Archiving Captured DV

[Cirrus]

My second 120GB HDD is almost full of captured DV AVIs. I tried using disk compression in Win2K, but it did not give me any real extra space. I was concidering getting another HDD (my third) but wondred what other options people use for archiving. Are Tape drives OK? I've seen a 20GB one for about £120.

[daamon]

Hi Cirrus,

You've got several options:

1. Keep them as DV AVI and get more storage space. It means you keep the quality that's in the AVI, but suffer the huge filesizes (approx. 13Gb per hour's footage). AVI's are easier to edit and highly unlikely to have problems post-edit.

2. You could compress them to MPEG2 - lower bitrates mean smaller files, but less quality (see SVCD), whereas higher bitrates are better quality (see DVD).

3. You compress them to MPEG1 - even lower bitrates than MPEG2, with still lower quality.

Note: MPEG's (1 or 2) are tricky to edit. This format is designed to contain the finished article once any playing around has been done.

4. Compress using a codec such as Divx or Xvid - I believe that you can retain reasonable quality for around 10% of the original file size.

It's important to note that once you've compressed your DV AVI (however you do it, except zipping), you won't be able to uncompress back to the original quality. Compression in video is "lossy" - i.e. you lose information that can't be regained.

There may be other options that I'm not aware of...

[racer-x]

This is what I do. After I finnish editing my video, I output the Timeline to both Mpeg and DV-AVI. The Mpeg goes to DVD and the DV-AVI gets recorded back to tape for archive. You can also burn the DV-AVI to a DVDR, but will only get about 20 min worth.

[Cirrus]

Daamon,

I don't want to convert them if at all possible. I may need to use them again later for editing so would prefer to keep them as DV AVI.

I was more looking for comments on archiving solutions for the files as they are. I know that if I get another larger HDD ~200GB, I'll only go and fill that too I was just thinking about long term storage options.

[daamon]

Hi Cirrus,

As racer-x says:

...and the DV-AVI gets recorded back to tape for archive.

If you want to keep the originals, all I can think of is HDD's or DV tapes.

I've not needed to archive as all my DV AVI footage is holidays etc. and these end up on DVD so I can dump the AVI's.

Anyone else have any ideas?

[awlchu]

Why not just leave your videos on DV tape? All my long term videos are left on tape. I do not keep many spinning since I'm afraid of loosing them to a HD crash etc. .

Several editing packages will write out DV AVI format back to your camcorder...

...oops, if you're in NTSC land that is

[daamon]

if you're in NTSC land that is

@ Cirrus - If you're in PAL-land (sorry, I don't speak latin...) then check out http://www.smartdv.co.uk/ - Found on a Google search of "enabling dv in" (what you'll need to do to "unlock" recording from PC back to cam).

As the site where I got my PAL miniDV cam done (http://www.lynxdv.com) don't seem to supply the software / hardware to enable DV in.

[Cirrus]

Thanks for the comments.

I don't want to have the original tapes as the only copy of the video. I prefer to have a backup incase the worst happens. It's all ireplacable stuff (my first child growing up) so I wanted to keep the tapes as they are and have another copy on my PC or other device.

I had a quick look at some websites and found that I can get a 200GB drive for the same price as my 120GB I bought a couple of years ago. Hopefully at the rate I only need to by a new drive every few years for the same price, which will keep increasing in capacity

I think this is they way I will go. Not sure how else to do it. Just need to find a caddy to go in my spare CD-writer tray so I can fit another HDD in...


PS. Yes, I've looked at enabling the DV In on my camcorder (I am in PAL land). I may use this for some edditing work but does not really help with what I need. Thanks anyway...

[daamon]

Sounds like your best option (from what little I know of archiving).

Good luck. Sounds like a worthy reason to splash out a few quid / euros...

P.S. What's the translation of "RATAE CORITANORVM"? Do you live near Leicester, UK per chance?

[Cirrus]

P.S. What's the translation of "RATAE CORITANORVM"? Do you live near Leicester, UK per chance?

I live near by, yes I'm a big fan of Roman History. Ratae is the old Roman name for Leicester, the Coritani we the local tribe...

In AD 43, the Roman Emperor Claudius invaded ‘Britannia’. Between AD 70 and 80, Coritani became a ‘civitas’ meaning that the tribe was allowed to govern itself. The administrative centre for this local government area was in Leicester, then known as 'Ratae Coritanorium'.

PS, like the logo on your username. Watched the match on the edge of my seat. Got some ear ache about it too as we were supposed to be going shopping that morning. "it will be over in a few mins" I said in normal time. Then they went and equalised . Just glad it didn't go into golden goal...

[daamon]

Proof that not all video enthusiasts are techies who don't see the light of day...

Watched the match on the edge of my seat.

Me too. Then I went straight home (out on the beers the night before with mates, in preparation) and watched the whole thing again - and was still on the edge of my seat!!! Even though I knew what was going to happen!

You must be especially chuffed as half the team are from that small local Leicester rugby team...

The full match DVD is out some time in March...

[Cirrus]

Decided to do the following....

C: (30GB) Primary Master = Program files & temp files
D: (120GB) Primary Slave = Encoded MPG2 & Compiled DVD projects + assests
E: (DVD writer) Secondary Master
F: (~200GB) Secondary Slave = Captured DV AVI only (replaces CD writer)


At the rate I've been going the new drive should last a couple of years at least before it reaches capacity and the free space now on D: will give me plenty of room for the rest of my projects.

Now, just need to convince the wife that I need *another* HDD....

[daamon]

Now, just need to convince the wife that I need *another* HDD....

Good luck... And in general too

[nsdn]

Just thinking, You can make as close as a exact duplicate tape using DV, why don't u just copy the tapes (ie copy it to your hard drive then copy it back to another tape?) There is virtually no quality loss...

You could then store the second tapes in another location...if your house gets burnt down your gonna loose both your tapes and your hard drives....and hard drives are known to pack it in in any case...

Comeon tell the truth....ur just justifying to the mrs why u need a new hard drive :P

[jg0001]

I have a similar problem. As of now, I have SIX harddrives. Perhaps the best idea (see below) is to use an external enclosure (that you could just leave open) and swap in and out additional harddrives for archival purposes (i.e. keeps you from having 10 drives you don't always need permanently attached and running (and dying)).

I have a 120GB as the primary on the motherboard connected IDE channel, then 100, 160, 200, 250GB on a Promise Ultra ATA card that came with the 200GB drive (Western Digital), and finally a 250GB drive that I put in an external enclosure myself, connected via USB 2.0. (I also have a CD-RW, DVD-ROM, and an external FireWire DVD-RW).

Anway, the point of the above is you CAN have a half-dozen harddrives without too many problems (that ATA card is a necessity, allows 2 more channels for 4 drives). I use the 250GB external as a backup for my most sensitive items. The cool thing about the external is that it is an enclosure I bought for a regular internal drive... hence, I can swap out that 250 and put in another one whenever I want with minimum fuss. Much nicer than opening your machine up all the time. Also, that external has its own power switch so I don't need it running all the time and getting hot.

You've got to consider the price and speed of the storage:
DV-AVI tapes (in the US) can be had for $4 or less... can transfer 13GB in an hour, are portable but not readily useable or searchable on your PC
Harddrives... (in the US) prices have dropped to the point where you can ALWAYS find a drive for about $0.50 per GB. I picked up a 120GB drive for a mere $60 at BestBuy recently (WD with 8MB cache). Transfer speeds vary, but I find I can move about 1GB per minute from one drive to another or about 0.5GB from an internal to my external drive.
DVD Discs... unless your videos are short, you'll have to span several discs to contain a whole AVI.. current prices (on sale ALL the time) are roughly $1 per blank DVD+ or -R.

[MrMungus]

Thanks for the comments.

I don't want to have the original tapes as the only copy of the video. I prefer to have a backup incase the worst happens. It's all ireplacable stuff (my first child growing up) so I wanted to keep the tapes as they are and have another copy on my PC or other device.

I had a quick look at some websites and found that I can get a 200GB drive for the same price as my 120GB I bought a couple of years ago. Hopefully at the rate I only need to by a new drive every few years for the same price, which will keep increasing in capacity

I think this is they way I will go. Not sure how else to do it. Just need to find a caddy to go in my spare CD-writer tray so I can fit another HDD in...


PS. Yes, I've looked at enabling the DV In on my camcorder (I am in PAL land). I may use this for some edditing work but does not really help with what I need. Thanks anyway...

I don't understand why you can't just capture the tapes again when you want to do something with them, but, I'd look into external Firewire or external USB drives (preferrably Firewire). You can also get external enclosures for existing drives.

[Cirrus]

I don't understand why you can't just capture the tapes again when you want to do something with them

I don't want to rely on them being the only copy of my DV. I'm sure they will last for ages, but it only takes one mistake to lose one or damage it (I almost stepped on one once ). I'd much rather have a backup, just in case.

Recording to another set of tapes could work, but will have to look at the price (and hassel) comparison. I like the idea of storing somewhere else though, so I'll look into the external enclosures thing. Sounds like it would be ideal.

[jg0001]

A few more comments. The external enclosure that I have can take just about any current internal IDE harddrive without a hitch. While the enlosure itself cost me about $125, since I can swap in and out as many 'internal' drives as I want, it ends up being FAR cheaper than buying 'external' harddrives (externals tend to cost about $1 per GB or more while internals can always be had for $0.50 per GB on sale, and there's always a sale).

You WILL want either a USB 2.0 or FireWire capable device, obviously, but this also implies that you have a USB 2.0 or FW INPUT on your PC. It's a worthwhile investment as USB 1.1 is painfully slow by comparison.

I bought mine from www.firewire-1394.com. They screwed up my initial shipment by sending me a cable I didn't order in place of one I did, but a simple email to them and they quickly sent me the proper cord (FedEx!) and never asked for the other one back.

My enclosure is this one... (currently $115).
http://www.firewire-1394.com/tt-firewire-800-usb-2-drive-kit.htm
(it does USB 1.1/2.0, FireWire 400/800, but most PCs can't handle FW800... I use USB 2.0 as my FW port is tied up with other stuff.)