Pinnacle Systems Moviebox DV - MiniReview

[ap9]

Hello Folks:
Heres a mini-review of the product. I bought the Moviebox DV Analog to DV converter from Pinnacle in the US. Its a very well designed box by Porche. You can keep it in a showcase and it looks very pretty. You have Analog-ins + SVHS In. It comes with STudio8 which I think is a very good package for starters. (I am a newbie so good for me). But make sure you have lots of time to sit next to the computer during capture.

I installed the s/w and drivers on my Pentium4 2.4Ghz, 512M, 80G HDD(AV), 40G(System disk). Installation went smoothly - and in a few minutes Studio detected the MOVIEBOX dv - and I was capturing Analog video. Quality of video is impressive (For me- at least being a Newbie). Now that everything was setup and working - I Decide to capture a longer movie - 2 Hr 8MM camcorder tape. I put it in record and leave. When I come back after 1.5hrs - I see that Pinnacle has captured about 35Min and the last scrreen is STUCK! Just lots of pixels jumping around. Gives you the impression of a old 35 Vynl stuck at a point with sound/picture repeating on the spot da-da-da-da-da-da. Pinnacle STudio did a marvelous job of caturing 15-20Mins of this stuck picutre.

Then I decide to change the tape and put another tape (Better footage)in. Now I see the picture getting stuck at 15Mins. Ok - then I decide it maybe the Studio8 software. So I use the 'GREAT DV Capture tool' Scenealyzer - After 30 Min or so - Scenelyser also does the same thing... Picture/Sound stuck at one point.

I decide to do a test - Stop Playback for a few seconds and start again. It works. Now the Moviebox is in SYNC with the input capture. After 15-20 Mins again stuck at the picture. So what you have to do (Which is missing in the Users guide from Pinnacle is stay next to your computer and watch the capture. If you see it stuck. Stop playback and restart. You are all set

I contact Pinnacle Support on the website - and send them a email. I find out that they have NO SUPPORT SECTION for MovieBOX dv product . I send a email to Studio8 Support - and Studio8 support people send back a email response after 2 days saying 'STUDIO8 is NOT COMPATIBLE with CAPTURE DEVICE'. Ok so Studio8 is not compatible with capture device which is sold with studio8 - Cool. Thats a true winning combination.
I think they should have put a sticker on the box right next to 'FULL VERSION PINNACLE STUDIO 8 included' to say 'Moviebox DV NOT SUPPORTED'

So in summary...

The Good-
-Very well designed box(Analog to dv converter). Seems like 90% of Pinnacle design dollars spent on porche design. Its a very very nice box you can keep next to your other collectables showcase where you keep Sawroski stuff etc.
- Studio8 software 8.6 version included with hardware. Both DV cables included. But remember Pinnacle support says that the software packaged with the hardware is NOT compatible with the hardware, so you may need to search for s/w which does support the hardware.
- Studio8 is a nice software package if it works. I like it.
- Cheaper than the other alternatives like DVAC ($180+ online)

The Bad-
-Cannot capture long material. Max would be around ~30Min-1Hr based on my experience for unattended capture. Solution - Sit next to the computer during capture.Hit STOP right after the capture hangs with stuck pixels. Restart and you have a flawless capture
-Studio8 only creates 1 File (For dv or mpeg) -even if you want scenecaptures. So no way to select clips. If you select clips - you have to go ENCODE the whole material again (Scenelyzer is great for this).

BTW- If any gurus on the vcdhelp have any ideas on the problems please post reply. I personally think that this hardware was not ready for NTSC capture. But being a newbie I may be wrong. Thanks in advance for your help - AP

[M66]

ap9, thanks for the minireview.
What OS are you using?
You say capturing stops after about 15 minutes, right?
How big are the 15 minute files (their file size)?

[ap9]

Hi M66: The Capture does not stop. It keeps on going. I can get captures over 30 minutes sometimes, Sometimes over 18min. The 2G or 4G file restriction is not the issue unfortunately. I am using XP-Home with 2 NTFS HDD (System and AV drive). With the Moviebox - I had gotten more than 6G a few times. The problem is a huge section of the video captured will just be 1frame REPEATING over and over and over again... with no sound just Rattling sound. Example I tested today. 2Hr Analog video input to moviebox.... Output was about 11-12G file. But in the captured file 20-25Minutes are just one PIXELED Screen with Rattling sound. I went back to check the Analog footage - and its fine. So Basically Moviebox DV MISSED 20-30Minutes of my 2Hr video. Sad thing is you have to try to LOCATE the Analog footage of where the capture screwed up - and restart. Very very anoying. I may just go back to my All in wonder and sell the thing if I dont get response from Pinnacle in next few days. AP

[M66]

Ok, now I understand how the problem manifests itself.
This is a serious screw-up. If I were you I'd first try to capture from a more stable source than VHS, such as a satellite or cable receiver, to elimininate an unstable source (which VHS often is) as the problem.
If that failed, I'd send the box back, as it is not most likely broken.

I have a Canopus ADVC-100 and it is identical with the MovieBox DV in the type of connections it has (s-video, composite in) and how it connects with the PC (through Firewire).
It was truly just plug and play, right out of the box.

Did you really install drivers for the Moviebox? That sounds odd, as Firewire support is built into Windows. You should not need any special drivers for a DV device that plugs into a Firewire connector.

I think your unit is either extra sensitive to VHS's inherent unstability or is broken. I can't believe Pinnacle would release a product that doesn't work at all, because that's how I see your device: your Moviebox is completely useless as it is now.

[ktnwin]

I would return that Movie Box immediately.
Reasons:
1) it's new, not proven
2) Pinnacle always has extremely poor support for their products, you got to figure out how to make it works, if it works at all.
3) a digital camcorder with pass thru mode is only a bit more expensive , can do the analog to DV conversion as well as acting as a true camcorder. You can also go with another analog to DV box that have been proven to work (even with Studio 8 software from Pinnacle).

[EricB]

Whatever you paid for it is too much! The two stable solutions are: 1. Canopus unit or 2. a camcorder with analog passthrough. Both just work and give you no problems.

[ap9]

M66, I checked the system. The driver which it installs is the Moviebox USB drivers (Not the DV). I have no idea why Studio8 installs the USB driver. I dont think it uses it anyways as its using the std. XP 1394 DV drivers.

I tried a very nice 8mm footage(master test tape i have) playing through the 8mm Camcorder - and it missed about 5minutes in 1Hr. I am concluding that the Moviebox DV is very sensitive to footage based on my tests. ie: If you have a Home non-professional Movie captured on a camcorder (Which most home users would do) - chances are you will not be able to capture 100% of the footage. If you use a Mastered Professional Video footage - you have a better chance of 95%+ capture. I agree that this is a completely unacceptable solution even for a home user(Newbie). I am very surprised that Pinnacle systems released MovieBox DV almost 2 years after Canopus ADVC100 release - and still cannot match performance based on reviews I have read..

I will keep group posted on whether Pinnacle (Ever) returns my emails .
--AP

[ktnwin]

Hi ap9,
don't bother to wait for answer from Pinnacle. I used their products for 2 years now and have to figure out everything myself (sometimes with help from folks in this site).
Never got help from Pinnacle. If you tried to post question on Pinnacle forum, all you will get is: "tell us your system configuration, etc...".
Is the Movie box cheap enough worth keeping ? Capturing from DV should be 100% bullet proof. My dig8 camcorder helps me to capture VHS tapes all the times, never miss a single frame.

[M66]

I'm a stubborn person, so I would not give up until I had
A. Tested with a pristine source (cable or satellite receiver) via S-video
B. Tested the unit with other PCs
C. Tested the unit with other capturing software (uninstalling those USB drivers and Studio 8 too).
D. Made sure no other program was running in the background while capturing, updating all drivers, including for servicepacks for the OS, VIA Hyperion updates (if you have a VIA chipset), DirectX, and so on.

I will be able to tell you if the MovieBox works this bad for everyone soon, as a friend of mine has just received his.

Has anyone seen any other reviews on the web?

Yes, Pinnacle's support sucks (I've had a PCTV pro card).
But so does every other hardware company's support I've ever contaced and those include HP, Canon, Aver, Sony, Matrox, and more.

I don't know where you are, but here in Scandinavia, a camera with passthrough cost twice, if not three times as much as the Canopus ADVC-100 and even more than that for the Moviebox DV.

[RoopeT]

The two stable solutions are: 1. Canopus unit or 2. a camcorder with analog passthrough. Both just work and give you no problems.

Well, I just bought a Canon MiniDV cam with digital passthrough (Canon MV5i) and I'm having similar problems. Only in my case the capture stops completely after 10 - 70 minutes. I've tried to copy a VHS tape (that's in excellent condition, I don't get any frame drops if capturing with my Terratec TV card) from my JVC SVHS with built-in TBC for four times now with different software (two times with WinDV, DVIO and iuVCR), but I cannot capture the whole 90 min show.

[M66]

My friend's MovieBox DV arrived yesterday.
He connected it to the Firewire port in his computer, connected the audio left/right and composite in, installed the bundled Studio 8, did everything by the book and what do you know? The thing seemed dead.

So he brought it over to my place today.
We hooked it up and got the same results. Windows feels that the device is connected, but it seems nothing comes in through the Firewire port to the capturing software. We checked the dip switches, verified that audio and video was coming in by connecting the ADVC-100 to the same S-video and audio cables. With the ADVC, everything just worked as it should.
So that box is going back to the shop.

And how is one supposed to turn the thing on and off, as mentioned in the manual?
I could not find a on/off switch or button.

[G-man]

I had a problem with firewire captures thru my Canon ZR-40 getting "stuck" at random intervals. I could usually not go longer than 30 minutes without the capture freezing.

It turned out to be a mini refrigerator a few feet from the PC & camera! Everytime the fridge compressor kicked on it froze the capture! That fridge has been decommisioned and no hangups ever since.

[ap9]

M66, Sad to hear that your friend also had a bad experience. I never had a problem of not getting any video. Try using DVIO or Scenealyser. It maybe a Studio8 problem. I dont think there is a way to Power it off. I have kept the thing on with my pc overnight and it does not get warm at all(Its actually cold even after 20-30min use). Nice thermal insulation maybe -Or maybe given that it quits after about 30min- it does not need much power.

G-man, thanks for your experience with the refrigerator. Unfortunately I have no equipment/appliances close to the PC. Maybe I should bring a trash compactor and run the unit through it.

AP

[M66]

Ap9, sadly, it's not a software problem. I don't even have Studio 8.
I tested his Moviebox with Vegas Video, which is what I use.
Also tested it with Premiere, Ulead Videostudio and Scenalyzer.
The device was not working properly, I'm sure.
I'm an experienced "video capturerer" and am very used to working with the ADVC-100, as well as regular capture cards.

The Moviebox should function the exact same way as the ADVC and a DV camera: start it up, start the capturing software of choice, the software and Windows recognizes that the card/camera/other Firewire device is active and there is audio and video in the preview window.
That's how easy it is with the ADVC (and with a DV camera, which I have also tested). So the fact that nothing was coming in through Firewire from the Moviebox, when I got audio and video straight away when just switching the cables from the Moviebox to the ADVC suggests to me the Moviebox is broken. I made sure the green LED was lit above the correct connector I used on the Moviebox.

So you don't find an off and on button either! Wonder why they mention it in the manual, ha, ha.

I'll report back when my friend gets a new Moviebox and I have a chance to test that one.

[ap9]

After 1.5 weeks of some excellent tech support from Pinnacle Systems with responses such as <a> Studio8 packaged with the MovieBox DV does not support the MovieBox DV [b] My system which is a P4-2.4Ghz, 512MB, 2 HDD (ATA 133) was too slow for video editing <c> No response to email tech support request & <d>My Video source is the cause of the locked pixel etc - I am very happy to report that all my problems with Moviebox DV are finally solved . I returned the Moviebox-DV to the retailer with a restock fee loss to me. Also, just ordered a Canopus ADVC100. Will report in next few days of how the Canopus ADVC100 does with exact same video source and hardware. Should be very interesting data -- AP

[ktnwin]

Congrats, you did the right thing.
We, as end users, should show this kind of attitude toward manufacturers who DO NOT support their products.

[xxiangg]

It is sad to hear the story with a such end. I am shopping for a new capture
card for a while. I own several capture cards already, i.e, Pinnacle DC10,
Hauppauge WinTV, and Dazzle DVCII. But I am not very happy with them. On the
other hand, I feel Canopus ACDV100 is a little over priced. As a consumer,
I like to see more competations in this area to bring down the price. I was
very happy to see new cards like pinnacle MovieBox DV and ADS PYRO A/V link
come to market. Two weeks ago, I even went to my local Micro Center to buy
a MovieBox DV, and was lucky to be told that the only one in their stock was
sold. I now understand why some companies deserve to make a lots of money to
make their people rich and other companies deserve to go to sink. I guess my
search for my next capture cards has ended.

ap9,
Thank you very much for sharing your experience. At least it will save my
restocking charge.

By the way, my experience with my existing capture cards are

Dazzle DVCII captures in MEPG2, which is difficult to edit. I also like to
capture to AVI, so that I can use virtualdup for frameserve with different
filters and TMPGEnc for encoding.

WinTV and DC10 has a/v sync problem when the quality of input video is not
good.

[M66]

Congrats, you did the right thing.
We, as end users, should show this kind of attitude toward manufacturers who DO NOT support their products.

I agree! If more people complained and were a pain in the a**, companies wouldn't get away with selling inferior products!

ap9, I'm eager to hear how the ADVC performs with the exact same source and cabling, etc!

My friend is still waiting for a replacement for the MovieBox DV. If it performs as badly as the first one, or as yours, it will surely go back to the company that sold it.

xxiangg, I too felt it was good that Canopus got some competition and yes, the ADVC is overpriced. I haven't given up on the Moviebox yet, though. Perhaps his and Ap9's were Friday afternoon Moviebox DV's.
If my friend's new box arrives and works, I'll be able to make direct quality comparisons between it and the ADVC and that'll be fun.

[ap9]

M66, All, My ADVC100 came in this morning. I hooked it up and it was ready to work. I did have a conflict with the ATI MMC running. After removing MMC - ADVC100 detected like a champ. Guess what - I had 3 8MM Camcorder tapes with vayring level of video

Tape 1- I taped about 7 years back - Quality is so so. The Moviebox DV had stopped (Stuck on a pixel in about 30Min -- I actually know where in the tape it got stuck). -- With ADVC100 _ No stuck pixels. Pertect picture. You do see a little deterioration on color quality at that spot - but no stuck frame. Perfect capture

Tape 2- Newer tape 2-3 years old. Quality is again so so, The Moviebox DV was stuck at maybe 22Min into the tape and then again 47Min into the tape. -- With ADVC100 _ No stuck pixels.. Full recording completed in 2hrs.

Tape3 was a Master tape - Again ADVC did a fantastic job. I did not run it all the way until 2hrs -- but from what I see ADVC100 will not have issues with the tape.

Bottom Line -- As of June3,2003 - I can conclude that ADVC100 ROCKS! as suggested by many many reviews before on vcdhelp. I personally donot buy based on reviews alone - as I am more of a VALUE($) shopper. But after my tests with both units, I would NOT buy anything other than the ADVC100. For value shoppers like myself, I can only say - save up - but go for this lil miracle of a box from Canopus. $80 difference is not worth the pain. Hopefully my experience can save someone the pain

BTW - Canopus -- Keep up the good work. Even after 1.5 years, other companies cannot match what youve got Bravo on your design.

[harrymj3]

Well I wish I would have read this post before I ordered that piece of junk (Pinnacle Moviebox DV). It works so poorly that you think you must have it hooked up wrong, still can't believe it. I've tried it on 4 computers, all w/xp and plenty of power and used 2 vcr's. Tried the enclosed Studio 8 and several other other capture app's. ALL LOCKED UP without exception somewhere between 1 and 10 min of capture. It's going back for refund. Back to my Winfast2000XP Deluxe. I must have got caught up in that greener pastures syndrome. ........harrymj3

[M66]

And my friend got his replaced MovieBox DV. It's also stone dead!
Has anyone got this device working?

[harrymj3]

Well since I wrote such a scathing review on my last reply to this post I'll update my review. I was ready to pack this unit for return and thought I'll try it one more time. It has worked in 2 computers so far with Studio 8. The main difference is that I have it laying on it's side instead of in it's stand. I think it needs to be plugged in for a while before you use it to cycle, warm up or who the hell knows what. I'm copying "Funny Girl" now and had one stall at 4 and a half min but then made it to 105 min OK. I'm trying it again to see if I can get the whole movie with no errors. It also doesn't seem to like the small Sony ilink plugin. Looks like very high quality capture but very touchy. That's all for now. ............ harrymj3

[harrymj3]

I now have a brighter outlook on this product. The reason I purchased it is becuuse I bought a Sony w/Giga Pocket. The Giga Pocket captures very well but will not capture any copyrite protected material. It seem that the copyrite protection actually stimulates the Movibox DV. The newer and more protected the VHS tape is the better it works. I just copied "Tommy Boy", a movie that Giga Pocket rejected, with perfect video, zero dropped frames and no sync problems. I'm thinking about tearing up my RMA and keeping this little jewel. ............. harrymj3

[NightWing]

Just for info. Compusa is selling either one with a 30 dollar rebate in their weekly ad.