VCD Hybrid

[newzki]

I'm trying to figure out a way to create a hybrid CD that contains a VCD movie and also a Director presentation for both PC and Mac. I'm successful with 2 out of 3, but not all. Is there a way to do this on a PC or Mac? If there was a way to copy the VCD folder structure and just add it to a Hybrid project, things would be so much easier. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

[Sartori]

I`m supposing a mac can read vcds? Use Nero to make a vcd and then just add files to the structure by dragging and dropping them , I don`t see why a pc or mac won`t see their respective files or am I overlooking something ?

[newzki]

A Mac can read PC VCD folders off the cd and regular pc files for the most part, just the other way around makes it a pain. You have to go through the hybrid building process because of the partitions and formats both OS's use. Dropping the files in PC works. But then i'm stuck with the Mac files. I can't put them on.

[vitualis]

Just create the VCD as per normal (if you use Nero) and drag the additional files into the filesystem panel.

VCDs ONLY support ISO filesystems but Macs should be able to read this without difficulty. I don't quite understand where your problem lies.

Make two additional folders on the VCD (one called PC or Windows and one called Mac). Drop the Mac files into the Mac folder.

Regards.

[andydd]

I was under the impression that a MAC CANT read a CD made on a PC using standard ISO format. In Nero you can make a 'Hybrid' CD readable by both MACS and PCS but it looks kinda complicated and you need SCSI hard drive conected. Howere I think you could use the UDF format which is readable by both, just like DVD's are..however you not sure you can make aUDF VCD..but you ould try

[newzki]

But how do I get the Mac files into NERO on the PC? Also, everytime I am successful with putting the files on the Mac, the start file isn't valid and doesn't turn into an icon. Or when I do add files to open sessions, the VCD doesn't work or the VCD works, just the Mac start is invalid.

[newzki]

Ok, I may have got it to work. But, the VCD folders disappear. Is there a way to keep them? I want to reuse the movie files.

[tgpo]

I was under the impression that a MAC CANT read a CD made on a PC using standard ISO format.

Sure it can. I had 30 mp3 disks that were burned on a PC, and my mac reads then just fine.

[MpegEncoder]

The whole point of the ISO standard is so that the file system will be universal.

[andydd]

Are you sure. ?. I was under the impression that the ISO system was only universal for PCs, the fist universal system for both MAC and PCs was UDF (hence the name Univrsal Disc Format) as used on DVDs.

Heres what Nero has to say about hybrid discs...

"Hybrid CDs contain the well known ISO 9660 and additionally the Apple Macintosh HFS file system. Such CDs will be both readable by Macs and PCs. Nero creates so called „non shared" Hybrid CDs. That means, files to be read by Macs and PCs must exist twice (one ISO and one HFS copy of the file) on the CD.
To create Hybrid-CDs using Nero you need to connect your PC with a SCSI hard disk containing the HFS partition to be written on the Hybrid CD. Such HFS partitions can only be created and edited using an Apple Macintosh computer."

I have a CD here that contains printer drivers for both MACs n PCs but i cant read the MAC driver info and i assume its visa versa for MAC owners !

maybe the discs that people have made that can be read in both have been made using the UDF/ISO format coz making a true Hybrid discs in Nero anyway is rather complicated.

[sterno]

I'm not sure that what you want is possible if you're trying to keep compatibility with classic (Mac OS 9 and earlier). I suspect that you may end up making a StuffIt .sit archive (they don't have resource forks) or a mountable disk image (I don't remember which kinds of disk images have resource forks, that may not work) and a README file telling people how to use it. I think if you're willing to make it OS X-only (and if Macromedia Director can create a true OS X-only executable) you could use that, resource forks are officially deprecated with the move from HFS to UFS. You could also make an OS X version that runs directly off the disc and put a classic version in an archive or disk image...

The fundamental problem isn't so much getting files on to the disc as getting them on in a usable format. Traditional Mac files are structured in a very different way than PC files, NTFS with "alternate data streams" in Windows 2000 and higher are sort of like the native HFS way of storing files. Standard ISO9660 can't store the Mac resource fork or the various extra attributes like file types and creators, which is why ISO/HFS hybrid filesystems are normally used. Both pieces can point to the same set of files on the disc (the HFS is just an add-on), or both can also have their own files depending on how you author it - Nero is not an appropriate tool for cross-platform mastering.

There is also some kind of Apple HFS extension for ISO that retains compatibility with standard ISO9660 but retains at least some of the information when it's read on a Mac, but I'm not sure exactly what it retains. I'm also not sure if it could be hacked in to VCDImager in the same way that the ISO level-2 filename support is without breaking VCD compatibility.

I have a CD here that contains printer drivers for both MACs n PCs but i cant read the MAC driver info and i assume its visa versa for MAC owners !

Reading the disk and using the data on it are completely different issues. Take a floppy disk with an Excel spreadsheet on it to a PC that doesn't have Excel installed. You can still read the disk, you can copy the file off, etc. - but you can't use the file because you don't have a program that can read it. The same same general principle applies to software, except that it's a matter of not having the right operating system and hardware platform instead of just needing an application.

[newzki]

The VCD folders disappear when I add a second session. The VCD still plays in the DVD but they are not visible in Explorer. Is there a way to keep the VCD folders visible so I can have Director use the DAT files instead of having duplicate movies on the CD?

[Cornucopia]

I've been mulling this over for a couple of days, and this seems to be the only completely compatible option:

1. Make your videos. Encode them to MPEG1. Rename them to "AVSEQ01.DAT", etc. and put them into a dummy MPEGAV subfolder of the folder where your Director Project will be (You're faking the final VCD structure). This is meant to make Director (or many other apps for that matter) use relative referencing--VERY IMPORTANT.

2. Create your Director Project and Make your self-contained executable. Make sure all other references are either in that folder or a subfolder (see reason #1 above).

3. Make a CD of those folders. Test the app to see if it works.

4. Do the same thing again on a Mac. Burn a disc here too. These are both just standard MacHFS or ISO discs at this point. Try using Mode2Form1 if you can, cuz that's what the VCD data section will be.

5. Get a copy of Query's Mac Internet Disc Writer (the Pro Edition) or Philips' VideoCD 2.0 Toolkit for Mac. GOOD LUCK!

6. Make your VCD with IDW. It has features for additional Files/Folders.

7. Copy your (non-VCD) stuff from the 2 prep discs (Win, Mac) onto an area that can be included in IDW (prob. should be in root directory). Do not include the dummy MPEGAV stuff, as it will be generated from the VCD authoring.

8. Add AUTORUN.INF instructions for PC work.

9.Finish authoring and burn the disc/discimage.

I've been partially successful with other methods, but they use multi-session or additional XA tracks and aren't compatible with all devices. Or they require a duplicate MPEG file (size becomes a problem then).

Any other ideas?

Scott

[newzki]

I can't find any of that software you mentioned. I'm a PC user so I'm not too familiar with Mac software. Is there any other way? Nero allows me to import a vcd session and add files, but the hybrid mac files don't stay intact to be usable. It's a shame Nero isn't available for the Mac. I really appreciate everyone's suggestions.

[Cornucopia]

Actually, I think you'll find it next to impossible trying to find either of those programs. I also think that even if one could find these, they are neary defunct and broken with the emergence of OSX.

Having gone through this trouble of testing, I would be inclined to just scrap the idea and move on to DVD. At least there, you can create Hybrid projects and there are still existing or not-current-but-still-obtainable programs to work with that support such features. I'm speaking of Scenarist, Creator, Maestro, DVD SP, ReelDVD etc.
Either I'd go that way, or forego the "Computer-Enhanced" portions and just opt for a rich experience using the stock VCD 2.0 / SVCD / DVD protocol. You can still do quite a lot with just that.

Good luck,
Scott

[Specialist]

I'm not certain if this helps, but I have Ulead's MediaStudio Pro 7.0 video editor, which includes the SE version of DVD MovieFactory 2.

It's called INCLUDE PERSONAL FOLDER.

I have discovered that DVD MovieFactory 2 SE lets you create a VideoCD, but *also* lets you check a box and browse to a "personal" folder on your hard drive that can contain any data you might have... Adobe Acrobat PDF files... Microsoft PowerPoint files... etc.

Very handy.

http://www.ulead.com/dmf/compare.htm

Jerry Jones
http://www.jonesgroup.net