Converting Avi to VCD

[Fozzee]

Right lets hope I explain this properly.
I am trying to convert movies of for example 1hr 27 mins to 1 x 80min VCD.
If I use the unlock setting in TMPGEnc and lower the audio rate my video does not play properly.
There are a few blips in the audio and the odd frame of pixelation in the video.
Is this because.......
a) My DVD player does like anything but standard compliance??
b) I am not altering the advanced video settings correctly to keep the video part compliant.

Basically what I am looking for is 2 templates. With the video settings set up correctly for NTSC and PAL VCD but an unlocked audio bitrate so I can test this properly.
Hope someone out there understands what I am saying.

These videos play fine if I encode with standard compliance.

Cheers

Fozzee

[Fozzee]

So no one has the slightest idea what I'm talking about then

Fozzee

[mats.hogberg]

Yes, but how can we tell? If your player plays standard VCD fine, but doesn't if you change the audio bit rate (and nothing else), then your player obviously can't take off specs VCD.
This is what happens if you use the VCD Wizard, then unlock and change audio bit rate.
If you leave the video part alone, it's set at what it's supposed to be for VCD.
Why not try a KVCD template just for fun?

/Mats

[Fozzee]

Well, how do you unlock from the wizard??
The only way i've found to unlock is from the main window.
And then the video is not VCD compliant you have to change the settings.

After further study it seems my player starts to play up at an audio bitrate under 160.

Fozzee

[DJRumpy]

Fozzee, it's more likely your playe simply doesn't support the VCD 2.0 spec. If you've narrowed it down to a problem with audio under 160kb, and you've kept all of the other settings the same for the test, then I'd say you've nailed it as a player compatability problem, and not a TMPGenc setting issue.

[Fozzee]

It does support VCD 2.0 cos that's what it says when it starts a VCD.
I think it's just particular about the compliancy of the VCD.
The more i lower the audio bitrate more blips appear in the video.
With standard VCD it plays fine.
I was just trying to sneak a tad more than 80 mins onto 1 CD. Rather than burn 2 x VCD.
KVCD does not work on my player in response to the previous users comment.
My player also plays a variety of SVCD formats, including CVD 352 x 576, 2520, 48hz audio.

Fozzee

[DJRumpy]

Fozzee, is the audio CBR, or VBR? I'm assuming the mpeg is also CBR?

[Fozzee]

Ermmmmmmm
How do I tell?
The video is CBR.

Fozzee

[Fozzee]

The weird thing is when I load it into Nero i don't get the non-compliant message even tho I have changed the bitrate.
But if I do the same thing with Main Concept the resulting video comes up non compliant in Nero.

Fozzee

[Fozzee]

The source is a divx with the audio stripped to a wav file using goldwave.

Fozzee

[DJRumpy]

You can try looking at the MPEG properties during playback in WinDVD, or PowerDVD to see it's full properies. You can also load the MPEG into the DEMULTIPLEX tool in TMPGenc, but it only reports CBR/VBR type on the video stream. Unfortunately, the MPEG Properites tool from the tools section does not report audio. I also tried Bitrate Viewer. It too only reported video stream info.

I can't believe I haven't got a single tool that will tell me if an MP2 is VBR, or CBR. I guess the only way to be sure, would be to re-encode in VBR, or CBR. Let me dig some more...

[Fozzee]

Surely TMPGenc re-encodes it to CBR anyway??
To match the video??

Fozzee

[DJRumpy]

No luck finding any tool that displays CBR/VBR info for the audio stream. I can't believe one doesn't seem to exist. Perhaps someone knows of one.

The encoding method for the audio isn't linked to the video in any way. You can have a VBR video stream, and CBR for audio, and vice versa. The Video CD's spec specifies CBR for audio though. I think this is also the case for VCD 2.0

[greengate69]

Fozzee

When you unlock the template and change the audio bitrate, have you also set the file type as MPEG1-VCD (Non Standard) WITHIN TMPGEnc (on the Settings/System Tab). If you leave it as MPEG1-VCD, then the program will try to standardise and make it compliant as it multiplexes it (even if you have selected non-compliant options)

I had all sorts of problems with XVCDs until I found this out. If you are already doing this forget the above !

[Fozzee]

So are you saying it should be NON-STANDARD???
If so why would that cause problems exactly??
Because yes it did say Mpeg1-VCD.


Fozzee

[Fozzee]

Also the 192 and 160 bitrate played fine. It was when i went lower the problems started.

Fozzee

[Fozzee]

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!

First sample after doing what you suggested.
IT WORKED!!!
I encoded 5 mins to 128bitrate too!
And it played fine in the DVD player.

Nice one GREENGATE
Will I be able to slightly lower video bitate too??

Cheers

Fozzee

[Fozzee]

WOW!!
I just fit a 1hr 40min on one CD by lowering bitrate to 950 and audio to 128 it plays fine.
Picture still very watchable.

Once again GREENGATE nice tip.

Fozzee

[greengate69]

Glad it worked !

Also, in the "how to" guides on here there is one for doing this using the Wizard. If you save the unlocked template once you have altered it you can select it from the Wizard, which will also let you play aroud with the bitrates to fill exactly 100% of the VCD. Using the 2-pass VBR option (Video Tab under settings) instead of just a lower CBR setting should give you better quality, although take longer (2x) to encode.

I find the bitrate calculator using the Wizard very useful. For normal films without a great deal of high motion I have found that 2-pass VBR with Motion Search Precision set to High Quality (Slow) gives very decent and predicatable results. If you are going down to 128K I would definitely recommend using the external audio encoder (TooLame) and bitrate converter (SSRC) under the audio tab.

[Fozzee]

I did that m8
I saved it as a template.
But I thought VCD was supposed to be CBR??
Toolame encoded audio doesn't work on my standalone. The TMGEnc sound is fine for me anyway.

I'm happy enuff with the results I'm getting at present. If I'm not careful I'm in danger of spending all my time tweaking rather than watching

Once again thanks for the tip.

Fozzee

[DJRumpy]

For compliance, your VCD should be CBR. VBR would produce an xVCD, and you know the issues with that.

Tweaking is half the fun though. I still enjoy the manual method...