IC7 Size Question/Using MackemX Prediction Calulator

[icemanatvcd]

MackemX, I am trying to do Cliffhanger using IC7. It is in 2.31:1 format. The movie only file is about 5.76 gig (From top of my head, I am at work at the moment and it is really bugging me!). I set the size to 4.55Gb. It came out 4.07 Gb. So I went to your prediction calculator and slot in the figures and set the size to 4.77Gb (By doubling the size as it is 2.31:1 ratio), restarted the whole procedure again from scratch. It came exactly to be the same size of 4.07Gb as my previous run. How do you explain that?

What I make of this is that IC7 can do downsize adjustment but not upsize adjustment. Am I right?

Thank you.

[MackemX]

you cannot correctly predict 2.35:1 movies using IC cos of the black bars

explanation is HERE

2:35:1 are unpredictable and only work with the longer movies when you double the margin of error

normally if it's orginally 70% or less it mainly works e.g 6.04GB into 4.37Gb with a 0.47Gb soundtrack would be 5.57Gb of video-only into 3.90GB or 70% setting

that's why yours will always be around 4.07Gb no matter what you put it to, even 99.90 won't work

it's best just to use another app for these ones cos they love the black bars and it has little effect on the main image cos most of the compression is made from the black bars

[icemanatvcd]

I will study your comments in more details later and get back to you.

What I have one question at this stage?

Does IC7 do a better job than other apps regardless of size, say 4.07GB V 4.38Gb done by DVDShrink?

Thanks.

[MackemX]

Does IC7 do a better job than other apps regardless of size, say 4.07GB V 4.38Gb done by DVDShrink?

probably, due to it getting an extra 10% for the video

[icemanatvcd]

Your last answer seems to be little confusing, becuase in your previous post you wrote:

it's best just to use another app for these ones cos they love the black bars and it has little effect on the main image cos most of the compression is made from the black bars

If compression is made mostly from black bars then DVDShrink should produce better result in quicker time.

Thank you.

[MackemX]

I meant probably as in DVDShrink will be better , sorry bowt that

the DVD95Copy job I did on Road To Perdition was visibly better during playback than IC but then it had nearly 0.9GB of extra space for the video

so I guess DVDShrink at 4.37Gb(if you can get it) will be ever so slightly better than IC at the lower size, but I'm not 100% sure

[icemanatvcd]

OK I will do some tests myself and let you know.

On another note I did Matrix which is also 3.51:1 ratio. It came close to full capacity of the DVD-R using IC7.

[MackemX]

that's cos the Matrix is longer than Cliffhanger so probably larger, so the Matrix needs compressing more

the more a DVD needs compressing the better the chance it has of coming out nearer to 4.37Gb

I did Titanic 2.30:1 and got it just under 4.37Gb

[icemanatvcd]

No it was the other way around. Cliffhanger is much longer than Matrix. I will have to give you the sizes for that. I am 100% sure.

[MackemX]

strange, cos my matrix DVD is 15 minutes longer than my Cliffhanger DVD so I would presume the movie-only files in the Matrix would be marginally bigger but I won't find out unless I put them into PC. Can't find my Cliffhanger DVD anywhere tho so I won't bother

are you doing movie only?

are the audio files the same size, cos they may be different bitrates and that will affect the compression ratios also cos the video will be different

the overall sizes may be bigger in Cliffhanger cos it may have more audio tracks but I may be wrong cos I usually am

[icemanatvcd]

I think there are two versions of Cliffhanger. This one is the longer version of the two there were 6 files are over 6Gb plus another one. All together were 6.45Gb something.

I am doing movie only with one sound track and one sub, I have stripped all the crap using DVDToolbox.

[MackemX]

6.45Gb are you sure?

is this the size of the main movie and only one soundtrack ?

I think you are getting mixed up, cos all the Cliffhanger DVD's are less than 2 hours yet Matrix is longer cos it's at least 2 hours 10mins

even the 3 hour Titanic is 6.21Gb for movie and 0.51Gb for audio making 6.72Gb for movie only plus one soundtrack so Cliffhanger is nearly one hour shorter but only 0.27Gb smaller

my version of Matrix only has one soundtrack to begin with and DVDShrink shows the video is 4.75Gb and the audio is only 0.38Gb (384kbps also)

somehow I think you are including all the audio's and subs in that size of 6.45Gb which will obviously make it bigger than the Matrix along with the fact that the audio in Cliffhanger will be higher at 448kbps

what you need to look at is the original video-only and what's it's being compressed to regardless of audio/subs

hope you understand

[icemanatvcd]

I understand.

I am pretty sure, it is one of the best DVD I have seen in quality wise. I will go home tonight and check the size again and post it back here. The time of the length of the movie does not matter, it is the bits which matter, don't they?

Anyway there were more than three audios on it (Which I stripped out using DVDtoolbox). One audio is roughly about 300 mb aren't they? The rest is for main movie.

[icemanatvcd]

OK MackemX, I was wrong about the size these are the correct sizes.

The Matrix: Video 4.37GB Audio .36 GB Total 4.73 GB
Cliffhanger: Video 5.57Gb Audio .35 GB Total 5.92 GB

Still Cliffhanger is longer than the Matrix. Using IC7 these were the sizes I got:

The Matrix: 4.24 GB
Cliffhanger: 4.09 GB

Why does Cliffhanger comes smaller than Matrix? Dark/Light scenes perhaps?

I also tested the quality using the DVDShrink, IC7 was the winner again. Even though it did not use the full capacity of the DVD-R. I am sticking with IC7. I have not tried DVD95, what I don't think it can beat IC7.

I also did Harry Potter 2 using IC7 a few days ago and it came to 4.36GB, probably due to its large size.

Help

[MackemX]

OK MackemX, I was wrong about the size these are the correct sizes.

The Matrix: Video 4.37GB Audio .36 GB Total 4.73 GB
Cliffhanger: Video 5.57Gb Audio .35 GB Total 5.92 GB

Still Cliffhanger is longer than the Matrix. Using IC7 these were the sizes I got:

The Matrix: 4.24 GB
Cliffhanger: 4.09 GB

what Region we talking about here cos mine are totally different
Can you tell me the DVD catalogue numbers please

are you using IC to show you the original sizes?

cheers, tell me the numbedr then maybe I can try to do some explaining

[icemanatvcd]

Region 4 (Australia)

I have used DVDToolbox for checking sizes. I know IC7 has problems when reporting size as you mentioned in some of your posts.

Another question, I was wondering whether you can actually trim those black bars out using some other app then run through IC7 or other app if the size is still over 4.38GB? So you don't loose out on quality. Just a thought, could be totally out of line!

Thanks.

[MackemX]

you've still got me puzzled with the undersizing

obviously I cannot check the DVD's cos mine are different regions thats why I was gonna see if I could find your DVD's online and see what it says about ratio's

you sure the Matrix is definitely 2.35:1 with the black bars within the image?, if so this is the 1st I have heard of a 2.35:1 of a small size actually getting over 4Gb never mind filling 4.24Gb from an original size of 4.73Gb or a compression rate of around 88% for the video

u sure it ain't a 16:9 enhanced 1.85:1 whatever jobbie?

I have region 2 Matrix here and the video is 4.75Gb and the audio is only 0.38Gb
this is it here

even the Titantic undersized by around 10% more than it normally would, so I'll pass on the sizing issue cos I gotta believe you when you say it as long as your sure

you could trim the black bars but then you may have difficuly maintain the ratio, but I dunno cos I ain't done it before. I thought about it but then could't be bothered with hassle. I'd rather use DVD2DVD-R or something else

[icemanatvcd]

I am pretty sure, here is the link for Australian Version

http://www.dvdorchard.com.au/Product.asp?AffID=600026&PND=100819

[icemanatvcd]

Come on MackemX, I thought you were the king of size. You have explaination for this?

[MackemX]

I can't really comment cos I ain't got the DVD's so can't check it out

there is nothing wrong with Cliffhanger, that's what you would expect, it's The Matrix that's puzzling

I can't understand how your 2.35:1 DVD never undersized like others at that rate of compression, this is the first I've seen of it not doing it

have you got PowerDVD?

If you take a snapshot it will show the true format of the DVD and you will see how big the black bars are. Maybe the black bars are already heavily compressed in your version of The Matrix

this is mine Here

[MackemX]

I ran Matrix on my PC this afternoon while I was out

4.73Gb in, I oversized it to 4.56Gb and 4.24Gb came out

same as you

it's gotta be the size of data used for black bars thats the cause of smaller undersizing. If it's small to begin with then less will be lost

that's about the best I can come up with