The MPAA....

[txpharoah]

Gazorgan is right about having to pay more for the DVD than the VHS. It sucks! It's like paying Texaco (for one) more money NOT to put lead in the gas...

I understand the attempted analogy, but oil companies REMOVE the lead from gas, they don't add it back in.

But yes, DVD and CD media are faster and cheaper to produce than VHS. They can make twice at many at half the price! So yes, the prices are unfair, and that will probably change one day.

[Nitemare]

OKay, I accept everything you say about Korean piracy as truth because I've no reason not to. If the piracy is so prevailant overseas, why not hammer on them over there instead of raking us over the coals here?

I also accept (to a point) your comments about mark-up pricing. There is certainly enough evidence to support it. New release DVD at WalMart- $20 The same DVD at Blockbuster? $25-$30.

The point many of us are trying to make is that a VHS of the same movie is much cheaper and there's no plausible or acceptable reason for it since we KNOW that it's actually cheaper to produce the DVD. Making a telcined VHS is more expensive than a DVD that doesn't need that expensive conversion. So why are they $5-$10 more than a VHS and how do they justify that pricing?

The answer is that they can't. Real or alleged piracy has nothing to do with this pricing discrepancy.

[txpharoah]

OKay, I accept everything you say about Korean piracy as truth because I've no reason not to. If the piracy is so prevailant overseas, why not hammer on them over there instead of raking us over the coals here?

Some countries are not part of the Berne Convention, and their laws support what they do.

I also accept (to a point) your comments about mark-up pricing. There is certainly enough evidence to support it. New release DVD at WalMart- $20 The same DVD at Blockbuster? $25-$30.

That's pure truth. However, the sales from the copyright owner are still higher than VHS. The higher costs ends up passed on to the consumer, though that high is also marked up.

The point many of us are trying to make is that a VHS of the same movie is much cheaper and there's no plausible or acceptable reason for it since we KNOW that it's actually cheaper to produce the DVD. Making a telcined VHS is more expensive than a DVD that doesn't need that expensive conversion. So why are they $5-$10 more than a VHS and how do they justify that pricing? The answer is that they can't. Real or alleged piracy has nothing to do with this pricing discrepancy.

Absolutely.

And then you hear about the fat-cat executives at those movie studios and see the multi-million dollar "stars" walking around with bad attitudes. It makes me want to puke. We're actually paying for those a-holes!

[txpharoah]

And I do think that they loose a fair amount of money due to piracy. I saw someone uploading "Zoolander" to 40 different people on Kazaa (which sucks btw), and I thought to myself, "How many people are buying Zoolander right now? Certainly not 40."

Just to be devils advocate how many of those 40 do you think would buy it if they could not download it, I would guess 0, like you say crap film. A lot of people download just because they can, and if they could not this does not mean they would be out buying the DVD.

I had to respond to this one too. Craig is right on the mark here. Many of the people that download MP3 and movies and even software for that matter, would never have bought or rented them to being with. These things have value, however to many individuals, this value is canceled out by the extraordinarily high price for the product.

Kazaa is probably the most popular share method online, with others having lower numbers. Even then, these all represent a rather small number of the Internet user-base. I know people from all walks of life, and many have never heard of these services, much less know what they can do.

If piracy was truly impossible, then the actual sales wouldn't be too much higher. The audience for these items and the online piracy audiences only overlap by so much. For MPAA and RIAA to says the loss are $X billion per year is ludicrous. They would NEVER have seen those amounts, as the people that pirated the works would have just done without.

Unlike the hogs at these companies, some people simply cannot afford to be entertained. This is where it comes down to a social issue. Should lower-wage individuals be punished from the joys of art, such as movies and music? Or from life-enhancing technology such as computer programs? These questions are still being thrown around by those that are not blinded by pure law or pure greed, but by those with insight to understand the human factor. These are serious things to consider, even though many would dismiss them without any thought.

In my eyes, my work ethics aside - this is personal beliefs, RIAA and MPAA are the mob, and the DMCA and current updates that exist for the copyright laws are little more than outcomes of goverment bribery. While these works were made for profit, they were also made as art, and much of it is being lost. I have a VERY HARD TIME finding certain shows and movies. I have access to a large inventory of shows, but I'm still unable to acquire quite a few items that I've been searching for the past 6 years or so.

[shochan]

OKay, I accept everything you say about Korean piracy as truth because I've no reason not to. If the piracy is so prevailant overseas, why not hammer on them over there instead of raking us over the coals here?

I also accept (to a point) your comments about mark-up pricing. There is certainly enough evidence to support it. New release DVD at WalMart- $20 The same DVD at Blockbuster? $25-$30.

The point many of us are trying to make is that a VHS of the same movie is much cheaper and there's no plausible or acceptable reason for it since we KNOW that it's actually cheaper to produce the DVD. Making a telcined VHS is more expensive than a DVD that doesn't need that expensive conversion. So why are they $5-$10 more than a VHS and how do they justify that pricing?

The answer is that they can't. Real or alleged piracy has nothing to do with this pricing discrepancy.

Well to go with that what you are paying for other peoples stupidity. The mark up on dvds to vhs is done for one reason.. Technology. That is why the consumer market raisis the price. you are paying for dd 5.1, dts, special features, bonus scenes, prety boxes and overall 10 fold quality. many of you reading this were amazed when you first bought your first dvd player and movie and watched it. Then it was worth the price differance to you, it was worth the 5 bucks differance. Now we are spoiled with the knowledge of how cheap and easy these things are to recreate and make. Hell if I can burn a dvd for less than a dollar these fools have to make them alot cheaper. But then again 99% (estimate) of the average american user does not know how easy it is or how cheap they are to reproduce. They are more interested in what special features they get in their dvds and how flashy the menu is. No matter how plausable it is, the only way to remedy this situation is for someone to educate the average consumer on how much they are getting ripped off. They have to be educated that these are only pitted plastic discs.

What did you think the first time you watched your first dvd?

For me it was going from cassette tape to cd music. I was amazed at the quality.

Again you are paying for the stupid consumers view on quality. Nothing more.

[overloaded_ide]

First it depends what gas is higher priced if they take the lead out or put it in
Leaded gas was higher because they had to put the lead in once upon a time, then later...
When unleaded gas first came about it was higher priced because they had to take the lead out supposedly! At least that was the claim in the 70's! Just depends what they want to charge more for.

It cost $20 bucks for our family of 3 to go to the theater, no extra's, we smuggle in our soda's and candy bars in the wife and kids purses the rare times we go! We also take our trash out with us the same way! Check the purse and tell me I can't take it in I won't go period at all, period!

The only real cost for the movie is making it, the disks it's on cost very little, so it's nearly all profit! I saw looking of Grelims (1984?) it cost 11m to make, grossed 130m at box offices alone! Costs $20 candian (not sure us where I am) on DVD as new realease in 2002? Duhhh, 20 year old movie was paid for in box offices, then VHS sales for nearly 20 yrs, now $20??? Yep they would go broke if I stole a copy of that somehow

As for mark ups, ya same as anything else the store is in business to profit, but I have a wholesale account at several large distributors and I still got to pay more wholesale than at wallmart if I can find it there. So the stores may or may not be gouging you themselfs!
Snow White platinum DVD I bought wall marts for $20, would have cost me $18.95 and buy at least $1,000 minimum total order of anything wholesale. Though I am sure I could have gotten better pricing on a $50,000 order or more.

It's all theft, just that the big companies and goverment are organized crime and we little people are not organized!

And as far as ART, yes it is! And just because the owner says it's not profitable to sell one copy to just me, why should I not be aloughed to have it. Case in point, original Ghost riders in the Sky? Not sure the artist, but was a great song on 78 RPM record! Rehased recently by some big name group, not nearly as good as the real thing. Can I buy the real original though? And that is public domain!
And I want the real thing, not enhanced the way they think it should be or colorized! I want it the way it was made!
As for restoring the decayed public domain movies, is it my fault they did not take care of them properly to begin with?
And whats with the public domain moivies being released with copyright 1998 by some studio? Sorry, but Laraul and Hardy died before 1998, don't think they actually were making movies then!
Big trend in theft by the biggies, release public domain movies with new copy rights????

[arcorob]

Hey Tex, you and I agree on something...LOL Oh Well , miracles happen.
I am glad you posted what you did. It really sums up alot of things.

The biggest is the bogus numbers the companies post as their 'losses via piracy' each year. Come on, Billions ? At an average loss of 5 dollars each they are saying there are 200 million +/- pirated DVD's ? Thats laughable.

And one of the best is who is screaming and what they are doing. Sony is one of the screamers...but who would love to to corner the DVD burner and media market ? Thats right Sony. So Sony the movie company wants copying outlawed but Sony the technology company is raking it in.

I will not advocate illegal processes however, I am of the opinion that even copying rented movies should be allowed. Why ? You have paid for the rental. You will continue renting. The fact you want to have a copy for your collection is irrelevant. You paid, they paid. They lose NO MONEY because other than the rental (which you paid) most people will not run out and buy it anyway unless they intended to in the first place...Uggg.

[pablo180]

piracy is a real issue around the world to american movie industries. most of you cant see it and never will until you move to a place that does not follow american copyright laws. for the past 6 months i have been living in south korea where they dont follow copyright laws. you can buy anything her you want from cds to rolex watches. there are entire markets devoted to just selling pirated vcds and dvdr movies.

That is not strictly true, the Far East has different laws on piracy because of their culture and they see things that are for the public good as common property. But to blame the Far East for this increase or supposed loss of billions of $ is ridiculous. If you went to the same market 20 years ago you would have seen the same stall and stall owners selling films on VHS. This then moved on to VCD, SVCD and now DVD. The formats might have changed but the practice is still the same as it always has been. To suddenly claim that the Far East is suddenly costing the MPA billions is ridiculous. It is a legitimate business over there, so it is not likely to suddenly explode juts cos DVD’s is the new format. This has been going on for decades and has not got any worse so all of a sudden pointing the finger over there and saying that they are responsible is absurd.

As for piracy being a real issue just about every country in the world has the same or similar copyright laws, they are not ‘American copyright laws’ but international ones. Every country tries to protect it’s own intellectual property because it’s in no ones interests to have a free for all. So piracy is not that much of an issue except in countries where they have no laws such as ones that have suffered recent conflict. Bosnia and Kosovo have huge pirate industries as there currently are no laws to stop them, as will Afghanistan and now Iraq. Criminals always find loopholes.

The MPA can’t really justify these high prices as there is no evidence to suggest that copyright theft is anywhere near as bad as they make out or any worse than it always has been. And yes the MPA do set the prices that their members sell to the retailers and it is a lot more than $3 that they sell them, that would have meant a mark-up of 600% by the retailer on each DVD! They also set the RRP Recommended retail price (don’t know whether that is the same in the US) as does every manufacturer.

[corwin102]

I agree with pretty much all these comments, however about the leaded gas thing I have to jump in. Leaded gas contains an additive called tetraethyl lead. This increases the octane number of the gas. As a result, when leaded gas is used less "pure" gasoline can be used to get say an 87 octane rating. Now that the catalyst is not added, the gasoline has to be further refined to get the same 87 octane rating and this of course would lead to an increase in cost. By the way this does not mean that I think the oil companies have a fair priceng practice, as in my opinion they are ripping off the public even more than the entertainment industry.

[pacmania_2001]

Personally I dislike the MPAA from a movie going standpoint but from a business standpoint they are simply doing what's in their best interest.

It's the principle of the invisible hand in free markets. If they can get away with selling a DVD for $20 they will. If no one purchased the DVD at $20 then they would have to reduce the price.

Are you going to go tell your boss that you will work for him for say $40,000 instead of $60,000 because you only $40,000 to live on? No, you try and get as much as possible because it is human nature (for most people anyway) to be greedy and selfish (not always a bad thing).

[pacmania_2001]

Also the members (the movies studios themselves) that make up the MPAA aren't created to service the customer. They are created to maximise profits as much as possible for shareholders whilst keeping the customer reasonably happy.

To shoot down what many of the above posters have said about lowering the price to increase profits this isnt always the case. Any well managed company (which judging by the sucess of the studios, they are) would have done market research into the price elasticity (how much they can raise or lower the price of their product in relation to the increase or decrease in purchases) of their product and seen that lowering the price of their movie wouldn't have had a worthwhile increase in the purchases to carry out such an action.

[dbaker6165]

Blockbuster and hollywood video (just to name a few) are the real criminals! They make people duplicate copyrighted materials by having new releases and those awsome classic movies. Damn them!

[pablo180]

To shoot down what many of the above posters have said about lowering the price to increase profits this isnt always the case. Any well managed company (which judging by the sucess of the studios, they are) would have done market research into the price elasticity (how much they can raise or lower the price of their product in relation to the increase or decrease in purchases) of their product and seen that lowering the price of their movie wouldn't have had a worthwhile increase in the purchases to carry out such an action.

Generally a company would carry out a 'price elasticity' investigation. They would only go for the low end price if there were competition in the market. As they have noone to compete with (all the studios set the same prices) they would then go for the highest price they could get away with. They would then steadily raise this price if they thought that they could get away with it, ie blame piracy, copyright protection, falling theater sales. Because this industry has what is known as low customer buying power, ie the customers have no power because they can't go elsewhere for the product, the movie companies are laughing all the way to the bank. They set the prices collectively, the only real competition is with older films (films that have been out on DVD for a while) but that is just for show.

Unfortunately there is no chance of this changing because they pay a lot in 'political contributions' and lets face noone is going to enter the market and slash prices. If they did they would be bought out in a heartbeat.

[Cyrax9]

*Sigh* I'll admit it, I despise the MPAA, granted I hate the RIAA even more, but then again, they're ripping me off at $20 a CD unless it's a disc on sales bcause they're TRYING to get rid of it since they know the music sucks.

I could go on an RIAA rant but the MPAA is crying wolf trying to keep up with the RIAA on reasons to copy-protect anything and everything. They may be two difernt associations but they both seem to enslave the entertainment industry, namely with DVD.

Let's see DVD-Audio, I love the idea but I already know they're going to encrypt it to the point where only 5 players will be able to handle it that are commerically avilable just to make sure you can't copy it, likewise the MPAA has done the same thing, let's look at DVD-Video.

Regional encoding so you can't play an imported movie, even if you've PAID for it and gotten it legally. I hate regional encoding for the sole fact that it keeps me from importing movies not encoded for All_Region's or Region 1 and that means I miss a lot of ASnime that I would love to import.

Macrovision is another thing I hate. If I want to put my DVD onto VHS to take somewhere, like vacation because I don't want my precious Disc getting damaged I should be able to do so! I also shouldn't have to redo my entire setup so the DVD Player can fit into the system I have because I can't just run the darn thing thorugh the VCR!

Ok that one realy cheeses me, I hae not being able to run a DVD Player thorugha VCR, it'd make life a LOT easier if I could in the smaller rooms and on TVs with only one input, my smaller sets.

Encryption BS woes. If I don't want to haul VHS bricks with me on vacation I should be able to burn a DVD 1:1 by sticking a DVD-R in the burner and a DVD-Video in the DVD-ROM Drive and hitting "BRUN" just like I do with CDs. Unfortunatly I can't, first I have to rip it, tha reencode it usually and then after I'm burned out I can burn the DVD.

Honestly! I just want to back up my favorite videos I don't want to pirate them, I just want a back-up to take on trips with me so my good Discs don't get damaged!

The greedy little snobs at the MPAA have turned DVD into fort knox, it's next to impossible ot copy a DVD even for home use, I belive the VCR ruling siad you could mkae ONE archival copy of a VHS Tape, ut the MPAA is still sour about that and is trying to mkae it impossible for DVD. They're using rgional enocding as another "Line fo defnese" who do they tink they are? Donald Rumsfield? I don't think it maters where I bought the DVD as long as I PAID for it, nor who makes it as long as the owner gets thier royalites. If I want a movie from the UK or Japan I should be able to buy it and play it like I could with VHS Tapes.

The MPAA whines about bootlegger's when most peopl don't even want to bootleg movies, they don't have the time, they just ant a back-up for themselves, if they're worried about Piracy online or off they've managed to do fine with offline piracy for years, and if they're encrypting video so you can't copy it at all why can't they make it so you just can't distribute it online to prevent "Napster-style" piracy?

I honestly could care less about ho makes what as long as I pay for the Disc and get to use it without hassle, I don't care if it was made in the USA or Made in Japan, o Made in the UK as long as it PLAYS. I don't care who gets the money in the end as long as I've paid for it and it's not pirated.

I want to copy a DVD for myself to take to the beach with me since I don't want my disc getting full of Beach "junk" such as sand, but the MPAA is trying to stop even that.

I would honestly like to know how many peopl are really "bootlegging" videos and selling them compared to how many want a back-up copy of somethng they paid for or a region-fre copy as well.

If the MPAA put half as much effort into picking a recordable DVD Standard and real piracy issues like bootelgging rings as they do into people making a back-up Disc, they'd have half their problems slaved already.

MPAA = Making Pain As Always.

These guys have one thing done right, a ratings system that works, but they're at a point where they're starting to grind my nerves when I can't make a back-up of a DVD witout 50 PC programs, or I can't watch an out of region DVD and I think that the RIAA actually as a reason to be angry where as the MPAA is just sounding every false alarm they can to "prevent" piracy that may not even excist in most cases, if piracy is so bad, why aren't people being shown on the news arrested for it the way they are for murder? I mean, I figure if there are so many peopole bootlegging videos out there the MPAA would notice a sales drop or this would be on the news, all I'm seeing is more ways to complicate watching a vdieo I paid for, and while I don't support piracy, I think evertyone is entitle to a back-up of anything they can pay for.

I still wish it was easier to back-up a DVD but I can't change the mistakes of the past, hwever I'm hoping HD-DVDs aren't as annoying to back up, bcaue if they are, I'm probably going to avoid them unelss I see something truly spectacular.

MPAA wants money and noting mre, they could care less how they get it as long as they do, and the reional enocding ona DVD is the same as the stupid Lisence Keys on PC software which can date back to the old wheel or red pape with a magnifying glassd to rpevent piracy, please! Give me a break, I buy movies at $20-$40 a pop usually don't tell m I'm not paying when these DVDs/VHS Tapes used to cost me $25.0 maximum and usually less, unless everyboyd gets a raise pretty soon DVDs will be unaffordable from this.

[Don2050]

Here is a link to the MS investigation Pablo180 made mention of before:

The Darknet and The Future Of Content Distribution

http://msl1.mit.edu/ESD10/docs/darknet5.pdf


It is definately a good read on the subject.

[pacmania_2001]

Generally a company would carry out a 'price elasticity' investigation. They would only go for the low end price if there were competition in the market. As they have noone to compete with (all the studios set the same prices) they would then go for the highest price they could get away with. They would then steadily raise this price if they thought that they could get away with it, ie blame piracy, copyright protection, falling theater sales. Because this industry has what is known as low customer buying power, ie the customers have no power because they can't go elsewhere for the product, the movie companies are laughing all the way to the bank. They set the prices collectively, the only real competition is with older films (films that have been out on DVD for a while) but that is just for show.

Exactly what I was trying to say.

[MOVIEGEEK]

Consumers vs.
M.P.A.A et R.I.A.A

We the consumers hereby find the MPAA and RIAA guilty of:

Racketeering(multiple counts)

Price fixing(multiple counts)

Bribery(multiple counts)

Tampering with private property(multiple counts)

We sentence the defendants to reduce CD's,DVD's and tapes 50% from their retail price and force music and film studios to only sign artists that have talent and are worth listening to and watching.

[j1d10t]

"We sentence the defendants to reduce CD's,DVD's and tapes 50% from their retail price and force music and film studios to only sign artists that have talent and are worth listening to and watching."

MOVIEGEEK, I like the first part, but I'm not sure that last part "...and force music and film studios to only sign artists that have talent and are worth listening to and watching." is an achievable goal for them

[Nitemare]

shocan, I see your point, but once again I respectfully disagree with parts of it. In the process of backing up DVDs, many of us ditch the DD 5.1 because we can't afford a Dolby system any more than we can afford $25 DVDs. Another item on the list of things that we can't afford? Widescreen TVs and/or digital TVs.

Many of the people I talk to can see no real difference from VHS to DVD. Most of us concede there is a quality improvement but we're not blown away by it. It only looks so good on our 25" cable-ready TVs (no S-video for us poor bastards) (I've already been told to buy a new TV ... maybe in 10 more years)

Don't even get me started about the "extras". There's a reason that most of us omit them in our backups. I may not be in a majority but I was quite underwhelmed when I saw my first DVD. Frankly, I expected more after all of those "Have you SEEN it?" ads.

I do agree with you that people are stupid though... So there's SOMETHING!

Peace brothers!
Nitemare

[pablo180]

Generally a company would carry out a 'price elasticity' investigation. They would only go for the low end price if there were competition in the market. As they have noone to compete with (all the studios set the same prices) they would then go for the highest price they could get away with. They would then steadily raise this price if they thought that they could get away with it, ie blame piracy, copyright protection, falling theater sales. Because this industry has what is known as low customer buying power, ie the customers have no power because they can't go elsewhere for the product, the movie companies are laughing all the way to the bank. They set the prices collectively, the only real competition is with older films (films that have been out on DVD for a while) but that is just for show.

Exactly what I was trying to say.

Sorry I must have misunderstood what you meant

[shochan]

piracy is a real issue around the world to american movie industries. most of you cant see it and never will until you move to a place that does not follow american copyright laws. for the past 6 months i have been living in south korea where they dont follow copyright laws. you can buy anything her you want from cds to rolex watches. there are entire markets devoted to just selling pirated vcds and dvdr movies.

That is not strictly true, the Far East has different laws on piracy because of their culture and they see things that are for the public good as common property. But to blame the Far East for this increase or supposed loss of billions of $ is ridiculous. If you went to the same market 20 years ago you would have seen the same stall and stall owners selling films on VHS. This then moved on to VCD, SVCD and now DVD. The formats might have changed but the practice is still the same as it always has been. To suddenly claim that the Far East is suddenly costing the MPA billions is ridiculous. It is a legitimate business over there, so it is not likely to suddenly explode juts cos DVD’s is the new format. This has been going on for decades and has not got any worse so all of a sudden pointing the finger over there and saying that they are responsible is absurd.

As for piracy being a real issue just about every country in the world has the same or similar copyright laws, they are not ‘American copyright laws’ but international ones. Every country tries to protect it’s own intellectual property because it’s in no ones interests to have a free for all. So piracy is not that much of an issue except in countries where they have no laws such as ones that have suffered recent conflict. Bosnia and Kosovo have huge pirate industries as there currently are no laws to stop them, as will Afghanistan and now Iraq. Criminals always find loopholes.

The MPA can’t really justify these high prices as there is no evidence to suggest that copyright theft is anywhere near as bad as they make out or any worse than it always has been. And yes the MPA do set the prices that their members sell to the retailers and it is a lot more than $3 that they sell them, that would have meant a mark-up of 600% by the retailer on each DVD! They also set the RRP Recommended retail price (don’t know whether that is the same in the US) as does every manufacturer.

Just one thing to say here... Dont twist peoples words pablo I never said anything you stated in your post. I never said they were the sole cause and never said that it just started booming because of dvds. i stated facts about what I have seen. nothing more. you on the other hand are a liar. you twist my words around so that you can call me absurd and rediclious. I doubt you even really know what you are talking about.

I think you gather what other people say and repeat it to sound smart or twist it to make other people sound stupid. Were you picked on in school? I bet you were bullied since grade school. I think you need to combat the issues within yourself first before trying to help people here. We all here at dvdrhelp will think of you as you brave the world now coming up with your own shit instead of using what other people say and slightly changing it to make it almost sound origional.



Get a life ass!!

sincerely,
Shochan

your friendly psychiatrist

[markums2k]

Some of you guys are thinking about this stuff entirely too much.

I think most people will stop pirating movies when it is simply more cost effective to buy the real thing, rather than copy it.

So how much does it cost to copy a DVD to a DVD-R? It's probably $6.00 at the absolute most, including rental fees. That's a long way from $19.99. It's really sad how fast that DVD burner pays for itself... know what I mean?

[Gazorgan]

I wax nostalgic for my trips to Hong Kong and Thailand. You can buy anything. I remember SNES cartridges that had 100 games on them.

1/3 of all software in China is pirated. That's a conservative estimate,a nd one of the reasons for the Linux push over there. That equates to more software than is used in the US. It cost Billions if and only if people would actually pay for it. I pay for everything I use, but there's a lot of stuff I wouldn't pay for if I had to, just crappy software.

[thegig]

Just to throw my 2 cents in. I have to agree with most of what is being said in this thread. And to add some coal into the fire read the following article:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A6241-2003Jun17.html

Makes me sad. I had respect for Mr. Hatch before this, and I am not going to get into a political battle, but it seems our representatives (at least in the U.S) are beginning to be sold out at an even faster pace then most realize.

To think that someone is willing to let some other person destroy another's property is unthinkable! Hey I don't like the way way you use that, so I'm going to smash it to bits. Sounds gastapo like. I have to say there is the law of diminishing returns. How hard do you fight before you realize you lost your hands? The MPAA strangle hold is gripping it's own neck if you ask me. I personally refuse to pay the $50 to see a frickin movie! Let alone pay $20 to buy it if I am forbidden to back to stupid thing up in case my kid uses it as a frisbee. Lower the damn prices if you want to stop piracy, but don't put me at the same level as the pirate for protecting my investment. I believe in FAIR USE not piracy. I agree that some people have issues (trouble)backing up stuff and that is a valid argument (in my eyes) for KAZAA. If you own it, you should be able to get your backup any way necessary.

[pablo180]

Shochan,

Thank you for the psych evaluation but I don’t think that it was entirely necessary. I am not a psychologist but there is a condition where sufferers see their own failings in other people, ie people that are arrogant see others as being arrogant etc.

The reason that I bring this up is this,

i stated facts about what I have seen. nothing more. you on the other hand are a liar. you twist my words around so that you can call me absurd and rediclious. I doubt you even really know what you are talking about.

First of all I quoted your whole section; I didn’t edit it, paraphrase it or even refer to it. I was just continuing your point. That is what happens in a discussion, someone raises a point and it is discussed. So where did I lie? How did I twist your words to make you look “rediclious” or even ridiculous which I assume is what you meant? I actually agreed with you about the markets I at no point said they didn’t exist. My point was that they do exist as you said but they are not the reason for the ‘apparent’ loss of revenue that the MPA claim as they have always been there. I didn’t say that you said that but you certainly implied that.

You seem to jump to conclusions about people trying to make you look stupid, absurd and ridiculous. Does that happen to you a lot or something? Were you bullied at school?

I think you gather what other people say and repeat it to sound smart or twist it to make other people sound stupid.

If you check back through the posts there have only been 2 of my 5+ posts that I have used others words or quoted them. All my other posts are about points that I raised myself not others.

You made me look at your original post again in more detail and I did spot several things.

1. it is not he mpaa jacking up prices it is the people selling them to you. do you think they bought them for 19.95 and selling them to you for the same because they like you. no they like you because you are paying 19.95 a movie that they bought for 3 dollars a piece. it is called markup. a common business practice used to make money and pay employees. That is why they cost so damn much.

As I have said in a previous post NO company would mark up something 600%!! Now that is stupid! To pay near minimum wage staff you wouldn’t need to. It is more likely that buy the DVD’s for around $10-$15 dollars each. The movie company also set the RRP (Recommended Retail Price) the seller can lower this, but if they are paying $10-$15 dollars for it they can’t reduce it by much. Because as you said they need to make money and pay staff. Refer to my previous post about the MPA and setting the prices, it's on this page.

2. the mpaa is nothing more than the mafia of the movie industry. they only care and help the people that pay them. They are there to make sure that their clients best intrist is looked after.

I agree with you there.

3. piracy is a real issue around the world to american movie industries. most of you cant see it and never will until you move to a place that does not follow american copyright laws. for the past 6 months i have been living in south korea where they dont follow copyright laws. you can buy anything her you want from cds to rolex watches. there are entire markets devoted to just selling pirated vcds and dvdr movies. some crappy some perfect. there is alot more out in the world causing the mpaa and movie industries to take offensive postures besides what you see. I have seen more movies pass throught these markets in 1 min than any one of you have ever burned in your life....

I was merely pointing out here that people shouldn’t jump to conclusions about the Far East markets or think that they are all just a bunch of pirates. They have copyright laws, just different ones. From your post others might get the impression that this is very widespread around the world, where they don’t follow ‘American Copyright Laws.’ It isn’t because of international copyright laws which most civilised countries have signed up too.

Don’t be so insecure, I didn’t try and make you look ‘rediclious’ I merely took the points you raised and elaborated on them and pointed out the bits that were blatantly wrong. Anything of yours that I took and changed was probably to make it sound right.

Anyway feel free to have another moan if you feel people are trying to make you look stupid and absurd. Perhaps the reason people misunderstand you is your terrible spelling.

[flaninacupboard]

Just thought i'd chuck in a point. i know the DVD specs were standardised a few years ago now, but by that point i'm sure people were using PC's to play their VCD's, and those lucky enough to have a CD burner at that time would have been copying them. whoevers' idea it was to make DVD's 12cm and directly compliant with a forthcoming PC data format (I'm guessing it was a bunch of marketing guys) is a fool. If consumer piracy is their biggest problem, then they shouldn't have made it so ******* easy to do! i mean really, if they had made the discs 14cm you couldn't use them in a PC, a 5.25 bay isn't big enough. how many pirated DAT tapes have i seen? 0. how many pirated minidiscs? 0. laserdiscs? 0. CD's too many, and DVD's not far off. either the technical consultants they used for DVD wanted people to be able to copy discs at home, or weren't up to much. surely they -knew- if software DVD players can access the encrypted data, that software can be bastardized to rip it. that's just common sense.

In my opinion, they would have been much better off not even using a digital format. if they had used a tri laser tri layer 15mhzRGB 16cm disc, we'd all be enjoying picture quality that was superior, and pirated material would look like crap. for starters who has a capture card with 15mz RGB inputs? not a lot of poeple. second, how do you capture that much data? i'm not sure even a top notch RAID system would be up to that much raw data, and even if you could capture it (and we all know there is inherent loss in capture) whatr are you going to do with it? Divx or VHS? neither are "high quality" and those interested in the quality of their material would seek the best option. namely the original discs. in a world where you can make a direct rip of a movie from one disc to another, does it matter if you watch from a pressed disc or a burned disc? no. i really do hope the next big thing after Blu-Ray is analogue.

[Don2050]

flaninacupboard Posted: Jun 18, 2003 15:13


If consumer piracy is their biggest problem, then they shouldn't have made it so ******* easy to do! i mean really, if they had made the discs 14cm you couldn't use them in a PC, a 5.25 bay isn't big enough

My guess is they made them the way they did to cut manufacturing costs...dont have to re outfit plants with too much new tech to produce them, allowing existing machines to make them...just a guess.

[flaninacupboard]

in an industry that makes millions a year i don't think this would be a problem. far more likely so that people pushing the product can say "It's the same size as a CD, but holds lots more! it's like a super CD!"

I've even heard people say "Well it's just a CD with video on it." and that's people selling you the products.

[shochan]

pablo,

first off if you were elaborating on what I said then I am sorry. But you needed to express yourself a little differnt than the way you did. The way you made it sound, is that you were blaming me for saying the things that you responded with.

second DVDs are not sold to companies at 10 to 15 dollars they are in the 3 to 7 dollar price range, I know I looked into selling dvds on ebay and actually got in contact with whole sale companies that were going to sell them to me for that price. depending on if they were new releases 7$ or old releases 3$. Chances are the 3 dollar ones were ones that they couldnt sell and droped the price on. But for 7 dollars the middle man was selling me a dvd for. They had to have bought it for less than that fom the industry. I do not remimber where I got the price list from nor do I really even want to look for it again, so please do not ask me where I got it from. It has been at least a year since I looked into it and do not remimber.

take a look at this http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3333059051&category=2294

When I did sell on ebay I actually started the bid price 2 dollars over what I bought it for. this person obvisouly would not make in profit if he sold the dvd at 9.99 like it starts at. so going with he bought it cheaper than 9.99. lets just drop 1 dollar of his price and say that he wasnt being greedy and wanting to make a profit off of this dvd. that makes it 8.99 . ok now lets say the whole seller he bought it from didnt want to make any profit either and sold the dvd to him for 7.99 a dollar more than he payed for it. so the wholeseller bought it for 6.99 from the originating company for 6.99 . this is still far below the price you were stating. 10-15 I actually think that they are being sold lower from the source than 6.99 and that the whole seller and ebay seller is making more than a dollar profit a piece.
ok now before you respond with this is ebay and that has nothing to do with best buy or circuit city. I know that. This was just an example that I could come up with to prove my point on this matter.

so going with the above I would say that what you are paying for is 400 to 600% markup profit.

[hoyboy]

I work in a small electrical store in australia and we are flat out making 30% on things like dvd's. Big stores may buy a bit differently than us but I don't believe anybody can make 600% profit on anything electrical.