ntsc to pal

[donny-j]

hi gang

whats the best and fastest way to convert xvid,avi, divx etc to pal without getting the jerky playback, i've had my dvd writer for 3 weeks now and i've been trying to solve this problem and i can't, i've looked for, and tried the advice on this site, and i've come to the conclusion that i must be really thick or sumfink, so i would appreciate it if you could please help me.

many thanks in advance

D-J

[Vejita-sama]

I've converted PAL to NTSC, but never NTSC to PAL. I'll assume that the process is 'about the same.' Do a forum search for 'avisynth & assumefps.'

What I normally do (again PAL -> NTSC) is write an avisynth script file to convert the 25fps source to 23.976fps then telecide the encoded MPEG to 29.97fps.

I would assume that the reverse would also work. Not sure if that helps or not

[donny-j]

thanks for the speedy reply i will give that a try, one small point tho, how do you telecide.
what encoder do you use.

[Vejita-sama]

You shouldn't have to. Teleciding is the process of converted a 23.976fps film source to 29.97fps interlaced (to play displayed on a NTSC TV).

Again everything I read is about PAL -> NTSC (here's a really good discussion on the subject):

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=160433

I 'assume' that the reverse steps should work

[DivXExpert]

its not telecide. its telecine. And only NTSC users have to do this, if they have a films source.

Going from NTSC to PAL.
If your source is film, and has been telecined. Use avisynth to do an inverse telecine (IVTC). Then speed up the Audio with Besweet.

If your source is truely interlaced, then slow down the video with avisynth. and slow down the audio with besweet.

BTW telecide is an AVISynth filter, that removes telecined frames, then you delete the frames that are repeated with decimate.

[donny-j]

ok, i must admit to getting a bit confused here, so i'd appreciate it if you could give me a step by step runthrough on how to convert to following to pal, without the jerky playback:- Codec: DivX 5 Bitrate: 725 Kbit/s Width: 544 Height: 304 Fps: 23.976 Audio Info: Codec: MPEG Layer 3 BitRate: 132 Kbit/s (Rounded BitRate) Channels: 2 (Stereo) Sample Rate: 48,000 Hz Miscellaneous Size (MB): 697 MB Size (kB): 713,599 KB Size (real): 730,724,988 Length: 110 minutes, 57 seconds.

cheers

D-J

[Fozzee]

Well I know I'm gonna get shot down for not doing it the right way.

I just use the PAL VCD template in TMPGEnc I never get jerky playback.
Maybe I'm just lucky.

Fozzee

[todgerme]

so0o0o0o0o0o0o0oo

23.976 ntsc film to pal!

step 1. demux the audio from the video using virtualdub if its an ogm file use virtualdubmod.
step 2. use framerate changer to change the framerate of avi from 23.976 to 25.00
step 3. modify the audio in besweet so that the audio is adjusted to play @25fps instead of 23.976!
step 4. take tmpgenc, video source your avi, audio source your demuxed transcoded audio from besweet
step 5. don't use nero or easy cd creator. dvds created in those don't work in dvd players, use gear dvd pro or ifo edit!

any problems l or anything not so clear, let me know!

todgerme

[DJRumpy]

Don't make it harder than it is. Use AVISynth (www.avisynth.org). Open Notepad (or any text editor), and create the following script.

The command looks like so:

AVISource("C:\folder\yourmovie.avi")
AssumeFPS(23.976,True)
BicubicResize(720,576)

Save it with any filename, but with a .AVS extension. If you put this .AVS file in the same directory as your AVI, then the path in the first command (C:\folder\yourmovie.avi") is optional like so: AVISource("yourmovie.avi"). You will of course have to correct it to point to your AVI's filename. The BicubicResize command assumes your going to DVD (you didn't specify). You would of course change those resize values if your going to something else, like SVCD. Your movie will have an aspect ratio of 1.85:1 (width/height), which is fullscreen for 16:9 DVD, with no letterboxing.

This script will sync your audio to the new framerate. Xesdeeni has run tests with BeSweet, and determined that it uses the same speedup/slowdown process that is used internally by AVISynth, meaning you do not have to do the BeSweet step seperately.

You .AVS file can be dropped onto any encoder like CCE, TMPGenc, or Main Concept, to encode it to MPEG.

[Karma 23]

...Your movie will have an aspect ratio of 1.85:1 (width/height), which is fullscreen for 16:9 DVD, with no letterboxing....

Are you saying that when converting widescreen PAL to NTSC, the end result is fullscreen NTSC? If so, is there a way to keep it widescreen after converting from PAL to NTSC?

Karma 23

[DJRumpy]

You misunderstand. For DVD video, movies with a 1.85 aspect ratio are Fullscreen when played on a widescreen television. For this reason, when converted to DVD, the source video is resized to fullscreen (no letterboxing). Movies with a 2.35:1 aspect ratio have a tiny letterbox (120 pixels of letterbox).

When properly encoded and authored, the movie will automatically be letterboxed when played back on a 4:3 television.

[pijetro]

DJRumpy.. 2questions:

AVISource("C:\folder\yourmovie.avi")
AssumeFPS(23.976,True)
BicubicResize(720,576)

1) Does the value True mean the audio?
2) AssumeFSS(23.976,True) tells me that you're slowing down for NTSC Film, so shouldn't it be BicubicResize(720,480)??

The original post was NTSC to Pal, so wouldn't the second line be AssumeFPS(25.0)?

[DJRumpy]

1) Does the value True mean the audio?

Yes. It mean 'Sync Audio' (True/False)

2) AssumeFSS(23.976,True) tells me that you're slowing down for NTSC Film, so shouldn't it be BicubicResize(720,480)??

Just set the resize value to whatever format your converting to. 720,480 would give you NTSC DVD resolution.

The original post was NTSC to Pal, so wouldn't the second line be AssumeFPS(25.0)?

Yes. My bad. It would be AssumeFPS(25,True)
The BicubicResize would be BicubicResize(720,576) for PAL DVD.

AVISource("C:\folder\yourmovie.avi")
AssumeFPS(25,True)
BicubicResize(720,576)

[yf2001usa]

You can also use virtualdub to convert 23,976 to 25. I find that it works better then avifrate. It is easy to keep the audio sinc

[Karma 23]

Wow, you really seem to know your stuff, DJRumpy. Thanks for your reply.

Karma 23

[donny-j]

Many thanks for your input guys, i'm now producing excellent quality dvd's in about four hours from start to finish.

D-J

[DJRumpy]

Makes the whole thing worthwhile doesn't it...

[Fozzee]

Don't make it harder than it is. Use AVISynth (www.avisynth.org). Open Notepad (or any text editor), and create the following script.

The command looks like so:

AVISource("C:\folder\yourmovie.avi")
AssumeFPS(23.976,True)
BicubicResize(720,576)

Save it with any filename, but with a .AVS extension. If you put this .AVS file in the same directory as your AVI, then the path in the first command (C:\folder\yourmovie.avi") is optional like so: AVISource("yourmovie.avi"). You will of course have to correct it to point to your AVI's filename. The BicubicResize command assumes your going to DVD (you didn't specify). You would of course change those resize values if your going to something else, like SVCD. Your movie will have an aspect ratio of 1.85:1 (width/height), which is fullscreen for 16:9 DVD, with no letterboxing.

This script will sync your audio to the new framerate. Xesdeeni has run tests with BeSweet, and determined that it uses the same speedup/slowdown process that is used internally by AVISynth, meaning you do not have to do the BeSweet step seperately.

You .AVS file can be dropped onto any encoder like CCE, TMPGenc, or Main Concept, to encode it to MPEG.

Ok,
I've never used Avisynth before......
I installed Avisynth 2.5 (is this all I have to do??)
Then created the avs file.
Then loaded the avs file into TMPGenc.

The bit that confused me is the resize line.
It takes the letterboxing away.
I don't understand what you achieve by this??
Please explain this to me in more detail .
Is this line necessary??
Can you just use the first two lines and leave the resize to the program??
I have access to TMPGenc/MC and Procoder.

Cheers

Fozzee

[Fozzee]

Hmmmmmmmmmmm

Right tried the process above leaving out the resize line.
I encoded using TMPGenc.

The resulting mpeg2 plays fine on the PC.
BUT it doesn't play well on one of the 3 standalones in the house.
It freezes then resumes every so often.

I don't believe it's a media issue as my previous 100 DVDs with the same DVD-R play fine on the DVD player. I burned a 2nd copy of the same film and it did exactly the same. In fact in the same places.
But on the other 2 standalones it plays perfect!!??

Is this an issue to do with the encoding process??
Or is the DVD player on the way out?? It's only a cheap Pacific 1002 but it's usually fine.

I'm going to encode another movie the same way and let u know. BTW they are Datasafe G04 Ritek (purple dye). I haven't had a coaster up to now. And I'm not sure this is a media issue.

Cheers

Fozzee

[DJRumpy]

Sorry Fozzee, I typically don't check for posts on the weekend.

The sample script:

AVISource("C:\folder\yourmovie.avi")
AssumeFPS(23.976,True)
BicubicResize(720,480)

would give you an NTSC DVD video. It doesn't take away any of the letterboxing. It simply resizes whatever you have to fullscreen D1. This is fine if your movie is 1.77:1 or 1.85:1 (close enough for government work), but if your movie is 2.35:1, you need to make some adjustments to the script. You should also be aware that TMPGenc also comes with it's own resize/crop methods, which may be interfering in what your trying to accomplish.

If you want to allow AVISynth to do the resizing/croping/etc, then set the output resolution in TMPGenc to the same value (Video Tab | size setting)you specify in your script (720x480 in the above example). Assuming your mpeg is widescreen (non-4:3), then set your aspect ratio for 16:9 in TMPGenc. Set the Video Arrange Method (Advanced Tab | Video Arrange Method ) to 'Full Screen'.

Can you tell me what aspect ratio your movie has? If your not sure, just tell me what resolution the actual image area uses (without letterboxing).

[Fozzee]

Hi DJ

I'm doing 2:35 to 1.
And it's a NTSC 23.97 Avi to PAL DVD conversion.

This is what I put in my script. I was confused about the resize bit.
So I left it out.

AVISource("C:\folder\yourmovie.avi")
AssumeFPS(25.00,True)

The resulting DVD played fine on my PC and 2 DVD standalones.
But on one player it had freezes. The aspect ratio was right as I'd altered it in TMPGenc.
I am still experimenting now.
I'll let u know.
Any more ideas would be helpful as I have no idea how Avisynth works.

Cheers

Fozzee

[DJRumpy]

Your DVD players compatability is probably the only thing that is saving you, allowing the MPEG you have to play at all. You have an output mpeg that uses an NTSC frame size (720x480), but with a PAL framerate (25 fps).

You have to resize your output to a standard PAL resolution since you've converted the framerate to a standard PAL framerate.

If your source AVI has no letterboxing, then your script would look like this (anything after the pound sign '#' is optional):

AVISource("C:\folder\yourmovie.avi")
AssumeFPS(25,True) # converts your output to 25fps
BicubicResize(720,432) # resizes to 720x432
AddBorders(0,72,0,72) # Adds letterboxing - 72 top & 72 bottom

This should give you a widescreen 16:9 PAL compatible output.

If your source AVI already has the letterboxing, your script would look like this:

AVISource("C:\folder\yourmovie.avi")
AssumeFPS(25,True)
BicubicResize(720,576)

[Fozzee]

Hi
Just tried the same thing with Mainconcept 1.4 worked fine.
Gonna re-encode the TMPGEnc Audio to 224 and see if it solves the problem.

Fozzee

[Fozzee]

Your DVD players compatability is probably the only thing that is saving you, allowing the MPEG you have to play at all. You have an output mpeg that uses an NTSC frame size (720x480), but with a PAL framerate (25 fps).

You have to resize your output to a standard PAL resolution since you've converted the framerate to a standard PAL framerate.

I'm lost again. I used the TMPGEnc PAL template so why would I now have a 720 x 480 video????
And the DVD with the playback issues has the most compatibilty compared to the other 2 so that argument doesn't work.

Fozzee

[Fozzee]

Trying your script now DJ thanks for the help so far.

Cheers

Fozzee

[DJRumpy]

Sorry Fozze. I didn't know you were using a template in TMPGenc. I have no idea why you might be getting compatability problems. The output MPEG is all TMPGenc, which typically does a good job. Unless you forced it to a setting the was not compatible, it would have to be your player, or your media. I'm assuming, since your using a template, and that you didn't fudge any of the standard settings?

What was that bit you mentioned regarding resampling the audio? What properties does your output mpeg have in regards to bitrate, audio bitrate, frame size, etc. Use AVICodec in the TOOLS section to examine your output MPEG, and post what it's properties are here.

[Fozzee]

The DVD I produced with TMPGenc the first time had 384 audio. So I tried it again with 224 audio same thing. Here's the properties of my 2nd attempt which had the same freezing.

"File : 278 MB (273 MB), duration: 0:07:19, type: MPG, 1 audio stream(s), quality: 90 %
Video : 261 MB, 5000 Kbps, 25.0 fps, 720*576 (16:9), MPG2 = MPEG 2 (SVCD/DVD), Supported
Audio : 11.73 MB, 224 Kbps, 48000 Hz, 2 channels, 0x51 = Mpeg-1 audio Layer 2 [0xc0], Supported"

I can use Mainconcept instead of TMPGenc but I like some of the settings like source range etc.
Mainconcept does not have these issues. and before using Avisynth neither did using TMPGenc.
But by using your script my resulting DVDs have the proper aspect ratio.
Only bind is not being able to use it with my version of Procoder.

Any ideas.

Fozzee

[Fozzee]

Is this most likely to be an audio issue??
If I extracted the audio to wav first what would change in the script??

Anything??

The original divx is vbr mp3.

Fozzee

[DJRumpy]

There's no way to tell. Unless your MPEG is not compliant (yours looks fine), then the only other things that will cause freezes are the media, or the dvd player. Since the disc plays fine on two other standalones, I'd think that the mpeg itself is fine. You could always try burning it at a slower speed (if it's > 1X) to see if that helps. Do these freezes cause a code on your player, or does the audio or video simply stutter?

Have you tried your old method (without AVISynth) to see if it's something in your process? The reason I ask, is due to the fact that, regardless of what you use to input the video to TMPGenc (AVISynth, VirtualDub, or even teh raw AVI), the output is all done in whatever format you set in TMPGenc. Short story - it shouldn't matter what your putting in, as TMPGenc will always put out only what you tell it to.

[Fozzee]

If I extracted the audio to wav first what would change in the script??
Anything??
Fozzee

Would the script change??

And could you just confirm the aspect ratio thing. Are you saying if the A:R is 1.77 or 1.85 to 1 you would use no borders and select 16:9 in tmpgenc??

Cheers

Fozzee