@leebo: It is more of a personal taste. Also, maybe I am stupid and I enjoy it so much. I found it "amazing", compare it to any new series this year.
Seems you don't like JMS
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freak... nice work man, very nice work. i used to find it good to go with my grandmother, as she'd have her shoulder-bag chocked full of goodies bought at the one-third-the-price supermarket round the corner, and what kind of paranoid security guy goes searching a pensioner and her grandkids now? (its the perfect terrorist disguise)
but then we gradually stopped going to see the type of films she would happily sit through with us... oddly i think last time she was part of a family film outing was jurassic park III... so such shenanigans are neccessary lest you pay more on some cruddy not-quite-right jelly babies and watered down salted-up sprite than you do on the ticket.
havent seen it, but so far there seems to be a glitch in the downloaded first one... short scenes keep repeating from time to time, like deja vu. if its some kind of copy protection then its worked, i gotta get the dvd and see if thats some kind of intentional thing for the home audience.-= She sez there's ants in the carpet, dirty little monsters! =-
Back after a long time away, mainly because I now need to start making up vidcapped DVDRs for work and I haven't a clue where to start any more!
could their be a matrix inside the matrix?
Thats optomistic. I don't think there's even a Matrix in the sequel!I don't have a bad attitude...
Life has a bad attitude!
ive dl it, cam job, AWESOME FILM, much better than 1st good script and really good effects, and mysticgohan17
at the end listen to what neo says
first of all, i would like to say i ENJOYED watching this sequel, whether bad or good. i've watch the first matrix on dvd more than 5 times, and i still don't get tired of watching it. after seeing the sequel, i would say the only thing i don't like about this movie is:
1) the way they end it "to be concluded". yeah, it's a 5+ hour movie and they had to cut it in half but when i saw that, i was like "nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnoooooooooooooooooo"!
2) the architect guy, he talks to fast and everything he says goes over my head.... don't understand anything he says even though i try VERY HARD to understand him... oh well....
other than that, i loved it...... every single bit.... just can't wait for the final sequel...
my understanding from the architect is the part where he says this happened 5 times already and neo is the 6th... so that lead me thinking everything is part of the program, zion and all that have happened since the first matrix.... so i guess they're all still in the matrix thinking they're out of the matrix... kinda of confusing but at the end, like someone said, when he's in the coma, he's really out of the matrix..... just have to wait for the 3rd one.
The original was great.
The sequel was for me a great dissapointment lacking all the original magic. Poor story line, few surprises and unlike the original predictable in part!
Sorry I saw it
Would rather watch the original again!
Originally Posted by adam
I had a different theory,
Neo (as in the persona, Neo) is generated by the matrix. it's a piece of software loaded into a human body. this explains Keanu Reeves "bad" acting. he's just a robot in flesh. however this time something has been changed (they obviously change the Neo persona with each version of the Matrix.) meaning Neo falls in love with Trinity. Thus he will become fully human and defeat the machines for the first time.
Don't forget, everyone born in the Matrix has plugs in them. we don;t know much about them, but there's probably serious amounts of hardware in them. they are made by the machines, so probably use similar power sources/communication frequencies. if Neo can control his hardware he can interrupt the machines. why wouldn;t he just stop them dead like the bullets if they were still in the matrix?
another point to consider: is the architect telling the truth? it's possible that this is version 6 of the matrix and that zion is repeatedly destroyed. but where did their equipment come from? the nebuchadnezzar was comissioned in 2150 or so, and looks it's age. would the machines really recreate all those ships every time they made a new version of the matrix? i don't think so. either it's matrix in a matrix, or it's still the first version and the architecht is throwing him off course.
oh, and i loved the idea of the keymaker, they just should have called him the key generator
anyone who doesn;t understand computers, will not understand this film. hence the reviewers do not like or understand it.
The movie was a P.O.S.. I've been using computers since C= 64 20 years ago so no 'not understanding computers' has nothing to do with it. Also I was an insanely huge Matrix 1 fan so no not liking 'this type of movie' also has nothing to do with it.
The dialogue, was it written by an 8 year old? Long, boring, pointless.
Injected worthless scenes - French guy, africans dancing, etc.
The entire first hour of the movie save for maybe 5 minutes seemed to be entirely nothing more than space filler. Crap that they had to cram in there to ensure the movie lasted.
As for the holes there are way too many holes such as the Oracle being 'all knowing' yet explained away as a computer program? Hogwash. It was better when you didn't know about the origin since the explaination they gave was rubbish. Same as Smith being able to duplicate himself at will, why then wouldn't he take over every single other 'person' in the matrix instantly with his ability to warp he could easily be the only person left standing yet he only chooses to do this during a fight scene and on a small scale? Silly.
Neo comes off sounding like a whiny little girl full of emotion from the opening sequence? Lame. He was a tough guy in M1 and now that he has absolute power suddenly he's all emotional and soft? I don't think so. Same problem with Trinity she was silent & hard and fine in M1 then in M2 she is suddenly the loving female, plus she's got way too many wrinkles now to be as sexy.
Anyways the first movie was great. It had a deep meaning. It was tight. It was action. The 2nd movie is a pathetic joke and perhaps the biggest let down I've ever had going to a theatre. I walked out after 1 hour & 20 minutes because frankly I wanted to sleep more than I wanted to watch the movie. Talk about borefest. Dissapointing to say the least.
Originally Posted by Xtasy2002His name was MackemX
What kind of a man are you? The guy is unconscious in a coma and you don't have the guts to kiss his girlfriend?
Originally Posted by Conquest10
You think because a part of a movie is good that this makes the entire movie good? It's like me wrapping up 1/2 of an ice cream sandwich with another 1/2 being maggot infested poop. Would you still call the sandwich a delicious dessert? Would you eat it? I didn't think so.
I look at it this way: The Matrix is quite possibly one of the best movies of all time. They had a real opportunity to do something amazing here with the sequel. Like Terminator 1 and Terminator 2 or (original) Star Wars 1, 2, 3 you get the point. Instead they made this piece of garbage that doesn't match up and in effect some of that rubs off on the original now since M1 will be associated in the future with the trash that is M2, etc.
This has to be one of the best reviews of this movie I've seen yet:
Date: 24 May 2003
Summary: I hope this sequel is an illusion
Expanding on bulls*it mythology can be a dangerous enterprise. The original Matrix merely hinted at the underlying metaphysical questions posed by its premise. In doing so it invited the comic book literate but you also suspect girlfriendless fan base to posit questions about the film's existential ideas. However this bloated and overwritten middle installment attempts to shade in these areas with diasterous effect. Like Yoda on speed, the characters in this film spout third rate philiosphy like there entire conception of English had been based on the Empire Strikes Back and those little bits of paper you get in fortune cookies. Where the original film kept it tight and merely alluded to the backstory, the backstory we discover in Reloaded (much like the Star Wars prequal trilogy) is alot more interesting in our imagination than it is when its all explained. It would help if any of it made much sense but most of the dialogue is seemingly written with a view to inviting dense speculation and analysis from the internet community and thus inbueing the material with a depth it doesn't posess. This is a film that requires an editor. Its much too long, with some scenes dragging on while you check your watch. With pretensions of profundity the characters sepculate about Neo's origins, the nature of existence, their function in the universe and so on. However, the Warchowski's aren't Neitschze or Chomsky and frankly, should leave this kind of crap to genuine thinkers. People are going to this movie to see action and martial arts and thats what they should have concentrated on. Reloaded delivers here of course, but although its all more elaborate than before, its also less impressive simply becuase most of it seems dropped into the narrative for no reason. New characters are introduced but have little to do except turn up and do the obligitory fighting. This is a dissapointing sequel, too long to be statisfying, not self-contained enough to stand on its own without Revolutions and too concerned with adding layers of shallow intellectualism to its status as pop-cultural myth to be engaging to its auidence. As with Star Wars, its far more fun when the audience fill in the details- when the filmmakers do it they lose the simplicity that made the original enjoyable in the first place. For these reasons alone the Matrix Reloaded is like weaking in the real world having experianced the joy of a computer generated illusion. You'll want to take a pill, forget about all this and return to the original as soon as possible.
I'd say that's a bad review, especially the end. of course it's like waking in the real world, that's the whole point! this is what cypher did in the first film. he didn't like the real world so he opted to go back to the matrix. there's no way this film could be anything but a deluge of confusing information and a set up for the final conflict.
as for the comments on the oracle, if we take the architechts words as true, everything the oracle says to people is to encourage them to live out the same revolution. she would in the eyes of the people of zion be all knowing. until of course the one confronts the architecht, and then the truth is revealed. as for the comments by xtasy, the computer related plot i was talking about happens at the end of the film. you walked out before it. and as for criticising the story with out seeing it all (which no -one can really do before they've seen revolutions) is plain dumb. what if you read the old testament of the bible, you'd go "damn that god guy is evil! no way am i worshipping him!" because all the friendly men loving each other stuff happens in the new testament. don't criticise that which you don't understand.
as for the dialogue, long winded, yes. but has been bought up in this thread, this way of thinking although having existed for thousands of years is not known by everyone in todays pop culture. they're simply trying to bring these ideas forward. presumably they're also relevant. for instance, the rambling about control and choice was relevant, Neo had to make a choice which the machines control, even though he has all the power.
You absolutely cannot criticize Reloaded if you didn't even watch up to the architect scene. Without that scene the movie does not make sense. Its like watching Citizen Cain and skipping the sled scene. The explanation of the Oracle makes perfect sense and is really the only possible explanation, but not unless you get the rest of the story from the architect.
The Oracle performs a very particular and specialized role for the machines. She couldn't be anything but a program.
As far as Smith, you should have finished watching the movie. He replicates himself even more. Smith undoubtedly has a particular motivation for what he is doing, and you are definitely not supposed to find out what until Revelations. He does not want to kill Neo, he wants to use him. I don't see how you can question his motives when they are intentionally left unknown.
As far as the love aspect and the character changes of Neo and Trinity, you DEFINITELY should have finished the movie. This is completely explained. The love between them is the only thing keeping the machines from winning. Every cycle Neo chooses his love for Trinity over saving the human race, at the expense of being imprisoned. This is the only thing keeping the Matrix from being perfected and totally enslaving humans once and for all. Once you see the architect scene it completely changes everything. You realize that everything that happened in the first Matrix was basically fake. They never left the Matrix...ever. While the entire first matrix was going on, Neo, Trinity, Morpheous, all of them were still sitting in pods somewhere hooked up to the Matrix. They just thought they were free. Now if that isn't a major revelation than I don't know what is. I don't see how people can criticize this movie for lacking a plot. A lot more happens in Reloaded than in the first Matrix.
This all makes perfect sense, and in my opinion, understanding all this is necessary to enjoy the movie. But since you walked out half way through it, you have no idea what I am talking about.
You are free to love or hate any movie, but you have to watch it first.
So now with all the speculation going on and theories, Reloaded seems to bring us to somewhere we need to get to: the Matrix is destroyed and humans live in the new harsh reality that Earth as they knew it within the Matrix is totally scorched on the surface. Like in the Animatrix cartoons. Or humans come to the determination that they and the Matrix AI must co-exist in order to survive.
Here's the reason: I saw the first Matrix again. And I am amazed at the clues given that now seem obvious to me. If you guys did see the 1st one, see it again and tell what you think about what I saw in it.
1. There is a "real world" and its always represented in both movies, look carefully, with a tint of blue, and alot of dirty, old machinery. When inside the Matrix, there is a tint of green everywhere. Look for the color green. Even the code of the Matrix is always green and the "real world" is not. Like in the Neb, the consoles were blue and dirty, but in the center, the Matrix screens were green.
More proof of the "real world". Tank and his brother were natural born on Earth, they had no machine parts like Neo and the others. Also, most ppl in Zion had no implants either.
2. Agent Smith. When he takes the earpiece off and kicks the two other agents out the room, Smith tells Morpheus how sick and disgusted he is with humans that refuse to be subordinate. He even says something to the effect that its his 4th or 5th time doing this and he wants out. What the heck, Smith himself wants out, what does this mean. He needs Morpheus to give him the Zion codes first to do as he wants. He tells us that the Matrix will have no purpose for him anymore if the codes are not given to him, and we all know we all have a purpose. Thats what Smith said. Foreshadowing. But it too has double meanings as well. With what purpose does everyone really serve and to what end.
3. AI - artificial intelligence machines take over the human race sometime in the 21st century. Morpheus tells Neo this in the AI simulations for training him to see his real potential. Humans destroyed the atmosphere first to stop the machines from using the sun as an energy source, so guess maybe this is also when the first Matrix was made. Then we see real pictures of destroyed cities on the surface, also in color blue. The Neb was built in 2026 or something like that. Again used to reinforce that the struggle in fact started in the 21st century.
Theory again to what will need to happen to get us to Revolutions where humans and machines will revolt. Smith is an AI that now too has rejected the Matrix and sees Neo and humans as a key for him to stay self-preserved, just as the machines first did with the humans. Hence, the final movie title Revolutions. Its a free your mind revolution for both Smith and other AI's like him and also for humans. They must all decide now how to live, can they co-exist or will only one stand in the end?
So the last part was theory again, but the 3 points above were from the first Matrix, if someone saw something more from the first one, please share. I know its been awhile, but with animatrix out now on dvd, its sparked renewed interest in Reloaded.
Edited - Craig No WarezLaserdiscs are cool, but laserdiscs on DVD-Rs are cooler.
Haven't had chance to see it in cinema, was contemplating catching the end of the run out. After being lent a bootleg VCD and skipping thru, not so sure any more. Will probably just watch the disc to fill in the story - sometime - but somehow i managed to jump directly into every major fight/action/CG scene (hmm, they're very evenly spaced - i skipped by time). A good attempt at visual spectacle, but overall, not that impressed, and there were just too many dumb holes in it. Such as whoever built the matrix supposing that a heavy police cruiser could easily run down a sports bike (mind you the whole chase scene confused me and seemed a bit blah - probably needs the whole story behind it to make total sense). Agent fight... cool but it didn't make me cream my pants like everyone said it would. And the quality of CG, such as when Neo flies, generally looking more 1983 than 2003. Bleh. Think I can survive without seeing that stuff recreated on a big screen with surround sound, it looks ropey enough in mono on the TV... no desire to remove the digital vaseline from the lens.
Maybe when the third one comes out and all three get shown in one long "numb-ass" marathon.-= She sez there's ants in the carpet, dirty little monsters! =-
Back after a long time away, mainly because I now need to start making up vidcapped DVDRs for work and I haven't a clue where to start any more!