1/2-D1 (352x480) 16:9 aspect ratio question.

I just read that DVDs encoded at 352x480(576) won't be played right in some standalones if they are encoded as 16:9. Is this true? because my Mustek V560 plays them without a problem.

Have you got any problem with 16:9 encoded 1/2-D1-files?

Thanks

[DJRumpy]

That is a standard DVD resolution. It supports both 4:3, and 16:9. You heard wrong. Encode away. It will play fine on any player, as long as you stay within specifications.

Don't confuse this with problems some players have playing SVCD/CVD resolutions on CD-R media.

Ahh!
The thread I read probobly was about CVD (= 1/2-D1 on CD-R). And standalones can't add the black borders on a 16:9 CVD (neither on SVCD's by the way).
But how come SpruceUP doesn't allow 16:9 on 1/2-D1?

Thanks for answering my question DJRumpy.

[FulciLives]

SUBJECT: SpruceUP and 16x9

My understanding is that SpruceUP does not support 16x9
It will flag everything 4:3 even if you used the 16x9 NTSC template in TMPGEnc.

I just did that recently (converted a PAL 16X9 DVD to NTSC 16X9) and what I did was let SpruceUP write me the VIDEO_TS folder with files (I forget what they call that instead of writing an image) and then I used IFOEdit (which I've never used before so I hope I did it correctly) to change the IFO information to read 16x9

I tested the DVD-R I made (I did an image with ImgTools classic and then burned with DVD Decrypter) and it did play widescreen (proper aspect ratio) on my 4:3 TV so I guess it worked correctly but I don't have a widescreen TV to test it on but it definately did resize properly on my 4:3 TV so that was good

I left the menus at 4:3 but changed the movie to 16x9

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[DJRumpy]

I use SpruceUp on a daily basis. I only encode in 16:9. I also have a 16:9 television. They encode perfectly. It does not change the aspect ratio. I don't use TMPGenc to encode though (CCE). It could be the dar flag on your input is faulty.

But how come SpruceUP doesn't allow 16:9 on 1/2-D1?

Do you receive some sort of error?

[geek rock]

I don't have a widescreen TV to test it on but it definately did resize properly on my 4:3 TV so that was good

if you set your DVD player to 16:9 mode, and play the DVD, it should fill the whole screen if you've done it correctly. it'll look stretched, though.

-Mark

[VidGuy]

That is a standard DVD resolution. It supports both 4:3, and 16:9. You heard wrong. Encode away. It will play fine on any player, as long as you stay within specifications.

Don't confuse this with problems some players have playing SVCD/CVD resolutions on CD-R media.

Actually, that's not entirely true - maybe it should play fine, but I know on my Pioneer DV-333 it does not, and I thought when I tried it on an Apex 3201 it did not either. They play the 352x480, but they wouldn't stretch it.

[DJRumpy]

That would be an issue with your player, or the wrong dar on your mpeg. The standard supports both aspect ratios. This is not to be confused with CVD on CD-R. I assume that one is the same as SVCD, supporting only 4:3 in the standard. I'm talking about Half-D1 on DVD.

[adam]

Actually, 16:9 is NOT supported in the DVD standard when using half-D1 resolutions.

http://www.mpeg.org/MPEG/DVD/Book_B/Video.html

4:3 (all video formats)
16:9 (all formats except 352 pixels/line)

Some authoring software will still accept it, compliant software will not. Scenarist, which most commerical DVDs are authored with, does not. Some DVD players may still play it correctly, but they are not required to.

[DJRumpy]

Hmm. I've seen this but I assumed they were talking vcd resolutions, not 352 horizontal in general. I found an additional site backing this up, although the source page was questionable. Unfortunately, I don't have access to the true spec's either. I'll take this as gospil until I see something different.

[VidGuy]

Just to be clear, I'm talking about 352x480 on a DVD-R, not on a CD-R.

I authored with DVDMaestro, which did let me set a 16:9 aspect ratio, but it did not stretch when played on the Pioneer DVD-333....

[DJRumpy]

Yep. The site that I found was very specifc. Any resolution using a 352 vertical was supposed to be limited to a 4:3 aspect ratio. Unfortunately we're all sort of guessing, since the people who actaully know all of the DVD spec signed a non-disclosure agreement.

I did find two other sites that repeated the info, and found none that said specifically that 16:9 was supported with half-D1. My player plays anything, including SVCD with 16:9, CVD with 16:9, and DVD-R Half D1 with 16:9. Until I find something that says its supported, I'll go with what Adam and these other websites tell me.

Just for the record, (in case anyone is wondering...), SpruceUp will also let you import half-d1 with 16:9 aspect ratios.

In case you want to get around this, you can always create a 16:9 video, and place it in a 4:3 aspect ratio. I do it all the time for people with Widescreen who want an SVCD that looks 'right'.

VidGuy, sorry I haven't answered before.

Have you tried to encode the video with a 16:9 flag and then author it with DVDMaestro with "16:9 Letterbox" checked?
Does your DVD-player (standalone) add the black bars then?

[DJRumpy]

I don't use Maestro, but I would guess that that option would simply resize it to a 4:3 letterboxed output (16:9 squeezed into a 4:3 aspect ratio). Can someone confirm?

Yes. But when I watch it on my widescreen-tv I have to zoom it (vertically), which makes the picture very unsharp.

[VidGuy]

VidGuy, sorry I haven't answered before.

Have you tried to encode the video with a 16:9 flag and then author it with DVDMaestro with "16:9 Letterbox" checked?
Does your DVD-player (standalone) add the black bars then?

Of course - no neither player adds the black bars - basically, it looks like they ignore the 16:9 flag totally.

Actually, I'd have been semi-happy if it had resized it - but it didn't.
(I've never tried this on a 16:9 TV, though). Basically it played the video just as though it was 16:9 flagged.

Nowadays, with my PC attached to my TV - I could play it and "fix it", but that doesn't help the standalone player...

[DJRumpy]

Yes. But when I watch it on my widescreen-tv I have to zoom it (vertically), which makes the picture very unsharp.

That confirms it. An improperly encoded movie (16:9 squeezed into a 4:3 aspect ratio), and played back on a 16:9 television will look 'short' like you've described. This option simply resizes the video into a 4:3 aspect ratio. Not desirable for compatability on 16:9 television.

Actually, I'd have been semi-happy if it had resized it - but it didn't.
(I've never tried this on a 16:9 TV, though). Basically it played the video just as though it was 16:9 flagged.

It did resize it. When a 16:9 movie is resized into a 4:3 aspect ratio, it will look 'right' on a 4:3 television. It will appear short on a 16:9 television. A properly encoded 16:9 video will be scaled by the DVD hardware for a 4:3 display. This way it looks right on any display (4:3, or 16:9).

[VidGuy]

DJRumpy - I beg to differ - it didn't resize it.

I played it on a 4:3 screen and it filled the screen. If it had resized it, I would have got letterboxed video, and I did not (I'd have been happy on a 4:3 if it had been letterboxed). It doesn't appear short - it appears elongated, because it should have been letterboxed and wasn't.

[Cecilio]

Hey i use DVD2SVCD to make my backups being that i still have a cd burner and not a dvd burner, but you have three options it says encode [4:3 as 4:3] [encode 16:9 as 4:3] and it has [anamorphic no borders encoded as 16:9] which one is true 16*9 the anamorphic one right or no?

[Vejita-sama]

Everything that I've read said that anamorphic DVDs are only supported at 720x480.

Cecilo - you are correct. DVD2SVCD makes SVCDs. VCDs, SVCDs, and CVD ONLY have a DAR of 4:3. So the options are:

4:3 as 4:3 - normal backup
16:9 as 4:3 - letterboxed, the black parts are part of the encoded MPEG and the resulting SVCD has a DAR of 4:3
anamorphic - makes an anamorphic xSVCD which might not work on some/most players. The encoded MEPG has a DAR of 16:9 and (if it works) your DVD will letterbox it on the fly for your 4:3 TV.

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articles/anamorphic/aspectratios/widescreenorama.html

[Cecilio]

Thanks Vejita-Sama

[DJRumpy]

DJRumpy - I beg to differ - it didn't resize it.

I played it on a 4:3 screen and it filled the screen. If it had resized it, I would have got letterboxed video, and I did not (I'd have been happy on a 4:3 if it had been letterboxed). It doesn't appear short - it appears elongated, because it should have been letterboxed and wasn't.

VidGuy, can you examine the IFO flag regarding aspect ratio. You can use IFO edit for this to see how it should respond to a 4:3 display. You might also verify the DAR flag on the mpeg.

I recently found out that the most standalones can't add the black borders on 1/2-D1 if the DVD-player is set to PAL and the video is NTSC (and vice versa).
So I tried it out on my Mustek V560, and it was correct. On a NTSC 16:9 1/2-D1 the borders wasn't added correctly (because my player is set to PAL).

Please, test this at your player and report if this have been the problem why it haven't letterboxed correctly before!

Thanks

[FulciLives]

I recently found out that the most standalones can't add the black borders on 1/2-D1 if the DVD-player is set to PAL and the video is NTSC (and vice versa).
So I tried it out on my Mustek V560, and it was correct. On a NTSC 16:9 1/2-D1 the borders wasn't added correctly (because my player is set to PAL).

Please, test this at your player and report if this have been the problem why it haven't letterboxed correctly before!

Thanks

Well how often will you really be using half D1 when you need to have the player do the conversion?

Either don't use half D1 but instead full (if you want to keep it anamorphic) or use half D1 but convert the original 16x9 source to 4:3 (which can be easily done in an AVISynth AVS script).

Also if you need too you can convert PAL to NTSC or vice versa when doing the encoding in TMPGEnc or CCE

- John "FulciLives" Coleman