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  1. Member
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    i have a pal dvd, my tv doesnt support pal dvds, so how do i go about making it ntsc dvd?
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  2. Member FulciLives's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ams30gts
    i have a pal dvd, my tv doesnt support pal dvds, so how do i go about making it ntsc dvd?
    You need to do three major things to convert a PAL DVD to a NTSC mpeg2 file (which you can then make into a DVD using a DVD burner).

    1.) Adjust the resolution from 720x576 to 720x480
    2.) Adjust the framerate from 25fps to either 23.976fps or 29.97fps
    3.) Adjust the audio

    Here is a website that has some ways on how to do all this:
    http://www.geocities.com/xesdeeni2001/StandardsConversion/

    The website has a section on how to convert an interlaced PAL source (25fps) to NTSC at 29.97fps

    It doesn't have a section on how to convert a progressive PAL source (25fps) to NTSC at 23.976fps but you can follow the VCD guide (number II on the website) which is almost the same process but remember to check 3:2 pulldown in TMPGEnc if you are doing it as a mpeg2 DVD complaint video file (and of course choose the NTSC DVD FILM template instead of the NTSC VCD FILM template).

    Don't use that WSOLA.exe thing for the audio. For the audio you want to use BeSweet. You need to download the most recent BETA versions of BeSweet and the BeSweet GUI along with the other programs that the GUI uses such as AZID etc.

    You can find this software on the doom9 website. In fact there is a link to the BeSweet homepage website on the LINKS page at the doom9 website.

    Using BeSweet you can convert the original AC-3 audio file from 25fps to 23.976fps ... there is a built-in option for this ... not only does it give the fps values but it also will say PAL --> NTSC
    It works rather well but not with the current STABLE version of BeSweet which is why you need the BETA version (both for BeSweet and the BeSweet GUI).

    Now you can go from AC-3 to AC-3 or you can go from AC-3 to WAV. You can then convert the WAV to MP2 for the DVD ... just don't try to go straight from the AC-3 to a MP2 ... this doesn't work when trying to perform the FPS change. Please note that if you go from AC-3 to AC-3 the new AC-3 will have a delay value of "0" even if the original did not.

    When you are done with TMPGEnc you will have a video file (filename.m2v) and then either your AC-3 or WAV/MP2 audio file.

    At that point you can either mux the video and audio together (again you can use TMPGEnc to do this using the MPEG TOOLS section) to create a single filename.mpg or if your authoring software can read seperate files better to leave it that way. SpruceUP is a simple authoring program that will accept a seperate m2v video file and a single AC-3 audio file. Just make sure they both have the same name (mymovie.m2v and mymovie.ac3) and are in the same FILE DIRECTORY when you go to import it.

    You can also use Ulead MovieFactory 2 if you mux the video and audio into a single mpeg file (mymovie.mpg) ... this will work even with AC-3 audio although MF2 will give you an error that it doesn't support AC-3 audio. Not a problem though. You will NOT have audio in preview mode but it will pass it along to the final DVD recordable. Just make sure you don't try to edit the file at all (although making chapter points and menus are fine) and make sure you click on the option that says something like this, "DO NOT RE-ENCODE COMPLAINT DVD FILES"

    I like MF2 because it is easy to make menus and chapters and the program is only about $50 US dollars. SpruceUP is no longer being made but there are ways to get it (cough hack pm me if you need cough help with that cough hack).

    So first create your audio file either as an AC-3 file or as a WAV then an MP2. This way you know exactly how large your audio file is BEFORE you use TMPGEnc. The trick is to encode at a bitrate that will get you close to 4.3GB (with the video and audio files added up) without going over it. In fact to be on the safe side I would shoot for around 4.0GB so you have room for error not to mention your DVD structure files (including menus and chapters etc.)

    It's a pain-in-the ass proceedure but in the end you will have a very high quality NTSC DVD-R (or DVD+R whatever your computer burner type is) that is NTSC and region free.

    Some tips:
    If the PAL source is progressive go for NTSC 23.976fps
    If the PAL source is interlaced go for NTSC 29.97fps
    When you rip the DVD to your computers HDD you will have to use DVD2AVI to get a d2v project file and your AC-3 audio. Please be warned that DVD2AVI almost always says that a PAL source is INTERLACED when in fact most seem to be PROGRESSIVE. You can test this by playing the d2v back frame by frame. I use GORDIAN KNOT for this (a tool mostly used for DIVX/XVID creation but I always find it handy for other things, like this step for instance).
    If the original PAL source is 16x9 you can leave it that way for NTSC or you can resize it to a 4:3 aspect ratio. Either let TMPGEnc resize it for you or do it in an AVS script by resizing to 720x422 (then add borders of 77 on the top and bottom with the addborders AVS command to get back to the proper PAL hieght of 576).

    GOOD LUCK

    - John "FulciLives" Coleman

    P.S.
    If you have many PAL DVD discs or think that you may be buying more in the future then you might want to save yourself the headache and get a DVD player that can play back PAL DVD discs and convert them to NTSC on-the-fly. One of the best such players is the Cyberhome CH-DVD 500 which can be bought direct from the CYBERHOME website for only $79.95 USD. You might also want to check out the JVC players which are also highly regarded. The best prices I have seen on JVC players are at HK FLIX which is a US based website that specializes in Hong Kong and Japanese import DVD movies (along with selling code free DVD players which can do PAL to NTSC conversion such as the JVC models).
    "The eyes are the first thing that you have to destroy ... because they have seen too many bad things" - Lucio Fulci
    EXPLORE THE FILMS OF LUCIO FULCI - THE MAESTRO OF GORE
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  3. FulciLives

    That is an EXCELLENT GUIDE which should be added to the GUIDES on this site. 8)

    In another thread/forum would you mind doing a write up on converting SVCD PAL to SVCD NTSC It would need to address the BeSweet 2.0 .ac3 Pioneer audio limitation which I believe you are aware of.

    Thanks....
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  4. Member FulciLives's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by joepic
    FulciLives

    That is an EXCELLENT GUIDE which should be added to the GUIDES on this site. 8)

    In another thread/forum would you mind doing a write up on converting SVCD PAL to SVCD NTSC It would need to address the BeSweet 2.0 .ac3 Pioneer audio limitation which I believe you are aware of.

    Thanks....
    I've never had a PAL SVCD to work with as a source but it shouldn't be hard to do ... I guess my question would be this ... is a PAL SVCD always interlaced or can it be progressive? Either way once you determine which it is (interlaced or progressive) you would basically do the same thing as above using the NTSC SVCD template in TMPGEnc.

    As for the BeSweet issue with Pioneer players ... I have been using MP2 sound for AC-3 source files unless it is a 5.1 AC-3 since the Pioneer seems to have no problem with 5.1 AC-3 files created by BeSweet (only 2.0 AC-3 files). So if the original is a 5.1 AC-3 I just transcode it to a new 5.1 AC-3 using the frame rate change built into the BeSweet GUI. If the original is a 2.0 AC-3 I convert it to a WAV (doing the frame rate change) then convert the WAV into an MP2 file (for some reason I can't get BeSweet to go straight from AC-3 to MP2 while doing the frame rate change).

    I've heard that there are some other programs that can do create a 2.0 AC-3 file that will work with the Pioneer players. But I don't have any of those programs. So I suppose if you did have another program that could create a 2.0 AC-3 file then use BeSweet to convert the 2.0 AC-3 to a WAV file (doing the frame rate change in the process) then use your other program to create a 2.0 AC-3 from the corrected WAV file.

    I just (very recently) got my hands on ACID PRO 4.0 which I understand can create a 5.1 AC-3 from a 2 channel stereo (mono?) source. So I am going to give that a try sometime real soon. I intend to convert the PAL 2.0 AC-3 to a NTSC WAV using BeSweet then feed the 2 channel WAV into ACID PRO 4 and see how the 5.1 AC-3 turns out. I assume the program can also just do a 2.0 AC-3 file as well so I'll try both and see what happens. I have several stand alone DVD players and one is a Pioneer 606D which doesn't like the 2.0 AC-3 files made by BeSweet so I will be able to use that player to test the AC-3 files I create with ACID PRO 4.0 assuming the program does work and I can figure it out hehehe

    - John "FulciLives" Coleman
    "The eyes are the first thing that you have to destroy ... because they have seen too many bad things" - Lucio Fulci
    EXPLORE THE FILMS OF LUCIO FULCI - THE MAESTRO OF GORE
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  5. FulciLives

    Thanks for sharing your ideas on the sound conversion.

    I believe you will need the 5.1 plugin for the ACID PRO 4.0 to do your conversions.

    I will look forward to reading your results on the best audio conversion feature for the Pioneer.

    Basically I am just looking for the quickest way to convert PAL SVCD to NTSC SVCD or DVD. I would like to keep the format as SVCD and use SVCD2DVDMPG+ with menus (new feature in beta test) to put two or more movies on a NTSC DVD.
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  6. FulciLives

    The audio from the SVCD PAL is:

    Audio :224 Kbps, 44100 Hz, 2 chan., Mpeg-1 audio Layer 2

    This is what needs to be converted for the Pioneer in NTSC DVD or prefered NTSC SVCD format.

    The video from the SVCD PAL is:

    Video : 2500 Kbps, 25.0 fps, res. 480*576 (16:9), MPG2 = MPEG 2 (SVCD/DVD),
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  7. FulciLives

    There is a new version of BeSweet GUI 0.6b76 that supports drag & drop of DTS files in batch mode, allows for bit order selection in AC3 output mode, there are some presets for 5.1 output and a CLI bug in the boost section has been fixed.

    Does this solve our Pioneer 2.0 .ac3 audio problem
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    thanx for all the help guys. going through the process right now. i only have 1 question here...


    this is my avs file, is it correct? where exactly do i add these lines?


    DVD2AVIProjectFile
    4
    86 C:\Documents and Settings\ams30gts\Desktop\DVD-UKM_Resident_Evil\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_1.VOB
    86 C:\Documents and Settings\ams30gts\Desktop\DVD-UKM_Resident_Evil\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_2.VOB
    86 C:\Documents and Settings\ams30gts\Desktop\DVD-UKM_Resident_Evil\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_3.VOB
    86 C:\Documents and Settings\ams30gts\Desktop\DVD-UKM_Resident_Evil\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_4.VOB

    Stream_Type=1,0,0
    iDCT_Algorithm=2
    YUVRGB_Scale=1
    Luminance=128,0
    Picture_Size=0,0,0,0,0,0
    Field_Operation=0
    Frame_Rate=25000
    Location=0,0,3,5CD7E

    LoadPlugin("MPEG2DEC.dll")
    LoadPlugin("SmoothDeinterlacer.dll")
    MPEG2Source("C:\Documents and Settings\ams30gts\Desktop\DVD-UKM_Resident_Evil.vob1.d2v")
    SmoothDeinterlace(doublerate=true)
    LanczosResize(720,480)
    ChangeFPS(59.94) # or ConvertFPS(59.94)
    SeparateFields()
    SelectEvery(4,1,2)
    Weave()
    ConvertToRGB()




    theres more after that, but its just a bunch of numbers. the lines i added are in bold
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  9. Member FulciLives's Avatar
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    Hello ams30gts

    I need to know two things before I can help you further ...

    I need to know:

    1.) Is the original PAL DVD 16x9 enhanced or just 4:3
    2.) Is the original PAL DVD progressive or interlaced

    Post here with your answers and I will tell you what to do.
    Right now it appears that your AVS script is for converting a PAL interlaced clip to 29.97fps but since the movie in question is not that old of a release I would expect it to be progressive and probably 16x9 as well but since I don't have this PAL DVD I need you to confirm for me.

    - John "FulciLives" Coleman

    P.S.
    JoePic ... I will get to you soon
    "The eyes are the first thing that you have to destroy ... because they have seen too many bad things" - Lucio Fulci
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    how do i find out this information?
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  11. Member FulciLives's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ams30gts
    how do i find out this information?
    When you used DVD2AVI to create your project file (filename.d2v) it tells you if the source DVD is 4:3 or 16:9

    DVD2AVI will also tell you if the source is INTERLACED or PROGRESSIVE however in the case of PAL DVD sources it will almost always say INTERLACED when in fact most PAL DVD discs are PROGRESSIVE. So in other words if DVD2AVI tells you that your PAL DVD source is INTERLACED you simply can't trust it.

    So that means you need to manually inspect the D2V file to see with your own eyes if the video is INTERLACED or PROGRESSIVE. This is what I use GORDIAN KNOT for as that program allows you to load your D2V file and then play it back including single frame slow motion. You can also use VirtualDubMod (not just the regular VirtualDub) or you CAN use the normal VirtualDub if you use an AVS script. In that case (using an AVS script) you just need the following in your AVS script:

    LoadPlugin("MPEG2DEC.dll")
    MPEG2Source("C:\MOVIE\VIDEO_TS\filename.d2v")
    Of course your DIRECTORY PATH to "MPEG2DEC.dll" and your D2V file may be different than in my example but that is all you need ... just those two lines. Then you can open the AVS file in VirtualDub and play the file back.

    Find a clip that has movement WITHIN the clip (such as a static camera shot with someone or thing moving left to right etc. within the frame) and look for any INTERLACING artifacts. Interlacing is most noticeable when there is movement. Also I have seen PAL DVD videos have almost thin horizontal lines within the image (another sign of interlacing). It is best to try both normal playback AS WELL AS single frame advancement. If it is PROGRESSIVE then all the frames in a sequence (25 frames = 1 second or what I call 1 sequence) will be full frames with no interlacing in movement and without horizontal lines. I don't know if you are familar with what I am talking about but IF it is INTERLACED you will know it.

    Remember ... most PAL DVD videos are PROGRESSIVE. The only sure time they will not be is if the footage was originally shot on video such as a BBC television show. Also sometimes I have seen PAL DVD videos that have been BADLY converted from NTSC sources and this will cause any number of strange interlacing (mostly on movement) effects.

    Anyways my guess is that the movie you have is 16x9 (you will have to run DVD2AVI again but no need to create a new D2V file just load the vob files into it and preview by hitting F5) and probably progressive.

    So please verify that (or dispute what I said if you find differently) and post here.

    I want to point out that I am no expert at PAL DVD to NTSC DVD conversions but I've done it before and tonight I ran a bunch of tests using the new method (that I outlined above ... thanks to my own experiences and that website I pointed too) and I can now write a step by step guide as to how to do it ... assuming it is progressive and either 4:3 or 16x9 (slightly different depending on what format it is in). I have not tested the interlaced method yet ... will be doing that another day when I have way too much time to kill

    - John "FulciLives" Coleman

    P.S.
    As I said I did some testing and just to share I took the UK DVD release of Dario Argento's SLEEPLESS (aka NONHOSONO) which is a PAL Progressive 16x9 DVD. I created the D2V file along with the AC-3 file. I converted the AC-3 to a WAV file (using BeSweet to do a PAL 25fps to NTSC 23.976fps frame rate change) then loaded the D2V file and the WAV file into TMPGEnc (Plus 2.5) and was able to create a small clip (I only encoded the first 3 or 4 minutes of the movie using CBR 7500kbps and MP2 sound set at 48k 384kbps) resulting in a final mpeg file with both video and audio muxed together. I was then able to import this into an authoring program (I used SpruceUP) and actually created a DVD (well VIDEO_TS folder on my computer's HDD) and then played it back connecting the output of my Hollywood Plus card to my TV (just like having a DVD in the computer ... that card and the newer replacement called the Xcard are great for DVD testing without the need to burn) and got a perfect image with sound in synch and with perfect resize from the 16x9 to 4:3 of my TV. In other words it appeared widescreen on my 4:3 TV but if I had a widescreen (16x9) TV then it would have been ENHANCED ... just like a REAL DVD you buy at a store.

    Now I'm itching to convert more of my PAL DVD discs to NTSC. I just wish that my computer was faster ... the mpeg2 encoding in TMPGEnc sure is SLOW as hell!
    "The eyes are the first thing that you have to destroy ... because they have seen too many bad things" - Lucio Fulci
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  12. Member
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    i just checked it.

    my dvd is Progressive and 16:9
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    Excellent guide and link,FulciLives(he does,btw, ) That solves my sound problem for Conversion.
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  14. @FulciLives

    What were your experiences with WSOLA?

    With the problems I've had with WSOLA (not quality, just technical issues with WAV files and memory usage), and with the pitch shift in BeSweet (or other programs), I'm looking to modify the conversion page. The other option I'm considering is to convert progressive PAL to interlaced NTSC without modifying the sound/duration. The output artifacts are similar to telecining. But what has been your experience with this conversion?

    Xesdeeni
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  15. Member FulciLives's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Xesdeeni
    @FulciLives

    What were your experiences with WSOLA?

    With the problems I've had with WSOLA (not quality, just technical issues with WAV files and memory usage), and with the pitch shift in BeSweet (or other programs), I'm looking to modify the conversion page. The other option I'm considering is to convert progressive PAL to interlaced NTSC without modifying the sound/duration. The output artifacts are similar to telecining. But what has been your experience with this conversion?

    Xesdeeni
    Hello Xesdeeni

    First of all ... great conversion page
    Secondly ... I only ever tried WSOLA once with a STEREO WAV which was generated from a 5.1 AC-3 using BeSweet. The WAV file was rather large as it was the soundtrack to a full length film with a running time of about 112 minutes. I forget now the error I got but it wouldn't work ... some sort of error about the WAV ... it would not "accept it" and do the conversion. If I recall the readme.txt that came with WSOLA said it might not work with very large WAV files so thinking thta was the problem I just decided right then and there to give up on it.

    I've been using BeSweet to convert the sound mostly and it seems to work and it sounds fine to me. If the original is a 5.1 AC-3 then I just transcode it to a new 5.1 AC-3 using the built-in BeSweet GUI template for PAL (25fps) to NTSC (23.976fps). If the original is a 2.0 AC-3 then I convert it to a STEREO WAV (again doing the frame rate change) then just feed that WAV into TMPGEnc to get a MP2 soundtrack. Some players (mostly Pioneer and at least some Samsung models) do not like the 2.0 AC-3 audio files that BeSweet generates although these same players appear to have no problems with a 5.1 AC-3 generated by BeSweet.

    You have to use the BETA versions of BeSweet and the BeSweet GUI as the most current "Stable" versions don't do the frame rate correctly. As I said it does match the converted NTSC video and it sounds fine to me as far as pitch goes etc.

    I've read that like 99% of 24fps film material converted to 25fps PAL simply has the audio sped up without adjusted the pitch and that the process BeSweet uses simply slows it back down restoring the way it originally was. How true that really is I do not know.

    I have had great experiences converted progressive PAL sources to NTSC using 23.976fps but I've never been able to get an interlaced PAL source to properly convert to NTSC but I had been using a method slightly different than what is on your conversions website (which I only just discovered not that long ago) so I need to try your method of interlaced PAL to NTSC (29.97fps) but I haven't gotten around to it yet. I think in my entire PAL collection I only have like a couple interlaced PAL DVD discs and the one I wanted to convert the most just got an official US NTSC release last month. So in other words I am in no rush to figure out interlaced PAL to NTSC.

    - John "FulciLives" Coleman
    "The eyes are the first thing that you have to destroy ... because they have seen too many bad things" - Lucio Fulci
    EXPLORE THE FILMS OF LUCIO FULCI - THE MAESTRO OF GORE
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  16. Member FulciLives's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ams30gts
    i just checked it.

    my dvd is Progressive and 16:9
    GREAT

    Here goes ...

    Start up TMPGEnc and select the WIZARD MODE and then select the DVD NTSC 16X9 template. Select VBR using MP2 sound.

    For the VIDEO FILE click BROWSE and load the D2V file you made with DVD2AVI. For the AUDIO FILE you can either leave it blank (if you will be using AC-3 audio) or you can load a WAV file into it if you want MP2 audio. If you are going with MP2 sound make sure you convert the original AC-3 to a WAV using BeSweet and do the PAL (25fps) to NTSC (23.976fps) frame rate conversion. Then load that WAV now. If you are going to use the original AC-3 then use BeSweet to transcode it to a new AC-3 file using the PAL to NTSC frame rate option. Then leave the AUDIO FILE blank here.

    For "EXPERT SETTINGS FOR SOURCE" you should do this:
    Video Type = non-interlace
    Field Order = selecting non-interlace will "blank" this out don't worry about it
    Aspect Ratio = 16:9 625 line (PAL)
    Content of Video = film movie

    Now click on NEXT

    On the next screen that pops up you want to click on OTHER SETTINGS
    This will bring up a new window that says MPEG Setting with a bunch of tabs across the top with the left most tab being VIDEO

    VIDEO TAB:
    The ENCODE MODE should already be set to "3:2 pulldown when playback" so no need to change that.
    DC COMPONENT PRECISION is set to "9 bits" so change it to "10 bits" for best quality
    MOTION SEARCH PRECISION should be set to "High Quality (Slow)" as this will give you the best combination of speed and quality. You could use the setting above that "Highest Quality (Very Slow)" but like the name implies it will slow down your encoding BIG TIME without a noticeable difference in quality from the "High Quality (Slow)" setting.

    ADVANCED TAB:
    The Video source type should already be set to "non-interlace (progressive)" so leave it alone. Also leave alone the FEILD ORDER as well as SOURCE ASPECT RATIO which should already be set to the correct setting of "16:9 625 Line (PAL)"
    VIDEO ARRANGE METHOD should be "Full screen" and nothing else.
    Put a CHECK MARK next to DO NOT FRAME RATE CONVERSION and there is no need to CHECK MARK the 3:2 pulldown as it already knows this (remember we checked it on the VIDEO TAB already).

    No changes need be made for any of the other TABS so at this point you can click on OK at the bottom of the MPEG Setting window

    This will bring you back to the Project Wizard page that you came from ... click on NEXT at the bottom

    Now you should be at the BITRATE SETTING page.
    This is where you can adjust your bitrate setting manually so uncheck the AUTO SETTING and adjust the bitrate so that your total final size is somewhere between 3900.00MB to 4000.00MB as this should leave enough space so you don't accidently MAX out the DVD especially when adding your AC-3 file if you need to do that during the authoring stage. This setting is "HIT OR MISS" as I haven't done this enough times to know what is the best setting but to be safe, as I said, don't go over 4000.00MB

    NOW click NEXT

    Select your output file and DIR and make sure you check mark OUTPUT VIDEO AND AUDIO AS INDIVIDUAL ELEMENTARY STREAMS which will give you a video file like this (filename.m2v) and a MP2 audio file like this (filename.mp2)

    Actually, if you are encoding a WAV to MP2 then you can leave that option unchecked and you will get a single file (filename.mpg) which will contain the video and audio. But if your sound file is empty because you will be using an AC-3 audio track then split it up and ignore the mp2 filename as you will be using the m2v file and your ac3 file in your authoring program.

    As far as authoring goes I usually use SpruceUP when I have an AC-3 file since it is easy to use. You just name your m2v and ac3 filenames the same (such as mymovie.m2v and mymovie.ac3) then load it into SpruceUP and bingo you are done. Well almost. After SpruceUp you will have a folder with a VIDEO_TS folder of files. You have to go into that folder and modify your IFO files using IFOEdit to change the screen setting from 4:3 (the default SpruceUp uses) to 16x9
    Sounds like it might be tricky but it is very easy just make sure you do it with ALL of your IFO files.

    I then usually make an IMAGE using ImgTools (classic version) and then burn it with DVD Decrypter.

    If you are doing a single mpg file with MP2 audio then you can pretty much use just about any authoring program ... my fave being Ulead DVD MovieFactory 2 although I should point out that everytime I have done PAL to NTSC conversion I have always used AC-3 audio so I've only ever used SpruceUP for these jobs but I see no reason why another authoring program will not work.

    In the end you will have a DVD-R or DVD+R (depending on your burner of course) that will be NTSC region free and 16x9 enhanced just like a commercial made DVD it will adjust itself according to your TV type setting in your DVD player setup.

    - John "FulciLives" Coleman

    Hope I made it clear enough but if you have any problems or questions along the way let me know

    I think there is a guide either on this website and/or the doom9 website on how to use SpruceUP and then follow the guide for DVD2ONE at the doom9 website. Just ignore the part about DVD2ONE and pick up the guide at the how to create an image with ImgTools part which tells you how to create an image from a DIR with your VIDEO_TS and AUDIO_TS folders (that SpruceUP makes just like DVD2ONE makes) then how to burn it to a DVD recordable with DVD Decrypter.
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  17. @FulciLives
    I only ever tried WSOLA once with a STEREO WAV which was generated from a 5.1 AC-3 using BeSweet. The WAV file was rather large as it was the soundtrack to a full length film with a running time of about 112 minutes. I forget now the error I got but it wouldn't work ... some sort of error about the WAV ... it would not "accept it" and do the conversion.
    I've really had three serious problems with WSOLA:

    1. WAV files generated by some applications (specifically DVD2AVI 1.76 so far) are not correct. There are several pieces of information in the headers of WAV files indicating the size of the data from various perspectives (size of the file, size of the data itself, etc.) and they don't match each other or the size of the files. I added checks to catch corrupt WAV files, so these files trip up my WSOLA port. I could remove the checks (or just print a warning), but when I look at the actual data in the file, there is actually some bogus data at the end. I haven't had the chance to look at the DVD2AVI source yet to figure out why the WAVs are screwed up. I'd be curious if you were getting a similar error with BeSweet WAVs.

    2. The code is a memory HOG. I didn't mess with the algorithm itself, mostly because I didn't understand it at all. I just tried to port the author's code to compile with MSVC, after I found his binary wouldn't run and I didn't want to go through all the hoops to create a *nix environment on a PC to build it (including a several megabyte *nix support library for a 300K program). Along the way I did remove one level of memory waste, but there is at least one more that I can't touch until I understand exactly how it's being used.

    3. I get crashes at the end of conversion in some versions of Windows. I don't understand why they happen some places and not others. The output file seems to be mostly OK (since the end of the input files were corrupted as mentioned above, it's hard to tell whether any corruption at the end of the converted file is the result of the conversion or the input).
    I've read that like 99% of 24fps film material converted to 25fps PAL simply has the audio sped up without adjusted the pitch and that the process BeSweet uses simply slows it back down restoring the way it originally was. How true that really is I do not know.
    I had the impression that almost all movies converted to PAL today are pitch shifted to compensate for the speed change. http://isb.ri.ccf.org/biomch-l/archives/biomch-l-1995-05/00087.html and http://www.disctronics.co.uk/technology/video/video_film.htm are two of the links I found that seem to bear this out.

    I originally had a method that used AVISynth to do the conversion including the pitch shift (see http://www.geocities.com/xesdeeni2001/StandardsConversion/StandardsConversion-1.html), but I certainly can hear the pitch change.
    ...but I've never been able to get an interlaced PAL source to properly convert to NTSC...
    Actually, I was asking about your experience converting progressive PAL to interlaced NTSC with no speed change (and thus no change to the audio). Since I'm not satisfied with the pitch change and it'll be a while before I'll have enough time to get WSOLA working well enough, I will probably change my page to show progressive PAL to interlaced NTSC, and perhaps progressive NTSC to interlaced PAL (although I understand the "bump" every half second is much more noticable). I was just wondering what you thought about that conversion.

    Xesdeeni
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  18. Member FulciLives's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Xesdeeni
    Actually, I was asking about your experience converting progressive PAL to interlaced NTSC with no speed change (and thus no change to the audio). Since I'm not satisfied with the pitch change and it'll be a while before I'll have enough time to get WSOLA working well enough, I will probably change my page to show progressive PAL to interlaced NTSC, and perhaps progressive NTSC to interlaced PAL (although I understand the "bump" every half second is much more noticable). I was just wondering what you thought about that conversion.
    Well I have a stand alone DVD player (the Cyberhome CH-DVD 500) that can play back a PAL DVD and convert it to NTSC and it apparently does it on-the-fly and in a way so that the video matches the original audio.

    I don't understand how it works because it is not a "true conversion" in that the final running time is the same as the original PAL because the audio is not (as far as I can tell) being altered at all and yet it matches up somehow and the conversion to the video does look really good.

    So if a stand alone DVD player can somehow convert the PAL video to NTSC video to match the original audio ... well ... you would think there would be a software encoding method that could do the same. How do to that though is a mystery to me

    For now though I don't have any problem with the audio quality of the BeSweet method of audio frame rate conversion.

    - John "FulciLives" Coleman

    I haven't the time right now to check out all the links you provided but I will eventually. As for WSOLA I will try to run it again so I can let you know what kind of error I am getting since I don't exactly remember what it was (I want to say it was some sort of memory error though). However right now I'm running TMPGEnc ... got the bug again ... to convert a PAL movie to NTSC ... so I don't want to run too much at once as this computer is SLOW and TMPGEnc will be running for like another 24 hours or so hehehe. I'm looking at about 37 hours encode time here to convert a 16x9 PAL DVD to a 16x9 NTSC DVD using 2-pass VBR encoding ... I'm way past upgrade time but haven't the money
    The last time I did such a conversion I used my friend's 2.4 P4 512MB RAM running WinXP home and it only (which is still a laugh) took 17 hours total.
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    Originally Posted by Xesdeeni
    Well I have a stand alone DVD player (the Cyberhome CH-DVD 500) that can play back a PAL DVD and convert it to NTSC and it apparently does it on-the-fly and in a way so that the video matches the original audio.

    I don't understand how it works because it is not a "true conversion" in that the final running time is the same as the original PAL because the audio is not (as far as I can tell) being altered at all and yet it matches up somehow and the conversion to the video does look really good.
    based on what i've read about PAL to NTSC conversions, i understand what u mean by a "true conversion" but what has always perplexed me was that if a 5 second video clip in PAL at 25fps is converted to NTSC at 29.97fps, isn't it still a 5 second video clip, but with that many more frames per second (probably what ur dvd player is doing)? i never understood why the change in the total running time is required?
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    when i try and load the .D2V file in tmpgenc, i get this "file cannot open or is unsupported"

    im using tmpgenc v 2.59
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  21. Member FulciLives's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ams30gts
    when i try and load the .D2V file in tmpgenc, i get this "file cannot open or is unsupported"

    im using tmpgenc v 2.59
    I have TMPGEnc Plus 2.5
    Version 2.59.47.155
    Core Version 1.92.142

    I have no problems importing a D2V file.
    Not sure what to tell you about that!

    At the top of TMPGEnc click on "OPTION" then click on "ENVIRONMENTAL SETTING ..."

    This will bring up the ENVIRONMENTAL SETTING dialog box which has several tabs. The tabs are (from left to right):

    GENERAL
    CPU
    SOUND
    AUDIO ENGINE
    VFAPI PLUG-IN

    On the VFAPI PLUG-IN tab I have many different "movie formats" listed and all of them are checked. When of the formasts says, "DVD2AVI Project File Reader 1.76"

    Do you have that same tab with that as a (check marked) option?

    I don't know much about the VFAPI PLUG-IN thing so maybe you don't have something set-up properly? This is outside my area of knowledge though.

    I suppose you could use an AVS script to load the D2V project file into TMPGEnc. As I said in my other earlier post I think you really just need the following 2 lines in your AVS script:

    LoadPlugin("MPEG2DEC.dll")
    MPEG2Source("C:\MOVIE\VIDEO_TS\filename.d2v")

    Again your DIR path(s) will be different than mine.

    - John "FulciLives" Coleman

    *** EDIT ***
    I just wanted to add that on the AUDIO tab of the ENVIRONMENTAL SETTINGS you should use the "HIGH QUALITY (LOW SPEED)" setting which will give you better quality MP2 sound when using TMPGEnc. The default is "LOW QUAITY (HIGH SPEED)" but once you change this setting once you don't have to do it again.
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  22. Member FulciLives's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by hitechjunkie
    based on what i've read about PAL to NTSC conversions, i understand what u mean by a "true conversion" but what has always perplexed me was that if a 5 second video clip in PAL at 25fps is converted to NTSC at 29.97fps, isn't it still a 5 second video clip, but with that many more frames per second (probably what ur dvd player is doing)? i never understood why the change in the total running time is required?
    Well think of it this way. If you have a film that was shot at the standard 24fps then you need to play it back at 24fps to match the way it was filmed. However with the PAL format the film (shot at 24fps) is played back at 25fps which is a faster rate making the film shorter in playing length since you are speeding it up 1fps per second. This is an increase of 4% so for example a film shot at 24fps that is 120 minutes long will be about 115 minutes at the PAL playback speed of 25fps. So a "true" PAL to NTSC conversion will restore the original 24fps rate so a PAL DVD with a running time of 115 minutes will be 120 minutes when converted to NTSC

    Now NTSC normally is 30fps but it is still running at 24fps it just adds some "blended" frames if you will to match the 30fps of the video format but technically one second of NTSC video at 30fps is still only showing 24 frames of film. It gets a bit technical to say the least.

    - John "FulciLives" Coleman
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    i understand the concept of telecine.

    but now that i think about it, i guess it's all done to retain the films original quality while viewing it on NTSC televisions, film transfer to NTSC (film) to NTSC (video) to TV.
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    heres what my tmpgenc looks like




    i also tried these settings

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    tmpgenc plus 2.5
    version 2.59.47.155
    core version 1.92.142
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    Put the AVI VFW compatibility to 1 or 2. It's too low. That'll fix the DVD2AVi issue.
    I'm not online anymore. Ask BALDRICK, LORDSMURF or SATSTORM for help. PM's are ignored.
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  27. Member FulciLives's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ams30gts
    tmpgenc plus 2.5
    version 2.59.47.155
    core version 1.92.142
    That is the same version I have.
    Here is my VFAPI info



    Please note that I don't ever recall changing this info.

    - John "FulciLives" Coleman
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    i got it all to work. encoding atm. is it normal to analyze the entire thing? its going to take around 10 hrs to analyze and then however long to encode. just wondering if it is normal
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  29. Member FulciLives's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ams30gts
    i got it all to work. encoding atm. is it normal to analyze the entire thing? its going to take around 10 hrs to analyze and then however long to encode. just wondering if it is normal
    When using 2 pass VBR mode it will analyze the film for the first 50% of the progress bar (going through the movie 100%) then the other 50% of the progress bar is the second pass.

    So when it reaches 100% done on the progress bar it will be 100% done encoding.

    I got about just under 12 hours left for my 2 pass VBR encoding of Dario Argento's SLEEPLESS which like your example movie is a 16x9 PAL DVD that I am converting to 16x9 NTSC DVD.

    Since the film only has a single 5.1 AC-3 track I will probably use SpruceUp for the authoring job. I don't seem to have the stamina to learn Maeastro (the part that bugs me the most is the menu creation process).

    - John "FulciLives" Coleman

    P.S.
    Glad you got it working ... please be sure to report to us here with the final outcome
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    thanx. no menus on this one anyways
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