Pinnacle Studio 8 vs Ulead VideoStudio 7

[donpedro]

Regarding Vegas 4.0... he's right about how good it is. It takes time to learn, and I know I've barely scratched the surface of its capabilities, but I can easily envision the day when I can scrap Studio 8 entirely and use Vegas exclusively. It's quite pricey for the hobbyist, but if you can afford it, you won't be disappointed.

I believe you.... Unfortunatly I can't afford it.

[jsnkc]

Finally someone who sees things my way

[MJPollard]

Regarding Vegas 4.0... he's right about how good it is. It takes time to learn, and I know I've barely scratched the surface of its capabilities, but I can easily envision the day when I can scrap Studio 8 entirely and use Vegas exclusively. It's quite pricey for the hobbyist, but if you can afford it, you won't be disappointed.

I believe you.... Unfortunatly I can't afford it.

Well, yeah, that is a slight problem. (I had to save up a few paychecks for it, myself, and I'm not exactly a "minimum-wage slave monkey." )

[mustang581]

Well this is completely off topic,
I currently use PS8 and it is good enough for now, but as I learn more I would not Mind investing in a more professional application like Vegas Video 4 + DVD.
Just in case people are not aware, if you are a student you can purchase some applications at an Academic price at your college or university. And I think VV4 may be one.

[rma155]

I have PS8 and VS7. I like them both. PS8 has a great editor. My issue is that I have found that I never have audio sync problems when capturing in DV type 1. PS8 unfortunately can't capture in DV Type 1, while VS7 can do both type 1 and type 2. Using a converter didn't help. In addition, with VS7 you can specify 3rd party codecs like the MainConcept DV codec which introduces zero loss when you have to do multiple renderings.

[donpedro]

In addition, with VS7 you can specify 3rd party codecs like the MainConcept DV codec which introduces zero loss when you have to do multiple renderings.

I am not sure what do you mean by this... Could you please explain ? Thanks.

[rma155]

With VS7, under the AVI tab of "template options" of the "make movies template manager" (for NTSC DV) you can specify the compression for DV. Since MainConcept claims their DV codec remains lossless after multiple renders (i.e., multiple edit sessions), I downloaded it and tried it in place of the DV Video Encoder (which I assume is Microsoft/DirectShow). I wanted the highest quality rendering since I performed multiple edits (re-trimmed) on my clips. It seems to have helped.

It's my understanding that DV codecs are involved mainly in the rendering process and that's where quality counts. MainConcept claims with other codecs there is loss with every re-render.

[donpedro]

Based on what I was reading in last couple of days I think that no codec is involved in trimming or cutting on DV AVI file. Original file remains intact, only data in project file are changing and pointing to different location in DV AVI file. Only when you add titles, transitions, effects and so on.... DV encoder is important which will encode only edited part. Rest will be still used from original capture file.

After that when you are going to make DVD then again .... only parts that were edited (not trimmed or cut) will be encoded from new DV AVI temp files. Rest is encoded from original DV AVI.

So I wouldn't realy worry abuot multiple edits. They don't change original file. At least that is how I uderstand it.

[rma155]

You may be right. Here is how Mainconcept describes their DV codec:

"DV ("Digital Video") is a popular format used by digital camcorders and popular video editing software. Many people believe that there is no quality loss when editing in the DV format, however this is only a myth. Although there is no quality loss when transferring DV data from one device to another (from a camcorder to a computer, for example), there can be quality loss during editing. For example, if a transition is added between two clips, the affected frames will need to be rendered (calculated), and there is the potential for quality loss.

However, the MainConcept DV Codec offers razor-sharp quality, even after many generations of rendering. Many people purchase this codec as an add-on for video editing software which uses an inferior DV codec. The ultra-fast rendering performance also adds to the popularity."

When you do multiple trims over time and as a result re render the clips but add no transition effects, you may not lose quality. I'm still unclear on this though.

[nerdboy69]

The marketing person who wrote that has used lawyer style smoke and mirrors. Although the codec may be good (I am no judge either way), the real artistry is in their wording. They mention zero-loss during transfer, which donpedro rightly points out is the case no matter what the codec, and then they mention it offers razor sharp quality.

The wordsmith has captured your attention to zero-loss objective concept before hitting you with a subjective observation hoping you will see them as one.

Razor sharp quality is an observation, not a measure, and is not the same as zero loss. Don't get me wrong, if their programmers are as good as their marketing, it may well be the best codec out there.

MainConcept claims with other codecs there is loss with every re-render.

Yes, they do. But they don't claim their product does not have loss either. They could be sued for such a absolute mistruth. Let yourself be the real judge.

[donpedro]

rma155, you can read this post or follow source .... maybe it will make it more clear to you.

Capturing DV - the same quality AVI from all applications?

[rma155]

donpedro,

Yes, I read the thread and it seems to reinforce what I suspected. To paraphrase,

"it's when you render edited material that the PC's codec comes into use."

I am not talking about capture. When I trim and save trimmed clips in VS7, it renders each trim. And further, when I combine all the trimmed clips, it renders the project as one file. Each rendering uses the PC's DV codec. VS7 gives you the option to specify a codec to use when rendering. The Mainconcept codec seems to do a better render.

[donpedro]

Hmm.... what about this....

Clips without filters or transitions are not being touched by the codec and simply copied to the target file. If you would have a project which consists only of hard cuts, the codec wouldn't be called for editing at all.

Now question is what they call "hard cut". My interpretation will be, trim or cut when there is no change in any frame within trimed borders (no transitions). I hope that I am right but it is just what I think...

[ktnwin]

For instance, you can import an avi captured with Virtualdub/PicVideo MJPEG codec, edit in Studio 8 and then save with the same codec you used in Virtualdub, but you can't capture in Studio 8 with this same codec!
Very strange!

Regarding this strange behavior of PS8 , I understood the reason behind it (or at least I guessed it). PS8 can capture DV easily since it just get data from the DigCam then save it to hard drive. Capturing in any other format would mean PS8 has to encode in REAL TIME. And this has proved to be very difficult for Pinnacle to do. I have tried to capture with PS8 from DV to MPEG-2. It's a joke, it still captures in DV then encode to MPEG-1. By the time the capture finishes, PS8 still spend awfully a long time to convert that to MPEG-2.
My two cents

[donpedro]

I have tried to capture with PS8 from DV to MPEG-2. It's a joke, it still captures in DV then encode to MPEG-1. By the time the capture finishes, PS8 still spend awfully a long time to convert that to MPEG-2.

Actualy you can change that... I posted it in another post where this was discussed. PS8 can convert on-the-fly..... But I am not saying that with good result ....

[jaeshin]

I have PS8 and VS7. I like them both. PS8 has a great editor. My issue is that I have found that I never have audio sync problems when capturing in DV type 1. PS8 unfortunately can't capture in DV Type 1, while VS7 can do both type 1 and type 2. Using a converter didn't help. In addition, with VS7 you can specify 3rd party codecs like the MainConcept DV codec which introduces zero loss when you have to do multiple renderings.

I believe you can also use Mainconcept DV codec when making AVI file in Studio 8. By default, it uses DV Video Encoder but you can change it to Mainconcept if you have it installed.

If you are talking about capturing, you are right. PS8 doesn't let you change it.

FYI, I tried to make AVI files using both mainconcept DV codec and the default DV encoder out of 2 minute video with one title screen, one title overlay and a transition.

The results are identical (at least from what I can tell) but it took less time with Mainconcept. 2:10 with DV vs. 1:50 with Mainconcept.

You can try the demo to see for yourself.

[Rich927]

Intresting topic here. I also have used Videostudio and Studio 7. Yes, they are both entry level programs and they do have faults. The main fault with Studio, is that it only works with one type of avi files. This can cause headaches if you import an avi file from another program. Videostudio, fault is it's DVD/VCD authoring. For someone who wants to learn about editing, they are both good and that's their purpose. I use them both along with Premire 6.5 and Photoshop 7. I make VCD's and DVD's for a small group of dog breeders. Depending on the project, subject, time constraint and what the person wants, determines which program I use. I find Videostudio faster to use. Studio is the slowest. I did a test of Videostudio and Studio's DV capture. Both had problems. Videostudio did do better.

I haven't seen much about what the system setups are. That has a lot of bearing on how any program performs. A slow drive really hurts. I did another comparison using a Pent 133 with 64 meg memory, 8 gig hd and a Matrox Rainbowrunner capture card (which uses hardware MJPEG compression). A Pent 4 2.3 with 1 gig memory, 120 gig hd and a Pyro firewire card. Used files from each to make a MPG-1 file using Videostudio which will edit mpeg better than Studio or Premire ( Premire does not reccomend editing MPEG, It was not designed to do so). Compared the MPEG-1 files. Both came out pretty much the same.

Buy the best program you can afford. A true professional who knows his craft, can do wonders with just about any program.

[donpedro]

Any news on this with new updates ?

[donpedro]

Maybe good idea to revisit this post since new Pinnacle Studio version 9 is out. Anybody knows what is new in Ulead VideoStudio world ?

[MOVIEGEEK]

Maybe good idea to revisit this post since new Pinnacle Studio version 9 is out. Anybody knows what is new in Ulead VideoStudio world ?

I'm still waiting for an AC3 plugin....they have one for MF3.

[qlizard]

For those that (try to) do simple editing with MPEG, I think there is a big advantage to the VS7 with "smartrender". I don't own Studio, but I have read that the MPEG rerendering process takes far longer than with VS7. I have read up on this because I am one of the unfortunate souls with a Dazzle DVC 150. I still capture with the old dazzle software and use VS7 for manipulation. I have not "upgraded" to Studio after reading posts concerning the inferior "smartrendering". From what I've read, ulead is even better at this than the majestic Vegas, which still rerenders edited MPEG.

[donpedro]

I do not capture MPEG2, but since somebody pointed out that since version 8.10 Studio does have SmartRender functionality. Just to test it I did it. I can confirm that it works. It renders only edited small parts.

[donpedro]

Maybe good idea to revisit this post since new Pinnacle Studio version 9 is out. Anybody knows what is new in Ulead VideoStudio world ?

I'm still waiting for an AC3 plugin....they have one for MF3.

MF3 is additional product. And yes... I gues if Ulead can make DVD Authoring product with AC3 for $50, Pinnacle should think of adding it too. I don't believe that Ulead VideoStudio 7 have AC3 plug-in. Am I right ?

[donpedro]

I see now.... Ulead® DVD MovieFactory™ 3 Disc Creator is the one that hac AC3 and it is $99. Anyway... it is not Ulead VideoStudio

[tigerman8u]

I have Ulead video studio 6 and PS 8. I use UVS most of the time, but then maybe that's because I've had UVS alot longer and am more famaliar with it. I do want to give PS 8 a good workout one of these days when I have time.
ps. Vegas Video has nothing to do with the original post, besides as stated above how many of us have the money to spend on a product that we don't need to do home video.