ADVC which to buy.. Standalone recorder instead?

[cheetahfan]

Hi

Should i go with an ADVC-50 or ADVC-100? (Hey should i get a standalone recorder instead!?).

Current equipment
Im going to use one of these to get some VHS to my pc (want to "convert" to SVCD/DVD), and i also want to use it to capture tv-broadcasts. Im using an Intel P42,2Ghz, 512mb ram, 80gb harddrive DVD-writer and a GeForce3 card. I have a firewire card. I have a VCR with scart and s-video connections. I´ll probably get access to digital tv broadcast (using a "digital box", is it cable box?) within a year.

Quality difference
Is there ANY difference between the ADVC-50/-100? I know bout external/internal, and the ability to disable macrovision. How bout quality of the cap, both regarding video and audio? Someone stated somewhere in this forum that external is always better because you dont get interference from the motherboard/hd, any truth to that??

How to connect
Is it possible to connect the VCR and digital box to tv, and also have it "all" connected to the ADVC?? I suppose that is only possible with the ADVC-100 via the analog output, or am i all wrong here?? Oh, better tell you what i want to do : i want to be able to watch tv (on the tv!), having the computer running in the back. And as soon as i want to capture anything i just go to the computer and start capping, without having to unplug/plug any cables from the VCR/digitalbox/tv/ADVC. Hope the above make any sense to you.

Just to be sure
The ADVC-1394 let´s you capture DV, mpeg-1 and mpeg-2 "on the fly". I take mpeg-1 and mpeg-2 is captured via software, and i could do that with ADVC-50/-100 too? Some programs on tv, like nature/wildlife i want to go with full capacity of the ADVC, however other i want to capture with less quality (thus avoiding 13gb/hour while capture, and some 8hours processing, yuck). Possible, right?

Jacka$$?
Just so you know, here in Sweden, i´ll have to pay bout (US) $500 for an ADVC-100, and $360 for the ADVC-50. An Panasonic DMR-E50 standalone desktop dvd recorder goes for $740. Doesn't feel that good to cough up som 500 bucks + software when im getting close to a standalone recorder. As prices seem to be dropping on standalones, am i dumb getting a capture unit now???



Thanks alot, Robert

[geek rock]

it depends what you're really aiming to do with your final discs..

look at it this way: DVD standalone recorders are basically a digital VCR. your editing capabilities are very limited. menu and chapter creation are basic.

if you're planning on making professional-quality DVDs, complete with subtitles, full motion menus, chapter selection, multiple audio tracks, etc etc.. you're better off going for a capture unit and DVD burner.

as for this question:

How to connect
Is it possible to connect the VCR and digital box to tv, and also have it "all" connected to the ADVC?? I suppose that is only possible with the ADVC-100 via the analog output, or am i all wrong here?? Oh, better tell you what i want to do : i want to be able to watch tv (on the tv!), having the computer running in the back. And as soon as i want to capture anything i just go to the computer and start capping, without having to unplug/plug any cables from the VCR/digitalbox/tv/ADVC.

you should connect your digital box to your VCR, first of all..

the ADVC-100 has a "passthrough" mode built into it, yes, so in theory your connections could go like this..

VCR output > canopus > TV (with video and audio output ports on the canopus) and computer (with firewire port on canopus)

the passthrough mode will only work when the canopus is turned on, though.. i wouldn't recommend having it turned on 24/7.

what you could do is use some sort of scart or RCA switch box to switch your VCR from being connected to either the TV, or the canopus. then you can capture at the flick of a switch.

Just to be sure
The ADVC-1394 let´s you capture DV, mpeg-1 and mpeg-2 "on the fly". I take mpeg-1 and mpeg-2 is captured via software, and i could do that with ADVC-50/-100 too? Some programs on tv, like nature/wildlife i want to go with full capacity of the ADVC, however other i want to capture with less quality (thus avoiding 13gb/hour while capture, and some 8hours processing, yuck). Possible, right?

in a word.. no. the 1394 device has a built-in dedicated hardware chip that allows it to encode mpeg -1 or 2 "on the fly". the advc-100 has no such chip. you can only capture in DV format with it.

-Mark

[geek rock]

(thus avoiding 13gb/hour while capture, and some 8hours processing, yuck).

thought i should point out.. your encoding should not take 8 hours, for an hour's capture. i'd imagine it would take two or three at the most..

-Mark

[The village idiot]

On a P4 2Ghz I normally get 50-75% play sppeed for encoding to DVD mpeg. VCD is faster than realtime.

[FulciLives]

Hello

For best quality as well as saving alot of time you should get both a stand alone DVD recorder and a computer DVD burner. Here is why:

Nothing works better nor as good at converting analog video to mpeg2 DVD standard than a stand alone DVD recorder. Editing can only be done on a DVD-RAM disc though ... OR ... you could get a model stand alone DVD recorder with a built-in HDD. That would also allow you to edit (you capture to the HDD first, edit there, then burn to DVD-R or DVD-RAM).

But here is the great TIME SAVING thing ... if you record on a stand alone to DVD-RAM and import that into a computer you can create a custom DVD with custom menu designs and custom chapter points etc. and if you do it the correct way (not hard just need to know the proper steps) you will not EVER have to re-encode the DVD-RAM encoding. This process of computer import to make a custom disc can ONLY be done with the DVD-RAM format. You can use any type of computer burner you want so your final custom DVD can be a DVD-R or a DVD+R as long as your computer can read DVD-RAM you are in great shape (for instance Toshiba makes a cheap $50 DVD-ROM drive that can also read DVD-RAM so that is a great addition if you have a DVD burner that can't read DVD-RAM discs).

In this way you can save a lot of time since you will never have to do a software mpeg2 encoding or re-encoding.

I suggest for the stand alone either the Panasonic DMR-E50 (which can be bought for around $400) or the new (out in July 2003) DMR-E80 which includes a built-in 80GB HDD. There is a current model with a built-in HDD but it is only a 40GB model and the new model will have an extra feature which is worth the wait, not to mention the double sized HDD. The DMR-E80 is expected to have a street price of $600 to $700

Please note you will get VERY good quality using the ADVC-100 but then everything you capture will have to be encoded to mpeg2 using a software encoder and that takes a bare minimum of 2 to 3 times the length of the capture. So a 2 hour capture would easily take 4 to 6 hours to process (if not more). Considering the Panasonic DMR-E50 stand alone is only about $100 more than the ADVC-100 ... well you would be a fool not to get it.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[next]

I agree. Thanks FulciLives.

[next]

This whole Dvd-Ram thing has had me going for at least a month now. No finalizing and editing on the PC is a breeze. Love it.

[vhelp]

@ FulciLives,

yeah, but.. can it core a apple ?? (ralph's new handy kitchen helper.. hehe..)

Nah, actually, what I was REALLY asking was this..
* Can it IVTC on the fly ?? ?? ?? ??
..easy to do.. just bring into DVD2AVI and create a .D2V file or even
bring into vdub 1.4.13 (since it supports MPEG-2) and walk through a few
frames

Please double check your source for ghosting
I heared that it just encodes, and nothing else !! So, if you are tired, and
bored of the encoding game, than this is the route one should take

But, if you want absolute quality (based on your skills of course) than
nothing will be a GOOD analog capture and encode process. Even the
ADVC-100 is as good for MANY (source to MPEG-2) projects.

-vhelp

[cheetahfan]

Thanks for all the input people!

geek rock : Regarding the VCR/digitalbox/tv/ADVC connections maybe i was pushing it. The switchbox is a good idea, though. My primary concern (with tv cap) is having the tv on and beeing able to capture in a instant, so if i have to unplug/plug the VCR once in a while it´s ok for me, I´ll never do VCR and pc-cap at same time. If i buy an ADVC i´ll look it up, but as i said, a little plugg/unplugging i can take . ADVC not on 24/7 i´ll take notice.

As for the ADVC-1394 vs ADVC-50/100 capping "on the fly" why i even brought it up is because on canopus page it states that it (ADVC-1394) can : "Capture to MPEG-1*, MPEG-2*, and DV".
*Using included software for Windows (Vegas Video LE 3.0 and WinProducer) This made me believe that it´s just software based capturing not hardware.
vhelp : are you saying that ADVC-50/100 CAN capture mpeg-1 and mpeg-2 via software "on the fly"?

FulciLives : Having a standalone without HDD and still editing. Good point!, i´ll definately take this under consideration. Having read some on various standealone´s im sure that´s what all of us will be using in a couple of years, right? The ability to edit without having to encode is definately something id appreciate. I wont even mention how much the Panasonic 40Gb model is sold for here right now (hint : more than double the price for Panasonic DMR-E50!). BTW, nice little fella, the avatar of yours, seems to have some serious skin issues though.

Thanks again for some good comments. I have not decided which alternative to go yet, but if i buy an ADVC i´ll in no way pay the prices i mentioned earlier, maybe i´ll give Ebay a chance. I have to tell ya im sold on the standealone thing, now that you helped me realise i can edit on the computer. Hey.... maybe i´ll wait and get one with HDD, if i can wait..

I want to cap/rec NOOOOW!!!


Seeya. Robert

[vhelp]

morning all.

@ cheetahfan, dude..

forget about it. If you REALLY want the best quality, you have 3 things to
think about:

1 - spend the money..
2 - get hte ADVC-100 (its more than worth its weight in gold) and,
3 - you'll NEVER regret it !! !! !! !!

That's it. If you want those firewire version of advc, fine. But, in the end,
you'll be saying, "shet", I SHOULD'ev gotten the 100. And, if you don't et it, you'll see !! Don't say I told you so, cause I'll SAY IT !!

Now, if you are CERIOUS about quality, then please do FORGET about those
claims that (software) real-time MPEG-1/2 encoding is the way to go. No
matter how you slice it, for maximum quality, .AVI is the way to go. If you're
a newbie to all of this, then quality is not too much of a factor because you
wont be seeing what we all here (that's ben doing it for a few years) are
seeing in terms of final quality. Newbies always see good quality when they
first see some one elses encode. .."hay, nice piece of work!!" etc. Then,
they want to know HOW you did it and HOW THEY can obtain it too. So, that
person tells them. Well, it's usually software real-time that is sold to these
poor people. And, well, rigtely so. Only later, will they realize that the
maximin they were getting, were in fact NOT the maximim and that they
have realized that they CAN get even more maximum out of their encodes.
And, that usually means that they've takened the next step towards the
platoe in quality.

But, .AVI to MPEG-2 (I recommend MPEG-2 for obvious reasons) in your
final authoring projects. This side of the process is not an easy and simple
one for newbies. Always issues. So, softare real-time is something I
would recommend to any newbie when they first start out, so they can build
upon their skills. They'll get their. But, heck, if they want to shoot straight
to the top, then 1, don't shrug at my statements above. Heed the warning.
You won't get the maximum quality from an .AVI to MPEG-2 with those
* software real-time encoders, or even
* hardware ones, unless they are $10,000 dollars or something and are
...very configure like an .AVI to MPEG-2 is during encoding.

With .AVI to MPEG-2, you have many options and configurations and so on
and so forth, w/ Maximum potential for maximum quality, or some shet like
that hehe..

@ cheetahfan..
the ADVC-100 is about the size of a VHS tape. Once you get this gizmo,
you'll fall so hopelessly and deeply in love with it. It's an external box, and
even comes w/ an On/Off switch I love it ta death !!
And, I can do quick captures of lots of things, which is what I do when I'm
watching Satellite. I usually just keep in on and capturing, when i'm in the
channel surfing mode (which is most of the time) and I know from lots of
experience, that I'm so in saftey if I just have the ADVC-100 set to capture
w/ my DVIO app during this stage. (well, you know I mean "transfer" when
I say capture, when talking about and DV topics)
Now, I do have the 4gig limit becuase I'm in W98 but that has not ben an
issue w/ me. Most all shows and things I do are w/ commercials.

Anyways.. it's up to you. The ball is in your park.. kick it anyway you want.
But, my recommend, is the ADVC-100, hands down !!

Thats it for me.

Good luck w/ your ball
-vhelp

[FulciLives]

Hello

I must admit that if you first capture with the ADVC-100 and then convert to mpeg2 with a software encoder that you WILL get excellent results. No doubt it is one of the best capture cards. You CAN get even better quality using a capture card that allows you to capture to an avi type file of your choice (such as using the HuffyUV codec) but unless you have a very fast computer it seems difficult to get such a card to work properly and even then you may have some type of interference that degrades the image.

BUT ... as good as the ADVC-100 is ...

I still think that using a stand alone DVD recorder is best in that it gives you many options (including unattended time recordings) and takes less time since it is real-time. I feel the quality will be just as good as that done with the ADVC-100 ... but without all the time needed to do a software mpeg2 encoding.

If cost is not an issue then I would get a stand alone recorder UNLESS you have analog video that needs extensive editing (more than just simple cuts which is all that is required of most captures) since afterall the DV codec is best suited for intensive editing.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[subq]

ADVC 100 to get the video in. (I should have mine this week)

DVIO to capture.

What program to edit? (I hate commercials).

What program to encode/burn? (final destination svcd or dvd, I will keep avi for viewing on the computer only).

Looking for good quality end product captured from a PVR through the ADVC100 into the computer.