Does burning speed matter

[Bullworth]

Does it really matter if you burn VCDs at 1X all the way up to 12X. I burned a VCD last night at 1 speed, took forever, but it appeared less blocky that my other VCDs burned at 12X. I still have to run a few more test because I have also been using different settings for encoding to MPEG. Any opinions?

[DiViNeLeFT]

through my experience, i dont think it makes a difference... and one point i like to bring up when people debate this... why buy a 12x burner if your only gunna burn cds at 1x???

[Jeff Muller]

I have found that it definitely matters... especially for SVCDs.

I guess you will get most of the benefit of high-speed burning for data CDs.

[Bardock]

I have found no it shouldn't matter but for someone like me who is on a Pentium 90mhz it does, its not my source or my cdr or my dvd, its simply my cpu i can burn a 12x10x32 and if i burn at 12x i get a okay vcds but its blocky at parts and blank at some becuase of my slow cpu not being able to produce a current flow/buffer, so i use burn at 8x and change the settings with CDR-Win and i get a near perfect copy, so it all depends on who well ur computer can keep a stead flow(full buffer) for you burner.

[Vejita-sama]

I've only got an 8x Plextor (SCSI) and I burn everything at 8x no problems. Plan to upgrade soon to a Plextor 16x (IDE) and the people I know that have them also burn everything at 16x no problems.

[DiViNeLeFT]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-09-21 12:16:37, Vejita-sama wrote:
I've only got an 8x Plextor (SCSI) and I burn everything at 8x no problems. Plan to upgrade soon to a Plextor 16x (IDE) and the people I know that have them also burn everything at 16x no problems.
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

i think if there is a difference... people with good burners using good media wont see a difference. im sure plextor is a brand you wont have a problem... ive never seen a difference with my creative 121032 which is a plextor oem anyway.

[mike416]

I've been making vcd's for a long time and I always burn at 4X because I found that older standalone player (certain brands) dont't play well if I burn more that 4X. Some player even only accepted the one that burned at 2X.
I've tested & tested. So for the sake of compatibility,I only burn at 4X. As for quality,I can't tell the difference

[speedy]

Burning speed has ZERO effect on the quality of the resulting video. As far as the burner is concerned it simply wants a contant stream of data. If the buffer empties, you probably will end up with a coaster. Otherwise it makes no difference to the resulting quality of the finished CD.

How fast a CD is burned in no way effects the encoding ALREADY part of the file you're burning. Its a done deal. The burner don't and can't change it.

The burning process does not change a thing no more than writing a file does on one extreme to a floppy which will take about a minute to write 1.2 MB all the way up to a firewire drive writing data at up to 400 MB a minute.

[Bullworth]

I don't burn at 1X all the time, I was just wondering about VCDs. Especially since I read in another post that some DVD players won't read VCDs burned at high speed.

[Anonymous65]

Correct, the burning speed has no effect on the data. However, if a DVD player has problems reading a CD-R, a slower burn seems to make better "groves" in the CD-R media. The question is, does a 20x burner make as clean "dots and dashes" on the CD-R as if you're burning on 1x speeds? This will depend on the media, how fast it is capable of changing the reflective state of the dye, and the quality of the laser to burn a clean and focused pit on the CD-R. I would sure like to get some technical information and a microscopic view of the CD-R under different burn speeds. There is also a saying that if you're going to play back the CD-R at high speed, then burn at high speed. This is obviously not the case for VCD or even SVCD's.

[Nerk01]

I just did a burn at 20x last night and my apex 500-w had no problems playing it back. I always use the best blank CDs I can find. I use the Acer 201040A burner (only $93 at http://www.jazztechnology.com)

[Erwin]

I would do a price search. I went to Jazztechnology and I thought, "man, they have some pretty good prices", but their shipping is too expensive in my oppinion. $16.95 to ship a CDRewriter (something's not right here )





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Erwin on 2001-09-22 01:25:24 ]</font>

[PIRATE_4_FUN]

One thing to remember folks, when you get a faster burner the more important it becomes to get the right type of cd-r's to burn. The difference in the 4x and 12x cd-r's is that the higher speed the cd=r the easier it is to burn them, thus, the whole point of having different speed cd-r's!

[nfl2k2]

I got a creative labs 8-4-32 and burn at 8x. I have had problems with 8x but 4x works fine for svcds

[septor]

I have been burning on 12x for one year
vcds etc etc
never had a problem with my old plex 12x10x32
Just bought the 24x model
and have burnt about 15 vcds on 24x and 5 svcds on 24x and all have played flawlessly
I am using tdk silver tops certified 24x media

[vitualis]

skittelsen is completely correct.

Burn speed per se does not have an effect on quality -- but this is using the assumption that the drive reading the media can read it well/normally.

If your DVD player is designed to read CD-R media, and your burner/media can handle high burn speeds, there is no reason not to. Quality should not be an issue.

However, if you DVD player is just barely reading your CD-R media, burn speed can make a difference. However, this again shouldn't be an issue if you get a DVD player that can read CD-R media properly.

speedy, don't be so quick to dismiss other people's experience. It should be obvious to anyone who has been in the forum for a while, that burn speed does have an effect on quality in some situations.

Regards.

_________________
Michael Tam

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: vitualis on 2001-09-23 20:17:56 ]</font>

[HillJack]

All your DVD player does is read the files on the CD - it will either read it or it won't... It's not going to decode the mpg based on how well it reads the CD. It either decodes it or it doesnt. If you notice a difference at different speeds, you've probably been pre-exposed to the notion and are MAKING yourself SEE a difference that really isn't there, because you read that someone else says speed does make a difference, when it doesnt (no offense intended.. I do it too

[Chris X]

Yes, and No.

To considerations. Is the "CDR Media" High Quality? Can it handle, the burning speed set by the software?

A: If the CD-R(W) media is HIGH QUALITY, and can handle the selected speed, the burning speed doesnt matter.

The Burning speed doesn't matter because data is just 1's and 0's, nothing more, its all DIGITAL.

However, If your trying 2 copy a disk, that is copy protected, The burning speed does matter, because the EFM encoder in the CD Burner can get overfloaded and distorted, This happens with Macrovisions SafeDisk 2 copy protection. with these disks, u need a burner that is capable of doing a true 1:1 of a cd that uses this protection. Usually Philips, Acer, and Plextor, And Lighton CD burners have a strong enough efm encoder to handle the task, but make more accurate the backup, if burnet at a speed of 4x. Other cd burners are crap and dont have this capability.

The only other thing I can think of that would cause a problem is a crappy cd burner that is defective, or Bad Quality media.

Sony and Plextor, will only make a cd burner that can burn at 16x speeds if it can "relably" burn a cd at 16x just as well as 4x.

Think People Think

_________________
Computers

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Chris X on 2002-01-01 02:03:04 ]</font>

[wildcatfan]

Oh man.....how many times has this been brought up...well the answer is that the speed MAY or MAY NOT effect the quality. It doesn't actually effect the quality of the data but it does effect the quality of the overall disc in that it may not be as easy to read (due to the writer and/or the quality of the laser mechanism reading it). Especially in a standalone it may not be able to pick some of the bits properly (there are always errors on cd's usually the ecc on the cd can correct it, but vcd's use less ecc than do data cd's and sometimes errors get through) when errors happen in mpeg stream you get ...... you guessed it macroblock or little green and pink squares....so there is the answere people.

Michael

[Goldenaxe4000]

hello .
it does metter .... why ? why ????
i tell you why ....
as long as more speed the media surface will be life less .
take a test
burn with cigarette lighter a cd-r .
and see how much it take to melt .
and that u realise that is the same thing inside your BURNER
so . what now ? do on X1 ? X2 ?
do onX4 with nero that will be fine and only a brand-name CD .

[waldok]

My 2 cents here :

I would say speed affects 'quality of burning'. I mean, laser burns tiny holes in the disc, so my guess would be the longer the laser beam stays on one hole (low speed), the more perfect this hole will be (hey, I'm trying to make it simple here, no laugh ) and the easier it will be for a player to read it.

When burning high speed (unless you have highest quality CD-R), one can imagine that "physical burning" is not that perfect, since beam doesn't stay as long on each 'hole'...
But that's only my guess, don't flame me for this please )

Back to the guy who said it's only digital, 1 and 0 and so on, I would compare this speed issue with a slightly scratched Audio cd issue. On some players it will play fine, on others it won't. Still, it's only 1 and 0 too...So it's more a physical problem than a digital one probably.

These were my 2 cents (maybe 3 after all)

Burn baby burn...

Waldok

[vitualis]

This reminds of a "digital" post a long time ago...

What you "digital" zealots have to understand is that digital data is a CONCEPT -- not some sort of altered reality. Digital data like any other data must EXIST ON A PHYSICAL MEDIUM and in the case of CD-R/W, it is represented by variations in an organic dye layer.

Digital data can be degraded/lost just like analogue data as it is stored on a physical medium. How well its integrity is maintained relies not only on the physical storage system itself, but also the reading mechanism (relevant in this case).

In the case of reading of CD-R/W on a DVD player not designed for CD-R/W media, consider the following analogy:

DVD player not designed for CD-R/W media: short-sighted follow without his glasses on
Pressed CD: a page with dark laser printed text
CD-R: same page but the text is written in pencil

Now, when this short-sighted guy attempts to read the nice laser printed page of text, he can make it out quite easily, despite it looking fuzzy.

However, when he tries to read the same page in pencil, he starts to have difficulty. He can make out some of the text, but not quite others. To clearly read some words, he may have to stop and concentrate for a bit. If you force him to read the text faster, he struggles to get anything useful out of it at all.

Now, you give him a second page written in pencil, except that this time, the writer wrote it much faster and a little bit messier. Now, the short-sighted guy has a even harder task making anything out.

Interpretation
Obviously, the data on both pieces of paper written in pencil is perfect. There is no loss of data due to writing errors. This is analogous to the CD-R burnt at low and high speed. However, the problem is that of a reading one. There is no good having perfect data if your DVD player cannot read it well/properly because it wasn't designed to do so (short sighted guy without glasses).

However, many DVD players can still (if barely) make out the data on the CD-R. However, if you use higher (non standard) bitrates, they may choke on them quickly. Or, if the data really is too hard to read, then there could be skips, A/V sync problems, obvious MPEG stream errors, etc.

As with the analogy of slow and quick writing, burning a CD-R at higher speed can exacerbate this underlying problem. Burning CD-Rs at high speed does not cause this problem, but can unmask an underlying physical reading problem.

Now, it a DVD player that is designed to read CD-R/W media -- dual lasers or dual optics (e.g., the short sighted fellow now putting on his glasses), then the DVD player will have no problems reading CD-R written at any speed (just as the fellow will now have no problems reading the sheets of paper written in pencil).

Regards.

[vanillabox]

in my experiance, I have found that burning to disk at lower speeds will give you better quality on when dealing with Audio CDs and Video CDs. this is unless you have created a disk image (*.nrg for nero) before burning to the actual disk.

[SingSing]

I agreed.
I used have occassional problem even burning at 2x.
My old CDR drive work perfectly once I upgrade to 600MHz Pentium II, ever since.

[JimJohnD]

I've found that 8X is as fast as I want to burn VCDs. At this speed they don't get the "Squeeky-Blocks" during playback on my DVD and portable players. When I burn at any higher speeds I know I can cound on at least three breakups over a full VCD. BTW: playing on a computer seems OK at the higher burn speeds.

[speedy]

Opinions are just that; opinions. The one thing I've noticed in these forums is frequent pontificating from the same small group of posters. Take for example this thread. The fact is burning speed does NOT matter assuming all other factors are equal.

If you have a decent DVD set top player and a capable burner and use good media, it doesn't matter if you burn at 2X or 20X. To suggest otherwise is a disservice to those that may be inexperienced and take such implied statements as factual causing them to use slower burn speeds then is actually necessary.

I find it amusing there are always some that seem to go out of their way to attempt to correct other people's opinions or start off their post with some self serving crap like "such and such is correct" implying they have some duty to pass judgement on who to listen to or not because they directly or indirectly suggest superior knowledge. Hey, I don't claim to know everything, for sure I don't. Give me facts to back up your opinions, then they'll maybe carry more weight then they do now.

Now I have no objection to someone saying if you have X CD burner and you use Y media and try to play it on Z player you may have problems A, B and C. Fine, that's useful and verifable information. In my opinion everything else is pretentious and showboating which as you should be able to figure out by now I detest because it only serves to stroke a few egos which isn't the reason I and most visit these forums. Of course I understand that most newsgroups and forums have at least a couple wannabe "experts" in them. I'm quickly discovering who they are here.

[waldok]

Hi

Come on, Speedy, there are no 'wannabe' experts round here. Nobody wants to teach lessons (at least I don't .
People are just exchanging points of view and it's true that this subject has always been hot in newsgroups
Moreover, there are some people around here who know a lot about the whole Video thing, they usually don't show off and are very helpful to newbies like me.
As far as I'm concerned, I have noticed blocky videocds when burnt at 8x, and correct ones when burnt at 2x (same blank CD-Rs used). This is enough for me to be convinced that speed matters, but I sure don't intend to influence people about it.
Discussions like this are meant to share thoughts, everybody is grown up enough to make his own mind afterwards

Let's go burning...whatever the speed

Waldok.

[speedy]

I would suggest http://www.cdrfaq.org/ for those wishing more factual as opposed to opioniated views on specifc burning issues. For example section 5 (hardware) section 6 (software and section 7 (media) all fairly comprehensive.

So I'm not misundersdtood, I'm not suggesting anyone shouldn't share their opinion, of course that's what forums are for. I object to some trying to IMPOSE their opinion without benefit of backing it up with factual evidence.

[vitualis]

speedy, you are the only one trying to impose your own opinions here whenever someone disagrees with what you have said. The facts you are trying to impress us with is not particularly relevant to the situation and isn't even in dispute.

Previously you stated that burning speed has "ZERO" effect on quality when "all other things are equal". The problem is that you aren't explaining this VERY IMPORTANT caveat. I equally turn the argument back to you that you are giving the false impression that burn speed has nothing to do with poor playback quality at all. There are a number of factors that can cause poor playback quality, and poor CD-R media support in the DVD player is one of them. This particular aspect IS affected by burn speed.

The specific case of creating VCDs on CD-R media and then playing them in some DVD players (e.g., waldok's post above) is a common problem and the observation that lowered burn speeds can help has been mentioned dozens of times by different posters. Try to keep an open mind.

Regards.

_________________
Michael Tam

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: vitualis on 2001-09-24 16:12:36 ]</font>

[speedy]

I have an open mind. I have little tolerance when someone begins a post with things like "...What you "digital" zealots have to understand..." and "speedy, don't be so quick to dismiss other people's experience." when what you offer is opinion not supported with any fact.

The argument is yours to disprove since it is YOU that are claiming burning speed does have a bearing, the burden of proof is totally yours to demonstrate. I have three different burners each operating at different speeds, I use all kinds of media and 2 different set top DVD players. I've burned hundreds of CD's, not once has the burn speed ever been a factor in play quality.

What you seem to be suggesting is burn speed is a common factor in CD's not playing correctly, at least for some models. The burden is for you to back up your claim with specifics that can be duplicated, giving the CD burners make, model, media brand and DVD players used. I don't see any of that in this thread. I see a couple persons saying they had a problem without giving specifics which could mean anything.

I'm not trying to be hard to get along with. If there are problems that can be traced to specific burners, media or players THAT CAN BE DUPLICATED by disinterested third parties, tell us. So far you haven't come close to doing anything but saying there are problems without identifying them specifically which helps no one.