CCE USERS, PLEASE OFFER ADVICE!!

[F-ING HOSTILE]

Hi- Recently I switched from TMPGEnc to CCE. I am extremely happy with the speed and quality of the video produced by CCE, but would like to find the most appropriate settings for the type of encoding I perform. Last week I posted a question regarding CCE, Maestro, and Chapter points, in which tons of helpful suggestions were given on not only my problem, but CCE settings in general. I feel the advise of those experienced CCE users is invaluable.

I am using Cinema Craft Encoder SP v 2.50.01.00.
My settings are based on both the "Robshot" (aka Getting The Best Out Of CCE) and "Roba" methods, as well as the "CCE FAQ"(Doom 9) and the original "User's Guide" that came with the program. I have been backing up the "Main Movie" only (all NTSC Region1), and use Three pass VBR to produce the absolute largest M2V that can be combined with my AC3 audio and chapter points. Since I was told by more than one person that the template settings suggested in these guides may not be the best, I am asking that some of you veteran CCE users give these settings a look, and offer any advise you may have.

My Template is as follows:
Video File: ES, MPEG 2, Multipass VBR (3 pass)
Video Settings: The following are checked: Add sequence end code, Progressive frames, Linear quantizer scale, Zig-zag scanning order, Luminance level=0 to 255, Intra DC
precision=Auto,Timecode=00: 00: 00: 00
GOP Settings: M=3, N/M=4, GOP header=1, SEQ header=1
Quality Settings: Image quality priority=25, Anti-noise filter disabled

I think this is pretty close to what I need, but would just like a little outside input. Also, If all seems fine, please let me know either way!
Thanks in advance!!!

[wayned16]

If your doing DVD to DVDR, Then setting for every movie can be different. eg one movie might have Progressive frames, and filed top first while others maybe interlanced and bottom feild first.

I recommend u use DVD2DVDR, you can find it on my site. My site is in my sig. also on the right hand side of my site u will find a link to MR bass's site, where u will find a guide how to use this program. It automates every step. From frameserving with dvd2avi to CCE and Authoring* (*for pal movies only). NTSC films you will have to author ur self.

give it ago. u wont be disapointed.

And if u wont to learn more there are over 1200 replys to this thread

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=124578&highlight=dvd2dvdr

[Haku]

As wayned16 said each movie can be different , as some are interlaced and others progressive etc....

But i set it to 5 Pass vbr, and i set Image quality priority to 10.Anti noise filter off. Time code all 0, and the gop settings i leave as they are.

[wayned16]

you only need to change the gop sequence to M=3 N/M=4 when you are importing into some authoring packages. Cant remember of by heart now which ones need it. Maybe someone else can tell u.

[F-ING HOSTILE]

If your doing DVD to DVDR, Then setting for every movie can be different. eg one movie might have Progressive frames, and filed top first while others maybe interlanced and bottom feild first.

With the exception of one Region 4 PAL DVD I ripped, every single movie I have done has been Progressive.

you only need to change the gop sequence to M=3 N/M=4 when you are importing into some authoring packages. Cant remember of by heart now which ones need it. Maybe someone else can tell u.

I am using DVD Maestro for authoring, and both the guides I mentioned earlier are geared towards this (not directly, they are referenced by the guides). That is why I chose to go with these GOP sequence settings.

But i set it to 5 Pass vbr, and i set Image quality priority to 10.Anti noise filter off. Time code all 0, and the gop settings i leave as they are.

I read several places that anything beyond 3 pass VBR is just a waste of time, with no noticable difference in quality. Have you found this to be the case, and how much longer (generally) does 5 pass take?

I started off setting the "image quality priority" to 5 (as suggested by the "Robshot" guide), and was extremely happy with the quality of the M2V. Several people told me that 25 would be a more appropriate setting, and that 5 was way too low. What are the drawbacks to having a lower setting?

Thanks for all the responses guys!!

[defense]

I read several places that anything beyond 3 pass VBR is just a waste of time, with no noticable difference in quality. Have you found this to be the case, and how much longer (generally) does 5 pass take?

I started off setting the "image quality priority" to 5 (as suggested by the "Robshot" guide), and was extremely happy with the quality of the M2V. Several people told me that 25 would be a more appropriate setting, and that 5 was way too low. What are the drawbacks to having a lower setting?

Thanks for all the responses guys!!

The truth is that i've done many tests and can honestly say that anything more then 2 PASSES is a waste of time. I could easily take anyone's money here or anywhere else by proving it. Although I haven't tested every damn setup in the world..i've tested enough. My method is 1 pass VBR which is more like a 2 pass because of the .VAF file initially created....and for movies with heavy action...I use 2 pass VBR....going to 3 or more really is a waste of time..but if it makes someone feel happy...then do 20 passes...

take ANY movie which needs reencoding.....run it through 2 passes, then try 5 passes and tell me where you see a difference...try it on a 17' T.V or a 60' HDTV....you won't see any difference.....but again, if it makes you happy...do as many passes as you like. Run your computer to hell running the crap outta CCE....as long as it makes you happy...that's all that counts..right?

[F-ING HOSTILE]

Exactly what I thought!

What's your opinion on the "image quality priority setting"?
The first time I encoded with CCE, I had it set to 5 (per the guide), and thought the video was excellent. Since then I have had it around 25, and am not sure what to think.

Thanks!

[defense]

well...It all depends on how you are approaching the entire process. I know you menioned in your first post all of your preferred "settings"..but what software are you using for this? Are you doing each step individually and not using any of these programs? It seems as though you are and if that is the case, all I can say is, your test results will probably tell more then anything you can read here.


I will say one thing...if you are doing NTSC films which apparently you are....then your GOP settings should be: GOP Settings: M=3, N/M=5,...I noticed you set N/M to 4.....I believe the only time you would set the N/M to 4 would be if you are using Scenarist to author....being that you use Maestro...I think it should be set at 5...if it isn't...you could have sync issues....and maybe that's why you had other issues with chapters not importing in Maestro properly.

Although, there are a few reasons why chapters would be off in Maestro...but a simple trick with chapter Xtractor can usually fix most of those problems.

Anyway, the bottom line to all this is if you are happy with your results...then don't change anything....but you should look into the GOP settings a little more....and then test different settings and heavily scrutanize your output..and see what looks better to your eye.

[F-ING HOSTILE]

I will say one thing...if you are doing NTSC films which apparently you are....then your GOP settings should be: GOP Settings: M=3, N/M=5,...I noticed you set N/M to 4.....I believe the only time you would set the N/M to 4 would be if you are using Scenarist to author....being that you use Maestro...I think it should be set at 5...if it isn't...you could have sync issues....and maybe that's why you had other issues with chapters not importing in Maestro properly.

Really dumb question: What is the N/M setting referring to?
What am I changing when I alter this number?

Like I said, I trust the advise of users like you over the outdated guides I have been following, but I have to wonder why a lot of the settings recommended by these methods have been so off. I understand that the programs used before and after encoding will dictate some of these settings, but there seems to be a large gray area there, and the CCE owners manual really doesn’t seem specific enough to help.

Thanks again

[disturbed1]

M=distance between P frames. N/M = total distance between I frames.

GOP sequence is recomended to be 1/2 FPS, with a max distance of 18 for NTSC, 15 for PAL.

So if you have M=3 and N/M=4 the total distance is 12 (1/2 23.976fps, 1/2 25fps) M=3 and N/M=5 would be 15 (1/2 29.97fps).

The structure of the GOP is IBBPBBPBBPBB.

If you have a film input (23.976) and use a GOP setting of M=3,N/M=5, you may violate the DVD GOP distance spec after running pulldown. Maestro may give a warning on the compile, but not always, Scenarist will abort the input.

TMPG had this flaw in it's GOP setting when using 23.976fps with pulldown on playback, and setting max GOP distance higher than 12, TMPG didn't account for the pulldown flags. But it's been fixed since then.

[F-ING HOSTILE]

Great explanation

So then would N/M=4 be the appropriate setting for authoring an M2V that is to be imported into Maestro?

Thanks for the help!!

[defense]

I'll wait for "Disturbed" to comment "hostile"...he knows more about the specifics....but like I said..it all depends on your methods. Another factor I believe would be whether you choose to reencode by choosing to "force film" ...which will encode the film at 23.97 fps...and then you can add the pulldown flags at the end of your profect. I prefer this method as I personally believe it yields the highest possible quality.

There are some users who really know their stuff and they will tell you that they never run "force film" and just reencode at 29.97 fps with an extra pass or two in CCE. So to answer your question...it depends on how you choose to go about starting and ending your project...i'm sure Disturbed will specify in greater detail..but I believe the reason he says "Maestro" may give a warning...is because of "technical specs"..I personally have never seen this warning in countless compiles..and I have yet to venture into Scenarist, as the proggy I use hasn't gotten it down to a science in unison currently..but It should soon.

[F-ING HOSTILE]

Thanks for all the help, I'll just have to toy with it a bit

[RoopeT]

I think luminance level should be 16-235. If your source is film based, you should encode it as 23,97 fps afted "forced film" in DVD2Avi.

There was a lot of testing with image quality priority values for SVCD and 17 was the most recommended value, but again this might depend on your source. I usually use 20, I think 5 is too low and 25 might be too high.

[F-ING HOSTILE]

I think luminance level should be 16-235. If your source is film based, you should encode it as 23,97 fps afted "forced film" in DVD2Avi.

There was a lot of testing with image quality priority values for SVCD and 17 was the most recommended value, but again this might depend on your source. I usually use 20, I think 5 is too low and 25 might be too high.

I started with a Luminance Level of 16-235, but several people told me that contrary to what the guides recommend, the best setting is 0-255.

As for the Image quality priority, I have been using 20, and all seems well (although I didn't see anything off with 5).

Thanks for the advise!

[disturbed1]

I think luminance level should be 16-235

This is only for RGB color space conversion. Since Avisynth serves in either YUY2 or YV12 it's mute.