Am I stupid, or do I just act that way?

[txpharoah]

Kinda my entire point txpharoah, much earlier, although I can't see why an AIW is required.Mine is a standard Radeon ViVo 64mb DDR and without doubt, for the money, is the best peice of hardware I ever bought.W.

Well, I'm aware at issues with the Vivo, VE, and 128 Pro cards, to name a few, that I even experienced myself when capturing and trying to get ATI drivers to function properly. I tend to avoid the cheaper ATI capture cards, but if you say that exact card works, I'll take your word for it. Your opinions are normally pretty decent.

[Will Hay]

Kinda my entire point txpharoah, much earlier, although I can't see why an AIW is required.Mine is a standard Radeon ViVo 64mb DDR and without doubt, for the money, is the best peice of hardware I ever bought.W.

Well, I'm aware at issues with the Vivo, VE, and 128 Pro cards, to name a few, that I even experienced myself when capturing and trying to get ATI drivers to function properly. I tend to avoid the cheaper ATI capture cards, but if you say that exact card works, I'll take your word for it. Your opinions are normally pretty decent.

The chap I got to know over at MURC after I upgraded my G400 bought the same card as me, and he has issues of which you speak.
It was through his recommendation I bought the card in the first place.
I would never buy anything other than ATI now but I guess with the ViVo...
...you could say I'm blessed
WH

[arcorob]

You know, when I posted I just knew that some folks who self-grandize would never get the hint, that with any knowledge they MIGHT (I use the term loosely) have, is lost in their own vanity.

You are not the only one in the busienss nor the only one who has done this for years. Shall I get out the betamax machines to show you ? Unlike you I don't have to boast.

Yes, I do disaster recovery. I was also a TECH guru for 21 years and probably sold you your first pc so don't come off holier than thou. I build PC's for the folks who WORK on PC's.

I have an ATI AIW 128 Pro that runs prefectly, and has its place and WILL NEVER EVER outstrip the 1394 card on my machine

It does not matter. The subject was to help this poor fellow out and all that has come out is bias and confusion couched in "I AM AN EXPERT, HEAR ME ROAR". Very sad.

Maybe you want to tell the guy if he uses an ATI card and a sound card, he will want to use a tool like Virtualdub as ATI software is prone to
SYNC ISSUES
Non-compliant MPEG creation
Various other bugs

Or did you bother to check beyond your own little world ?

Have fun at Blockbuster. The counters very busy now that school is out for the day.

[Will Hay]

LOL
I wouldn't dream of using the ATI software for capture, my intial tests lasted about sixty-two seconds.
I've always used Virtualdub for capture
Maybe these are the bugs with my card but who gives a shit, if you can pay £30, sorry $45 for a card which produces the results it does for the price then great, yes?
I'm a Quantity Surveyor, I've worked in construction all my adult life and envisage I always will.
I'll never work in computer's and proclaim myself an expert so perhaps my opinion is by far the most authorative
WH.

[bokkasrealm]

Honest to goodness, if you want the easiest setup for transferring video to VCD or DVD, buy a cheaper DV camera with analog inputs. Then buy a 15$ firewire card from compgeeks or somewhere else and dub it in with free programs. I got a Canon ZR40 just for this purpose for my videotapes, it couldnt be any easier than this method and the ZR40 was clearanced out at Best Buy for $350.

I have tried ATI cards, they look good but the frames do skip. This was always the main problem with the 2 ATI cards I owned. I have a 2.4 Pentium system too!

I have also had a Dazzle DV Bridge. It was very sporatic when it worked at all. I still havent sold it seeing that I cant get most of my money back on it.

I have heard nothing but good about the Canopus products. I say go with this method if you cant take the camcorder method. But once again, the camcorder method is easy as pie and no dropped frames.

[MOVIEGEEK]

frankandjoan,
It sounds like you're on a budget(aren't we all)and you have an analog camcorder so I suggest the AVerDVD package(includes neoDVD),it's an analog PCI card but you can capture up to 720x480.Firewire is better but it's useless with your camcorder.
http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=296679&pfp=BROWSE

[txpharoah]

You are not the only one in the busienss nor the only one who has done this for years. Shall I get out the betamax machines to show you ? Unlike you I don't have to boast.

Boasting? No. Qualifications? Yes. I like to make it known that I'm not just some kid spouting from his dorm room (because this site has too many of those already).

I have an ATI AIW 128 Pro that runs prefectly, and has its place and WILL NEVER EVER outstrip the 1394 card on my machine

As stated, known issues on ATI 128 Pro cards. Get a better one.

Three Little Pigs? You're building your house with sticks. I said BRICKS, damn it, if you want to make it act like bricks.

Maybe you want to tell the guy if he uses an ATI card and a sound card, he will want to use a tool like Virtualdub as ATI software is prone to SYNC ISSUES Non-compliant MPEG creation Various other bugs

Ridiculous. If you get a ATI RADEON ALL IN WONDER (7200, 7500, 85000, 9700) that should not be the case. And use the updated software from ATI.com that is easy to find/download. ATI MMC 7.7 and the April 2003 Catalyst/WMD/CP drivers are fine. Earlier software does have issues. Upgrade (free).

Or did you bother to check beyond your own little world ? Have fun at Blockbuster. The counters very busy now that school is out for the day.

My world is video. Where else should I check? Inside a refrigerator? And that last comment is just about what I would expect from a person that only knows how to listen to his own comments.

I hear yours. Canopus, DV AVI is great. Fine. Let the original poster see for himself. Buy them both, and take one back. I told him my opinion: the DV are crap, and many others in the industry hold the same opinion. (Three Little Pigs analogy? Did you miss that?)

But I distinctly remember him not liking previous DV devices, and looking for another alternative, not to mention DV AVI IS the lowest creature on the food chain for capturing. I gave him a new option: ATI All In Wonder. I even gave info about Matrox, the real home card contenders. Bet you never used those either, huh?

BTW, the computer captures analog. So does your DV AVI device. That is the source: analog. The end product from the cards is digital. You seem to forget that. Just because you have a DV device does not make the source magically digital. The DV AVI capture/bridge is nice and all, but not as cooperative or as good as the internal devices available. Plus you are limited to firewire speeds, not able to boost quality/speed to the max as with IDE (DMA) transfers. And no option to MPEG capture. Now you must take your AVI and then wait 5-15 hours depending on your software for it to convert to MPEG2. Hope he doesn't want to use the computer for anything else.

[txpharoah]

Honest to goodness, if you want the easiest setup for transferring video to VCD or DVD, buy a cheaper DV camera with analog inputs. Then buy a 15$ firewire card from compgeeks or somewhere else and dub it in with free programs. I got a Canon ZR40 just for this purpose for my videotapes, it couldnt be any easier than this method and the ZR40 was clearanced out at Best Buy for $350. I have tried ATI cards, they look good but the frames do skip. This was always the main problem with the 2 ATI cards I owned. I have a 2.4 Pentium system too! I have also had a Dazzle DV Bridge. It was very sporatic when it worked at all. I still havent sold it seeing that I cant get most of my money back on it. I have heard nothing but good about the Canopus products. I say go with this method if you cant take the camcorder method. But once again, the camcorder method is easy as pie and no dropped frames.

If you want to go cheap, this is fine. Two products for the price of one, new camera, so-so capture devices. It can provide results, but again, only DV AVI, and then you get to wait a while for it to convert to MPEG2 (hours and hours).

frankandjoan,
It sounds like you're on a budget(aren't we all)and you have an analog camcorder so I suggest the AVerDVD package(includes neoDVD),it's an analog PCI card but you can capture up to 720x480.Firewire is better but it's useless with your camcorder.
http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=296679&pfp=BROWSE

AverDVD is working back down to the quality and reliability of Dazzle.

[frankandjoan]

Huge factor in this debate: Domestic Politics!!!! I don't have to pry any more money from the family bank account to get the ATI AIW board. It looks to be just a little cheaper then the Dazzle I am returning, even at full retail.

I'm gathering that EVERYONE LOVES the Canopus unit, and that counts for a lot. Tex claims that the ATI can work perfectly. if I do everything just right. Silky backs him up. I figure if I can make it work, and even get high quality if I do things right and not have to spend any more money, that sounds like the perfect answer to my original criteria. Basically, to continue in this hobby, maybe finally have some success, and not have to spend a lot more money

Guess the ATI All in Wonder wins out. I really appreciate all the help, it has been fascinating and educational. No hard feelings, y'all, a passionate airing of views can be fun. I certainly enjoyed it.

[MachineMan]

Its simple, Get the ATI, you only need analog input anyway. Dazzle sucks, I know becuase I returned mine last year. Firewire is great only if you have a digital camcorder and you don't so get the ATI. You can also use the ATI to output back to VHS recorder.

[TBoneit]

I'll throw in my two cents...

I have a ATI All-In-Wonder card ...

For analog capture i use the ADVC 100 from canopus

The ATI results are OK.. I have it only for TV using the Tuner....

For my best DVD results I use the Canopus, a bitrate calulator from this site, and CCE Basic in two pass mode to convert to DVD format.

The results this way blow away the ATI ones I did before I got the Canopus. They were OK, but... I use the canpus when quality counts.

I've used different capture methods, PCI Cards, ATI AIW, USB devices etc...

The ADVC 100 beats em all.

My personal experience, I wish I'd found this site earlier, I could have saved some decent amounts of money.

Cheers & Good Luck
Roger T

[Will Hay]

I'm gathering that EVERYONE LOVES the Canopus unit, and that counts for a lot. Tex claims that the ATI can work perfectly. if I do everything just right. Silky backs him up. I figure if I can make it work, and even get high quality if I do things right and not have to spend any more money, that sounds like the perfect answer to my original criteria.

Yep, coming from me, a novice like yourself, I think the ATI is the best bet, although I never capture directly to mpeg2 (I appreciate you want to output to mpeg1/vcd) as I don't feel my card is man enough, although I do concede I have a budget ATI card
I get the impression txpharoah feels the ATI AIW (7200, 7500, 8500 or 9700) is admirable at mpeg1 & 2 capture, something my low-end ATI card fails at miserably.
I really do go the long way round:
720 x 576 avi capture from analogue via Virtualdub using the PicVideo codec at quality 19, editing with Pinnacle Studio 8, encoding with TMPGEnc at 8000VBR and authoring with either Pinancle or Ulead Movie Factory 1.0.
Considering the quality of my VHS-C tapes I'm delighted with the results, but I'd like to use the PC as a regular VCR, and record regular TV shows I can immediately output to dvd (or vcd in your case) rather than encode and edit.
I think I'm off to ebay UK to check out the AIW's now!
A couple of final points, I suggest you look at SVCD rather than VCD Frank (the quality is better) and txpharoah, I was under the impression you shouldn't really edit mpeg's, that any editing with Adobe, Ulead, Pinancle etc should be done before encoding, is this not the case?
Surely if Frank captures to mpeg and then edit's, isn't he going to have to encode again (or have I missed the point)?
Will

[TBoneit]

And another important point if sound quality is important, the ATI captures sound through your sound card where it is more likely to pick up noise from the hardware in the case.

The captures I did with a Soundblaster Live 5.1 always had a background noise compared to the Canopus.

I suspect that it was getting noise from
a. the data flowing over the PCI bus.
b. noise being picked up from the rf generated inside the case by the MB, and any cards that have a oscillator on them.

With the Canopus I never hear background noise on silent passages.

Since I transfer a lot of music that is important to me.

Cheers

[Bondiablo]

There's nothing simpler to get set up and working properly and consistantly than the Canopus ADVC-100 and there is plenty of good cheap and even free software available that is very easy to use and completely reliable. If you want more headaches get the AIW and have fun dealing with dropped frames, audio/video sync problems and either poor quality MPEG captures or huge file sizes with uncompressed AVI or huffy. If you could get the AIW and your soundcard working absolutely perfectly, and it's highly unlikely that would ever happen and certainly not reliable, you would still need to capture to uncompressed AVI or huffy to get even slightly better quality which in the end wouldn't even make for a perceptible difference.

The only solution for anywhere near the price that might be even better would be buy a new (or not so new) DV cam, then all you need is the firewire card.

[Will Hay]

If you want more headaches get the AIW and have fun dealing with dropped frames, audio/video sync problems and either poor quality MPEG captures or huge file sizes with uncompressed AVI or huffy. If you could get the AIW and your soundcard working absolutely perfectly, and it's highly unlikely that would ever happen and certainly not reliable...The only solution for anywhere near the price that might be even better would be buy a new (or not so new) DV cam, then all you need is the firewire card.

Have you even read any of this thread?
Price is a major factor in this post, hence the suggestions for the ATI AIW.
W.

[hakuba]

frankandjoan, been there done that,like you dropped plenty of $$$.
the DAC100 is what I went with and a $19 firewire card. Works great and priemire 6.5 can capture with it althought I use Scenanalyzer for captures.
one nice thing is I can also go out to analog, to tape with it.
DAC100 or Canopus unit will work great with almost all video apps even though you are using an analog camera. My camera is analog also.

[Bondiablo]

Have you even read any of this thread?
Price is a major factor in this post, hence the suggestions for the ATI AIW.
W.

Yes, I read the entire tread including Tx' endless rants which seem to be mostly concerned with the fact the ADVC doesn't "do" as much as the AWI because it doesn't do MPEG conversion. Frank's main concern seemed to be getting something he could have setup and working properly without any more frustration (something he's unlikely to get with the AIW), money was secondary and he's getting $200 back for the lastest dazzle which will almost pay for the ADVC.

[txpharoah]

Just to clarify...

I mostly convert straight to MPEG2 from VHS/SVHS sources. I then dump to DVD after using TMPGenc to quickly fix the field order (transcode that seems to be fairly lossless, though probably not perfect). I sometimes grab I-frame only MPEG2 and edit, but not often. That would be a rare time I'd grab AVI. At home I rarely capture AVI (I do enough of that at work as we still shoot lots of SVHS and Betacam).

So yes, I may edit MPEG2, but not often. If I convert home movies or tv shows, I use the CUT/JOIN method to splice the good parts of the file out. Then rejoin the good pieces in TMPGenc. That's if I even need to cut anything out. I try to shoot good video from the start, just like I'd like it to be in the end.

[txpharoah]

you could use software that does MPEG conversion on the fly and get just as crappy results as you'll get capturing to MPEG with the AIW.

Have you even used an ATI AIW card before making such ridiculous statements? A software encoder will make crap most of the time. The ATI cards have hardware to assist in MPEG encoding.

AVI is for editing. The original poster wants to convert, not edit, at least as his posts have suggested to date. If he wants to do lots of fancy editing, I'll retract this one sentence.

MPEG2 is the format of DVD. If he does not want to edit all day long, and just dump movies to DVD, he can cut out all the unneeded steps and just get it over with, as converting AVI to MPEG is not going to magically make it better quality. AVI is a middle-man format for editing. Period. It serves no other function in this world.

[Bondiablo]

He said he's using it for home movies so it seems likely he'll be doing some editing. And what bitrate do you have to use to get decent quality realtime MPEG captures out of the AIW, 8000kps, whichs gives you what, a little over an hour per DVD?

[txpharoah]

Anywhere from 4.8 MB/S to 8.0 MB/S which can give anywhere from 1-3 hours depending. The DVD5 disc was made for about 2 hours of video. Squeezing more was never intended, though it can be done at sacrificed quality.

Most people transfer video. Very few edit.

[andkiich]

I've only been doing video capture and DVD authoring for a few months, but most of my success has come via the ATI AIW 7500. I've tried the Dazzle stuff and some firewire offerings, but they just didn't seem to be as smooth or easy to use as the ATI stuff.

I don't use any of the software that comes with the card for capture, but who really does.

The things that txpharoah says seem to make sense to me and he didn't come off as arrogant to me, for what my 2 cents are worth.

[frankandjoan]

Arrogant is a strong word, and intentionally inflammatory, as well He has a strong opinion, but that is not a problem for me. Last night, I went online and ordered an ATI All in Wonder 7500, so obviously, his opinion, (and domestic politics vs. pricing) carried the day. I learned a whole lot from this discussion, and I have been logging on pretty regularly now. I have a lot to learn, but I’m in the right place.

By the way, I intend to do a lot of editing of my vacation videos. I don't want to sound arrogant myself, but it is a pet peeve of mine when people presume that you might be entertained by their unpolished vacation experiences.

We try to present our vacations in as entertaining way as possible, complete with a themed storyline, soundtrack, narration, and post-production filming in the basement studio to tie it all together. Although we have never gotten one done, we have several projects in various stages of completion.

I go on the theory that our conciousness only has two frames of reference. It has whatever is happening right this instant, and it has a rich file of memories. My thrust with this hobby is to maximize the memories.