Please reply as a personal favor to me!!

[drewson99]

I have posted about this but (and I don't believe nobody else has had this problem) nobody EVER responds.

When I xfer my D8 tapes via firewire/1394 to my HD, the audio gradually loses synch (off by a few seconds by the end of a 1 hour tape). A month ago this was not the case, then I started a new project and now I have the issue.

I have tried:

--DVIO (my old favorite which has now stabbed me in the back)
--Ulead Video Studio (only caps type 1 no matter what I change the settings to)
--Scenalyser Live (worked once then had the same synch issues everything else did)

then, a friend told me about Windows Movie Maker, and I was so desperate I actually upgraded one of my computers to XP so I could use it, thinking that 1st party stuff might not have this problem:

--Windows Movie Maker (caps in Type 1)

I even tried to use the AVI 1 to AVI 2 converter, but it gives me blocks of white noise in the middle randomly (plus I would rather not have the extra step)

I need type 2 because I need to edit in VirtualDub.

This problem is as simple as any consumer trying to put his home movies onto his computer/DVD, so I KNOW SOMEBODY ELSE HAS HAD THIS PROBLEM.

Please any info is appreciated. I answer newbie questions (and some more advanced) almost daily here, I have put in my time, someone do me a favor please.

Andy

[tjtoed]

It might be that your camcorder needs cleaning.

I have a JVC Digital Comcorder and noticed some horrible transfers where the sound and video was all jacked up. I took it into Best Buy and sure enough the heads were filthy (caused by the playback to capture). They sent it off for cleaning and not it works perfectly.

Also - do you reuse tapes? If so this might also be your problem. When I received my JVC back, there was a note to not reuse tapes as this could cause some problems too...

Hope this helps.

PS - If you decide to get your heads cleaned, DO NOT buy one of those head cleaners. They mess it up even worse.

[StudeBarc]

drewson99,

I currently draw in miniDV via firewire, but I have not had an audio sync issue of this nature. It may be totally off beam but I wonder whether you have your camera set for 12bit or 16bit audio. If set for 12 bit this may have some bearing on the exercise. The information from firewire is purely digital and cannot be out of sync at that point. However perhaps in the editing and playback phases some software dislikes 12bit audio?

For conversion of all DV file types perhaps try "Canopus DV file converter", I believe it's free and a google search will reveal. Until recently I applied the Canopus ref avi conversion then ran through virtual dub. I now use the Main Concept DV codec as a wrapper and the conversion is not necessary.

Sorry if none of this helps, i'm sure there are more experienced people in this forum who could offer opinions to you.

Regards
Studebarc.

[drewson99]

bless you gentlemen, I thought I was blacklisted or something...

@tjtoed

It isn't the sound/video quality that is bad, it is the synch. I have a barely used Sony D8 VCR (GV-D800) - to put it bluntly, it ain't the heads, but thanks for the input, any info is better than none.

@StudeBarc

astute user you are, I too thought about the 12/16bit setting, but the other way around. I am recording at 16, and thought maybe 12 was "better" - now I am thinking this is not the issue. I am using MainConcept, but not Canopus. Maybe I should add Canopus to the mix?

I am this close to buying an ADVC100 just so I have an 800 # to call if I still have probs, BUT I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO!

thanks all, and keep 'em comin if you got 'em.

Andy

[ptmurphy]

I had the exact problem. Here is what I found out through much research and trials.

My audio and video were getting out of sync at the "white" areas of the tape. Meaning, where there is snow on the tape. Every time that the capture saw the "snow", it was getting just a little out of sync. So, by the end of the tape, I might be .5 to 1 second out of sync.

I corrected the problem by capturing the tape in increments instead of all at once. This is actually a real pain, since you sort of have to watch the capture and stop it when you see the snow. Then re-start, capturing to a new file. Then during authouring, re-join the clips, cutting out the small bits of "noise" at the beginning/end of each clip.

This procedure has completely cured my sycn problems. YMMV.

Good luck,

Phillip

[drewson99]

that makes sense when taking into consideration the nature of frame transfer and the way DV xfer s/w ignores non-recorded "frames" but my tapes are solid 1 hour clips, no breaks at all.

but I thank you profusely for the input, sooner or later we will hit the nail on the head, and when it happens, I will post a guide, as it seems a common problem.

Andy

[arcorob]

Okay, here is some help.

First, try a few experiments

Dub the tape out to VHS via the cables. Does that go out of sync ? If it does, the problem is your camera and the TIME BASE CORRECTOR.

Now if the DUB to VHS works perfect it still doesn't let the camera off the hook. But for now say it does.

Firewire should not have AUDIO sync issues since you are not using a SOUND card to capture. If you were, slight differences in the buffering, etc on the sound card could cause that. It is not uncommon with ANALOG captures.

Now ulead has some issues, and so do others but someone pointed out a good tool here. DVIO. It is a staight NO FRILLS capture tool (free) that you give the INPUT , OUTPUT, start the camera and go. Capture the tape.

If you still have the issue I would suspect the tapes. I recently had a issue with BRAND NEW SONY NTSC HI METAL , top of the line tapes. I was getting stuttering audio, garbled, kind of like the movie was in slow mo but the sound in fast motion. The only way I finally knew it was the tapes was I tried them in different camera's, played them back ON The camera completely and found it was the tape.

Lastly, make sure you are PLUGGED IN when capturing, not in BATTERY mode. You may want to try a TRIAL version of SONIC FOUNDRY video factory. If it captures okay, worth the 59 bucks after the trial.

Hope this helps.

[dun4cheap]

Well it sounds like something is bottleknecking. Either Cache problem with the motherboard, transfer problem on the IDE bus, or transfer problem with you drives. I know Shuttle boards have delay problems, I was able to fix any and all of my sync problems moving to a quality mother board. These are just a few items to check.

[drewson99]

well, I will try the VHS thing but only because it appeals to my pseudo-scientific anal video personality.

I am pretty sure that is not it though because the problem has occurred suddenly - I just did 50+ tapes a couple weeks ago and have not changed anything about my computer.

also, the problem occurs on both my D8 devices, a Camcorder and the VCR I mentioned above, so unless BOTH timebase correctors went on the same day, that isn't it either.

DVIO is the program I was using originally. I love that program. It has defied me with this problem.

keep 'em coming if you vcdhelp gurus can think of something that I haven't, and I'll give the VCR test a try (to VHS)

Andy

what a response! - thanks

[drewson99]

Well it sounds like something is bottleknecking. Either Cache problem with the motherboard, transfer problem on the IDE bus, or transfer problem with you drives. I know Shuttle boards have delay problems, I was able to fix any and all of my sync problems moving to a quality mother board. These are just a few items to check.

yeah, in the middle of these probs, I decided I needed a new HD, and I damaged my MOBO, now I have a brand new one (nicer than the one that worked great a couple weeks ago) and have upgraded to DDR RAM. My hardware has only gotten better since this prob occurred.

[dun4cheap]

What might seem better may not be. Just out of curiosity what brand motherboards did you switch to and from. Did you possibly damage the drive. Is it running a promise raid (Can Have Problems). Maybe a bios update may help, but I suspect a hardware problem for sure, maybe as simple as an updated bios or driver is needed. If its an Intel board make sure your running the application accelerator. Most problems I have seen as far as delay have been VIA chipset boards, so I try to stay away from them on my capturing system.

Had to run before I finished.

Other possible problems, Video Card Is sharing same IRQ as SoundCard, I have seen this alot especially with SB Live! cards although I thought you said you were using firewire which should not have any effect. I would definately look for a bus problem or timeing problem from the MB. Do you have busmaster enabled, DMA transfers enabled all the basic things.

[arcorob]

I am think that there is a 70% chance it is the tapes.

I recently went through a similar issue. Brand new camera's, new Firewire, etc etc. Tore my machine apart, software, etc. After two weeks, a fight with Hitachi and several others, I found a BAD tape lot ...5 of 10 had sections ..could be 10 minutes in or 55 but when it went bad it was VERY difficult to believe.

Let me know as I am CURIOUS.

[drewson99]

KT4V MOBO and the rest is in the Comp specs (the specs on the left of the semi-colon, that is the PC i am using for this - although the prob occurs on both my boxes, diff MOBO, CPU, RAM etc)

it also happens on all 5 of my HDs (5 physical drives)

No RAID.

Sorry, it is not the tapes, I am using brand new Sony HMP tapes and a few HME too (the expensive ones)

these are the only tapes I have ever used in this D8 VCR since it was bought, all new (I bought 4 cases when i got the VCR)

HERE'S A QUESTION: what is the default (unchangeable in DVIO, so this is kind of a dumb tangent since this worked a couple of weeks ago) Hz setting for the 16bit audio xfer in DVIO. could that cause a problem if it changed somehow?

could some codec install or problem cause this kind of thing to change?

Andy

[dun4cheap]

Well I have never known MSI to make great boards especially when the pci bus is under heavy usage. My first question is what pci slot is the firewire card plugged into? I would try and plug it into the first port closest to the CPU, unless that port shares IRQ's with the video card.


I don't suspect the tapes, this is a true bottlekneck, have you tried defragging the drives. They are 7200rpm ata 100/133 2meg or 8 meg buffers? Are you running the newest Hyperion 4in1 drivers?

[drewson99]

they are all Western Digital 7200/8meg drives.

the FW card is in the center, 2nd from the top - but I can't accept that it is the quality of the board, as this was working fine for me a couple of weeks ago on a lesser MOBO (same brand, just cheaper, less PCI, only 2 RAM bays, no DDR)

now look: I really don't want to cause any kind of atrophy in this thread, which I have seen many times before when somebody finds a work-around, but...

I have gotten Premiere to cap the files with perfect synch.

But why must I use several-hundred dollar / hundred MB software to do what FREE/32kb DVIO was doing for me a couple of weeks ago?

Andy

[dun4cheap]

Are you transfering it in DV mode or compressing it in realtime to an MPG compression? I usually capture from my DV into DV AVI format, then convert it to mpg2 using Ulead Video Studio 5 or Arcsoft ShowBiz without problems.Try using a different codec to see if the problem reprorduces.

[drewson99]

no compression at all.

here's a new problem: Premiere stops "capturing" the frames in the 27000 range (about 15 mins)

the resultant AVI is fine, playable, etc, but why does it do this? I have no limit set.

and I have used a couple different codecs, just the ones I always used though (when the process was working)

[dun4cheap]

Which OS and file system are you using? NTFS, XP, NT, 98, ME. 15 minutes sounds like a 4gig limitation.

[drewson99]

all that info is in my computer details - it is not that problem.

[wwaag]

Andy. Interesting thread.

I have a Sony GV-D200. I think it's basically the same as the GV-D800, except no LCD monitor. I really like it. I've used it for "playback" of old 8/Hi8 tapes with no problems (at least to date). I also use it to record my DV projects for archiving. I haven't "recaptured" these saved tapes, so I don't know if a problem exists.

HOWEVER, when used in the "pass-through" mode, it loses synch, just like you describe, at roughly 45 min-1 hr into the capture. By the end of a 2 hr movie, its really "unwatchable". I posted my "problem" a couple of weeks ago and only had one response--use Type 1 rather than Type 2 DV, which would then require a conversion once captured to be used in Premiere,Vdub, or Avisynth.

I also have an ADVC-100 which works perfectly in terms of "synch". For some of my laserdiscs, I wanted to use the Sony since the resulting colors were less saturated and thus less prone to noise. However, given the sync problem, I decided to stick with the Canopus.

My suspicion, based on my experience and some of the posts I've read, is that it's a problem with the Sony, which is really upsetting given the cost of these units. Think I'll try "re-capping" one of my saved projects to see if I have the same problem.

If you find a solution, please post.

[arcorob]

You said

"Sorry, it is not the tapes, I am using brand new Sony HMP tapes and a few HME too (the expensive ones)"

How do you know ? did you try what I said ? If so , great. But my tapes with the issue were SONY HMP (Hi_Metal Particle, teh expensice ones ! ) and at least 60% of a batch of 10 were bad. It was the tapes for sure. So bad an experience I switched to TDK's which I feel are more reliable anyway.

By the way, did I miss something ? Are you using DIGITAL passthru and not direct from tape ? If so, Sony HAS BUGS. I have a ticket open on that now myself. My workaround is to RECORD to the digital tape, then firewire it in. Its an extras step, but flawless. Not so the digital passthru.

[Rich927]

I record my VHS tapes directly to my DV corder then transfer via firewire. I did discover problems when I record with just the DV corder using it's battery only. Read the manual. It said when recording from a VCR to the camcorder, have the camcorder's power supply connected. I did this. Problem solved. Sony rep also told me. not to record to a new tape but stripe it first so a "valid" TBC will be laid down. Also said whenever doing any kind of transfer, use the power supply.