What am I doing wrong with Studio 8?

[jaeshin]

OK... I've been using Studio 8 to edit my DV home videos for a while. I think I am quite familiar with its features such as editing, saving, etc..

Recently I started to play with DVD editing and here is what I did with my DV videos.

1) Capture it via Firewire in Studio 8 (Full quality DV format)
2) Edit it in Studio
3) Save it as AVI
4) Convert it into MPEG using CCE or Mainconcept Encoder (I don't want to wait 10 hours for Studio 8 to do encoding)
5) Import mpg file into Studio 8
6) Set chapter points, edit menus
7) Save it to DVD (Haven't been able to do this step yet)
8) Burn it with Nero

Here are some of my questions relating difficulties I've experienced.

1) When I tried to burn final video into DVD, it seems the program re-encodes the file. Is there a way to prevent it? Ulead DVD Workshop just skips this reencoding if I work with mpg files. (I encoded the file at calculated bit-rate for the length of the movie, usualy at 7000)

2) If I quit after step 6 then open the project later, my computer's free ram drops so much so that the program just hangs. I have to use CTRL+ALT+DELETE to quit it. Is this a bug or what? I know Studio 8 is a memory hog but it's ridiculous to be unable to open the project after working on it for so long.

3) CCE produces mpv and mpa files when using multi-pass VBR. Can Studio 8 import these files? I couldn't do it but wondering whether it's possible.


Well... there are other questions but I cannot remember all of them at this time.

I really like Studio 8's clean interface and especially TitleDeko feature. Other programs cannot match its convenience. So if I can get this program to work with DVD authoring, it will be great.

If you have any suggestions for converting DV->DVD, please let me know as well.

I am using the latest Studio version, 8.5.21 or something...

[Redd]

I also use Studio 8, but I have been rendering in Studio 8 as well and also burning via Studio 8. So far I haven't had any problems with it...well only one. I cancelled a rendering of an avi to mpeg less than a minute into the job because I wanted to do some last minute editing. Froze my computer up and I began getting some major errors happening in my OS (Win XP Professional). I did a system restore and all is fine now.
I just downloaded scLive to use for capturing due to Studio 8's problem with audio sync in capturing from analog VHS to D/V. Everything I've read says this capturing program works very well, and it's a stand-alone program. Now if I could find a way to compress my captured avi files and have a ten gig file instead of a forty gig file.
I am going to try the encoder you use in your post and see how it works for me.

[jarroyo]

Jaeshin,

That is EXACTLY the process that I follow from begining until the end. Even Nero is what I use. Can you post your encoding settings? Include your video and audio settings. I have used both of those encoders succesfully.

[jarroyo]

Oops. Forgot to answer the other two questions:

2) It does take some memory and time. On my 1.6Ghz, 512Meg RAM it takes as much as 10 minutes to load a 4GB MPEG. Pretty annoying.

3) Nope. You have to multiplex the streams.

[donpedro]

jaeshin, I wonder how is this going to end up. Please continue only in one post

[jaeshin]

Jaeshin,

That is EXACTLY the process that I follow from begining until the end. Even Nero is what I use. Can you post your encoding settings? Include your video and audio settings. I have used both of those encoders succesfully.

For the last project that I did, I used Mainconcept Encoder and I had a trouble with this setting;

Output Format:
MPEG Type - DVD, Video - NTSC, Stream - Program (Video+Audio), Audio - LPCM

In Detail Setting:
didn't change anyting - deinterlacing none, bottom filed first, etc.
48000Hz with Stereo

In Advanced Setting:
didn't change much except the bitrate after calculating it with "BitrateCalc"
for 1hour 16minutes 51second movie, bitrateCalc suggested 7571 for calcuated, 9122 for max
so I changed the max bitrate setting to 9120 and average for 7570 and left min as it was 2500

It took about an hour 30 minutes to encode but the problem was I found out the mpg file was over 5Gb. But the bigger problem was that none of the programs played the audio (Windows Media Player, Studio 8, DVD Workshop, etc.).

I restarted the encoding with "Layer 2" for the audio with 224 Kbps. I kept other settings as it was.

The result (this time, it took less time to encode) was a mpg file around 4.37Gb which I could import to Studio 8 and play with other programs.

* I was not able to use this file directly with DVD Complete. It said the video was not compatible with DVD format.

After I imported it (took a long time), I made chapters and stuff. Then tried to make a disk with the automatic setting but it seemed like the program was going nowhere. So as Redd said up there, I tried to stop it and the program just dead.

Then when I restarted the program and opened the project that I saved, it just sucked up the memory and froze. Maybe the file was corrupted or something.

Perhaps I should've waited longer to see how long it took the program to do whatever it had to do. I will try it again soon and let you know.

Jason

[jaeshin]

Oops. Forgot to answer the other two questions:

2) It does take some memory and time. On my 1.6Ghz, 512Meg RAM it takes as much as 10 minutes to load a 4GB MPEG. Pretty annoying.

3) Nope. You have to multiplex the streams.

Two things...

For 2), I have a trick (well... if you can call it a trick). Just hit "Cancel" when P8 is loading the mpeg file. You will have the file without divided scenes. P8 does not do a good job detecting scenes in mpg file anyway. With this one file, you can set up chapter points and such manually.

For 3), what program do you use to multiplex the streams? I've heard MPEGEnc does this.

Jason...

[jarroyo]

Jason,

Assuming that the video resolution is 720x480, what you have should work. LPCM might be a problem and I personally believe that you would be giving up too many bits for Audio at the expense of Video. That is a preference thing. I use MPEG layer 2 audio, 48000Hz, stereo, 224 kbits.

Make sure the quality is custom = 4000 and the Mpeg audio is checked. Nothing magical about 4000, it is just what I use and I know works. I do know that selecting automatic will reencode every time.

Give Pinnacle time to read your file. Basically, if the harddisk light is on, it is doing its thing. When it hangs, your harddisk will likely not be engaged. When it is reading my MPEG, the HD light is on solid. When I do a "make disk", the HD light is not light up solid but it lights up every 10 seconds or so.

[jarroyo]

I have the detect scenes option turned off. I think it just takes a while to load the file so it can put it on the timelines. I'm just guessing here. It often opens it quickly, but when I try to do anything to the file it will go to read the whole thing. It does not bother me too much since the other programs I tried do the same (S8 is a bit slower thought). Reading a 4GB is quite a bit of work.

Yes, I have an old copy of TMPGENC I used for a while which right now I only use for the multiplexing capabilities. It works great for that. It takes about 20 minutes to multiplex a 4GB stream.

[Bones]

I found the problem to be with editing mpg files, don't encode the file to mpg until you finish your project. For some reason, S8 craps out with large mpg files... I have found good success with doing all of my editing in avi and only converting to mpg when i am ready to burn...

[jarroyo]

Yes, if you do any trimming, adding transitions, titles, etc to the MPG file, it has to reencode the whole thing. That is expected. Once you have encoded the MPEG all you should do is create the menus and the chapters, so make sure that any editing is done to the AVI file.

[jaeshin]

I have the detect scenes option turned off. I think it just takes a while to load the file so it can put it on the timelines. I'm just guessing here. It often opens it quickly, but when I try to do anything to the file it will go to read the whole thing. It does not bother me too much since the other programs I tried do the same (S8 is a bit slower thought). Reading a 4GB is quite a bit of work.

I think you are absolutely right. I tried to work with the un-detected mpg file and the program just hangs for me. I guess I just have to let it read it through.

You mentioned that it took 10 minutes or so to load the file right? How come for me it takes about an hour? I have 2.4Ghz P4, 512Ram, 7200 speed harddrive, WinXP Pro...

Oh... I tried custom 4000 and it worked great! After compiling the menu, the program started to write DVD file. I guess I will go with this method from now on.

I just wish that the program itself is little bit more stable than now. Once the program stops responding, it does that over and over if I tried to open the same project.

Thanks. I will keep testing and let you know.

Jason

[jarroyo]

Jaeshin,

On a 2.4GH, 512MB RAM it should never, ever take more that 10-15 minutes to read a 4 GB file. It might be that either your .stu file or the .scn file is messed up/corrupted. The stu file is the project and the scn file is the scenes. I have a 1.6GHZ, 512 RAM machine and it has never gone over 15 minutes or so to load.

Usually when I go to the import of the MPG and the creation of the menus/burning, I create a separate project. I have better luck that way. I found that once I understood S8 limitations, it has not hung at me at all. In fact, I believe it has been over a month since I have had an error or a system hang. I dont believe that is typical

[SnoopyDad]

In reply to the most recent post, I have a P4 2Ghz, and it takes about 5 minutes to load a 4 gb file.

I have had similar problems as described in the original post and have gotten around some of them but others then arise.

My capture process is almost identical with the exc. of using TMPGEnc to encode the avi file (~27 GB in size), takes about 4.5 hours. It imports into PS8 in about 5 minutes also.

My question/problem is the chapter points and menu edit. I put in a menu w/ chptrs but when I go to 'burn to disc', it re-encodes the entire file, the PS8 bitrate is set at custom 4000 and the TMPGC encoding was done at about 4300 bitrate, taking about 6 hours to complete. In reading other posts, I understand that only the menu/chpt pts should re-encode but obviously thats not whats happening.

From this point, I have tried many times using NERO +Burning rom to burn the DVD but with no luck, my standalone DVD will read and then stop, thats it. It will play on the computer with WinDVD, but has another problem, i.e. - the menus do not work. It wont advance a chapter ata time, it starts at the beginning of the DVD, and I can fast-forward. I have managed to burn a except that the menu/chapters do not work , using Nero express as a DVD-video, same files copied into the VIDEO-TS dir as with NERO. So what am I doing wrong with the menus and NERO Burning Rom?


Thanks

[jarroyo]

Snoopy,

Can you post your TMPGEnc settings? That might help. If you are using Mpeg layer 2 sound, Stereo, 48Khz sound and your mpg is a DVD compliant MPEG-2 Stream, you should be OK and S8 *should* not re-encode.

I am assuming that you tried out the menu inside of S8. Before going to Nero I rename the Video_ts directory to VIDEO_TS and add an empty AUDIO_TS directory. In Nero burning ROM (I dont use express), all I do is choose DVD UDF, make sure mode is 1.02. and move the VIDEO_TS and AUDIO_TS directories to the burning pane. I think I delete the two extraneous files from the VIDEO_TS and then burn. That is it.

[SnoopyDad]

Thanks for the quick reply.

I will post the specifics for TMPG later this evening.

In regards to the menus, I am using PS8 to generate the menus and chapters and there was one attempt that partially worked. It would allow me to advance to a chapter, but after the chapter for a bit, I couldnt advacne chapters. The other issue with this attempt was that the main menu, in which three chapters per page were set, some pages only had two shown but continued sequentially on the following page. Any ideas??

NERO - I rename the video-is dir in all caps plus incl an audio_ts (all caps), burn as a UDF DVD-ROM, UDF 1.02, move files into the burn window, remove the two useless files and burn. On the standalone, basically nothing happens. As I mentioned in the earlier post, I tried Nero express as DVD-video, and just to be sure, compared files, and they both contain the same info, but the DVD-video works and the UDF-DVD doesnt. Basically, I'm very confused as to why one works and one doesn't.

[jarroyo]

Are you running S8 8.5.21?

[SnoopyDad]

If that is the most recent update. Yes.

[jaeshin]

Jaeshin,

On a 2.4GH, 512MB RAM it should never, ever take more that 10-15 minutes to read a 4 GB file. It might be that either your .stu file or the .scn file is messed up/corrupted. The stu file is the project and the scn file is the scenes. I have a 1.6GHZ, 512 RAM machine and it has never gone over 15 minutes or so to load.(

Jarroyo!

Maybe we are talking about different things here. I am talking about when I try to import mpg file into the library. S8 detects scenes within the file and this takes about an hour. I think S8 makes .scn file during this process, right? If that's the case, .scn cannot be corrupted. Also since I just try to import the mpg file, I do not save the project in .stu file.

I have no problem with importing AVI files into S8. It's only mpgs that give me troubles.

Thank you!

[jarroyo]

Jason,

Oh. That just sounds like too long.

I have stopped letting S8 detect scenes a long time ago mostly because, for the MPEG files, I am doing chapter points rather than editing. For chapter points, I like to place the chapter points myself.

I am not sure how long it would take, but I don't recall it been that long. It might be possible it would have been that long. When I was laying out my process, I was using pretty short, 15 minute, videos and burning them to DVD-RW.

Snoopy,

I am at a loss on why your menus don't work specially if it works inside S8 before burning. I really dont believe the menu problem is related to Nero. I think it is something with S8. Sorry I cannot help.

[SnoopyDad]

jarroyo

The TMPG settings were/are as follows:

DVD NTSC,
MPEG-2
740-480
29.97 fps
CBR 4359 bps
Layer 2, 48000 Hz, 384 kbps

Question regarding PS8 menus - Could it be the method in which chapters are ste? I manully set them in the video time line instead of letting Studio set them automatically. I did the automatic set once, and it put a chapter at every scene (each 30 sec, based on my scene detection criteria). Is there another way of manually setting the chapter points?

Thanks

[jarroyo]

Snoopy,

Well, 740x480 is not a standard DVD resolution, but maybe it was a typo on your post. If it was not a typo, then you need to change it to 720x480 or it will have to be re-rendered.

A comment aside, if you are doing 4359 for a DVD, you are somewhat starving for bit in your video and you might want to consider going with a 2-pass VBR at an average of 4359 (Max 8000, Average 4359, Min 2000). What that does is give the encoder the freedom to use bits at different rates during your video as long as it ends up at a 4359 average for the whole video. For example, you have a video that starts with no motion, so the encoder can drop down to about 3000 bps while encoding those frames. Then some real action begins and the encoder can use the bits it did not use before, so it can encode those frames at about 5700 bps. That will make your high motion scenes not have artifacts and look quite a bit better. It makes TMPGEnc do two passes (Looong time to wait), but it might be worth it for you. Also, you might want to lower your audio to 224 since bits you use for audio are bits you cannot use for video. Just some thoughts...

Just for reference here is an excerpt from another post I made a while back:

Here are my usual settings that Studio does not re-encode:

2 pass VBR Max 8000, Min 2500, Average xxxx (usually 4700, but I have used as high as 6500)
Interlaced (should not matter)
DC 10 (should not matter)
NTSC
Motion (Very Slow - should not matter)
Rate 29.97
Aspect Ratio 4:3 525 line (NTSC)
Field order - Bottom first (DV)
Size 720x480

I Picture 1
P Picture 4
B Picture 2
Max GOP is 15 (that is the DVD standard for NTSC, 18 for PAL I believe)
The structure should look like IBBPBBPBBPBBPBB


Audio 48000Hz, Stereo
Bits 224(I have used 192 and 224 dont think it really matters)
Enable error Protection or CRC

Wait a long while...

Here is the reference I used to come up with these settings http://dvd-hq.info/Compression.html

[jarroyo]

Regarding menus, yes there is another way. You can drop the menu and say no to automatic menu creation. Then you can select the menu on your timeline. It will come up on the screen above (where the album usually is). You can do a drag of a scene you want on the menu and drop it in the menu spot where you want it.

I have never set them in the time line, but it should not matter.

[jaeshin]

Here is the reference I used to come up with these settings http://dvd-hq.info/Compression.html

Wow... thank you for the thorough and helpful link for TMPGEnc. I just hope I can find a similar page for Mainconcept and CCE. Though... much of the stuff can be applied to these programs as well.

I still haven't figured out why it takes so long to load mpg files in my computer. I will try more and let you know. Thanks.

Oh... one more thing. Does anyone know how to change PIO, DMA setting for hard drives in WinXP Pro? This setting used to be easily accessible in WinMe and 98 but since XP, I am not sure where it is. I think I saw it somewhere but if you can remind me, it will be apprecaited.

Thanks.

[donpedro]

- right click on "My Computer"
- "Hardware" tab
- "Device Manager" button
- "IDE ATA/ATAPI controllers" click on the "+" sign
- Right click on "Primary" or "Secondary IDE Channel"
- select "Properties"
- in "Advanced Settins" you can change Transfer Mode...

[SnoopyDad]

Jarroyo,

You are right, it was a typo, should be 720x480

Thanks for the detailed encoding settings. I will give it a try and also look at the reference you provided. I will also try the menu and chapter points again. Maybe this time it will work like it is supposed to.

I will post again after the next attempt.