doing for years. Those things existed long before their artificially inflated prices came along. Back in the day it didn't adequately explain why CDs were twice as much as albums, and today that argument falls just as flat for DVDs. It's BS.

I don't think they even care about piracy! Consider this: a friend of mine bought what he thought was an unreleased demo of a Boston cd from a seller on e-bay. He paid $30 for this cd and what he got was some crappy bootleg from (are you ready for this?) NORIAA productions.

This thing was home made all the way and even had just a blank cd inside with some Sharpie writing on it. He notified e-bay because he wanted to return it to the seller and get his money back but the seller was being difficult. E-bay didn't care, despite all of their stern warnings against piracy. They just encouraged him to leave negative feedback.

I pointed him to the RIAA website (which offers a reward for turning in bootleggers). After much prompting from me, he notified the RIAA directly of his bootleg and of E-bay's apathy towards said bootlegger. Can you guess the end of the story? That's right ... the RIAA didn't care!

All of these companies are using piracy as an excuse to keep their prices artifically inflated. They have no real interest in protecting themselves from bootleggers. At least the RIAA doesn't. Why? Perhaps many of us are right and the problem just isn't as big as they pretend.

So the big question is this; aside from protecting their prices, what ARE they after with all of this legislation and the DMCA? Any thoughts?

[shochan]

ok i just wrote a long response to things in this post but some how it never made it so im going to try a condinsed version.

1. it is not he mpaa jacking up prices it is the people selling them to you. do you think they bought them for 19.95 and selling them to you for the same because they like you. no they like you because you are paying 19.95 a movie that they bought for 3 dollars a piece. it is called markup. a common business practice used to make money and pay employees. That is why they cost so damn much.

2. the mpaa is nothing more than the mafia of the movie industry. they only care and help the people that pay them. They are there to make sure that their clients best intrist is looked after.

3. piracy is a real issue around the world to american movie industries. most of you cant see it and never will until you move to a place that does not follow american copyright laws. for the past 6 months i have been living in south korea where they dont follow copyright laws. you can buy anything her you want from cds to rolex watches. there are entire markets devoted to just selling pirated vcds and dvdr movies. some crappy some perfect. there is alot more out in the world causing the mpaa and movie industries to take offensive postures besides what you see. I have seen more movies pass throught these markets in 1 min than any one of you have ever burned in your life....

But believe me i was there buying them too!

Shochan