VideoHelp Forum

Our website is made possible by displaying online advertisements to our visitors. Consider supporting us by disable your adblocker or Try ConvertXtoDVD and convert all your movies to DVD. Free trial ! :)
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 6
1 2 3 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 171
Thread
  1. ...or so it seems.

    "The plus and dual-drive (offering +RW/-RW burning capability) formats are the clear winner at this point on the PC side of the market. According to NPD data for April, +R/RW drives controlled 56.4 percent of the market and dual drives 38.5 percent. In comparison -R/RW drives had 3.8 percent with RAM at less than 1 percent for that month."

    http://www.twice.com/index.asp?layout=story&doc_id=120651&display=breakingNews

    Not sure how accurate this is but something to consider.
    Quote Quote  
  2. Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Manhattan, NY
    Search Comp PM
    Reading that article, it quotes ppl who actually work in the companies admitting to the change to plus r.

    Here's another article that seems to join in....it states that for now ppl should buy dual machines.....but that -r seems to be fading away.

    http://www.cdfreaks.com/article/110/2
    Quote Quote  
  3. Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Manhattan, NY
    Search Comp PM
    Although I do think the last line in this article in Time Magazine says it best.

    http://www.time.com/time/techtime/200301/dvd_format.html
    Quote Quote  
  4. Thats wierd I thought - was more compatable with the dvd players and + just burned better but wasnt as compatible. Also, why is there extremly cheap great - media and not +?
    Quote Quote  
  5. Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Manhattan, NY
    Search Comp PM
    The media is cheaper because there are currently more users using -r.

    All the numbers reflect NEW sales of equipment....not existing users.

    Since -r came out a couple of years before +r (although the first few years it was really really expensive)....of course there are more ppl out there currently with it. And more ppl means more ppl to buy the blanks. Which makes them cheaper.

    Remember....at one point blank cd's were 2 or 3 dollars a pop as well and blank cassettes were cheaper...that changed as well.
    Quote Quote  
  6. After reading that article on "TWICE" (never heard of them before), I couldn't help but laugh. The first quote that is bullshit:
    'Pioneer’s decision to move to the dual drive means they’ve pretty much given up on the dash format,' Baker said.
    Hmmm, how about "Pioneer's decision to move to the dual drive means they are committed to improving the market share of their high quality drives." Now, I am not a Pro -R and Anti +R, to each their own. The main reason I have a -R drive is the media cost, plain and simple.

    I offer a theory that the reason +R drives share a bigger market share is that HP and Sony include their burners in some of their PC models. IMHO market share is bullshit anyway. Who do you think has bigger market share, Hyundai or Mercedes? Kia or Ferrari? Now, who makes the better car?

    Anyway, I truly hope that BOTH formats remain and stay strong in the markets, it will only mean quality inexpensive drives and media for everyone, regardless of format.
    Quote Quote  
  7. Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Manhattan, NY
    Search Comp PM
    And the -r comes with all macintosh and previously sold compaqs (before the hp merger). So what's your point then.

    I'm not for or against either. I am simply stating that having the discs cheaper does not mean that it will win (-r even though mac's are prevalent in the music industry...recording studios still use DAT) Also having fixed some technical glitches and being a little higher quality doesn't mean you will win (+r - c'mon...we remember betamax.......it was higher quality than vhs)

    Its a wait and see thing.....as a percentage of computers users...very few of us have dvd burners....we have to wait till a higher percentage of the population gets them to see the outcome.
    Quote Quote  
  8. Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Lancs, England
    Search Comp PM
    The problem here in the uk is that when go down the high street you cant get DVD-R burner for love nor money i was in pc world last week and i saw 4 DVD+RW burners and no - burners,then i'm in Dixons today and again no - burners only the +.Now i would expect most people that want a burner would do their research first,but for say people that like to by direct from the shop then they have no choice it has to be the + burner.Whats worst is why should the avarage person who want to buy from the high street be dictated to like this and not given a choice..I wonder if this is also the case in other countries too....
    Quote Quote  
  9. Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Manhattan, NY
    Search Comp PM
    That just confirms what the article is stating....

    That most machines being made today are either dual (+r/-r) or simply +r.

    It seems that dedicated -r is going the way of the dinosaur....at least when it comes to new machines being built....well...except for mac...and apple always does what they want anyway
    Quote Quote  
  10. Vinney Sem quote:-"After reading that article on "TWICE" (never heard of them before), I couldn't help but laugh. The first quote that is bullshit:"
    'Pioneer’s decision to move to the dual drive means they’ve pretty much given up on the dash format,' Baker said.
    Bullshit? With 3.8% of PC drive market and 1.3 % of the CE market they should be giving up!!

    KDH
    Quote Quote  
  11. Originally Posted by coyote
    very few of us have dvd burners.....
    Exactly...if the figures in the article are accurate and the trend continues I don't see how minus could survive. Pioneer has essentially thrown in the towel with ther A06 by supporting both formats. Can you say "if you can't beat 'em join 'em". The main reason dual format burners are currenlty doing well is due to consumer concerns over the format. However, once a dominant format emerges(looks like its happening) I can see dual format burners gradually declining in favor of the dominant format. Either case, I doubt we will see any more minus only burners.
    Quote Quote  
  12. Originally Posted by coyote
    And the -r comes with all macintosh and previously sold compaqs (before the hp merger). So what's your point then.
    My point exactly. Who do you think has a bigger market share, HP or Apple? When you can add in a DVD burner of your own manufacture for minimal price increase and count on your "market share" to reap profit, what is going to sell more?

    Anyway I reiterate I think using market share to predict product success is bullshit. Pioneer "pioneered" DVD burning, they aren't giving up on their child format. As long as there is a demand for the drives and media, they'll be made.
    Quote Quote  
  13. Ummm, I don't read any of this as +R "winning" -- only that people are interested in buying multi-format drives.

    I bought the Sony myself for this very reason -- but every single disk of the hundreds I've bought so far has been -R (the *one* +R I tried wouldn't read on my standalones).

    Now if you quoted articles where it was showing -R media was being outsold by an appreciable factor then I would lend more credance to this. Otherwise, all I see is that Sony hit a nerve when they made a drive that does it all, and Pioneer is following suit. Hardly the end of -R.
    "Like a knife, he cuts through life, like every day's his last" -- Mr. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang
    Quote Quote  
  14. Since Microsoft decided to support +, - is going down. Mark my words, lets give it a year or two.

    I work at a computer store, its happening. We're selling more and more +media and writers (Altough Sony's drive is popular)..the - is dying slowly.
    Quote Quote  
  15. For the record, Microsoft is supported BOTH formats (I assume you're referring to the built in DVDR support coming in the OS).

    It's a little troublesome that you work in a computer store but don't know this -- however, I do understand that's more common than not (I once worked in a sporting goods store, but never won the NBA tournament. LOL).
    "Like a knife, he cuts through life, like every day's his last" -- Mr. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang
    Quote Quote  
  16. Who cares, the players can't recognize the difference after its burned anyway. So if +R does win its not like -R people have to throw all their already burned discs out the window.
    Quote Quote  
  17. Hmm I have a dual format drive however of the 400 discs I have burned 380 have been DVD-R.
    Quote Quote  
  18. Ok here's my take:

    Due to the fact that _R is cheap and +R is expensive, and despite higher quality, -R will probably be the preferred choice for PC/Mac Users.

    How many poeple own Kia'
    s adn how many own Ferrai's? The Kia is cheaper adn difintly not as good as the ferrari, but it's afordable and people drive them much more than they do ferrari's.

    DVD-R is cheaper and easily avaialble, DVD+R is better quality but not as cheap yet and people are iffy abut both formats.

    As far as one format "Dying" there is NO EXCUSE whatsoever for that to occur due to the fact that their are dul-foirmat Writers and Dual-Format Players.

    If I was told I had to put all of my DVD-R's on DVD+R to use on future equipment I'd go insane,, likewis eif I was using DVD+R adn was told to move to DVD-R I'd be angry as well.

    As long as you can produce Dual-Laser formats I say both should be used, VHS and Betamax were NOT the same size and as good as Betamax was it lost the format wars, DVD-R will probablky "win" if anyone wins and my persoanl take is eventually everything will eb Dual-Format so that either way there isn't a compatibility problem on new equipment, imagine having a DVD-R recorder and your relatiuves ahve a DVD+R Player, they go to play your disc, but alas, they an't becasue there player doens't support it. Inexcuseable IMO. I say Dual_Format is the way to "win" this war.
    Quote Quote  
  19. Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    United States
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by Cyrax9
    As far as one format "Dying" there is NO EXCUSE whatsoever for that to occur due to the fact that their are dul-foirmat Writers and Dual-Format Players.
    Dual-format doesn't come for free. The problem with dual-format writers, as I understand it, is that they have to pay royalties to both the DVD Forum and the DVD+RW Alliance. If this is true, then as prices of writers start to plummet this could become a serious issue unless the royalties fall off as well. Plus the media manufacturers have to split their output between + and - media which means less economy of scale. So IMHO there are economic incentives to have a single mainstream format, whether it be + or -. However if users continue to demand the "losing" format, then there will also be economic incentives to continue to produce it, but only if the demand is there to justify the added expense, IMHO.
    Quote Quote  
  20. I don't think you can factor in the media makers -- if they can produce both formats, then their cost of doing so will remain the same, no matter the scale. After all, they've been producing both 640 and 700mb CDR for years and we've seen absolutely zero indication that will end anytime soon. For that matter, the media companies that produce CDR nearly always produce DVD as well -- there seems to be little pressure to specialize one way or the other.

    As for dual writers being more expensive -- that's a good point in terms of royalties. But I don't think computer owners are going to drive this one, so to speak. Where the added royalties might be the difference will be to the HUGE market of VCR owners out there who will determine what will win.

    If DVD+R standalone recorders start selling for $150-$200 and the public eats them up, yep I can for sure see the DVD+R format becoming incredibly dominant. Computers (and in particular, DVDR burning) are no where near as popular as VCRs, and if we start seeing 100s of millions of units of +R standalones move, that will be the true test (truly that's what killed Beta, as most of us in the industry liked it far better -- but the public rules :>)
    "Like a knife, he cuts through life, like every day's his last" -- Mr. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang
    Quote Quote  
  21. you are trying to say that Pioneer and other -R drive haveless than 5% ?
    Quote Quote  
  22. Originally Posted by spaceman
    The problem here in the uk is that when go down the high street you cant get DVD-R burner for love nor money i was in pc world last week and i saw 4 DVD+RW burners and no - burners
    That says to me, that consumers love the -R format (they have bought all the available burners) and are staying away from +R (as is shown by the sheer mass of unsold +burners).

    No?
    Quote Quote  
  23. Problem with that argument is that PCWorld/Dixons(UK) do NOT stock -RW burners at all -just NEC,Mirror and Freecom +RW burners at present.They have never stocked Pioneer drives.

    If consumers love -RW drives they would not have a 3.8% market share(in USA) would they?

    KDH
    Quote Quote  
  24. mkelley, obviously I wasn't talking about the build in OS support. They must support both formats to prevent lawsuits.

    But since Microsoft joined the ally (http://www.dvdrw.com/microsoft.html), its in their best interest to sell more + writers and media.
    Quote Quote  
  25. Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    United States
    Search Comp PM
    Although I really don't care much about the "format wars", I do feel that retailers (Best Buy, Circuit City, etc...) and also PC makers (Dell, HP, etc...) only give you the option of +R format, hence the sales figures from NPD shows the dominance of +R. Dell and HP are probably the two largest PC manufactures right now and with every computer they sell....it's with a +R DVD burner. If you add up all the computers that they sell a year (thousands and thousands, maybe millions), we will most likely see the +R format more and more.

    Now I hear a lot of people on here saying that -R is better because of cheaper media, but you people have to realize that if the +R format continues to dominate and more and more people will be demanding more +R media.................+R media will become cheaper and -R will be "scarce" and more expensive.

    And as stated in an earlier post, dual format burners cost companies much more money to produce compared to single format companies. I'm sure most DVD burner manufacturers would rather support just one format in order to cut costs. They are just waiting on which format is more dominant and it will happen. I really doubt that both formats will coexist. Consumers like simplicity and the "average joe" computer user doesn't want to second guess on what format is the best. If the +R format is INCLUDED in the new computers and retailers carry much more +R format drives, then the "average joe" comsumer will assume that +R is better. And as we all know.............it's the "average joe" that will decide which format will win the war.
    Quote Quote  
  26. Very true.........
    but I don't see -R media becoming scarce.There will be too many RAM/-R CE recorders out there.

    -RW media on the other hand may become rather rare!?

    KDH
    Quote Quote  
  27. If I had the money I'd have got a dual format drive. As it was I couldn't afford one, so I got the Pioneer 105. As far as I'm concerned cost is all, my DVD player will play anything I throw at it so why pay more than I have to? The running costs for a - drive are lower, so like many people thats what I chose. I really don't understand the 3.8% figure or whatever that was quoted in the article, round here the Pioneer 105 is pretty much the only burner to get if you can't afford the Sony.

    Maybe I'll change my mind when I get my next burner, again I'll go with costs. At the moment I'm paying 80p per 4x blank, I'm yet to see + disks fall this low. The advantages of + are irrelevant for what I do, and as all my - disks work in every player I've tested there's no reason to change at present.

    For what its worth I was burning CDs back when blanks were £5.50 each. I know how much even a small cost difference in media can equate to over a few months. Why pay more?
    Quote Quote  
  28. Member The village idiot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Adrift among the STUPID
    Search Comp PM
    But just remember..... BlueRay will kill them all






    Sorry just had to throw that in.




    If panasonic would lower the price of its stand alone recorders, then -R/-RAM would become more popular. To me it looks like many of the +R/RW manufacturers are offering the retailer a higher profit, that's why you see them in the "big" stores. Not becuase of consumer demand, just higher profit margins. The -R crowd needs to offer the same discounts to get the same market exposure.
    Hope is the trap the world sets for you every night when you go to sleep and the only reason you have to get up in the morning is the hope that this day, things will get better... But they never do, do they?
    Quote Quote  
  29. Like the DVD killed the CD.
    Then the DVDR will be 25 cents so that`s why we`re gonna use it.


    Village Idiot, do the BlueRay recorders play DVD-ROM?
    Quote Quote  
  30. Member WishMaker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Florida, USA
    Search Comp PM
    I own a Pioneer 104 and have yet to burn anything due to outside circumstances, but I don't plan on buying a + burner UNLESS the price for the blanks go down WAY under the -r discs.

    I bought 3 epson 740 printers because the generic ink is $3.00 (black) and $4.00 (color) cartridges. I own a better quality, newer HP Printer, but have yet to print out more than 10 pages on it. The reason... HP Cartridges $30.00 a piece black or color.

    So, there it is for right now...

    BUT, my friend wanted to get a -r burner and we shot over to Best Buy to get one (a week ago). HA! They only had +r burners in the store. I was told we could order one off of Bestbuy.com, but my friend declined saying "they must not be very good if they won't even sell them in Best Buy anymore."

    IMO, people will not be given a choice in the near future. It's taking longer for the DVD standalones, but with vhs/dvd comination standalones and some DVD titles going for $5.99 to get people to used to the DVD player it won't be too long. All that's needed now is the price to come down on the standalone DVD recorder's. They've got 'em as low as $399.00!

    Ever feel like these big company's are pulling you around by the ring in your nose? I do.
    Never discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow.

    Plato
    Quote Quote  



Similar Threads