Thinkin' about a Mac

[JackTrust]

Hello, for the past few years I've been doing all my video editing, ripping, etc. on a PC. I've heard good and bad things about using Macs. What I'd like to know is, are there programs such as SmartRipper, DVD2AVI, TMPGEnc, that can be used on a Mac or are there as stable of programs out there to do just this. I know the formats of AVI, MPEG and RM are compatible with Mac, I just want to make sure that what i'm used to can be incorporated into this new purchase.
Also, is imovie and idvd good editing programs, or should I stick with Final Cut when it comes to Mac?

Thanks for any and all help!

[tgpo]

None of those programs are available for the mac, but we do have programs that do the exact same things as they do.....only better

I don't understand what you mean when you said if you should wait for Final Cut when it comes to the mac....it's already come to the mac....

Yes iMovie and iDVD are both very powerful, yet simple tools that are great!!

[SCB]

I don't understand what you mean when you said if you should wait for Final Cut when it comes to the mac....it's already come to the mac....

Probably what you meant tgpo but just to clarify, Final Cut is Mac only; there is no PC version and never will be.

[galactica]

Perhaps he's talking about Final Cut Pro 4?!
But its out and ready for purchase.

Whatever the cause, Mac's can definately do the same things that "SmartRipper, DVD2AVI, TMPGEnc" can do.

OSeX is perhaps the most powerful Ripper (-> .vob, .m2v, .ac3, dvd folder, dvd image and quicktime exports)
ffmpegx is the most powerful converter for all types (divx, mpeg1, mpeg2 etc.)
Forty Two is great for one step converting, just select your desired output and push start (assuming you have the dvd in hand)

Quicktime Pro even has an encorporated mpeg export component if you purchase it (or have dvd stuido pro)

All in all id say you can do most everything on a mac equavalent with the freeware programs.

[garywilk]

OK, I'll get prepared to be flamed, maybe even banned, but here goes.

First, in an attempt to appease the devoted Mac followers, I've cleared and started over this post about four times to try to avoid the inevitable Mac vs. PC flame wars with very limited success. There are plenty of places on the Internet already where the PC/Mac battle never ends, so I'll try to keep this as non-inflammatory as possible, but the facts are bound to annoy some people.

Think about the question you are asking: Basically, will I have all the same choices for the Mac as I have for the PC? "(No)...but we do have programs that do the exact same things as they do.....only better." Expect to see that a lot. Sometimes it might even be true. It's one of those Apple truisms, kind of like the requirement that you use the word "elegant" whenever you refer to the Mac or its OS.

Switching from PC to Mac isn't just buying a different piece of hardware - you are joining a new church (a very different church), the first tenets of which include never questioning the ultimate wisdom of Apple and Steve Jobs and always maintaining the faith. You must accept the commandment that even though you have fewer hardware and software choices that they are better ones. Form is every bit as important as function. You must accept the idology that you will be expected to pay more for your hardware because it is "better and you get more for your money" and accept the fact that the definition of "better" and "more" will vary more than Bill Clinton's definition of "sex." You must learn to accept all the rationalizations for why your Mac cost a lot more than an equivalent (or faster) PC, because otherwise why would you spend more to get the same thing? And you are not just buying a piece of hardware, but also a piece of art roughly on a par with Van Gogh's Starry Night.

Meanwhile, expect to start looking for the special "Mac" indicator in this and other forums which means that this particular question deals with a specific Mac problem, oops I mean "opportunity" (Macs don't have problems).

Buying a Mac means you are joing an extremely passionate group of people who are not afraid to swim the opposite direction from the mainstream. This is a trait I admire (really!). But just be aware of all the baggage this will involve. You will be choosing the "path less travelled." You will see things that many others won't, some good and some bad. You won't be going it alone, but you also won't have the support of the 90+% of the people that went the other way either.

So ask yourself this: What would be the reason I'd buy a Mac instead of a PC? I'm sure there are many here that will be glad to supply those reasons, but the most meaninfgul will be the ones you come up with. There are some people for whom the Mac is the best choice, if for no other reason than they are already convinced of it. There are also some people for whom the Palm is the best choice. And there are some people for whom running Unix on an Onyx2 is the best choice.

There are plenty of things to hate about the PC, Microsoft, etc. But yet the vast majority of people running desktop or notebook computers are using it. Mac users would argue that far more people drive Fords than BMWs, a valid argument, though I'm not sure I'd agree that the PC is a Ford or that the Mac is a BMW even if the price ratio is similar. But even if that were true, think about this: If I had enough money I'd love a BMW, but my Camry gets me back and forth to work quite comfortably for a fraction of what a BMW would cost, making it the most practical car for me. Read up on the law of diminishing return.

I'm sure following this you will see (among the flames) a variety of reasons for buying a Mac instead of a PC. Feel free to admire the passion - I do. But be critical and analytical, too. When someone says, "The Mac is better!" ask how. And don't settle for that old bromide "The OS is more elegant." Once again, how? You will see many references to OSX being based on Unix or BeOS or some Unix offshoot or derivitive. Yes, that's all very nice, but HOW does that translate into a machine that is better suited to my task? Get concrete answers, don't settle for vague passionate devotionals. When someone says the new (they're always "new") dual-proc G4 is faster than any PC ask to see the tests that compare the dual-proc G4 to a DUAL PROCESSOR PC, not the single processor models they usually compare it with (compare apples to apples, pardon the pun).

Take a very cold hard look at what you're really getting for your money. For instance, no, clock speed is not an absolute indicator of overall computer speed. AMD has been saying this for years and even Intel itself is now starting to agree. But on the other hand, it isn't irrelevent either. For a 1 GHz Mac to accomplish more work than a 2 GHz PC it would (obviously) have to be at least twice as efficient. It isn't. The PowerPC chip is often slightly more efficient than a similar x86 chip running at the same speed, but nowhere near twice. I saw one cross-platform test on a DV editing site where a dual proc G4 with two 1.25 GHz procs (2.5 GHz for the sake of argument) was roughly as fast as a single proc 3 GHz P4. About 20% more efficient if I did the math right, though there are some functions where the Mac's efficiency is much higher. For instance, Apple typically tweaks the Mac for fast test results in Photoshop's Gaussian blur function. If your whole world revolves around performing Gaussian blur in Photoshop then by all means get a Mac. If you have a little wider needs then give it some more thought.

If you're really serious about considering a Mac then the best thing to do would probably be to try one out for awhile if that's possible. Going to an Apple store might be a good idea, but keep in mind that the primary mission of the people there is selling them, so don't expect any objectivity. You wouldn't go to a Nissan dealership and expect to hear the strong points on Toyotas, would you? And for fun go to IHateApple.com.

It really is a completely different mindset in the Mac world. They have an agenda, something to prove. PC users usually don't have anything to prove - the market has already proven it for them. Even to those of us that build our own (something not generally possible in the Mac world), it's generally just a box sitting under the desk that helps us accomplish anything from answering our e-mail to editing our home videos. I'm not looking for visitors to my home to remark how "different" my computer looks. Perhaps earlier I should have compared the Macs to Picasso instead of Van Gogh. If your idea of style is to have your computer look like a skinny arm and a hand sticking out of a boob then the I-Mac is for you. If you think that there's a possibility that you might want to upgrade your monitor without replacing your entire machine (not at all unusual) then maybe you should look elsewhere.

I could go on for much longer, but this should be enough to hopefully encourage you to think carefully about the path you are considering, as well as bring on a torrent of flames against anyone who would dare question the superiority of the Mac. Already been there and have not just the T-shirt but the whole wardrobe. This is where things will start to get interesting . . .

[ZippyUK]

I am also considering the swap to mac - I like a challenge.

I intend to buy a 2nd hand mac to try out first, a G4 400 (AGP) is quite cheap if you look at ebay.

Anyway I wanted to know what sort of speed the G4 can transcode MPEG 2 video, over different processor speeds, not just top of the line dual processors.

I know my P4 2.53 can manage up to 1.8x real time or 41 fps.

Is there any highly optimised encoding software for the G4, like Cinema Craft Encoder is on the PC?

Thanks Neil

[AntnyMD]

They have an agenda, something to prove. PC users usually don't have anything to prove - the market has already proven it for them.

I suppose it doesn't hurt to insert agenda items of your own every now and then, to keep those potential switchers in line. Crack that whip, buddy!

[the future]

Oh dear. Ok, it's a dirty job, but someone has to do it, I guess...

Think about the question you are asking: Basically, will I have all the same choices for the Mac as I have for the PC?

The answer is yes, pure and simple. Name us one thing you can do on a PC you can't do on the Mac. Really, come on, do it.
The only point I will give you is games, there are much more for Wintel folks. Solution: get a Mac and a Playstation2 if you're into gaming.

you are joining a new church (a very different church), the first tenets of which include never questioning the ultimate wisdom of Apple and Steve Jobs

Go read the forums on some Mac sites like macrumors.com. You will see that the average Mac user is in no way less critical than the average PC user. Just more eloquent and friendly, probably.

You must accept the idology that you will be expected to pay more for your hardware because it is "better and you get more for your money" ... You must learn to accept all the rationalizations for why your Mac cost a lot more than an equivalent (or faster) PC

Have you ever owned a Mac? The build quality of the hardware alone is incomparable to cheap PC boxes. You get loads of great Apple software for free (software that is Mac only, by the way). If you build a PC with the same quality components Apple uses, the PC won't be much cheaper at all, actually.

And you are not just buying a piece of hardware, but also a piece of art roughly on a par with Van Gogh's Starry Night.

Ok, it seems you want to express that you don't care about design. Fair enough, but there are others that do. And there is no denying that Apple computers look absolutely gorgeous. They win design awards all the time for a reason. But you like to live in your ugly beige world, I suppose.

There are plenty of things to hate about the PC, Microsoft, etc. But yet the vast majority of people running desktop or notebook computers are using it.

Yeah, because 99% of them never used a Mac. Hell, most of them don't even KNOW there's something else out there but Windows. Oh, and it's much easier to 'borrow' a copy of Word or Excel as everyone knows a PC user who is willing to 'borrow' it.

If I had enough money I'd love a BMW, but my Camry gets me back and forth to work quite comfortably for a fraction of what a BMW would cost, making it the most practical car for me. Read up on the law of diminishing return.

Oh god, read up the terms 'fun', 'style', 'excitement' and 'joie de vivre' in a dictionary, will you? Everybody who can afford a BMW and drives a (beige?) Camry is INSANE!

You will see many references to OSX being based on Unix or BeOS or some Unix offshoot or derivitive. Yes, that's all very nice, but HOW does that translate into a machine that is better suited to my task?

For example in the way that it NEVER EVER crashes, thus letting you do what you wanna do without any fuss whatsoever. Or in the way that there are tons of Unix/Linux apps being ported to OSX because it's very simple to do. Or in the way that with X11 you can even use those apps right away, without waiting for them to be ported.

For a 1 GHz Mac to accomplish more work than a 2 GHz PC it would (obviously) have to be at least twice as efficient. It isn't. The PowerPC chip is often slightly more efficient than a similar x86 chip running at the same speed, but nowhere near twice. ... About 20% more efficient if I did the math right, though there are some functions where the Mac's efficiency is much higher.

It all comes down to how well the app in question is optimized for the processor that's being used. G4s incorporate a vector unit called Altivec. If the program takes full advantage of that, the fastest G4s are up to par with the fastest Intel/AMD processors.
The supposed 'speed gap', which is relevant only for VERY VERY processor-intense apps (like pro video and audio stuff) anyways and very much irrelevant for a 'normal' user, will be closed very soon, too, as the next generation PowerPC processors (PPC 970 from IBM, a derivative from their Power4 chip) is just around the corner (watch out for WWDC, June 23-26...) and will very probably put the Mac back on top in the 'speed race'.

If you're really serious about considering a Mac then the best thing to do would probably be to try one out for awhile if that's possible.

A good idea, for a change.

And for fun go to IHateApple.com.

Don't forget to wear your beige sweater while going there.

I'm not looking for visitors to my home to remark how "different" my computer looks.

Yeah, stay on the middle of the road, always. Don't stand out. Go with the stream. It's much safer that way.

If your idea of style is to have your computer look like a skinny arm and a hand sticking out of a boob then the I-Mac is for you.

First of all, it's called an iMac. This misspelling of yours alone shows beyond any reasonable doubt that you are a PC user and have no clue about Macs at all. The design of the iMac is both space-saving on your desktop and with it's 'floating' display ergonomically wonderful. That's why it's in no way JUST form, it's form and function in a most brilliant synthesis. As mentioned before, the iMac also won a lot of design awards; those ALWAYS judge form AND function, that's what 'design' is ALL ABOUT, for god's sake. But maybe you know more about design than design award jurys the world over.

If you think that there's a possibility that you might want to upgrade your monitor without replacing your entire machine (not at all unusual) then maybe you should look elsewhere.

Indeed you should. You should get a PowerMac.

... bring on a torrent of flames against anyone who would dare question the superiority of the Mac.

No, not anyone. Just those without any points to make, like yourself.


In summary Macs are beautiful pieces of hardware that contain the most intuitive and user-friendly OS there is. There is a Mac software for every imaginable task you could ever think of, a lot of it better than comparable PC software; and yes, you can even use Microsoft Office, if you must. If you're a pro user, Macs are going to be faster than PCs quite soon. Macs are innovative, as a lot of new hardware options go into Macs first (we had wireless networking for YEARS, you know, and now we're going 'extreme'...) (did I mention Firewire 800 which is roughly TWICE as fast as USB 2.0?) (don't even get me STARTED on the backlit keyboard of the 17 inch aluminium Powerbook, auto-detecting surrounding light levels and all...).

Don't forget, almost every Mac user has used PCs before and made an educated decision to go Mac. Most PC users only know Macs from store shelves.

Go get a Mac. You'll never look back.

[galactica]

Here Here.......... "Applause" and the crowd goes wild!!!!!!!!!
Encore, Encore!

New York Times claims "the future's latest essay on dvdrhlep.com is perhaps the best piece of writing anyone has read lately. Not only insighftul but witty and fun to read."

"fun for everyone" claims the Washington Post

8)

Ok, enough fun. This is supposed to be a video forum. There are enough sites out there where we can talk this up some more.
Back to business

[spiderman2k1]

I was also think of a mac. But you really have to look into what you want to do. I do not care what people say there are thing that a PC can do and a MAC can not and there are thing that a MAC can do that a PC can not do and there are thing Linux can to that that window's and MAC OS can not do and there are thing that UNIX can do that Windows and MAC OS and Linux can not do. It all comes down to software software. windows has gotten better with windows 2000 and XP. 95 98 and Me suck. I my self love to rip DVD's and use DVD2ONE. DVD2one is coming out for MAC but you have to wait for it. I also do tv capture's of thing I like and make SVCD and DVD's I use a really time MPEG 2 card. This is some thing MAC can not do there is no real time MPEg 2 card out yet. I would say if you can find every thing you want to do on a computer and if MAC does it all get the MAC OS X is unix alot better then window's. The one thing MAC make's all it hardware and it's OS so it's less buggy then window's but you pay for a better product. Not to say you can to make a good window's PC is you put it together your self.. i my self might get a MAC some day but I do not know.

[SCB]

C'mon guys, you know gary is right. The only reasons I bought my Mac is because it looks "pretty" and because "Steve said so".

Yeah, it's slow and it can't run any software; not even WarCraft II! But hey, form over function, right?

I only wish my Mac could run that one super cool prog that uber-cool PC users always talk about. Ahhh, what's it called...........?

Windoze, that's it!


WINDOZE RULES!

[LanEvo7]

Have you ever owned a Mac? The build quality of the hardware alone is incomparable to cheap PC boxes. You get loads of great Apple software for free (software that is Mac only, by the way). If you build a PC with the same quality components Apple uses, the PC won't be much cheaper at all, actually.

You can build a quality PC with comparable speed for MUCH LESS than any mac.

The answer is yes, pure and simple. Name us one thing you can do on a PC you can't do on the Mac. Really, come on, do it.
The only point I will give you is games, there are much more for Wintel folks. Solution: get a Mac and a Playstation2 if you're into gaming.

Play Unreal Tornament at the highest visual settings. Up until recently Macs were still running with geforce 2s and sdram. Right now, they finally had a clue and switched over to ddr and bundled their systems with Geforce 4MX. And thats on their high end systems. Everybody knows a G4MX is a p.o.s in todays selection of video cards.


I really do not see a point to get a mac. If you get a Mac, chances are you can get a better PC with the money you've spent. I've used both macs and pcs with windows xp, both are very stable. [/code]

[JackTrust]

Thank you to those that helped in asking what my questions actually were.
When I said should I stick with Final Cut Pro when it comes to Mac, what I meant was not when it actually comes out for Mac, I know it is already out. Sorry for the confusion, I meant shoudl I stick with it when it comes to video editing on the Mac.
Thank you to the future as well. Good points. I ordered my iMac yesterday. I didn't buy it for its looks, not completely anyways, or for gaming, that's what video consoles are for. I bought it for video editing. I asked questions about whether I could find the programs I was used to using out there, I didn't need this posting turned into a Mac vs. PC war. Afterall, we already have a winner for moron of the year when it comes to wars, we don't need to start ones over trivial things such as computers. Everyone has their opinion and it only proves your IQ level when you turn a simple question into a debate.

Thank you, Jack

[drewson99]

For example in the way that it NEVER EVER crashes, thus letting you do what you wanna do without any fuss whatsoever.

i run W2K on both my machines and have never had a crash while working with video. in fact, I have probrably had 2-3 crashes total and it was always with tucows stuff (i know, i should know better)

i do own an ipod...

[bbb]

I had typed a long message to help you not make the mistake that I did in purchasing and upgrading a Mac after being bombarded by the Apple hype. But my lengthy message disappeared when I tried posting it.

Seeing how you already jumped the gun, realize that when it no longer becomes economically sound to support/upgrade your Mac, don't keep doing so. Apple has a great tendency to quickly abandoned its hardware/software/components (e.g., 68040 users, DSP AV Mac users, Nubus cards, PDS cards, PPC generation 1 users, PPC generation 2 users, PPC accerlerator card users). Also, I seriously question Apple's leadership and vision as a corporation that relies on promoting itself as a cult and asks its members for donations to stay in business. Apple seems purely focused on gaudy computer shell casing designs and gaudy GUI designs than real technological innovation that it used to do in the past.

Also, note that you may still need a PC if you want to use Tmpgenc or CCE (the 2 best MPEG 2 encoders for consumers). Keep in mind that slugglish software emulation doesn't cut it for MPEG encoding. Also, many exciting authoring apps are only available on the PC. Vegas Video 4, arguably the best editting app, is only for Windows systems. Adobe has announced a dvd authoring app for the PC. And DVDlab will soon be released only on PCs. http://www.mediachance.com/dvdlab/index.html

I have a feeling that you will be spending a lot to keep your Mac running, hardwarewise and softwarewise. Good luck and don't get too caught up in the cult, it's not financially wise to do so.

-former Mac cult member


P.S.
The whole Macs are more stable than Windows is a myth or at least no longer true. With Windows 98/XP, my system is very stable and definitely more so than my PowerPC Mac.

[jefwest]

OKAY, ONCE AND FOR ALL....

Windows 2000/98/XP/LONGHORN/WHATEVERTHEHELL is nowhere near as

1) easy to use
2) Stable
3) Fun
4) Secure

Okay, I am allowed to say these things because I work for a multi-billion dollar technical support company (whose name I won't mention ....but it's founder has big ears). The shear amount of problems related to windows is ridiculous. In my own experience, My windows 2000 based computer reboots totally randomly roughly 3 times a day, forcing me to push another employee off his/her machine and finish out my call (since the machines take roughly 20 minutes to reboot). Now I'm not doing any "powerusing" or anything, I just have my case-logging tool and ie open and it reboots when I type "www.google.com".....WTF? I have 20 apps open at once on my 867 mac and I never encounter problems. Suer I've relaunched the finder now and again when I try to preview .m2v's and it cycles for a few seconds, but ALL MY APPS remain open and I don't lost my damn papers/case-logs, etc.........I've even gone and unchecked the "Automatically Reboot" on system failure checkbox and all that does is get me the "Starting Physical Memory Dump" blue screen. So you windoze folks say "well that's just your shotty build of windows" or this or that, whatever. All I know is there isn't a shotty build of os X.2 and no matter what version of X.2 you have, it's a great stable operating system. With win2000 you have to have service pack 2 version 1.232.145.1232 to be stable, and even then you're not stable bacause Microsoft's subsequent releases of security patches undo things that pervious onces fixed.....enter the SQL virus. The SQL slammer virus hit us hard, shutting down roughly 300,000 user's and all of our win2000 servers. Server admins were chastised by MSFT for not keeping current with the updates....until MSFT realized that even if server admins had been keeping current with the updates (which they don't cuz theres too many of em) then the latest released update would have overridden the previous fix to the SQL hole and made computers/networks AGAIN vulnerable. MSFT goes with the Release and patch the hell outta it method, which I dispise. Anyways, onto ease of use. Half the people who call in to me have no clue what a C/D/Q/X9er drive is, but I'm sure they could all tell you what the "Macintosh HD" is. Don't even get me started on office 2000, it's a piece of shit, ESPECIALLY when used off servers, because then it REINSTALLS every goddam time I want to use it. It's like.....ok...I want to type a document....NOT reinstall office SR1 bullshit. Ugh....the frustrations of windows.....and they still continue. I was typing a paper for my college classes at work and yes, it decided to randomly reboot.....outta the blue......at least if the finder freezes you can just relaunch it, but let me just say that the task manager is a pos compared to X's. Alright I'm off work now and Had enough tirading, I've vented enough and can now go home. Well ENJOY YOUR IMAC buddy! .0000001% down......95.99999999999999999999999% to go...............

[tgpo]

a corporation that relies on promoting itself as a cult and asks its members for donations to stay in business.

Whoa donations......When did that happen....

It's always funny how people can make up reasons to hate macs, but never look at all the flaws of what they are running

And I've never seen Apple promoting themselves as a cult...where do you people get this stuff?

[tgpo]

Anyway, the original poster has made up his mind, thus no further discussion is required here....plus I want to avoid a flame war...so we're done here.