My 4K footage has shocks?

[MelleBax]

Hi everyone,

I'm new to this forum and quite new to the video world.
On my recent trip abroad I shot some footage with a drone in 4K and with my mirrorless camera in 4K and 1080p.

However, if you look really close, you can see some very small shocks in almost every clip. I don't know where they come from, whether I did something wrong while filming or editing.

Here is an example of one of my videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRWAhEJtczg

Especially the drone shot at 0:22 has a minor shock at almost every second.

Does someone have any idea what could be the problem?

Many thanks in advance!

Best,

Melle

[johnmeyer]

I see no problems whatsoever with the footage.

However, when I cranked the YouTube resolution up to the maximum, YouTube could not deliver a smooth stream.

You don't describe the problem very clearly, but if "shocks" refers to stuttering, where the frame momentarily freezes (which is what I am seeing, but only when I set the YouTube resolution to 4K), then that is an issue either with YouTube, with your ISP, or with the equipment (browser, computer, smartphone) used to play the highres footage.

My advice: don't ask YouTube to deliver 4K. I assume you understand that you cannot possibly see the difference between 1080p and 4K unless you have a monstrously large display (much larger than a typical 60" LCD display). 4K is a great acquisition format (i.e., a great format to use when shooting video) but it is complete overkill for most home theater systems, and is absolutely silly to use when watching video on a computer display or smartphone.

[jagabo]

The drone shot starting at 22 seconds has a duplicate frame every second. Some other shots have that too. That causes a slight jerk at playback. Did you mix 24 and 25 fps sources?

[johnmeyer]

jagabo, as usual, has it right. I initially did not bother to download the footage from YouTube before I posted above. However, when I did download the clip after reading jagabo's post, and then walked through it frame-by-frame, sure enough there is a duplicate every 24th frame. This pattern repeats reliably during the initial drone sequence.

The clip is PAL 25 fps, so if you did use 24 fps drone footage within a 25 fps project, then you'll get exactly what he describes. Unless you want to do some fancy frame rate conversions, you're stuck with this for now. In the future, try to get all cameras using the exact same frame rate and interlacing (i.e., set them all to 24 fps or 25 fps, and set them all to interlaced or set them all to progressive).

[jagabo]

Speeding up the 24 fps sources to 25 fps won't hurt this type of video. That will keep them perfectly smooth.

The duplicate pattern isn't exact, sometimes it's 1,2,3...22,23,23, sometimes it's 1,2,3...23,24,24. Not sure how that happened.

[johnmeyer]

Speeding up the 24 fps sources to 25 fps won't hurt this type of video. That will keep them perfectly smooth.

The duplicate pattern isn't exact, sometimes it's 1,2,3...22,23,23, sometimes it's 1,2,3...23,24,24. Not sure how that happened.

You are doubtless correct. I was lazy and after it repeated three times in a row, I didn't look any further.

As for speeding up, that is the ideal way to do it, especially if there is a way to simply edit the video header. You can easily do this with AVI files, but I don't have the software to do it for other video containers.

[MelleBax]

jagabo, as usual, has it right. I initially did not bother to download the footage from YouTube before I posted above. However, when I did download the clip after reading jagabo's post, and then walked through it frame-by-frame, sure enough there is a duplicate every 24th frame. This pattern repeats reliably during the initial drone sequence.

The clip is PAL 25 fps, so if you did use 24 fps drone footage within a 25 fps project, then you'll get exactly what he describes. Unless you want to do some fancy frame rate conversions, you're stuck with this for now. In the future, try to get all cameras using the exact same frame rate and interlacing (i.e., set them all to 24 fps or 25 fps, and set them all to interlaced or set them all to progressive).

Hi johnmeyer and jagabo,

First of all, thank you so much for your fast replies and your help.

I must admit, I am quite a newbie in this, but eager to learn and improve. I see now that I mixed 25 fps timelapse footage with 23,98 fps drone footage. So I would better set my camera (for timelapse footage) also to 23,98, right?

What exactly do you mean by interlaced/progressive? (Sorry, I'm not familiar with all terms yet)

Thanks again, cheers!

[MelleBax]

One other issue I had with my video quality, is the following:

In the attached video you find a timelapse. However, sometimes there are areas with pixels in the clip, especially in the blue air above the mountain.
How is this possible? Another editing mistake perhaps?

Many thanks in advance!

[jagabo]

So I would better set my camera (for timelapse footage) also to 23,98, right?

Yes. And set your output to the same rate.

One other issue I had with my video quality, is the following:

In the attached video you find a timelapse. However, sometimes there are areas with pixels in the clip, especially in the blue air above the mountain.
How is this possible? Another editing mistake perhaps?

Many thanks in advance!

Too little bitrate for the material.

[MelleBax]

Too little bitrate for the material.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the quick reply again Jagabo!

So how can I solve this problem? Where exactly lies the issue? My editing? The output? The video player?

[jagabo]

Too little bitrate for the material.

Thanks for the quick reply again Jagabo!

So how can I solve this problem? Where exactly lies the issue? My editing? The output? The video player?

Set the bitrate in the h.264 encoder settings.

[MelleBax]

I'm sorry, I don't know how.

The original footage is MP4, but I need it to be cut (and edited) and in MOV file.
So when I export it in Adobe Premiere Pro, I select Format: Quicktime, Video Codec: MPEG-4-video.
But when I select the H.264 there, the resolution of the output changes from 3840:2160 to 2000:2000.

I really need that 4k footage to remain 4k, but just in MOV format.

Many thanks!

[poisondeathray]

Quicktime h264 is limited in PP to 2000x2000

Why does it need to be MOV wrapped ?

A workaround is to use the free / open source plugin voukoder, which uses libx264 (higher quality anyways compared to QT h264) . You have the option to use MOV and it's not limited in resolution
https://github.com/Vouk/voukoder

[MelleBax]

I need to upload my footage to a website that only accepts MOV files.

I installed the Voukoder plugin. But when I want to export it and select Voukoder, it still saves as MP4. I don't see the MOV option anywhere..

[poisondeathray]

I need to upload my footage to a website that only accepts MOV files.

I installed the Voukoder plugin. But when I want to export it and select Voukoder, it still saves as MP4. I don't see the MOV option anywhere..

in the export settings, multiplexer tab, select mov from the dropdown menu


[Attachment 44855 - Click to enlarge]


Also, you'll probably want to set a lower CRF value. I think default is "23" . Lower values yield higher quality, larger file sizes. Maybe around 16-20 for general use is a good starting point

[poisondeathray]

Speeding up the 24 fps sources to 25 fps won't hurt this type of video. That will keep them perfectly smooth.

Yes, I would do what jagabo suggested if you have mixed framerate footage. You can interpret the footage in PP. First decide on what "base"' frame rate your sequence settings are. Or maybe the clips with the most footage might help you decide . ie. 23.976 to 25 , or 25 to 23.976 .

To interpret footage, select the clip(s) in the clip bin (you can shift select or marquee select) , then right click => modify => interpret footage => assume this frame rate (enter the value). You should always do this at the start of the project, because the timing might be off if you to it later (after editing) .



But in the future, you should plan these things ahead of time and shoot with the proper settings

[MelleBax]

I need to upload my footage to a website that only accepts MOV files.

I installed the Voukoder plugin. But when I want to export it and select Voukoder, it still saves as MP4. I don't see the MOV option anywhere..

in the export settings, multiplexer tab, select mov from the dropdown menu


[Attachment 44855 - Click to enlarge]


Also, you'll probably want to set a lower CRF value. I think default is "23" . Lower values yield higher quality, larger file sizes. Maybe around 16-20 for general use is a good starting point

Thanks for the explanation. I managed to get the 4k file in MOV. However, the bitrate is still very low. As a comparison:
Bitrate original file: 55016 kbps
Bitrate new file: 6001 kbps

This difference is really noticable at some points
How can I keep the higher bitrate?

[jagabo]

The lower you set the CRF value the higher the bitrate will be (unless there's some other constraint in the settings).

[poisondeathray]

In the export settings, video tab, go to the constant rate factor slider . Lower values yield larger files, higher quality. For general use 16-20 might be a good starting point. If you want higher quality , maybe try 10-15


[Attachment 44858 - Click to enlarge]

[MelleBax]

Many thanks to you all for the help! I really appreciate it

I did manage to get a higher bitrate (even higher than the original footage) with about 18 CRF. Great!



However, I have another issue:

Many of my other shots are quite shocky. I attached one example (.MOV file). Pay attention especially to the stripes on the mountain, is it me or do they 'move' quite shocky?

[poisondeathray]

However, I have another issue:

Many of my other shots are quite shocky. I attached one example (.MOV file). Pay attention especially to the stripes on the mountain, is it me or do they 'move' quite shocky?

This actually looks "normal" for what it is

Because 23.976 is a "film" rate, and will appear to have judder on most displays (not perfectly smooth). It's not an even integer mutliple of 60hz or 50hz .

People minimize that effect by shooting accordingly as if they were shooting a real film. ie. Very very slowly, shallow depth of field, appropriate shutter speed (thus motion blur). Harder to do with drones, but the speed is the biggest issue here which you will have some control over

Shooting at higher frame rates can reduce the perception of these problems as well

[jagabo]

Yes, watch a similar sharp, bright, high contrast, panning shot in any movie and you'll see the same thing. There's an example in this post.

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/305001-Current-HD-standard-is-a-FAIL/page2?highlig...ey#post1872228

60 fps looks much smoother:

[poisondeathray]

Yes the 60fps is smoother , especially if you're on a 60Hz display

Jagabo interpolated or synthesized "new" frames there using motion interpolation, probably using avisynth . It's free . There are commercial plugin methods such as twixtor, kronos etc...

It looks ok in this case - but there can be errors, side effects, edge morphing artifacts - sometimes drastic problems . There are some minor ones in the peripheral edges in that example. It's almost always better if you can shoot that way in the first place



What is the background info ? you mentioned a website using mov . If it was for stock footage , for example, it would be inappropriate to do that in post. But if it was just sharing with friends/family it would be ok

[MelleBax]

Yes the 60fps is smoother , especially if you're on a 60Hz display

Jagabo interpolated or synthesized "new" frames there using motion interpolation, probably using avisynth . It's free . There are commercial plugin methods such as twixtor, kronos etc...

It looks ok in this case - but there can be errors, side effects, edge morphing artifacts - sometimes drastic problems . There are some minor ones in the peripheral edges in that example. It's almost always better if you can shoot that way in the first place



What is the background info ? you mentioned a website using mov . If it was for stock footage , for example, it would be inappropriate to do that in post. But if it was just sharing with friends/family it would be ok

Well, I am trying to turn my hobby (filming & traveling) into an income stream, so we can keep traveling. So I am looking into making my footage available for purchase online (videoblocks, pond5, etc.).

All my drone shots are 24fps and I read that this is prefered by the film industry, TV productions, commercials, etc.
I just want my footage to be of sufficient quality to be sold/licensed. What is your opinion?

[poisondeathray]

As mentioned earlier, "24p" is shot with special techniques. It's more difficult with drones. But I've seen a lot worse being sold as stock footage.

But I would try to fly slower if using 24p, that will help reduce some of the issues. At least that is one thing you have some control over

Submit your footage sooner rather than later - because that market is getting highly saturated . Everyone and their dog has a drone now, the cost of entry is becoming lower every day.

[Selur]

60 fps looks much smoother

interpolating to 120fps and it seems smooth, just had to try out of curiosity
(used SVP in Vapoursynth)