My soul for an answer: Why is the time messed up on my SVCD?

[natebetween]

Ok, ok.....not my soul......but you can have a shirt that says, "I answered a question at DVDRHELP.COM and all I got was this lousy t-shirt!"

I have 2 videos that I have encoded to MPEG 2 in TMPGEnc. Both are about 45 minutes with an average bitrate of about 2000. The Mpeg's look great and clock in at 790 megs....leaving enough room for menu and whatnot on my SVCD. Basically, I cram all 800 megs on the disc.

I have an APEX DVD player that has always played VCD's and SVCD's.

Here's my problems:

1. The videos are 45 minutes.....but when I play them in my player, it says that they are only about 30 minutes. The counter actually counts a liitle slow...counting off about 1 second ever 1.5 seconds or so.....

2. The chapter entry points are right on the money for the mpeg, but when the SVCD plays, the chapter points are at really odd places in the middle of songs............probably a bi-product of problem number one!

Please...........if there's anyone that knows something that might help me.....I'm ALL EARS!!!!!

This problem has caused me to rip a great deal of my hair out.........I'm looking a bit like Homer Simpson these days!!

[SatStorm]

Re-multiplexx your mpeg files with bbmpeg. The file gonna turn bigger (about 8mb), but you won't have this problem again.

[natebetween]

I'm off to try this...............crossing my fingers..............

[natebetween]

Well, I give up for tonight.....I remuxed using bbmpeg and the new resulting mpeg was about the same size.....but required audopadding in TMPGEnc, taking the image file from 800megs to 900megs!!

I guess I'll try again in the morning. Any ideas how to keep it from needing audopadding? Thanks!

-Nate

[natebetween]

Okay.............here's an update for those wanting to help......

I remuxed in BBMPEG using the SVCD setting instead of the MPEG 2 setting I was using...........thus avoiding the AUDOPADDING issue!!

But the time issue is STILL THERE!!!

The Mpeg is 48 minutes and my DVD player clocks it at 38.............and the chapters are all messed up..........they don't go to the place where they're supposed to.

My image file is 804 megs.

Anyone???...................you're about to see a grown man cry!!

[mats.hogberg]

Might this be a VBR issue? Don't know about APEX, but some players have a hard time calculating the correct time for VBR mpegs... In that case, there's not much to do, but refrain from VBR...

/Mats

[kees1952]

This has to do with the VBR mode. The time on a CD is recorded in the so called "sub-channels" P to W. The time information is in the Q channel. This subcode structure is not aware of the use of VBR so yes, your timing on the display is messed up. I've noticed this myself after making a SxVCD holding about 5 hours music and no video (my DVD711 does not play mp3). The time on the display moves really slow. But the duration of the CD is really about 5 hours LOL.
So indeed, not much to do about this.

As your chapter entry points point to a certain absolute time on the CD, this is also related to the same problem.

Regards, Kees Janssen.

[RoopeT]

Many DVD players cannot display the SVCD playback time correctly. My Philips DVD players always displays a playback time of 40 minutes for a fully burned 800 Mb SVCD disc, regardless what's the real playback time (the longest ones I've done have been ~ 80 minute CVCDs, and they too display a playback time of 40 minutes on the player display).

However, this doesn't have any effect on the chapters (for me). How are you creating your chapters?

[natebetween]

Ahh.....crap!!

Okay......So I'm off to re-encode in CBR instead of VBR!! Looks like I'm gonna have to either make 3 30 minute mpegs instead of 2 45's.....or lower the quality.........What a pain in the butt!

On the other hand.....if this works I'm going to hug you all!!

As for the question of how do I create my chapters.......I'm using VCDEasy for my authoring.

Thanks all............I'm off to try this!

-Nate

[corob4]

i do vbr svcd encodes and have no problems with chapters, they usally are out milli seconds.
i use in tempg > vbr 2 pass >svcd >
tab gop settings > max 16 frames per gop> header out put 1 every gop> output gop closed
tab system > mpeg-2 super-videocd vbr
now i usally get about 4500-5000 entry points for my average 800mb svcd, probaly overkill but i get the chapters where i want them

as for the autopadding, i have found either of these two work to solve the issue.

tempg > file > mpeg tools > de-multiplex (not simple doesnt work on my machine) and then > multiplex (not simple again same reason) and that will allow me to put in vcdeasy with out autopadding
pain in the ass to do !!!

2. simply check under 2 pass vbr settings > actually check enable padding and a min 300 bitrate.
and vcdeasy and tscv will no longer add 100 mb to my files.
dont know if i doing the same thing but at least when i encode the file the size is the size i want and can use so i can add menus etc...

now vcdeasy complains when you load the file inisally but tscv doesnt complain and just adds the 100mb when it makes the bin/cue, sucks if you forget when i have gotten that far, which is why i only create the bin/cue and then seperately burn, using the same programs.

[Tony]

I have a similar problem. My SVCD was encode with TMPG CBR 2500. They play alright in my Omni SD3300 and XMS 750. If I use the GOTO button to play the video at 20min, the time display on the player is only at 10 mins. This happens with both players.

I use Ulead Movie Factory to create menus on VCD's and SVCD's. The menu works fine on VCD's, but only on DVD players. They don't work on VCD players with PBC for some reason.

The meun on SVCD does goes to the correct entry points but the video just freezes for a few seconds before playing and the audio is about 2-3 seconds ahead of the video.

I tried both CD-R & CR-RW and the results are the same.

Anyone share similar experience and any idea for a cure?

[natebetween]

OKAY.....this is what I feel like doing!

I refuse to admit defeat......I Re-Encoded @ CBR with NO LUCK!!! Still shows up as a 30 minute movie when it's acutally 48. And chapters don't go to where they're supposed to go!!!....

Here's my settings if you see anything wrong.

I ripped this from a homemade DVD of some concert footage......it's interlaced!!

TMPGEnc: SVCD (NTSC) Template

My video is my .d2v file and the audio is my wav file.
Video Type: Interlaced
Field Order: Bottom field first
Aspect Ratio: 4:3 525 line (NTSC, 704X480)
Content of Video: video movie

I set my source range for a 45-48 minute clip

CBR at about 2000 or 2-pass VBR with minimum of 1400

Possible filters: Deinterlace and/or sharpen

GOP structure: IBBPBBPBBPBBPBBPBB
# of I pictures: 1
# of P pictures: 5
# of B pictures: 2

"Output bitsream for edit (Closed GOP)" is NOT checked! Should it be?

Detect scene changes is checked.

It produces a fully functional mpeg2 that shows on my media player to be 48 minutes and VCDEasy doesn't say a word about it.

....although....when authoring I get the message:
"mpeg: some marker is not set" &
"Non mpeg-1 audio stream header seen" over and over again!

Anyone??

Thanks!!

[natebetween]

P.S. Max number of frames in GOP = no limitation. Does that matter??

I'm trying to limit the frames to 16 as per suggestion....and close my GOP.

Hope this works!!!

-Nate (praying!)

[kees1952]

Nate,
just crossed my mind. In VCDEASY do not use (do not tick) the PBC part in the second tab.
Just add chapters in the next tab with the method you like best.

Regards, Kees Janssen.

[Psycho_Dad_Rules]

Hi,

I know exactly what the problem is, and probably how to fix it too

The problem is that most stand alone player don't "count" the time right. If you encode at FULL svcd compatible CBR you can fit half the amount of "audio" minutes on a svcd. 40 mins of video on a 80 min cdr. This way the player calculates the minutes perfectly. (so here you're solution. Use TMPGenc to encode at the default bitrate and at CBR of the SVCD template)
BUT.... when you use a lower bitrate (which is allowed on a svcd) you can fit more time on a disc. This way the player shifts the time.

Hope this helps.

Greetz,

pSyChO dAd

[RoopeT]

There's really no way getting your player to show the correct SVCD playback time (in this case 48 minutes). This doesn't matter too much, however. You just have to find the right options for chapters in VCDEasy.

Uncheck "use PBC". Check "Update scan data offsets" in Settings->SVCD.
Does it really matter if the player doesn't display the playback time correctly, if the chapters work OK?

[natebetween]

...for those of you keeping score.....

SVCD: 10
ME: 0

But it's OKAY!!! I've taken a break for a day....a breather if you will....to maintain my sanity......or semblance thereof.

SO it hasn't worked and I'm not touching it tonight....but I'll try to untick the PBC in VCDEasy next time I use it. "Update scan offsets" is already checked.

And NO.....I don't care what time the DVD player reads it as......it can say 30 seconds for all I care....as long as the CHAPTERS work!!!!

But I thought PBC was the heart and soul of chapter functionality....it let you use the numbers on the remote to jump to chapters. What do I do without it?? Guess I'll find out.

I'll let y'all know how I fare!!

-Nate

P.S. Appreciate all the great ideas. BTW.....what DOES closing my GOP do? Is it more compatible....less???

Thanks.

[corob4]

"Output bitsream for edit (Closed GOP)" is NOT checked! Should it be?

(my understanding is) yes it should be this allows you to put the chapter points right where you want them or within millseconds of it.
.................................................. ...
CBR at about 2000 or 2-pass VBR with minimum of 1400

is there a reason you are useing such a high min?
some players have a hard time with such a high min, i have read that most people sujest 300 as a base and usally up to 500max.
so i dont know if this maybe something to do with your problem
have you used this high setting before without problems?
....................................
....although....when authoring I get the message:
"mpeg: some marker is not set" &
"Non mpeg-1 audio stream header seen" over and over again!

i too get this all the time and have had no ill effects
i belive most is to do with tmpg or at least thats what most of it says so it will ignore...

[sterno]

what DOES closing my GOP do? Is it more compatible....less???

A closed GOP has to do with the internal structure of the encoded MPEG file, it means each GOP (group of pictures) is completely independent of other GOPs. With open GOPs the last part of one GOP can be partially based on the start of the next. The technical explanation is that closed GOPs always end with P frames and open GOPs can end with B frames.

In theory using a closed GOP can reduce quality by making slightly less efficient use of your bitrate, but in practice it isn't likely to be noticable. I've heard that DVDs require a closed GOP, but I've also heard that it's actually the authoring apps that require it while the spec doesn't. Closed vs. open GOP shouldn't matter for VCD/SVCD. If you run out of things to try it shouldn't do any harm, though.

[vhelp]

hmm...

Audio..
How about your audio ??
Could the audio and/or the way your processed your audio have anything
to do w/ the time issues ?? ??

You know, audio is sometimes the cause of video being jerky or skippy.

-vhelp

[natebetween]

Well.....once again, thank you all for your help!

BUT.....I'm throwing in the towel!!!

I've encoded, recoded, decoded, muxed, demuxed, remuxed, CBR'd, VBR'd, PBC'd, GOP'd, mpeg'd, SVCD'd, bbmpeg'd, tmpgenc'd........and now I'm SOL!!!

It seems I can put MPEG2 files through VCDEasy to make a playable SVCD....but:

1. The time doesn't show correctly on my APEX player and

2. The chapters don't go to the right places in the video.

SO......I've resigned myself to this fact, and to the fact that I can't make chapters on a SVCD.....only VCD!!! Accepting this fact is the only way I'm gonna keep from going completely mental!!

Thanks everyone...........maybe the answer is out there......it's just beyond my reach!!