Suddenly my DVDshrinks aren't reading on players

[john mcmillan]

I've used DVDshrink on various computers for several years w/o problems. Today I migrated to yet another computer as my olde beastie is dieing, and DVDshrink'd two different DVD-R's but...

-- Neither shrunk DVD plays on either of two DVD players (a Toshiba HD-DVD & a Samsung Blu-Ray) -- each player says the discs aren't valid DVDs! Yet each player -does- play previous DVD's I've shrunk!
-- Each DVD -does- play using Nero Showtime on my computer, and each looks sane (to my modest knowledge) when I compare their directories (with Windows Explorer) to the source DVD's (allowing for 57% shrink from DL to SL)
-- I did make a direct disc-copy of one of the failed DVD's using another DVD-writer and different DVD-R media to evade writer and media issues.


... This has me stumped. Any suggestions?

Is there a program which meaningfully displays the meta-info/structure of DVDs so I could compare the technical details of my old and new DVD's, and thereby find some setting that's incorrect for the players?

Better yet, is there a program which enumerates the logical defects of the DVDs?


Help!!! Thanks for any suggestions.

[zoobie]

a major problem here is the brand of media used

[budz]

Why are you using dvdshrink to shrink a DVD-R? Use DVD DECRYPTER to rip in ISO mode or DVDFAB DECRYPTER to rip the files then use IMGBURN to burn to disc.

[RabidDog]

Defective burner, defective media and/or RE-install dvdshrink making sure to check all settings. Copying a FAILED disc is a very bad idea. Try re-installing your old burner (known good) into new PC . 4.7gb SL?
Update your computer details.. burner? firmware?

*why dvdshrink? perhaps 57% shrinkage is a clue? non?

[john mcmillan]

a major problem here is the brand of media used

Which is why I tried two brands of media -- one of which hasn't had any reading problems on any drive I've used before. It should be noted the Samsung 1500 Blu-Ray -just- arrived and hasn't played -anything- but these discs, and the Toshiba HD-DVD A20 (?) (sigh) isn't the player I've normally played DVD-R's on, but the BR physically replaced the oldest, non-HD drive and today I'll cable that old one in to see if it adds to the picture.

Why are you using dvdshrink to shrink a DVD-R?

Because I started that way and it's worked for years. It made it easy to strip out unwanted portions. I have used DVDdecryptor when facing disks with read-issues, but it never seemed as easy as DVDshrink.

Defective burner, defective media and/or RE-install dvdshrink making sure to check all settings. Copying a FAILED disc is a very bad idea. Try re-installing your old burner (known good) into new PC . 4.7gb SL?
Update your computer details.. burner? firmware?

-- I'll re-install DVDshrink, BUT I did check every option (AFAIK) and didn't notice anything odd. It certainly -did- "successfully" create two DVD-R's which played on the computer w/o problem.
-- If I'd only had ONE failed DVD I wouldn't have copied it, but with TWO failed ones I was just testing the different media (and switching burner used to write), having convinced myself it wasn't a bad one-off write.


System:
E2180 @ 2,8 MHz on Asus P5E-VM DO w/ 2GB RAM
2x BenQ 1650's (sATA), Samsung 540GB HD -- Firmware BCDC & BCIC... guess I should update BCDC! (*)
-- first two failed DVD's were written by BCIC, copied DVD was written by BCDC
Vista Home Basic (up-to-date with patches), DVDshrink 3.2.0.15, Nero 9

Old System (from which DVD's played), R.I.P.:
Something like Athlon 2400, 1.5GB RAM
DVD burner? (I just tore down and rebuilt three computers so parts have migrated.)
XP (up-to-date), DVDshrink (probably 3.2.0.15), Nero (5,6,7?)



I'll first use my other up-and-running computer to see if the problem occurs with its DVD's. While it's burning, I'll re-install the olde DVD player and try it. Then I'll re-install DVDshrink on the problem-computer and burn again on it.


I used Nero InfoTool (for the first time) to extract the F/W Id's. I found it told me some meta-info on the discs -- info I -presume has no significance, but I'll note the differences:

SD=Src disc, DD=Destination (Shrunk) disc

Layers: SD=2 , DD=1 (obv., as I was shrinking to single layer disc)
Version: SD=1 , DD=5 (I haven't found any description of what this implies)
TrackPath: SD=PTP , DD=Single (where PTP = Parallel Track Path)
Region: SD=1 , DD=all ("all" has never been a problem in the past...)

I presume the Track Path change is implied by the reduction from double to single layers.
Are any DVD players troubled by the switch from "1" to "all"?



I still haven't a clue what's going on with this system. I'll start that copy-process on the other computer now, but whatever it shows it won't "explain" this system's problem. Sigh.


Thanks for your comments!



(*) Note on updating Benq F/W:
on BenQ site, "BCIC.zip 977 KB Version: BCIB 11/6/06"
got that? "BCIC.zip" is "Version: BCIB"

[jman98]

Toshiba's HD-DVD players are pretty tolerant of DVD disc types. I've got an HD-A30 model and it's the only player I've got that will correctly play DVD-R DL discs (I only have 3 of them - didn't like the format enough to buy more).

You gave us a lot of information, which is usually good, but I don't see where you listed the DVD manufacturer of your discs. I can tell you that Toshiba's HD-DVD players will NOT play PAL DVDs. Well, the old A-3 will if you used hacked firmware on it, but I think that no other model will do so. If your DVDs are PAL, that's your real problem. It could also be that your discs are just crap. Anything other than Verbatim or Taiyo Yuden is garbage in the USA these days. I have a friend who sometimes sends me DVDs of old music clips and TV shows not available anywhere on DVD and he buys only the worst DVDs available. His discs have multiple errors on them and the first thing I do when I get one is that I have to copy it immediately because his discs are bad from the moment of burn - the quality really is that bad.
If you are using some bargain brand discs, your discs may simply be bad.
All the things you are suspecting as problems, like your new PC, region, etc. likely aren't the problem. Toshiba HD-DVD players in the USA usually only play region 1 or 0 (all regions) discs, but if you are making all region discs (you should be and you think you are, so you probably are), they should play fine. But again, PAL video is a huge problem for this machine, but it gives an error message that it can't play PAL video.

[john mcmillan]

I've reloaded DVDshrink, and updated the one BenQ to F/W BCIC. I'm currently re-shrinking my two DVD's -- one on the computer that resulted in this thread, and one on a comparable computer downstairs.

I used SuperMediaStore "Value" Taiyo Yuden's http://www.supermediastore.com/taiyo-yuden-white-inkjet-hub-printable-8x-dvd-r-media-100.html -- or so I believe them to be! -- on the copied-DVD run last night and on both currently running shrinks. I can't scan the disc meta-data to verify they're TY until one of these two shrink's completes -- and even then I'm not sure you can have faith in what's written on the DVDs.

The first problem discs were Fuji-film DVD-R's, which haven't been troublesome until now: I used those as I intend to discard these two DVD's in a week anyway (and I wanted to be rid of the Fuji's!). I've never burned through so many DVD's just to create a pair of temporary copies!


... Back in 30 minutes or so...

[jman98]

Fuji discs used to be good some years ago, but now they're crap like just about all other brands sold in the USA. The so-called "Value" TY discs are cheaper because they are not considered good enough to sell as their best media. They may not burn reliably at higher speeds for example. If you care about your media I'd advise just paying what normal TY media costs and avoid the value line.

[john mcmillan]

Update:
The downstairs computer made a perfectly playable disc.
The computer with the original problem was -not- fixed by reloading DVDshrink, updating the F/W, or using TY discs.

I'm in the process of making further comparisons and tests.


The discs are "TYG02" according to their track info. As for TY using "Value": I'd be concerned if I experienced problems with them, but I've had none until now, and only on this single, new computer.


I'm about to swap in a Toshiba/Samsung SH-S183 sATA burner.


Back in a bit....

[TimA-C]

Are you burning at the same speeds as before? I know my DVD recorders (Liteons) will turn their noses up at about 40% of verbatim disks burnt at 12x and virtually all verbatim disks burnt faster than 12x. All my players and recorders work well with verbatims burnt at 8x.

Do your Shrunk disks play on the computer?

[john mcmillan]

Burning at the same speeds? How embarrassing: I don't pay any attention to that, letting the s/w select. 'Can't recall what I've seen on the screen, but I haven't forced a speed for years -- almost all the time is taken in the analyzing/encoding steps so it wouldn't matter much if the write time were halved.

The first shrunk discs played successfully in the computer (Nero ShowTime). The copied disc and the last failure weren't tested on the computer as I saw no point given that the earlier ones succeeded.


The Shrink with the replacement burner is about done: it's writing at 8x.


Meanwhile, I tossed in my old Norcent player while I was shrinking: it played ALL the troubled discs, including the one I merely copied from a failed shrink. It also plays +R DVD's, unlike the HD players. 'Guess the Norcent has to remain as it reads what the HD DVD's can't cope with. Sigh... and that was the reason I bought it years ago: it's been the most competent player amongst the many I've had.


Okay, now to try the new shrink:
Sigh... the Toshi'/Samsung DVD burner didn't fix things. The latest disk works in the Norcent but not in either HD player.

I'd add this: the Norcent seemed to more quickly start playing the DVD written on the other computer -- the only disc which has played in the HD drives. The problem DVD's all seemed to stumble and stutter in the Norcent before it began playing them.


I only see one further test: I'll remove the LG burner from the downstairs computer -- the burner which made the only HD-readable DVD -- and install it up here and burn yet another disk.

If you have more suggestions... fire away!

[jman98]

Burning at the same speeds? How embarrassing: I don't pay any attention to that,

I said in my post:
The so-called "Value" TY discs are cheaper because they are not considered good enough to sell as their best media. They may not burn reliably at higher speeds for example.

I wish you had paid attention to that.

[john mcmillan]

I paid attention to it! As stated: I've previously had no problems with these disks, and I've burned ~100. Of course, that was "then", this is now: either I've changed burners, or, as it appears to me, the two players I'm starting to use are just more finicky. Note that the LG drive downstairs whose disc played in the HD's was probably burning at 8x (as it's doing that just now up here).

When the current (LD burner) test is done I'll write one on the original BenQ's at 2x speed: that should resolve Benq vs. burning speed as a contributor to the problem.



For the moment, this computer is looking rather silly with 4 DVD drives attached!



OT: While I'm waiting for the latest test DVD to verify... I almost bought a Blu-Ray burner earlier this week. Then I looked at BR DL media prices: Good grief... amazing that they can sell any at $35 per disc! 'Spose I could justify it if I had a data center or made professional DVD's, but home use seems a ways off, at least for the likes of me.

[john mcmillan]

And da winnah is: jman98 ! (Sort of.)

The LG GH22LS30 burns perfectly readable DVD's at 8x, on either computer.
The BenQ DW1650 drive makes perfectly readable DVD's at 2.4x & 4x, but fails at 8x.
The Tosh'/Samsung SH-SS183 failed at 8x, and hasn't been tested at other speeds.
I don't think I have the stamina to test my other 3 burners!


So, I was previously writing these "Value" TY's with an 8x-competent (for these) burner, or a burner with a lower top-end that worked. And then I built the new system.


All told, as jman98 spake: it can be worth it to pay more and suffer less!

Thanks for your help!!

[RabidDog]

So burn speed was the problem? possibly coupled with borderline media, possibly coupled with over-ambitious burner firmware...
You can get very cheap Blu-ray discs if you know where to look (UK) Sorry cant say anymore

[john mcmillan]

Dang, I'd -so- like to drop by the UK to look around for those BR: 'Will make a point of it the next time I'm in need of a good pint (or three) with a steak & kidney pie. Yummy! Tah...