DVDSHRINK...MPAA's worst nightmare?

[Kubrick]

The february 2003 issue of WIRED magazine wrote:

"...even as DVD-R technology goes mainstream, sales of commercial
titles will continue to grow. Besides, duplicating them isn't as easy yet as
it seems. DVDs are locked - and though cracking software is
available online, it takes some degree of aptitude to wield it." - WIRED, Page 46 Feb 2003 issue.

Flash FORWARD To April 9th 2003, when DVDSHRINK 1.02 gets released!!!!

In essence, now an app comes out that:

1) Duplicating a DVD is a breeze, even the most amateur of PC users can
now make great backups of DVDs. In about 45-60min, you can make
a near perfect/perfect backup of your DVD onto a DVD-R.

2) The app is free and available for download immediately. It's
also incredibly easy to use and very intuitive.

3) DVD-R media is tumbling in price. My estimates are, by next year...
sales of CD-RW burners will begin to decline and a sharp increase in
DVD-RW's will occur. CD-R media will officially replace the floppy (If it
hasn't already) and DVD-RW media will become the new cheap mass
storage medium.

My own thoughts on the future are...

1) Is Hollywood going to experience the same overnight dilemmna as the music industry?

Short answer: No!

Long answer:

I can only foresee the sell-through prices of DVDs becoming less common and an almost overnight change back to the old $89.95 per movie days.

The sell-through industry is going to dry up, and rental chains (Blockbuster/Jumbo Video) will benefit from heavier rentals. They'll just begin selling new DVD's less and less, eventually
they'll just begin selling used titles more prominently (more shelf-space).

Who's going to suffer the most? Record stores that also began selling movies/DVD's, especially HMV. They are completely toast. They are not a rental outlet, and relied on the sell-through market of DVD, box sets, etc...

"Game over man! Game over!" - Hudson from ALIENS!

2) DVD online swapping won't take off like wildfire the same way that MP3's have. The reason? Even with broadband, to download a 4.7 gig movie will take quite awhile. What I could foresee are DVD's being compressed to level 8, to be swapped at maybe smaller 1.2/6 gig sizes. That way people can burn them onto cheap DVD-R's and wouldn't have to fuss about getting DiVX movies to play on their t.v sets/DVD players.

Still though, people would be willing to spend some money to get the movie with all it's extra features, goodies, quality, etc...so online swapping won't really happen, until a faster level of broadband occurs.

3) Regardless, DVDSHRINK is really the app that I'd like to consider to be the 'milestone'.
It's an app that will be remembered and revered (famously and infamously). All what I know,
is that FINALLY...an app comes out that us mere mortals can make backups without much
fuss.

Thank you DVDSHRINK!

If VCDHELP.com had an 'app of the year' award, I'd cast my vote for DVDSHRINK!

My humble two cents from a DVDSHRINK user whom backed up'd 60+ DVD's over the
course of a week!

- Kubrick

P.S.

I wrote a letter to dvdcopydecrypter.com and asked them 'what gives'. They've
yet to respond...(I wonder why?)

[xistan]

This was really nice promotion for a very neat piece of software. But let's be realistic for a while.

You predict a complete fall of the DVD sell-through market just because there now is an application that makes DVD-copying a little bit easier than it was before. I don't know which planet you live on, but here on earth I know for sure that there is a lot of stores selling music CD even though it ismuch easier to copy a CD than a DVD. The CD-price is higher today than what it was a few years ago, but so is almost everything else. I don't believe anyone claiming that the piracy has an effect on CD-price. I think that is just another excuse for the record companies to make even more money by charging more bucks per record.

The movie market is in a different position. DVD-media is still quite expensive. So are the writers. The cheaper alternatives suffers from compatibility and playback problems. And many of the quality media manufacturers have interests in the movie industry themselves, which means that they have a very good excuse for keeping the media quite expensive. I believe the DVD-movies of today is still very expensive and I expect the prices to fall rather than increase.

Another perspective: I believe that many beginners will try DVD-Shrink (Or any similar all-in-one tool) on a 3 hour movie and they will be very disappointed with the result. Not even with the best effort could you get even CCE to do a good job and transcode a 3 hr flick to fit onto one DVDR with reasonable quality. Maybe better than VHS or VCD, but hey we're talking about DVD-copies here. If I copy a DVD I expect to get a near DVD quality result.

I claim that the movie industry doesn't need to worry about any extinction from DVD Recordables. Not until there is a perfect 1:1 copy push and go tool which makes a 100% quality copy of the disc with menus and everything. And that won't happen until a dual-layer (or at least a dual capacity/dual-sided) DVDR is available at a very reasonable price ( less than a dollar per disc).

/C

[Kubrick]

Hello Xistan,

Nice reply, but I do differ on a few points (gotta love these forums!)

This was really nice promotion for a very neat piece of software. But let's be realistic for a while.

For the record, I don't work for DVDSHRINK, nor am I getting paid. I just
believe that this app is...IT. It's the *killer app*. If I was a PC salesman,
I'd have DVDSHRINK running on the demo systems all day! This app alone is worth buying a computer/DVD-RW (if you didn't have one already).

You predict a complete fall of the DVD sell-through market just because there now is an application that makes DVD-copying a little bit easier than it was before.

It's not just a 'little bit', it's night and day. The fact that it's free gives
it universal appeal.

I do believe that the sell-through market might survive for specialty items,
such as special editiong DVD's, super-box sets. Movies that are so compelling, that ripping it wouldn't do justice.

I don't know which planet you live on, but hereon earth I know for sure that there is a lot of stores selling music CD even though it ismuch easier to copy a CD than a DVD. The CD-price is higher today than what it was a few years ago, but so is almost everything else. I don't believe anyone claiming that the piracy has an effect on CD-price. I think that is just another excuse for the record companies to make even more money by charging more bucks per record.

Alright, I'm not here to get into the whole CD/MP3/RIAA debate.

But to answer your one statement:

it ismuch easier to copy a CD than a DVD.

Yes and no.

When was the last time you could just rent a CD?

That's as far as I'll go with this point!

The movie market is in a different position. DVD-media is still quite expensive. So are the writers.

Like I said, by next year...that'll be moot. Right now, I can buy DVD-R's
for $2 (Canadian) in bulk. By next year, that should drop down to
0.50 cents per disc. DVD-RW's will go for $120-160 by then (right now
they are $300-400).

Do you at least agree that by next year, more people will be prefering
to have DVD-RW's instead of just CD-RW's?

The cheaper alternatives suffers from compatibility and playback problems.

I wrote about that, DiVX is cool and looks great...but is a real beotch
to get playback on a basic t.v.

I do agree with you about playback with DVD players. That's more the
fault of the DVD industry not rallying behind a firm standard in DVD-R
compatibility. I had to chuck my Hitachi DVD player and buy myself
a NORCENT DP-300 DVD player for $87 and it now plays all my backups
like a charm!

The media I've been using is OPTODISCS, great media and cheap too.

And many of the quality media manufacturers have interests in the movie industry themselves, which means that they have a very good excuse for keeping the media quite expensive. I believe the DVD-movies of today is still very expensive and I expect the prices to fall rather than increase.

Cheap DVD-R media will be eventually be just as good as top of the line stuff. As for DVD movies, they are actually pretty cheap in comparison to what VHS
new releases were going for. In the 'old days' even as early as 1995...
new releases of VHS movies were going for easily $100 per copy.

Right now, IF someone wanted to...they can rent a new release DVD, and make a backup of it for about $7 Canadian ($5 for the rental and 2 for the media). To buy that new release, the price is around $24 Canadian.

I'm just pointing out the obvious (I'm NOT trying to be pro-MPAA or whatever!)

The reason why sell-through initally took off...was that the quality of DVD was compelling enough to buy the DVD right off the bat instead of even bothering renting it.

Another perspective: I believe that many beginners will try DVD-Shrink (Or any similar all-in-one tool) on a 3 hour movie and they will be very disappointed with the result. Not even with the best effort could you get even CCE to do a good job and transcode a 3 hr flick to fit onto one DVDR with reasonable quality. Maybe better than VHS or VCD, but hey we're talking about DVD-copies here. If I copy a DVD I expect to get a near DVD quality result.

DVDSHRINK makes it very easy to dump a lengthy movie onto as many DVD's as you'd like with the highest quality setting possible.

Also, the sheer simplicity of DVDSHRINK will enable even the most
amateur of DVD owners to make great looking backups.

So yes, you could backup your copy of LOTR onto two DVD-r's and maintain 1:1 perfection (keeping the menus, commentaries, etc...).

I claim that the movie industry doesn't need to worry about any extinction from DVD Recordables. Not until there is a perfect 1:1 copy push and go tool which makes a 100% quality copy of the disc with menus and everything. And that won't happen until a dual-layer (or at least a dual capacity/dual-sided) DVDR is available at a very reasonable price ( less than a dollar per disc).

Out of my 60+ DVD's that I backed up, over 40+ were dual layered. The vast majority of them I was able to backup onto a 4.7 gigger with the most minimal of effort. The quality too is fantastic and I was able to keep everything, menus, supplementaries, the works (except for crap that I didn't need, like alternate language tracks, etc...).

To be honest...I also don't bother with a lot of the 'featurettes', because it's always the same crap...celebrities talking about how 'amazing' it was to work with everyone else...when you know that the real stories of what went on set are rarely ever told.

Also, for movies in which quality really meant a lot, I'd dump the movie onto one DVD-R and the supplementaries onto another.

Or in many respects...I'd just keep my originals close at hand!

I understand the yearning for a dual-layer DVD-R media...but do you really think it's worth waiting that long and passing up on an app like DVDSHRINK?

Thanks for your comments!

- Kubrick

[Jester700]

I just don't get the big hooey over this specific app. DVDXCOPY, DVD95copy, and Instant Copy have been around a while and they do a good job (better, in many opinions, than DVDShrink). Yes, they cost $$, but not MUCH money, and not a problem for those with enough cash to buy a burner & blank media.

[Kubrick]

I just don't get the big hooey over this specific app. DVDXCOPY, DVD95copy, and Instant Copy have been around a while and they do a good job (better, in many opinions, than DVDShrink). Yes, they cost $$, but not MUCH money, and not a problem for those with enough cash to buy a burner & blank media.

Have you tried DVDSHRINK???

From what I know of...DVDXCOPY will only allow 1:1, so that means a lot of DVD's will have to go onto 2 DVD-r's (Correct me if I'm wrong).

I think DVDSHRINK is worth the hype, because it totally lives up to it. It's free, it's incredibly easy to use, and unlike DVD2ONE, DVDSHRINK directly encodes from the source DVD, also DVDSHRINK has way more options, and the re-authoring function is a blast.

When Apple introduced the Mac OS, they weren't the only ones pioneering the GUI...even beyond XEROX and MICROSOFT, there were dozens of companies working on creating their own OS.

In the end, it's only the victors that are remembered. I believe that DVDSHRINK is a definite contender (I know...fighting words!).

But in the end, I think we are all winners, these apps are changing everything. I know for myself, the idea of using DVDx (A DVD to VCD app) has become nothing but a fading memory.

- Kubrick

[xistan]

First try didn't go well. I try again....

I must say that I'm impressed by your reply to my post. But I'm still not convinced...

For the record, I don't work for DVDSHRINK, nor am I getting paid.

Did I even mention anything about you beeing an employee or receiving payment? I just noticed that your post was good promo.

When was the last time you could just rent a CD?

Just go to your local library and take 'em home for free. Even better, isn't it?

Like I said, by next year...that'll be moot. Right now, I can buy DVD-R's
for $2 (Canadian) in bulk. By next year, that should drop down to
0.50 cents per disc. DVD-RW's will go for $120-160 by then (right now
they are $300-400).

Do you at least agree that by next year, more people will be prefering
to have DVD-RW's instead of just CD-RW's?

I agree with you. I don't think there will even be any CD-writers available in a few years. But I'm not so sure that the price drop everyone seems to be expecting on recordable DVD-media necessarily has to occur. If you look at the price/MB the DVD-discs are already very competitive, not very far from IDE HDD drives. I think the producers and the large media syndicates may very well be capable of keeping today's price levels. The DVD-bulk media is another story, but then again we have the compatibility issues. If I burn something, I want to be 99.9 % sure that I have access to my data (or whatever I store) is readable in my DVD-ROM or DVD-Player. This is not the case with all media today.

That's more the
fault of the DVD industry not rallying behind a firm standard in DVD-R
compatibility

May this be a way for the industry to avoid the piracy?? Maybe. I don't know.

DVDSHRINK makes it very easy to dump a lengthy movie onto as many DVD's as you'd like with the highest quality setting possible.

... but eventually you will wake up and realize that you have spent more money on empty discs than what the original would have costed you

To conlude this:

I understand why people are using DVD-shrink. I agree with you, it is an amazing application. At least at the first glance. I have been using many ways to replicate the process of DVD-shrink, including IfoEdit/ReMPEG, which is about as simple but takes a lifetime. But each time I have transcoded something I realize that I will always know that the original was better. This is something I have to live with. So why don't do it as good as possible? I have tried using DVD2One (not enough quality in my opinion), IfoEdit/CCE (which probably is the best, but a terribly messy way to do it!), InstantCopy (could be good but is way to buggy for me) and DVDShrink (worse quality than DVD2One but much better approach).

I have a hard time beliving that the apperance of a single application could be the end-of-days for the entertainment industry. No matter how good DVDShrink is.

/C

[MackemX]

exactly, what all the big hooey about ?!??!??!??!

DVD2One did what DVDShrink does now a while back, albeit a few mins longer

IC was the first to offer 'true' 1:1 backups but actually offer a decent quality

and finally the quality if you do use DVDShrink etc for a full 1:1 backup is completly crap just like DVD2One etc (ie 7GB into 4.37GB=naff quality)

so what's new apart from DVDShrink is free (is $50 that much to ask) and has incorporated a ripper and a reauthor mode that is neither use nor ornament????!??!??!??!

[xistan]

and finally the quality if you do use DVDShrink etc for a full 1:1 backup is completly crap just like DVD2One etc (ie 7GB into 4.37GB=naff quality)

That's my point exactly regarding the quality. Not even CCE (for 2000 bucks) could produce a decent result with transcoding 7GB into 4.37 GB.

/C

[MackemX]

DVDSHRINK makes it very easy to dump a lengthy movie onto as many DVD's as you'd like with the highest quality setting possible.

Also, the sheer simplicity of DVDSHRINK will enable even the most
amateur of DVD owners to make great looking backups.

it was easy before DVDShrink came about!, where have you been for the last 3 months?

So yes, you could backup your copy of LOTR onto two DVD-r's and maintain 1:1 perfection (keeping the menus, commentaries, etc...).

please do explain how, cos I can't see how you do it and if it's the way I'm thinking you are gonna say then it don't work so how on earth are you doing it?

the reauthor mode does not work with menu's even if you do keep in on one DVD-R, it even states this when you click the include menu's



I guess you gotta start getting your facts right cos I disagree with a lot of what you have just posted but I cannot be bothered to discuss them but I suggest you at least state the true facts before creating a discussion that will obviously get the negative response it's getting at the moment

If you stated the truth everyone would agree in most cases but this thread seems to be going the other way with people disagreeing

and the 'truth' is DVDShrink is not the tool that changed the DVD backup world cos DVD95Copy was the 1st to incorporate the BIG RED BUTTON style that produced 4.37Gb each time. InstantCopy was the first but has difficulties that can be overcome. The only difference is that you gotta rip the DVD 1st (wow so hard ) and even then I have doubts about the validity of the ripped files that DVDShrink produces

as for free, DVDDecreypter has always been free, so what's the harm in clicking 2 buttons instead of 1?

DVDShrink will get better but sorry to be harsh I think you are a little OTT blowing it's trumpet the way you are when you don't even fully understand DVShrinks workings and what it actually produces and the quality issue

p.s. Jon Johansen and his DeCSS was the original MPAA nightmare and all the backup tools above just amplify it cos DVDCopying has been going on for ages

[Kubrick]

First try didn't go well. I try again....

I must say that I'm impressed by your reply to my post. But I'm still not convinced...

Lol, at least you were impressed!

Did I even mention anything about you beeing an employee or receiving payment? I just noticed that your post was good promo.

Thank you.

I just didn't want people to think I'm a 'plant' or anything. Then again, the app is good enough to sell itself, so I guess I overreacted.

Just go to your local library and take 'em home for free. Even better, isn't it?

Point taken. Time I renew my library subscription...last used...circa 1989!

I have a hard time beliving that the apperance of a single application could be the end-of-days for the entertainment industry. No matter how good DVDShrink is.

DVDSHRINK just offers everything. It offers 1:1 copying, with no transcoding, so you'll get verbatim copies...so even the hard-core purists will get their pristine movie...onto two DVD-R's of course.

As for price, it'll set you back about $4 (Canadian) to make a perfect 1:1 copy of a DVD. However, even with level 1-3 compression on DVDshrink, it looks amazing. As for supplementaries? I compress to level 8 each time and it still is fantastic to look at.

Thanks for your reply. This is an amazing forum to rant and rave about this stuff!

- Kubrick

[MackemX]

DVDSHRINK just offers everything. It offers 1:1 copying, with no transcoding, so you'll get verbatim copies...so even the hard-core purists will get their pristine movie...onto two DVD-R's of course.

eh?!???!? DVDToolBox did this ages ago (aswell as Ifoedit previous) and again just in case you missed it DVDShrink does not keep valid menu's if you do split

As for price, it'll set you back about $4 (Canadian) to make a perfect 1:1 copy of a DVD. However, even with level 1-3 compression on DVDshrink, it looks amazing. As for supplementaries? I compress to level 8 each time and it still is fantastic to look at.

eh?!??!?? level 8 looks fantastic , anything less than level 3 for me and quality suffers but level 8 is beyond a joke

so what do you mean by perfect 1:1 copy?!???!, is that content cos it ain't quality

I'm sure you are taking the 'P' and basically looking for a flame war cos there is nothing valid about most of your statements

[xistan]

However, even with level 1-3 compression on DVDshrink, it looks amazing. As for supplementaries? I compress to level 8 each time and it still is fantastic to look at.

Excuse me for saying so, but maybe you should give your eye-doc a call, cause you need some glasses...

You can't be serious that you think that level 8 compression in DVDShrink looks "fantastic" !?!?!? I can agree that level 1-3 yields acceptable quality, but come on! Open your eyes!! There is NO transcoder/encoder on this planet that would produce "fantastic" results using that level of compression. No way!!

Interesting that you brought this up. Now I'm getting excited. Why? Because I did this test yesterday. I wanted to keep my main movie as good as possible and used level 8 compression for all the extra material. And as I said before: No way it looks "fantastic". Fantastically bad perhaps...

But why don't settle this argument, cause we could write replies to each other all day long. You like DVDShrink, I don't. You believe the end of the movie selling industry is near, I don't. You need glasses, I don't

/C

[MackemX]

But why don't settle this argument, cause we could write replies to each other all day long. You like DVDShrink, I don't. You believe the end of the movie selling industry is near, I don't. You need glasses, I don't

LOL
how long have you been in the DVD backup game Kubrick?

[Kubrick]

Hi MackemX

DVDSHRINK makes it very easy to dump a lengthy movie onto as many DVD's as you'd like with the highest quality setting possible.

Also, the sheer simplicity of DVDSHRINK will enable even the most
amateur of DVD owners to make great looking backups.

it was easy before DVDShrink came about!, where have you been for the last 3 months?

So yes, you could backup your copy of LOTR onto two DVD-r's and maintain 1:1 perfection (keeping the menus, commentaries, etc...).

please do explain how, cos I can't see how you do it and if it's the way I'm thinking you are gonna say then it don't work so how on earth are you doing it?

Scratch that, you're right, can't keep the menu screens, but you can keep the commentaries, supplementals (if there is room on the second disc).

Menu screens are by and large unimportant, and even an eyesore. Sometimes, I hate how overly animated a menu screen can get.

The most important items for a DVD (For myself) are:

1) Movie/Quality. Oftentimes Level 1/2, sometimes I'll go to 3 if the sups demands it.

2) Commentary track. Next to the english dialogue, I always aim to keep the commentary. Ditch the french/spanish dialogue tracks.

3) Supplementals. Making of, deleted scenes. Oftentimes, I won't even bother with the featurettes, because (as I said in another post), it does get boring listening to actors blather on over how much they love working with everyone else.

I guess you gotta start getting your facts right cos I disagree with a lot of what you have just posted but I cannot be bothered to discuss them but I suggest you at least state the true facts before creating a discussion that will obviously get the negative response it's getting at the moment

I've only been doing DVD backups for literally 14 days now. So I'm sorry
if I get a few pieces of info wrong. You're right...menu screens are worthless on the re-authoring mode. If you really want them though, you can always re-encode a DVD to maintain the movie quality and keep the menu screens. There are ways of completely compressing the hell out of the supplementaries so that more room will be given to the movie.

'truth' is DVDShrink is not the tool that changed the DVD backup world cos DVD95Copy was the 1st to incorporate the BIG RED BUTTON style that produced 4.37Gb each time. InstantCopy was the first but has difficulties that can be overcome. The only difference is that you gotta rip the DVD 1st (wow so hard ) and even then I have doubts about the validity of the ripped files that DVDShrink produces
as for free, DVDDecreypter has always been free, so what's the harm in clicking 2 buttons instead of 1?

Haven't used those apps, but the other app that was the most closely compared to DVDshrink was DVD2ONE. The problem with DVD2ONE is that you first have to rip your DVD onto the HD (eats time and HD space) and also you just don't have as much in terms of customizability as you do with DVDshrink.

Granted (and I know you would mention this if I didn't!) DVD2ONE will compress right to the 4.38gig, whereas DVDshrink won't (but I'm sure future versions will).

Phew! How did I do there?

My whole point is this.

You are right, as are a lot of posters in this forum. There are better and technically superior apps over DVDshrink.

DVDshrink still has bugs to work out of it.

However, for a FREEWARE app to rip directly from the DVD and transcode/copy on the fly to the HD with only a few mouseclicks is about as good as it can get.

All what needs to be built into DVDshrink (besides the normal bug fixes and Data-encode slider), is a BURN DVD function.

So while it's encoding, it could be burning onto a DVD-R!

Imagine that! A DVD-R 2Xbackup in 30min flat!

p.s. Jon Johansen and his DeCSS was the original MPAA nightmare and all the backup tools above just amplify it cos DVDCopying has been going on for ages

As early as 1993 you could copy a CD onto another CD, but record companies never made much noise over that. It's only when copying becomes so widespread and easy that they'll begin to worry.

For VHS, the movie industry by and large didn't have to worry about that. Even on SP, VHS copies still weren't the best, and people were happy buying VHS movies used (since they were so cheap).

I believe that once DVD's begin to sell for piss cheap used, people will start buying DVD's again.

But new? I think the days of sell-through are numbered.

Thanks for your reply.

- Kubrick

[MackemX]

I've only been doing DVD backups for literally 14 days now.

now I understand

sorry for any insults or offence I may have given but I was under the impression you knew about DVD backup tools a little more than you obviously do cos when you stated that using DVDx (DVD to VCD) was a fading memory it gave me that impression you had been in the game a while and especially longer than 2 weeks

but obviously for a newbie to DVD-DVD-R backups, DVDshrink is a marvellous tool generally cos it's free but there are also other tools out there apart from DVDShrink. It's the latest to hit the streets with a couple more features and the great price of $0

no doubt in time the perfect tool will arrive and the next to try looks like DVDClone from Elby that promises quite a lot (not free tho)

info HERE

[xistan]

I will stand in line for apologies. I also got the impression that you were very experienced in this area.

/C

[Kubrick]

Hi Xistan,

You can't be serious that you think that level 8 compression in DVDShrink looks "fantastic" !?!?!? I can agree that level 1-3 yields acceptable quality, but come on! Open your eyes!! There is NO transcoder/encoder on this planet that would produce "fantastic" results using that level of compression. No way!!

Alright...as my Daddy would say in french...'Du calme! Du calme!"

Interesting that you brought this up. Now I'm getting excited. Why? Because I did this test yesterday. I wanted to keep my main movie as good as possible and used level 8 compression for all the extra material. And as I said before: No way it looks "fantastic". Fantastically bad perhaps...

I guess in this forum, I'm going to have to go into hyper-detail. Where every single minute piece of info I'll write shall be deeply debated and hotly contested.

Yes, I stand by what I said over Level 8 compression...WHEN USED ON SUPPLEMENTARIES!

How many times do you watch the supplementaries? Seriously? If it's an amazing making-of documentary (Like on my Rocky Deluxe DVD), I would just dump it over to a second DVD-R.

However, by and large, the majority of DVD supplementaries are just basic making-of with a few interviews. Stuff I'd watch, maybe twice in my lifetime?

There isn't any major lighting/directorial innovations that I'm missing out on watching a director talk about his film.

So yes, it's a small sacrifice to cram a movie at Level 1/2 quality and the supplementaries at level 8 onto a single layer DVD-R. I'm not forcing you to do it either! If you want, you can always just dump the sups over to a seperate DVD-R at 1:1.

So...Du calme! Du Calme!

But why don't settle this argument, cause we could write replies to each other all day long. You like DVDShrink, I don't. You believe the end of the movie selling industry is near, I don't. You need glasses, I don't

I need sleep right at this point, but I'll take your word that you don't like DVDshrink.

I'll just tinker with this app for a few more...years?

As always, fun to gab on this forum!

- Kubrick

[Kubrick]

I will stand in line for apologies. I also got the impression that you were very experienced in this area.

/C

Lol!

To MackemX and Xistan,

No worries. And thanks for being so courteous in apologizing (This is a damned good forum, I'm really liking the people/posts in here!).

To clarify, I'm a longtime Mac user and for years I've been working in film/television (NO! I'm not 'that' Kubrick!). I bought my WinXP system a year ago and back then, I only knew about VCD/DiVX, and realized that backing up DVD's was a bit of a pipe dream.

When I read about DVD2ONE and THEN DVDshrink came out of nowhere...the very next day I ran over to my computer store and bougth a LG-4080b DVD-RW.

For literally the next three days, I didn't do much except, work, eat, sleep and BURN, BURN, BURN! I literally went though a 50 DVD-R spindle in roughly four days!

So...you could imagine how excited I am over this!

Regardless, thanks for your retorts and replies. It's all in fun!

- Kubrick

[xistan]

Hi Kubrick,

Just couldn't let this one go by without a comment...

Yes, I stand by what I said over Level 8 compression...WHEN USED ON SUPPLEMENTARIES! ...
...

Stuff I'd watch, maybe twice in my lifetime?

1. No caps necessary here...
2. If you settle with low quality extras, fine! But why bother including them at all if you feel that you won't watch them after copying?

Since your last post I've realized that your experience in DVD-backup is made up by DVDShrink and DVD2One. This explains many of your arguments. I agree with you that DVDShrink is good and easy. I can even go that far as to say that it's better than DVD2One (the layout and work process, not the transcoding quality). But compared to the world you have left to discover (starting with InstantCopy)... Well comments not necessary.

I don't speak french but I think I have a pretty good idea what you're saying.

Sweet dreams and happy shrinking! Fun to argue with you!

/C

[daesdaemar]

DVDShrink is an incredible application and will make it very easy for many people to copy many DVDs. However, it's not the ultimate solution for the masses. Some movies (Spirited Away as example) do not copy properly. They need to be ripped first, followed by proper "file" selection. Also, burning DVDs that play on most DVD players is still a struggle for many. So, even though I agree that it's a "milestone" app, you still need places like this forum, and a lot of experience to consistently not burn a bunch of coasters. I LOVE DVDShrink.

[nerdboy69]

14 days or 14 months, either way, Kubrik has an very valid point, to which he has added his (perhaps enthusiatically extrapolated) opinion. And flame him all you want, but you can't prove his predictions wrong until you have hind-sight - it is after all, just opinion.

DVD Shrink IS (in my most humble opinion) a break-through that will have a definite influence over and above IC7, DVD2One, DVD95Copy, etc. But, these packages have already made their impact. They have resulted in someone creating something of near equivalent which is FREE and VERY easy to use.

The biggest leaps here, which seem to have been lost in the semantics of the arguments, can be summed up in 2 words: FREE and EASE. Free is easily explained but in itself not the clincher - IFOedit is free, VOBedit is free, etc. It is the combination of free and easy (just like myself). I reckon I could teach my grandmother to use this with a bit of patience (and she is long dead). No need for another product to RIP/Decrypt. You can do the whole process (bar the actual burning) in the one simple program. BRILLIANT!!!

So although I don't necessarily agree with the predictions, I do agree with the impact.

Oh yeah, and as for Level 8 being horendously bad quality ... give us all a break. It is extremely watchable. Well above VCD, which I also declare as extremely watchable. The whole purpose of all this is to have something you can enjoy watching, not nit-picking. If you are so anal that this is a real concern, I am glad I have not seen your laundry.

DVD Shrink is not perfect, but it is yet a babe. It will grow. Let it.

Flame away ... I am wearing my asbestos jocks (undies/Y-fronts/boxers/lingerie/G-string for those who need an Aussie translator) ... hit me where it hurts.

[MackemX]

the biggest breakthrough is that it can be legally obtained for free!

the ripping is questionable as quite a few have complained about it, and the speed is not really that much quicker ripping it direct than ripping with DVDDecrypter then processing after anyway cos it slows the processing down

as for the quality issue again, this will never go away because it's all in the eye of the beholder and the means they view it on and this will always cause disagreement so I won't go there cos it's simply a waste of time argueing with someone who cannot see the same picture I see, but it does seem strange when I have friends relatives visit and I use them as test dummies they can see the 'true' quality differences between CCE/IC/DVD95Copy/DVD2One/DVDShrink etc without me telling them

what I disagree with is that people reckon anything lower than level 3 etc on DVDShrink is excellent quality

all backup tools produce watchable quality even at low levels and the level that keeps users happy varies from one to the next user so it's bound to cause disagreement

if DVDShrink created quality that was comparable to that of CCE & IC at all levels then that would be a story to tell but it would have to change it's method of processing cos transcoding has a long way to go to beat encoding on the quality front

the tool that includes DVDDecrypter reliability(not a neccessity tho due to legal reasons), the setup of IC/DVDShrink producing 4.37Gb with the option of transcoding or encoding at different %'s and can actually re-author DVD's by succesfully stripping the crap will be a breakthrough

and if someone does make that tool, I can guarantee it WON'T be free

I can do all that now with the free tools and IC, but when it's automated that will be one helluva tool and I don't mind paying for it

I was thrilled when I first tried DVDShrink, but the thrill soon wore off when I saw the downsides to it also and the lack of authoring features

something else will be released soon and most simplicity/ain't fussy bowt quality users will jump on that bandwagon but as of now there are plenty of people using CCE/IC/DVD95Copy etc that still won't use DVDShrink 100% of the time even if it is free!

don't get me wrong it's a great tool and I applaud DVDShrink with his work and hopefully it will continue to improve to include the features to keep everyone happy

[xistan]

14 days or 14 months, either way, Kubrik has an very valid point, to which he has added his (perhaps enthusiatically extrapolated) opinion. And flame him all you want, but you can't prove his predictions wrong until you have hind-sight - it is after all, just opinion.

Flaming?? Easy brother... Just expressing my opinions...

DVD Shrink IS (in my most humble opinion) a break-through that will have a definite influence over and above IC7, DVD2One, DVD95Copy, etc. But, these packages have already made their impact. They have resulted in someone creating something of near equivalent which is FREE and VERY easy to use.

The biggest leaps here, which seem to have been lost in the semantics of the arguments, can be summed up in 2 words: FREE and EASE. Free is easily explained but in itself not the clincher - IFOedit is free, VOBedit is free, etc. It is the combination of free and easy (just like myself). I reckon I could teach my grandmother to use this with a bit of patience (and she is long dead). No need for another product to RIP/Decrypt. You can do the whole process (bar the actual burning) in the one simple program. BRILLIANT!!!

No one is arguing about this. The idea of DVDShrink is excellent. And it will definately be the best DVD-backup application out there when they get their transcoder to deliver acceptable quality.

Oh yeah, and as for Level 8 being horendously bad quality ... give us all a break. It is extremely watchable. Well above VCD, which I also declare as extremely watchable.

Again the little differences. I don't find VCD extremely watchable. I don't find VHS watchable either

If you are so anal that this is a real concern, I am glad I have not seen your laundry.

Prefer not to comment on that one.

DVD Shrink is not perfect, but it is yet a babe. It will grow. Let it.

Yes. I am very excited to see where this little app will end up. Just claiming that in it's current state its nothing but a very interesting approach to a process that is a little bit more complex than what it seems to be at a first glance. Many have tried, most have fallen, a few have passed the test. My guess is that DVDShrink in a year or so may have undergone the improvements necessary to make it a real challenger in the DVD-backup war.

Another guess would be that they end up like IfoEdit. The developers are just too valuable to be developing free software so they are offered a huge salary from a company in the business and are forbidden or too busy to work on their own (much better) software. Time will tell...

Flame away ... I am wearing my asbestos jocks (undies/Y-fronts/boxers/lingerie/G-string for those who need an Aussie translator) ... hit me where it hurts.

You could leave them all in the drawer. No one is trying to flame you. Only expressing their different opinions. That what makes this forum such a nice place.

/C

[xistan]

the tool that includes DVDDecrypter reliability(not a neccessity tho due to legal reasons), the setup of IC/DVDShrink producing 4.37Gb with the option of transcoding or encoding at different %'s and can actually re-author DVD's by succesfully stripping the crap will be a breakthrough

Cheers to that mate.

The interesting thing is that all that source code already exists but in different people's minds. IC/DVDShrink setup, IfoEdit stripping, CCE encoding. Could it really be so hard to put everything of this into the same application??

Apparently...

/C

[Gazorgan]

4 Disk SVCD's (3.2 GB) are very commonly traded online now. Small jump to a DVDR image.

SVCD creation used to be a long and cumbersome process, it's now click...wait...burn. DVD backup used to be long and cumbersome, now there are numerous click and go apps. It's the same path mp3's ent down,a nd yes, history is repeating itself.

[Kubrick]

4 Disk SVCD's (3.2 GB) are very commonly traded online now. Small jump to a DVDR image.

SVCD creation used to be a long and cumbersome process, it's now click...wait...burn. DVD backup used to be long and cumbersome, now there are numerous click and go apps. It's the same path mp3's ent down,a nd yes, history is repeating itself.

Personally, I think SVCD/VCD's days are numbered in *some* respects.

The best deal would be to create a storage format which can compress a DVD down to an MPEG-4/DiVX file with all the trimmings (commentaries, subtitles, deleted scenes, functional menu screens).

Using MPEG-4 compression, you could totally cram an average dual-layer DVD down to 1.2 gigs and once downloaded, it would just be a matter of having a decompressor app which can convert the file into a ready to burn MPEG-2 DVD image.

3.2 gigs is still a big broadband committment, compounded by the fact that a lot of ISP's are now starting to enact bandwidth capping (the bastards!). Here in Toronto, if you are using DSL, once you go over 10 gigs, you'll have to pay $8(Cnd) per each extra gig!

I'm using Rogers Cable, but as of this summer...bandwidth capping will happen also for me...so bye-bye to my 30 gig per week downloads!

So on average, a DVD quality movie with basic features, (such as chapter stops, optional commentaries) can result in the 700meg range. Since it's DiVX/MPEG-4, transferring it to DVD-R would be a breeze.

All what we need is an app which can do this!

Hmmm...it would be neat if DVDshrink had a 'compress for CD-R/MPEG-4/DiVX' function. That would mean you could make a fully featured DVD on a CD-r and hence a standardization for web-transmission.

I know...(getting ahead of myself!). I just know that for the longest period of time...everything we are talking about here on this website was iffy at best. Now? It's becoming old news!

And I loooove it when things get *old*...fast!

That just would be cool, downloading fully featured near-ready to burn (with only an MPEG-4>MPEG-2 decompression) DVD's off of the net. At 700megs per basic DVD, that I'd buy for a dollar!

- Kubrick

DVDshrink score: 63+ DVD's shrunk!...and counting!

[energy80s]

That just would be cool, downloading fully featured near-ready to burn (with only an MPEG-4>MPEG-2 decompression) DVD's off of the net. At 700megs per basic DVD, that I'd buy for a dollar!

The only problem is that DivX looks dreadful when converted to MPEG2. It doesn't even look all that good in the first place. I have a few DivX DVD rips and they really don't compare to the original DVD ripped to MPEG2. DivX just like MP3 is a great way of swapping reasonable quality video but nothing beats a higher quality source. A lot of people (myself included) used to think that 128k MP3's were great quality, now we know just how shite they really are and I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole any longer. The same will happen with DivX, in that the only way to get very high quality is to up the bitrate and the file size, and that sort of defeats the object of the exercise in the first place!

[JasonK]

Most original DVD-R's have noticable quality problems when you are viewing on high quality equipment (good progressive scan DVD players and HDTV), so a lot of us are willing to accept much longer encoding times with CCE to preserve maximum quality, and won't accept any reencoding/transcoding with DVD2one, IC, DVDshrink, etc. DVDshrink is ok if you can make it fit with cropping and stream selection, but I wouldn't use it for reencoding.

Forget the mpeg4/divx downloads if you care anything about quality. I don't touch them!

[energy80s]

Yeah, although just remember that progressive scan and HDTV are irrelevant outside of America, and that most TV screen sizes are less than 28". The "home cinema" thing is still really just a pipe dream for most people.

[yongkuk]

To all of you CCE fetishists out there. How many of you paid 2000 quid for your great little bit of software. I bet you didn't, yes it is fantastic but at that price it should shoot the movie for you