Building a PC just for TMPGenc Plus

[pharries]

I have a lot of NTSC AVI files to encode regularly to best quality PAL MPEG.
TMPG is however so SLOOOOOOW
So I plan on building a PC just to do this bit of the work. Capture etc will be done on another PC
I will have a Firewire drive that it will read VIs from and write the MPEGs to.
Otherwise what iss the best solution in terms of dollars spent?
My questions:-
1)What kind of Processor? Pentium Athalon, Xeon / Anything else? What would give me best value for speed. Any dual processor motherboards?
2)Best operating system in terms of speed and minimal crashes with TMPG?
How much RAM?
Thanks

[jessieqwert]

One thing that needs clarification is if time is an issue?
If your just building another system to free up your main one while it converts you could build a very cheap system. However if you need this PC to run TMPGENC faster for whatever reason you will be building a higher end system.

[edplayer]

you should also state how much you are willing to spend.

[pharries]

You have it
My current system is fine what what I need apart from encoding.
I have 6 hours of tape per week to encode (starting with Betacam \ DVCPRO) high quality. I need very high quality output.
My current PC (Twin Pentium 600) 1 GB Ram 300 GB disk space would take 3 weeks to do a weeks encoding at least!
Twin Pentium 2.5 would be the kind of comparative processing power that I am looking for but have no idea of the merits of different processors and what is available in Twin processor motherboards.

Obviouly I would like a faster PC for general use but I NEED a faster PC for encoding.
I have a good spare case, a spare 60GB drive, spare Firewire card etc. All I need is a Motherboard processor (s) and RAM
P.S. I do like Dual processor units.

[pharries]

As allways as little as possible.
Bottom line this is semi pro stuff and I have to get it done. If i can justify it I will have to find the cash ( say max of around US $1000 for motherboard and memory although less would be Good)

[ZippyP.]

I don't think that TMPGEnc is optimized for dual processors so that is likely a waste. Just get the fastest processsor you can afford with the fastest ram, 512 MB minimum, 1 GB better. AMD cpu's are better, speed vs. cost.

[smfan26]

If you want to save some money, I would go dual amd athlon xp's. Look on pricewatch.com for good deals, not only would it be a lot cheaper than dual P4s, it would probably be pretty close in speed.For RAM , DDR is probably the best, just make sure the mobo you buy supports it. 512MB is probably what I would buy, more than that and it's probably a waste. Windows XP is probably the best OS to use because it now supports SMP (streaming multiple processors, i think) and will take advantage of your 2 cpus better. Just my $0.02

[jtommyj]

I don't think that TMPGEnc is optimized for dual processors .

There is an option under Environmental Settings, CPU, to enable multi threading and it makes a big difference. I have 2 systems, one with a single AMD xp 2400 overclocked to 2.4 GHz (12x200FSB) and one Tyan dual MP system with 2x1.6 GHz xp 1900+. The dual system renders a DVD in about 75% of the time as the single processor, everything else being equal. I have tested this.

[ZippyP.]

I don't think that TMPGEnc is optimized for dual processors .

There is an option under Environmental Settings, CPU, to enable multi threading and it makes a big difference. I have 2 systems, one with a single AMD xp 2400 overclocked to 2.4 GHz (12x200FSB) and one Tyan dual MP system with 2x1.6 GHz xp 1900+. The dual system renders a DVD in about 75% of the time as the single processor, everything else being equal. I have tested this.

I stand corrected!

[jtommyj]

Windows XP is probably the best OS to use because it now supports SMP (streaming multiple processors, i think) and will take advantage of your 2 cpus better. Just my $0.02

Just for clarification, only XP Pro has support for SMP, not the home edition.

[MrKGB]

afaik tmpgenc can use second cpu for noise filters only.
imo filters for vdub and avisynth are much better and faster, but they will never use the second cpu.
so i think you don't really need 2 cpus.
the best value now is athlon 2600 333FSB for $100. get a kt333 mobo for 60$ and you are set.
you can easily run tmgenc with 256 MB if you are not frameserving - filtering. 512 MB is more than enough.

[jtommyj]

I can tell you for a fact that I don't know what it uses the different processors for, but my 2x1.6 GHz setup blazes by my single 2.4 GHz in encoding time. Of course you don't NEED 2 processors ,just makes it a little faster.

[Str8Rippin]

Athlon XP 2600+ w/ 333fsb OEM ($96.00 free s/h) The best vaule/preformace.

2 sticks of 512mb 333mhz aka pc2700 - If your comfortable with tweaking memory timings than go with Corsair XMS, If not than the cheapest name brand (samsung, kingston($69X2 free s/h), micron($69X2 free s/h) will do fine.

The fastest AMD platform is the Nforce2, nothing else is even close. I'd go with the Epox 8RDA+($85 free s/h). Great board whether you want to overclock or not.

Windows XP - Pro($143 $4s/h) gives you more control of the OS, but if you not going to do all that much tweaking XP home($93 $4s/h)is fine.

FYI - All these prices are from newegg.com IMO the best place to get any computer gear. Make sure you read the maual to see which two slots you need to install the memory to enable dual chanel mode.

[Piccoro]

If you want dual cpu, go w/AMD MP cpus and either a TYAN or MSI motherboard w/DDR 266mhz pc2100 ECC ram.

INTEL go for 2.5/2.66/3.06ghz w/HT or even the 3ghz w/800 FSB. Not sure which motherboard.
Dual channel sure would help.
the 2.66ghz seemed to be the price point at near 200$
next step up 2.8ghz about 275$
I came across motherboards ranging from 100-190$
A good INTEL motherboard seems to be more $$ than the motherboards for AMD w/the nforce2 chipset.

AMD. People ask about the differences in cache and fsb with encoding. Getting more mhz is a much better performance booster than looking at increasing fsb or cache. Thinking about AMD 2600? There are 3 differnt types of 2600s...and they each have different MHZ. The highest clocked 2600 runs w/266FSB and would be the best choice out of the 2600s for encoding. The next runs at 333 FSB with a slightly slower cpu clock and the last runs with even lower clock, 333 FSB and extra cpu cache(these just came out).

AMD 3200+ has the performance but it costs.
AMD 2800+ (barton) about 175$ (next higher is a big step in price..this is the buy point if you are on a budget)
AMD 2600+ about 100$ great deal, friend of mine just bought one.

Nforce2 motherboards for AMD are great (dual channel). Run you anywhere from 80-130$ for a Nforce2 motherboard. Recommend asus nforce2 (deluxe). Great stability/features. Other brands are great too.

Make sure you get ram that is the same speed as your FSB as its best to run it in sync rather than getting the highest speed ram (have 333FSB? get ddr 333 pc2700 rather than ddr 400).
I would get no less than 512mb. And if you have a dual channel memory on your motherboard get 2 sticks of ram.
(want a gig of ram? buy 2 x 512mb sticks)

Good brand of DDR 333 512mb <100$
DDR 400 512mb maybe about 100$
(depends on what timings they are set to. Faster timed ram will be more $$)

If your not going to go all out and get a 3ghz intel w/800fsb and motherboard and if you want to save some money then go with AMD.
The performance isnt that much different between INTEL and AMD w/tmpgenc. People get different results for times between the two. So if your buying midrange, save some money go w/amd.

The most I would spend would be under 900$ for INTEL 3ghz, 2 x 512mb ddr 400mhz ram and a dualchannel motherboard.

The least I would spend would be going with a motherboard with the nforce2 chipset / amd 2600 / 2 X 512mb ddr (1 gb)
Would be under 400$
prices are from www.newegg.com / www.buyxg.com

[Wood]

Hello,

Just a little question..!!
Are your files in your HD?
If not the best is; buy a capture card that make the service in real time uinstead to buy a new PC.

Wood

[Piccoro]

What about a 400$ pc along with the added hardware for realtime?
OR
$208 MSI K7D Master-L AMD762 LAN DDR (AMD Dual MP)
2 x $219 AMD Athlon MP 2600+ (Retail Box-w-Fan)
$258 1 GB DDR REG ECC Corsair
$904

Maybe you want a lower cost option.
2 x $149 AMD Athlon MP 2200+ (Retail Box-w-Fan)
$764

If you're wanting a cheaper solution with TMPGEnc as your primary program, I would stick with single amd processor/motherboard/ddr ram rather than a dual configuration. If you do other things that may take advantage of twin cpus, go for it.

For your OS, no matter what cpu/dual or single configuration...I would go with WinXP pro or Win2k. Formated with NTFS and both support multiple processors.

[BoogieMan]

TMPG doesnt utilize dual cpus?? CRap, I am running Iwill mpx2 with dual amd 2.4 mp's. 512 mg DDR samsung 2700 mem. With 2 cpu multithreading enabled in TMPG it flies, take it to 1 and watch the hours add on to estimated time. Most movies take about 1 1/2 to 2 hrs to do. Of course depend on quality and settings will adjust that time.

[TBoneit]

One thing nobody mentioned that will speed up encodes!

Fast Hard drives, 7200 RPM Ultra 100 minimum...

second thing source on one physical drive and output files on a second physical drive. two hard drives not two partitions in other words.

Another thing I found was the CCE Basic is faster than TMPGEnc and worth the money as a cheap speed boost working with DVD resolutions.
Even with my 2.66 GHz.

If you go with AMD CPUs get a real good power supply, they seem to have problems long term with cheap stuff as I have seen at work.

AMD be sure to get a case with several Case fans and preferred a Temp monitor that has a probe that mounts on the CPU Heat sink. We sell cases like that for not a lot of money so I'm sure they can be found easily enough.

Since the Hard drive will be working all the time get a case where there is a case fan blowing over it. A Filter would be nice too. I Like Lian Li cases but they are pricey!

And of course since you are running it steadily, I suggest a UPS. I bought a APC 500VA for under $40 recently at Staples for example.

Motherboard I suggest ASUS for quality but not the bargain line they recently came out with.

On the Other hand if you are only going to be encoding with it, built inb sound, video, ethernet, firewire, usb2.0 will be fine.

Good Luck
Roger

[Piccoro]

From what I hear the filters in TMPGEnc can be handled by the second processor but thats all ive heard. I didnt mean to say it "didnt utilize them" at all. heh sry
Thought it would be better for the money to stick w/single cpus if TMPGEnc was his only goal.

AMD draws a lot of DIY people.
All the problems w/AMD is that people dont know exactly what they are buying and get a bad psu or an unreliable part that they are putting in their PC and causes it to fail. Or maybe install it wrong and force it to fit. Or use arctic thermal compound not realising that its conductive since its made from silver and only to dab the cpu core not the bridges. Its about a computer not being installed profesionally and not understanding what should be used, what parts are quality, whats crap..."consumer attempted upgrades/installs" is sometimes what repair people refer to it as.
I have a 420watt enermax psu, dual fan. Antec is good too.

For a case, I would suggest a case that can handle 2 80mm fans in the front and 2 80mm fans in teh rear. I have seen some cases with a 40mm in the back and 1 80 mm in the front...NOT ENOUGH AIR FLOW(yes it was a new case).

Some people are against puting harddrives behind of case fans while others are for it. In the long run its better to put it behind a case fan but it will raise your case/cpu temps...beware. If it isnt behind a case fan, your case/cpu temp would be a bit lower while your harddrive temp would be a lot higher. Seagate seems to have cooler running harddrives also more quiet.

Along with 2 harddrives...make sure you put them on different cables/controllers. If its on the same controller, the data will only use half the bandwidth(half speed) going to the motherboard...find it has to go to the other harddrive..and use the other half of the bandwidth from that controller.
While if they are on differnt cables/controllers it can use the full bandwidth on the primary controller and the full bandwidth going to the secondary controller.

UPS...great idea. There are two differnt kinds. One is on all the time and when your power goes out it has always been using from the battery so it will continue to do so and runs great. The other kind only comes one when it detects a power out and those arnt so great. Lot of times your pc will get hard shutdown(BAD) because it wasnt in time. Ever bumped your AC power cord out of your powersupply and your pc shuts off and restarts? yeah like that, cause its a temporary loss of power.

[DaHan]

Go with amd barton xp2500+ for $91 with epox 8rda+. You can easily OC it to xp3200+.

[jtommyj]

Just out of curiousity, how many people saying go with a single processor system have a newer dual processor system to compare to ?
I have an NForce2 Abit NF7-S single processor system @ 2.4 GHZ 12x200 FSB and it does not encode nearly as fast as my Tyan Dual 1.6 GHZ machine.

If money is an object, get an NForce board. If you want speed, get a dual processor system. Same settings, the dual processor is almost twice as fast.

[flaninacupboard]

on the PC front, i would reccomend some kind of AMD system, in line with what everyone else says
dual CPU seems to be the way to go with encoding, given the maths it has to do, i.e. encode a frame, check frame for artifacts, re-encode the frame.

however, i think i would just go spend close to the $1000 on the best real time MPEG-2 capture board i could afford. these units are great, and a lot will aloow you to open up an .AVI file and use it's onboard encoder to output the MPEG realtime to your hard drive. this is obviosuly handy if you're transferring from digital tape!

[Metaluna]

afaik tmpgenc can use second cpu for noise filters only.
imo filters for vdub and avisynth are much better and faster, but they will never use the second cpu.
so i think you don't really need 2 cpus.
the best value now is athlon 2600 333FSB for $100. get a kt333 mobo for 60$ and you are set.
you can easily run tmgenc with 256 MB if you are not frameserving - filtering. 512 MB is more than enough.

Yeah but if you're using AVISynth or Vdub to filter and then frameserve into TMPGEnc it should easily be able to use two CPU's (one for the filtering thread and one for the encode). I bet this would really speed things up, but I've never tried it. BTW, I've found that, even on single-CPU systems, using the multi-thread option in TMPGEnc speeds things up a little (maybe 5-10%).

I've got an Athlon XP 1700+ (Tbred B) overclocked to 1.83MHz/333FSB (in other words, the same core and FSB speeds as a Barton 2500+, but smaller cache). On an Nforce 2 motherboard (Epox 8RDA+) with dual-channel PC2700 enabled, it slightly outruns my other system, a P4 2.53GHz Northwood with single channel PC2700. For TMPGEnc I'd have to go with AMD for price performance.

[jtommyj]

Yeah but if you're using AVISynth or Vdub to filter and then frameserve into TMPGEnc it should easily be able to use two CPU's (one for the filtering thread and one for the encode). I bet this would really speed things up, but I've never tried it.

This is exactly how I convert, using VDub to frameserve.

[spiderman2k1]

You should also post at TMPG forum's the author reply to the post alot. I would go Intel dual mother board if you have the money. If not AMD is fine if you need to save money but I would think Intel would be the faster

[lethaldoser]

or if you have

a. an aldi foods
b.$499

you can get

c: P4 2.66Ghz Processor
256 333 DDR Ram(low part)
120G HD
128M GeForce 4
16x DVD drive
40x CD burner
and more.

i know its weird to buy a computer at a grocery store but it was a good deal that i couldnt pass up. i used to have p3 800 and well, it was well worth the upgrade.

http://www.aldifoods.com/

[ultimind]

I use an Intel Xeon 2.0Ghz w/ 512mb RDRAM and a Canopus MVR-1000 MPEG2 realtime encoder...I've captured everything from BetaSP to DVCPRO50 and it all comes out looking fantastic... (although most of my work is DVCAM) the only downside to it is that it only accepts composite or SVIDEO input. The SVIDEO looks perfect though concidering that 90% of the playback is through SVideo back into a TV. I once did a comparison test between the MVR-1000 capturing a DVCAM tape, and i did the same segment in TMPEGENC and the ONLY place i saw a noticeable difference in quality was playing the DVD back on a broadcast-grade Sony monitor via component cables. Even on my Mitsubishi 65" HDTV playing back through a progressive scan DVD player via component cables, I saw no noticeable difference.

The nice thing about the MVR1000 is that I can raise the bitrate to 15mbps for some archival work, although it can only be backed up on a data disk and can't be played in a dvd player. It supports realtime VBR which in most cases is amazing in quality..it can really help you to squeeze all the quality possible out of the source material.


For only $650, the MVR-1000 is a great deal if you arn't worried about the S-Video only input. I have actually seen a difference when using cheaply made SVideo cables compared to what I use all the time (which are Silver Serpant S-Video cables from bettercables.com, or you could use the new THX certified S-Video cables from Monster)

My advice...get the MVR-1000, a good set of S-Video and RCA audio cables, and capture away!

[jtommyj]

@ ultimind

Can you use your mpeg-2 real time encoder to encode files from your hard disk or do they have to come in to the card via a digicam or DV cam? I would love a real time encoder to do conversion but don't know if it is possible.

[drewson99]

hey ultimind -

my experience with the THX strain of monster's digital audio cables is that they suck compared to the higher guage ones rated by the bandwidth (although the THX ones are way cheaper costwise)

is this not true for the s-video cables of the same brand?

[MOVIEGEEK]

@pharries,
I would get a single P4 3.0+Ghz with hyper-threading,PC3500(800Mhz)RAM and a Intel mobo,total price=$650USD.All the info. on TMPGEnc that I have read says the it is optimized for Intel CPU's.