DVD-RAM

[markw]

I am wondering what the use of dvd-ram is? I just bought a HS2 along with many blank dvd-r's. I kind of overlook the fact it supports dvd-ram. As well I always thought of dvd-ram as more suitable on a PC and being used for data. As well, I know DVD players won't support it and since my pc doesn't have a dvd-ram drive I'd only be able to use the dvd-ram on this player. What do most of you that use dvd-ram find that it's useful for?

[royrose]

I have an HS2 also. I agree that the DVD-RAM isn't very usefull unless you you have a DVD-RAM drive in your computer. Otherwise, the only thing it is usefull for is recording some video that you want to save for a while but not forever.

If you do have a DVD-RAM drive in your computer, then you can import the files into your computer.

I think Panasonic is fighting a losing battle to keep DVD-RAM alive. I am very happy with my HS2 otherwise.

Roy

[next]

If you choose to import captures from your set top box to your pc then I would explore the benifits the format may offer.

[disturbed1]

Panasonic has "vowed" to make DVD-RAM a major player this year. The new DVD Multi logo includes support for DVD-R/RW/RAM. Look for most set tops and PC units coming out later this year and next to support the RAM format.

I'm going to buy one of Panasonics cheaper set tops, $99 at Walmart, to play back RAM discs because it's more robust than RW.

[Quigonsean]

Disturbed- THANK YOU, THANK YOU I was begining to think I was the only one here who realized how -RAM is considerably better than either RW save the compatability issues but more and more drives and player are supporting it, all the new Toshiba settops I've seen are now supporting it as well as a lot of their DVD-ROM drives.

Sean

[next]

It is almost too good to be true. Still trying to make it fail - have not been able to yet. A quote:


"For file exporting (also called extraction), you have three options: export all registered programs (All Programs Export), export the selected program (Program Export), or export individual markers (Marker Export). The same features are available for playlists, specifically, exporting individual playlists or scenes. Playlists let you quickly create other playback variations for your video. The advantage of the DVD-RAM as a platform for DVD Video production is also clear from the high-speed MPEG-2 extraction at your command. "

http://www.panasonic.co.jp/dvdram/english/dvdmulti/index.html

[next]

Forgot to mention that the real advantage here is if you have a set top box that has DVD-Ram capabilities. Or some of the new DVD-Ram consumer video recording gadgets.

[andydd]

First of all ..with DVD-Ram you can record n play at same time..this is a rather cool feature. Also i got toshiba DVD Rom/Ram drive in my PC for only £30 which makes diting esay

[FulciLives]

THE MAGIC OF DVD-RAM

First of all I would like to add that I have not tried importing a DVD-RAM to the computer becuase I don't have a DVD-RAM reader. However, the procedure I am about to explain is from information I have put together from many different postings I have read (mostly from the AVS Forum) over the last few months. I do have a DVD-R drive in the computer and access to a friend's Panny stand alone DVD recorder (the DMR-E20) but the real magic here involves using the Panny HS-1/HS-2 which have a HDD built-in. Once I save up enough money I plan on getting the Panny E-80 which is an updated version with an 80GB HDD whereas the HS-1/HS-2 only have a 40GB drive. The Panny E-80 is due out within the next couple of months, if not sooner.

One last thing ... Toshiba makes a fairly inexpensive DVD-ROM drive that also reads DVD-RAM discs. This is a good alternative for those who already have a DVD burner in the computer but need to add the option to read DVD-RAM discs. This Toshiba model (SD-M1712) can be found on-line for as low as $40 to $50 US dollars. I plan on adding this to my own system soon in anticipation of getting the Panny E-80 stand alone DVD recorder.

Anyways ... here is how the "trick" works. You need to first record directly to the HDD in the Panny stand alone. If you need to do any editing (such as trimming the start or end of the program or cutting out commercials from a TV recording) do it on the HDD. Now it is very important that you record to the HDD at the same recording speed you intend to use for the final DVD-R so most people use the SP (2 hour/120 minutes) recording speed. Now after doing any editing transfer the recording to a DVD-RAM disc. Now take this disc and read it into your computer.

As I understand you have two ways to proceed. You can either copy the filename.vro file to the computer and then rename it to either mpg or mpeg (I'm not sure which or if it makes a difference). You can then import this into an authoring program. The most popular seem to be Ulead's Movie Factory 2 (some also use Ulead's DVD Work Shop but that program is VERY expensive and seems to be a bit of overkill). Anyway, from my understanding, these two programs will actually read the filename.vro file directly from the DVD-RAM disc. Now here is why you did the editing on the HDD of the Panny first. When you import it into the Ulead software, it will see one single large video/audio file. HOWEVER if you did any editing on the DVD-RAM disc then the import will see multiple mpeg files, with each file ending/starting at any edit points. That can be a royal pain-in-the-ass and that is why you need the HDD model so you can do your editing on the HDD ... when you then transfer to DVD-RAM you get a single file.

Anyway you go ahead and make your custom menu/chapter points in the Ulead software ... create an image ... then burn it to a DVD-R. You know have a nicely edited DVD-R with fancy custom designs (or at least better than the piss poor menu system the stand alone Panny's make). The big benefit here is you have a DVD-R that is actually more compatable than those recorded and finalized on the Panny stand alone recorders and most importantly there is NO RE-ENCODING of the recording.

This process, which allows a custom made DVD-R without the need to do a software re-encode is ONLY possible using the DVD-RAM format. If you rip a DVD-R to the computer to make custom menu/chapters you will have to do a software re-encoding. No way around it. If you don't have a Panny stand alone with the HDD you can still edit directly on the DVD-RAM using the Panny but remember that your resulting mpeg will be segmented and at each "edit" the final DVD-R will pause slightly as it goes from one mpeg file to the next. Those who do a lot of TV recording to DVD-RAM (without the benefit of editing first on the Panny HDD) will get around the editing by not editing but by putting custom chapter points (using the Ulead software) at the end of each commercial break. That way as you are watching your DVD-R and the commercials begin you simply hit the NEXT CHAPTER key on your remote to SKIP the commercials.

Please note that any editing you do once you get to the computer will cause the Ulead software to re-encode which you of course want to avoid. Also please note that your HDD recording must be at the same speed you transfer to the DVD-RAM. If you record at the XP (1 hour/60 minutes) mode to the HDD then record to the DVD-RAM at the SP (2 hour/120 minutes) mode the Panny will re-encode while transfering to the DVD-RAM. Just trying to point out the pitfalls one can easily fall into using this process.

One final note ... Ulead DVD WorkShop can handle AC-3 files but Movie Factory 2 cannot so you will get an "error" msg when you import the DVD-RAM VRO file into MF2. However, the program will correctly pass the audio to the final DVD-R burn without a problem ... as long as you don't do any editing in Ulead, which you need to avoid anyway or the program will re-encode the video and screw up the sound. Last but not least there is an option in MF2 that you need to select which is called "Do not re-encode DVD complaint video".

I can't wait to add DVD-RAM reading to my computer so I can try this process myself. I have a somewhat slow computer (by today's standards) and doing a software mpeg2 encoding/re-encoding on MY computer takes forever ... not to mention a loss in quality over the original recording.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[next]

You can also us DVD-MovieAlbum to edit your vro file. You are correct when you say edits on DVD-Ram vro files can create problems but DVD-MovieAlbum has a feature that allows you to remove these points. The result is one large vro file without these points. Keep an eye on prices because if you really want to set up a good pc dvd-ram system you can find the panny dvd-ram and dvd-r(w) burners for less than $200. DVD-MovieAlbum is bundled with the retail panny burners along with alot of other interesting software.

edit here:

I should add that Womble Mpeg2vcr also alows editing of vro files. The latest version also handles ac-3. The knock with Mpeg2vcr in the past was its price - $249. No more because if you check out the Womble site you will see that the price has been reduced to $119. Much more affordable. Copy the vro file from the DVD-Ram disk to your hard drive and edit to your hearts content. Author and burn.

[next]

One more point. Womble Mpeg2vcr allows you to edit right off of the DVD-ram disk. This is a huge time saver because you don't have to copy the vro file to your hard drive if you don't want to. Just make sure you save your edits to a folder on your hard drive. Author your edited file in the program of your choice and burn. This saves alot of time.

[FulciLives]

Hello

If I recall correctly you loose the AC-3 audio when you use Panasonic's DVD MOVIE ALBUM software. I think it converts (or is it transcodes) it into MP2 audio.

If this Womble Mpeg2Vcr can edit VRO files including the AC-3 audio (without changing it to another format like wav or mp2) then that might help me save some money ... in other words I'll get either the Panny E50 or E60 ... no built-in HDD but a lot less money as well.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

*** EDIT ***
However, I should point out, that when I'm done editing I want a single VRO that will be read as a single MPEG file when I import it into Ulead Movie Factory 2 rather than have it be in multiple files where the edit points are. That is almost as key to me as not having to do a software re-encode on the computer.

[disturbed1]

The newest Womble edits AC3 in program streams. Version 3.14. They've lowered their prices too.

[next]

FulciLives -

I believe you are correct with MovieAlbum and ac-3.

Womble Mpeg2vcr may be your ticket. I saves the file with ac-3 intact. The file that is saved in Mpeg2vcr is an mpeg file without the dreaded chapter points associated with dvd-ram edits and vro files. It is one big mpeg file that imports into MF2 just fine. After importing the mpeg file you can use MF2 to set your chapter points if you wish.

[FulciLives]

I believe you are correct with MovieAlbum and ac-3.
Womble Mpeg2vcr may be your ticket. I saves the file with ac-3 intact. The file that is saved in Mpeg2vcr is an mpeg file without the dreaded chapter points associated with dvd-ram edits and vro files. It is one big mpeg file that imports into MF2 just fine. After importing the mpeg file you can use MF2 to set your chapter points if you wish.

THANK YOU !!!

This sounds like a FINE way of doing things WITHOUT the need of a stand alone DVD player with built-in HDD. Looks like I may soon be getting me a Pany E-50

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[thxkid]

Since I only have the E10 and E20 the 9 ram discs I have are like having blank VHS tapes , any show or program I want to record on ram I just pop one in come lback ater and watch them and then record over and plus they are great for editing also, once I get the APEX hard disc recorder for $199 I doubt if I will hardly ever use one then, be in the same boat as the people who own a HR-2, but spent a heck of a lot less money.

[jim15800]

question for thxkid. What is the model number of the apex you plan on getting with the harddrive? Is it also a dvd recorder or just a player? Thank you in advance for any information you provide.

[next]

THX - great solution. Hopefully there will be an easy way to import to a pc. I've always been an Apex fan. When dvd players were $300 Apex introduced a $150 player. The Pioneer and Panasonic fans can thank Apex for their sub $100 player .

[FulciLives]

IN RELATED NEWS:

APEX today stunned the industry when they announced that they would be making a DVD player that could play back a studio grade factory made DVD video disc without pausing once every other minute. However, the hacker community was up-in-arms over the specs of the upcomming line complaining about the loss of "standard" APEX features such as the inability to play non-spec VCD (known in the hacker world as XVCD) and SVCD discs. Some applauded the fact that the new players will support both DVD-R and DVD+R while Panasonic issued a press release saying that more companies should be supporting the DVD-RAM format "OR ELSE".

APEX stock dropped to a new low upon announcement of the new line of DVD players but then rose when word got out that they had a secret project on releasing another model DVD player that would support the divx3 codec (but not the "official" DivX 4.x or 5.x codecs). Advance word of beta testing has indicated that the new stand alone player can properly render divx3 encoded movies but only if the entire movie has been recorded on a single CD-R with MP3 sound at or below 128Kbps.

The MPAA is expected to issue a statement about this "secret project" but this reporter has inside knowledge that corporate bigwig WAL-MART wants to make a special deal with APEX to carry this DVD/divx3 player exclusively. Do not be surprised if this one ends up in court!

THIS JUST IN:
Circuit City, still upset over the failure of their so-called pay-as-you-watch divx format, is in talks with Disney to carry their new line of oxygen self-destructive DVD discs.

[MOVIEGEEK]

good one FulciLives
BTW...here's a link for a Panasonic SW-9571 CD-R/RW,DVD-R/RW/RAM writer for $154US:http://avlogic.com/product.cgi?code=18030019