non standard SVCD w/ VCDeasy

[frank_mazda]

My goal is a making 1600bit/s 480x480 SVCD.

There's no problem on the MPEG file I encode because if I watch it in Windows Mplayer I don't get any of the problems I got in my DVD player.

1st option (successful) encode as MPEG1 and burn it as non standard VCD.

2nd option (whaz wrong with this !?!??!) encode as MPEG2 and burn as non standard SVCD: the audio is delayed 1-2 seconds from the video (that means that if the video starts at second 00:00 the audio will start at 00:01 !?!?)

ANy fix on this ?

thanks

[corob4]

My goal is a making 1600bit/s 480x480 SVCD.

There's no problem on the MPEG file I encode because if I watch it in Windows Mplayer I don't get any of the problems I got in my DVD player.

1st option (successful) encode as MPEG1 and burn it as non standard VCD.

2nd option (whaz wrong with this !?!??!) encode as MPEG2 and burn as non standard SVCD: the audio is delayed 1-2 seconds from the video (that means that if the video starts at second 00:00 the audio will start at 00:01 !?!?)

ANy fix on this ?

thanks

.......................
i am kind of confused by your post first you say you want to get a svcd ,but then point 1 says encode as mpeg1?

if your useing vcdeasy
under main make sure video type says svcd 1.0
then you can make the bin/cue and just use the tools tab on the side > cdrdao > load bin/cue > burn
you dont need to burn as non-compliant if your useing 480x480 and 44.1 audio
?? what encoder did you use to get your orginal mpg2 file?
?? what burning software were you useing orginally?
?? what type of file do you want final movie to be in mpg2 or mpg1?

[frank_mazda]

answers:
--you dont need to burn as non-compliant if your useing 480x480 and
--44.1 audio
false: to be compliant it needs to be 2600 bit/s; I'm using 1600 bit/s...
--?? what encoder did you use to get your orginal mpg2 file?
WinDVR
--?? what burning software were you useing orginally?
VCDEasy
--?? what type of file do you want final movie to be in mpg2 or mpg1?
I'd like it to be in mpg2... (as I stated in my first post I already got it work as mpg1 and non standard VCD)

I hope now it's clear.
Thanks for your time: please let me know NOW what you think...

[adam]

SVCD does not require 2600kbits, it supports up to that high but you can go as low as you want. Assuming your other settings are compliant, it doesn't seem that there is anything non-compliant about your mpeg2 file..

Bad sync in an mpeg2 file is almost always caused by improper multiplexing and almost no encoders are able to properly create correctly multiplexed program streams. This means that if you feed the encoder both the video and audio streams together, the resulting mpg will almost always have problems. It is much better to encode the audio and video separately and then multiplex the audio stream (mp2) and video stream (m2v) together in the end. The only multiplexor whose SVCD compliance I totally trust is bbmpeg. Everything else seems to create non-compliant mpg's in my opinion.

So I suggest you use TMPGenc to demultiplex your mpg (file/mpeg tools/simple demultiplex) and then remultiplex in bbmpeg and try authoring again.

[frank_mazda]

OK SVCD does not require 2600kbits/s, but how come that if I chose that bitrate my file is synched without post multiplexing ?
while if I use 1600kbits/s the audio is 2 seconds delayed...

Also why if I played it with Mplayer audio and video start together (no delay...)

is not that the problem is in the incorrect autopadding ?

anyway thanks for your suggestion but I was looking for a REAL TIME suggestion (no file editing w/ TMPENG or BBMP)...

something I can encode live and burn right away...

Was anybody successful with this ?

[adam]

I don't know why your problem only presents itself in certain circumstances, but when you are producing non-compliant files, like I believe you are, then you can't exactly be suprised when things randomly don't work.

Encoding audio and video separately and then multiplexing in the end is actually FASTER than encoding together. In the future, you can use this method to prevent these problems. For now you will have to spend the extra 2 mins demultiplexing before you can multiplex correctly. Like I said, I have yet to find a program which compliantly encodes both audio and video simultaneously, insofar as the SVCD specifications are concerned. Considering how strict the standard is in regards to multiplexing this really isn't all that suprising.

If you want a method that works than you will either have to encode separately and multiplex in the end using a compliant multiplexor like bbmpeg, or you will have to continue experimenting and hope that things happen to work out.

The fact that your movie correctly plays in sync in media player, but not on your hardware player, pretty much confirms that it is multiplexed incorrectly.

[frank_mazda]

Hei Adam,
do you know of any software that encodes separately and in real time audio (mp2) and video (m2v)?
any name ?
I was using WINDVR and I don't think that allows separate encoding...

[adam]

The two encoders I use are CCE (cinema craft encoder) and TMPGenc, both of which allow separate audio and video encoding. CCE runs anywhere from ~$60 to $3000 depending on which package you get and TMPGenc is under $50.

[frank_mazda]

I thought that they were batch enocoders (you give them an AVI in input and they spit out an MPEG in output...)

are they also real time encoders (I plug in my camera and get an MPEG in real time).... ?

I don't want acquire as AVI, then encode as separate audio/video MPEG and then burn .....

[edsmith77]

frank,
Yes they are both batch type encoders.
No. Neither is a real time encoder, meaning they do not encode as you capture. You have to give them a file (usually an AVI) before they will work. There is one possibility, but I have NEVER tried this out. That would be to capture an AVI with Vdub and frameserve to tmpgenc at the same time. Something tells me this will not work or not work worth a hoot.
If you want real time capture to mpeg out then you need a capture card that will do that for you. I use the ATI Rage Fury Pro for that capability. Although the card itself does not do the actual encoding the MMC software that drives that card will allow just about any type of capture from AVI to MPEG-2. Yes, it will encode to either MPEG-1 or MPEG-2 at any desired resolution / bit rate (provided you have sufficient horsepower to make that happen). The resulting files are ready to burn to disk. If you stray to far from the standard you might have to remux the video and audio (about a 3 min process to correct the auto padding) before it can be burned. I capture almost exclusively in mpeg-1 and then burn to disk with vcdeasy. Sometimes I have to do some editing (usually splitting the file to fit on exact multiples of discs) with tmpgenc but once that is done. Voila.

Ed

[frank_mazda]

Ed,
did you try to take one of your ready to burn (non standard bit rate) MPEG2 and give them to vcdeasy ?
vcdeasy will try the AUTOPADDING but the audio will be delayed....
that sounds like a bug to me.... (the same file if encoded as MPEG1 won't be delayed)
I'm contacting vcdeasy creator and he should get back to me....


Frank

[Nosier]

frank,
I'm doing the same, after burning about 20 cd's to get it right (I paid $9 for 200 on sale at office max)... anyways... I found the same thing, I am trying to get 2+ hours on 1 cd, I finally got it, it's only vhs quality but that is fine for me.. anyways...

when I tried to record with windvr and burn to cd a mpeg2 I got the same problem, but when I did a mpeg1 it would come out fine..

the only extra step I take between recording and then burning is that I load into tmpgnc under mpeg tools and cut the extra at the start and the end (I schedule my recordings so I have extra stuff before and after)... then I make sure I select an uncompliant vcd and hit run, total process takes about 15 mintues to go from saved file, cut to size and save..

so far for what I am using this for, I haven't seen any advantage of using a mp2 over mp1, besides the 2 main factors, mp2 I can't seem to keep in sync and I haven't figured out how to get as much time on 1 cd..

[frank_mazda]

Hei Nosier,
nice to hear about your success from you...

I noticed one little problem and I'd like to hear if you get the same...

I'm encoding at 480x480 MPEG1 video 1600bit/s... About 60 minutes per 800mbCD
Great quality but if the scene is somehow complex and changes quickly from dark foreground to light foreground I get some a not precise encoding (pretty big blocks instead of pixels) for half a second...
then everythings gets perfect again

Does this happen to you too ?

thanks

Fade in/out is difficult for almost all encoders in low bitrates, only few can really get over that problem, so it isn't uncommon...

[Nosier]

sounds like what you are getting is the same thing I get on about 5% of the cd, it doesn't show up when I play the file back on the computer, only after I burn it and put in the standalone dvd player, I am assuming that it comes from either the lower resolution of the tv from my computer or something with the player, but again, for what I am doing with my setup it is fine with me for that..

one thing that appeared to reduce the % that it happens is when I initially record, I have the motion settings turned all the way up, I think it is max of 16.. it appeared to resolve that issue..

I also do other things on my computer when I am recording (at night) so I set the recorder to a higher priority.. I try to record things during the day when I am not home so I don't have to worry about it, but when I do access my computer while recording, I sometimes get paused scenes, I would assume primarly due to the cpu load..

[stsurbrook]

Frank,

Try using TMPGEnc as it has an option for soft block noise reduction that will tend to eliminate the "big blocks" you are seeing and replace them with "normal" pixels, but the picture will get "blurry". IMO, it is an excellent tradeoff.

Hope this helps.

Scott